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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: November 28, 2020 12:31AM

The temple president of Dallas has been known to teach that he is the spiritual father of everyone in the Dallas Hare Krsna "community", and that he is Kalachandji's favorite devotee. I am not alone, not by any means, when I say that I think him to be a narcissistic madman and that the time for him to resign as temple president, has come. Kalachandji's favorite devotee, my foot.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: November 29, 2020 05:47AM

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This morning I have a challenge for any and all
> persons who may be reading this: please find and
> show us a single recorded instance of Prabhupada
> having said or written either "Krishna has
> appeared as ISKCON" or "ISKCON is my body" (or
> even anything like that). I've researched this
> quite extensively, and I cannot find anything like
> that anywhere. Therefore, I reject that as a bona
> fide "Prabhupada said" quote, and regard it as
> apocrypha. But, I am open to the idea that I
> could be mistaken and that such a quote exists,
> but that I just did not find it. So please: if
> anybody reading this can find such a quote, then
> please show me. If I were a gambler, then I'd bet
> that you cannot do it.
>
> If it's so critical to believe that ISKCON is
> Prabhupada's body, then why did Prabhupada not
> write that down?

>
> "I have instructed everything in my books."
> --SPL (VI 1987) Dina Dayala das 25/02/76


This is a very important point, that I want to now make. Here it is: Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect to the material world and all that is in it, and he never claimed to be. Prabhupada did not know everything about everything, and all that he ever wrote or uttered does not form the underpinning for or everything that I, as his initiated spiritual grandchild, personally believe (especially with respect to the material world and all that is in it). For example, I personally believe that human beings really did travel to this celestial body we call "the moon" in July of 1969. My guru does, too. So that's simply an inaccurate stereotype, the one about how Hare Krsnas do not believe that the moon landings were real. The Seventies are over, the kids today do not know who the hell George Harrison is, and we're NOT a bunch of temple-dwelling fanatics.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2020 05:50AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: November 29, 2020 09:12AM

In writing these things, I feel like Winston Smith must have felt in the fictional book. Like him, I am risking my physical safety in writing any of this.

To the future or to the past, to a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone -- to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: From the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink -- greetings!

--George Orwell, 1984 (Chapter 2)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2020 09:16AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: November 29, 2020 09:35AM

This is a very important point, that I want to now make. Here it is: Prabhupada was not omniscient with respect to the material world and all that is in it, and he never claimed to be. Prabhupada did not know everything about everything, and all that he ever wrote or uttered does not form the underpinning for or everything that I, as his initiated spiritual grandchild, personally believe (especially with respect to the material world and all that is in it). For example, I personally believe that human beings really did travel to this celestial body we call "the moon" in July of 1969. My guru does, too. So that's simply an inaccurate stereotype, the one about how Hare Krsnas do not believe that the moon landings were real. The Seventies are over, the kids today do not know who the hell George Harrison is, and we're NOT a bunch of temple-dwelling fanatics.


PS: in other words, Prabhupada was an extraordinary human being, but he was still a human being. I utterly reject any sort of deification of him (like with the "ISKCON is Prabhupada's body" myth). Guru puja is another matter, but I reject the godman version of Prabhupada that some devotees seem to like to like to promote.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2020 09:50AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: November 30, 2020 07:48AM

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This morning I have a challenge for any and all
> persons who may be reading this: please find and
> show us a single recorded instance of Prabhupada
> having said or written either "Krishna has
> appeared as ISKCON" or "ISKCON is my body" (or
> even anything like that). I've researched this
> quite extensively, and I cannot find anything like
> that anywhere. Therefore, I reject that as a bona
> fide "Prabhupada said" quote, and regard it as
> apocrypha. But, I am open to the idea that I
> could be mistaken and that such a quote exists,
> but that I just did not find it. So please: if
> anybody reading this can find such a quote, then
> please show me. If I were a gambler, then I'd bet
> that you cannot do it.
>
> If it's so critical to believe that ISKCON is
> Prabhupada's body, then why did Prabhupada not
> write that down?

>
> "I have instructed everything in my books."
> --SPL (VI 1987) Dina Dayala das 25/02/76


The is a line of reasoning that a lot of ISKCON devotees subscribe to which says: "ISKCON is Prabhupada's mystical body and as such, it is perfect. Therefore, if I think that anything is wrong in ISKCON, or that anything with respect to ISKCON needs fixing, then what REALLY need fixing is myself and my mentality, since ISKCON is above criticism." In other words, a line of reasoning is created in which criticism of ISKCON (as an institution, whether broadly or at the local level) is conflated with criticism of Prabhupada and his mission. Therefore, a system is created in which criticism of ISKCON or its leadership, is turned into a sin.

I reject this type of reasoning, for reasons I have explained before (that is, that Prabhupada never seems to have said or written such a thing, about himself). However, maybe I am mistaken and he did write or say such a thing, but I'm just not aware of it yet. If that's the case, and ISKCON is indeed Prabhupada's mystical body, then my response to that assertion is this: bodies get sick sometimes, and need remedying. ISKCON was sick in the 1980s, for example, and in 1989 comprehensive guru reform began to remedy what was ailing the organization. So it's happened before, where ISKCON had to begin to reform itself when "the body" got sick. However, I admit that the ISKCON fanatics would maintain that everything was great all along, and was just as should have been. I myself am not an ISKCON fanatic, so I do not have that problem.

Now we need reform in Dallas, since the "leadership" here is abusive as hell. I am quite certain that Prabhupada would not be OK with kicking an old woman out of her residence, in the middle of a pandemic, with two days' notice. That is ILLEGAL. In sum, I am calling for the TP and the entire temple leadership council to be replaced. They are too used to getting away with so much abuse, for so long, like a bunch of capos.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2020 08:16AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: December 01, 2020 07:39AM

There is a line of reasoning that a lot of ISKCON devotees subscribe to which says: "ISKCON is Prabhupada's mystical body and as such, it is perfect. Therefore, if I think that anything is wrong in ISKCON, or that anything with respect to ISKCON needs fixing, then what REALLY need fixing is myself and my mentality, since ISKCON is above criticism." In other words, a line of reasoning is created in which criticism of ISKCON (as an institution, whether broadly or at the local level) is conflated with criticism of Prabhupada and his mission. Therefore, a system is created in which criticism of ISKCON or its leadership, is turned into a sin.

You are all my limbs of my body. Unless you cooperate, my life will be useless. The senses and life are correlative. Without life the senses cannot act and without sense, life is inactive.

--Prabhupada, Letter to Brahmananda -- Montreal 17 July, 1968


This quote is the main one that has been used to substantiate the idea "ISKCON is Prabhupada's body". However, I am not buying it, and here is why: everything in Vaisnava philosophy is about instruction given by the guru according to time, place, and circumstance. So I see this as Prabhupada writing to this person, at this time, under those circumstances. If I am not mistaken, at the time this was written (summer of 1968) these were only three ISKCON temples open in the world (New York, San Francisco, and Montreal) and the nascent Hare Krishna movement was just beginning to take off, so to speak. The Beatles were not yet involved, at this point. So Prabhupada is telling Brahmananda and his small group of fledgling and enthusiastic disciples/missionaries to cooperate with one another, in order to spread his mission all over the world. To interpret this in such a way as to try to extrapolate from it the meaning "ISKCON is Prabhupada's body" requires quite a leap of logic. So again, I'm not buying it, and I do not personally believe that ISKCON is Prabhupada's mystical body just because the GBC said so. What's more, I do not believe that I am committing a sin, or the "mad elephant offense", for calling the "leadership" of ISKCON of Dallas abusive and I also don't feel a bit of guilt in calling for the TP and management council to all step down. I think that if Prabhupada could see how they treat devotees, then he'd tell them all that they ought to be ashamed of themselves. TKG would, too, I think.

And again: If it's so critical to believe that ISKCON is Prabhupada's body, then why did Prabhupada not write that down, state it explicitly?

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2020 08:02AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: December 03, 2020 09:40AM

There is a belief common to a lot of ISKCON devotees which says that a fallen devotee (such as myself) cannot have transcendental knowledge, so therefore they must be covered by nescience. As such, everything such a person says is nonsense; such persons should just shut up and not criticize. On the other hand, a person who strictly follows the four regulative principles and who chants sixty-four rounds per say can also be covered by nescience. Therefore, it is my opinion that a fallen devotee can detect corruption and hypocrisy more clearly than a pukka temple president and his management council.

So I do not need to have read every single one of Prabhupada's books, gone to the morning program every morning for years on end, chanted sixty-four rounds a day, and followed the four regs to a T to be able to see that the way the TP and temple council in Dallas run things, is corrupt and abusive toward the devotees. I don't need to be in saffron to know that kicking an old lady out of her place of residence, in the middle of a pandemic and with two days' notice, is wrong in every way, immoral and illegal. This is just one example, out of many, of how the management of ISKCON in Dallas is abusive.

"There is a Bengali saying that a jackal is king in a small forest. The story is that a jackal became king in the forest by fooling the other animals for some time, but he remained always a jackal and his ruse was at last exposed"

--Prabhupada, letter to Rupanuga, 70-11-13




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2020 09:55AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: December 04, 2020 08:21AM

There are a whole lot of devotees out there who believe in Prabhupada and his mission, who chant God's Names and refrain from eating meat or eggs, but who do not believe in the aims and goals of the institution known as ISKCON, and who regard the mainstream organization as a destructive cult. These are the Hare Krsna equivalent of public $cientologists, and I'd say that the "public devotees" outnumber the "institutional devotees" at least ten to one. Today, most North American ISKCON temples are ISKCON temples in name only; what they REALLY are, are Hindu temples. The Hare Krsnas are now openly referring to themselves as Hindus; they are openly sectarian in their presentation. The old days are long over, the kids today do not know who the hell George Harrison is, and most of us, the vast majority of us no longer live in temples.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2020 08:21AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: December 06, 2020 08:31AM

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somebody who is on the Dallas temple council (I
> will not say who), once told me that he believes
> that Lord Brahma administers the affairs of this
> material world, through the disciples of Tamal
> Krishna Goswami. This is his mentality, and this
> is the mentality he operates under. That is
> simply insane, that idea.

This bit is on the esoteric side, and most readers who are not familiar with Hare Krsna philosophy will not understand its meaning. Basically, this is a fancy way of saying that the disciples of Tamal Krsna Goswami who run the Dallas temple consider themselves to be special and unique, and not to be held to the same standards of morality as regular, rank-and-file, peon devotees like me. They're like feudal lords who are running a fiefdom, these people, like gangsters in an Italian neighborhood in the old days.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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Re: ISKCON of Dallas/Dallas Hare Krsnas
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: December 06, 2020 09:04AM

PS: In Dallas, the temple president is temple president in name only: the REAL temple president is the older Chinese lady who runs the restaurant. She's the one who's holding all the strings, on a day to day basis. She's "the man behind the curtain", so to speak.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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