I have spent a few months on this forum reading the Butler thread as well as contributing. I am done exposing the unhealthy side of SoI.
I would like to share my personal story journey and I think many can relate.
My story is not for the sceptics. So I kindly ask those who have not had similar experiences, to not dismiss ours. And please do not try to debunk them.
I know I am not the only one because many of my friends shared similar stories.
I absolutely respect your views as well as your journey in that complex covert cult.
I was led to the Science of Identity foundation (offshoot of Iskcon) by greater forces that gave my heart the green light. A very strong confirmation that he the guru was genuine.
I have always been an extremely AWAKE child and very connected to the divine. While other kids played with dolls, I was interesed in much bigger questions and would always speak to “God” as though he was my friend.
At age 12 the seed of the theory of reincarnation was planted into my inquisitive mind and it became a huge piece of the puzzle that I wanted to put together. I had also always been attracted to ashram life. Leaving away from society.
I first found out about Krishna Consciousness in a Woody Allen movie: Hannah and her sisters.
[m.youtube.com]
Few years later when I was visiting Los Angeles, I heard a group of people at Venice Beach chanting the names of Krishna. I jockingly shouted “Hare Krishna”!
One guy ran toward me and said “We are not with them!” (meaning Iskcon) and handed me a flyer inviting me to the gathering. I later realized that they were Butler’s disciples and students.
At that time I had more material ambitions annd threw the invtation in the garbage right away and got on with my life.
6 years later, I was led to find an attractive meditation brochure in a health food store. The classes were supposed to be about Mantra meditation,Reincarnation, why we suffer....
So I go there and I cannot tell you my surprise when I heard the Hare Krishna Mantra again.
I went to a few classes and bought a chanting tape. Every single time I went to the class, I would get invited to the Sunday gatherings.
It took me a few months to finally go to a Sunday gathering. One of his Elite disciples and preachers of SoI happened to be there.
I was immediately hooked.
It was held at a nice house. The people were all glooming, looked happy and “normal”.
The highlight of my first evening was listening to a lecture by Butler.
It was the usual 80’s tapes. A cute looking guru, with a sense of humor who imparted some spiritual knowledge that really resonated with me.
I believe what I felt for him was the guru version of love at first sight.
I gradually gratuated from “new person” to “serious student”.
Once I entered the other side, the love bombing turned into tough love and I saw an uglier side of the group.
The fact that I dismissed the red flags: secrecy, fear, emotional abuse and anger from his disciple, is all because a strong “Divine” force kept gifting me over the top supernatural synchronicities as well as making me feel an immense transcental love for the guru. A connection I had never felt in my life without even seeing him in person.
I thought I had finally met God in person (A beautiful, playful, loving being)and his representative as well as THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
That my dream of following Jesus was now a reality. And this was the modern version of being a Jesus follower.
Jesus walked on water, Butler walks on sand!
Jesus fought demons, Butler fought homosexuals!
[m.youtube.com]
All I can say is that I do not consider myself a person who gets easily brainwashed.
I am not sure why I was led to a semi coherant kind teacher, semi narcissistic, hypochondriac germaphopbe.
This is my story and I guess that every single person has their own mystical stories.
What I shared here is a very diluted version because my experiences are too personal and way too supernatural.
But I can tell you that we do not casually land on planet Butler by accident.
We do not stay either solely via manipulation but the same mystical bread crumbs experiences keep us hostage for years.
My personal journey with the science of identity is a spiritual version of the Truman show. Events that I could never explain to others nor to myself.
My life has been much worse when I left the covert cult. Those miserable divinely orchestrated situations usually pushes people to go back after 10 years of absence.
You fooled me once....! Sorry! Never again!
I thought it was important to discuss the “mystical” synchronicities and events that pushed many of us “adults” into the SoI. We did not “lightly” accept him to be a Moses, Jesus, Mohammed...
I trusted the invisible hands that brought me to him. How could anyone doubt or resist the beautiful and supernatural phenomenons?
I share my story so that people understand that there are much greater forces at play than a cult (trauma bonding)dynamics at times.


If this subject is not appropriate for this forum. I guess it was not meant to be discussed.

What you've written is totally appropriate for this venue - and infinitely valuable.

You put your heart and soul on the line by writing this.

Thank you!

You describe a situation analogous to Simone who is a musically talented child, gifted with absolute pitch, searching for a teacher.

And misled by a musical genius of an impresario/talent scout who is also a predator.

Thank you very much Corboy. I appreciate your kind words.
I have been watching many interviews, documentaries...on the so called “Hare Krishnas”.
It is important to discuss why the process is so attractive and hard to give up at times.
I have not often seen the mystical aspects of it being discussed.
We will never truly be able to figure out how this reality functions. Who are the forces behind it...
All I know is that the bliss comes at a very high price in those cultich groups.
Many fall into the supernatural trap like I did.
It does not matter how we fell into the hole. We should be able to get out of the hole.
I say that no amount of divine love, supernatural events... is worth walking on eggshells.

My hunch is that the group of sensitive persons gathered by the guru may play an important role in generating potent experiences.

When people are sensitive and possess a shared goal, this may create an incalculably powerful shared consciousness. They talk about this happening at rock concerts.

Part of the virus importance is how he or she can gather this type of community together for much longer periods than a concert.

Actually my most mind blowing mystical experiences have always been outside of the group.
What keeps people around is the potency of the mantras and the deities.
They depend on him because they believe he is a conduit (middle man).
In Krishna consciousnes there is what people refer to as the honey moon phase.
At the beginning stage, the deity reveals himself in a very obvious way to attract the spirit souls. This is usually what gets many hooked.
Once you are hooked, then you become dependent upon guru because he is supposedly the MOST confidential servant of God.
The gurus ard NOTHING without the mantras and the powerful deities.
I have never had experiences with a genuine teacher of the Vedas.
All I can say is that I felt like a kid who had to raise their hands to ask permission to go to the washroom.
Noone can reach their full potential in that kind of big brother scenario.
The experineces are not collective either. Rather individual.
If the process was not so potent, the gurus could not manipulate participants so easily.

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We will never truly be able to figure out how this reality functions. Who are the forces behind it...

Well, here comes facet with the boring answer. You will find the answers in physics.

Before I start, you have the right to your beliefs, we are all different in our views, experiences, etc and this is ok.

For me, I have the right to remain skeptical :D.

Currently, physics knows that something called fast radio burst is generated from various points in space, the bursts a very highly concentrated intense light running right across the spectrum. They interact swiftly with dark matter, which is intensely lacking in light, so very little light - not void, as this is impossible.

Bursts like this and the inevitable interaction with the dark matter are the forces of creation, what people might say is “god”, because the dark matter of the universe is then colliding with their intense light, collecting it, filling up, contributing to the soup that is our universe.. hence it’s persistent expansion.

I am not a professional physicist, this is my own personal research. Hobby person with a cup of tea is more fitting. Potential for biscuits.

I truly respect the beliefs of all, although when there are manipulations and the beliefs are not serving the person involved, and (increasingly) large groups of people / society, something should always be said.

We believe in a god, and forget that (from the best of our knowledge) we are standing upon a big planet.

The planet does not choose to wear sunglasses, to open an ashram, or to save one person over another when it comes to disasters, one might well be standing in a sweet spot and choose to say it was a divine intervention, that they are special, when really it was just a fluke.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2021 02:09AM by facet.

Facet I respect your opinions.
My experiences cannot be explained by physics.
I keep the very intense and supernatural ones to myself. They are private.
I am not one who lightly believes everything and I myself always look for things that do not make sense.
Things that people believe blindly...
However personal experiences are a different story.
We are just too different in our views. I cannot turn you into a believer and you cannot turn me into a skeptic when it comes to the speenatural.
But as you said it, we should just respect our different views.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually my most mind blowing mystical experiences
> have always been outside of the group.
> What keeps people around is the potency of the
> mantras and the deities.

All things that are associated with the Supreme Lord, which are in this material world, have forms that are measurable and describable in material terms, but they are of a spiritual substance (and are not to be considered material in nature).

Truth wins: I have lost my faith in ISKCON almost entirely, but I too still believe in these precepts (that I described above). I still chant every day, and I refrain from meat-eating, but I no longer subscribe to the ISKCON hive mentality. And it's too bad; in my opinion, Prabhupada's mission was better than that. But what do I know?

Whirlwind, I have grown much more in every way being away from the group.
I could neve go back to such settings and dealing with people all the time.
It takes a very harmonious and loving community in order to nurture me.
I certainly did not find this in my Iskcon oofshoot community.
It was full o& fear and drama.
At the end of the day, the holy names are the essence of the process.
And you are still in your path.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Facet I respect your opinions.
> My experiences cannot be explained by physics.
> I keep the very intense and supernatural ones to
> myself. They are private.
> I am not one who lightly believes everything and I
> myself always look for things that do not make
> sense.
> Things that people believe blindly...
> However personal experiences are a different
> story.
> We are just too different in our views. I cannot
> turn you into a believer and you cannot turn me
> into a skeptic when it comes to the speenatural.
> But as you said it, we should just respect our
> different views.

Thank you :-)

That is exactly how it should be - nobody has the right to define you, except you.

Krisna Consciousness adherents (edit: not all of them, but majority) target vulnerable people. They are manipulators. They follow the top as if it is normal duty, but it isn’t. There is no consolation for this horrible reality, however it must be remembered that there can be no prestige in a following that was largely built upon manipulation, and relies heavily on manipulation to retain people too.

It is a sad little world for any person who has to do that, at least they know the reality while the current gathering of people do not. Blind in faith.

That is a dreadful pain. Numbed only by unhealthy practice.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2021 09:42PM by facet.