The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: May 15, 2003 03:48AM
All through the ages, Xians tried to convert Jews. VERY few Jews converted.
Xian missionaries have used the same "proof texts" over and over again for almost 2K years. Few Jews were ever impressed.
All of those proofs have been subjected to analysis and they don't hold up.
My experience with it has been that as soon as I'm through arguing with one missionary, another appears a little while later.
It's been going on forever. I don't see the point in debating a missionary on a one on one basis. I'd really like to get my message out en masse.
I was in several churches although I was actually only a member of Hickman's but I saw a number of different denominations. They all sounded good but the fact is that a Jew who feels comfortable in a church in my opinion isn't being honest. And I know because I was in a church and I wasn't really comfortable with it.
Xian missionaries have used the same "proof texts" over and over again for almost 2K years. Few Jews were ever impressed.
All of those proofs have been subjected to analysis and they don't hold up.
My experience with it has been that as soon as I'm through arguing with one missionary, another appears a little while later.
It's been going on forever. I don't see the point in debating a missionary on a one on one basis. I'd really like to get my message out en masse.
I was in several churches although I was actually only a member of Hickman's but I saw a number of different denominations. They all sounded good but the fact is that a Jew who feels comfortable in a church in my opinion isn't being honest. And I know because I was in a church and I wasn't really comfortable with it.
The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
letGodbetrue
()
Date: May 15, 2003 06:23AM
The message you are trying to get out appears to be very much based on your own opinions and experiences. You're welcome to have your own opinion, I just hope that you can come up with something worth discussing in this new thread.
On the other hand, most of your observations are actually predicted in the NT. Because the Jewish people refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah, it allowed the Gentiles to partake of the gift of God. So true, most Jews have rejected Christ, just as you say.
On the other hand, most of your observations are actually predicted in the NT. Because the Jewish people refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah, it allowed the Gentiles to partake of the gift of God. So true, most Jews have rejected Christ, just as you say.
The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: May 15, 2003 09:13PM
Quote
Originally posted by letGodbetrue
The message you are trying to get out appears to be very much based on your own opinions and experiences. You're welcome to have your own opinion, I just hope that you can come up with something worth discussing in this new thread.
(RMG's reply: My reason for commenting on this site are mostly to clue people in to the problems I had with certain movements I got involved with that turned sour. But I do have opinions on religion in general and I offer them here. But I'm not saying that only I know what God is all about or that you have to worship him my way. But I am strongly opinionated against the Judeo-Xian traditions. I believe they're done the human race a lot of harm.)
On the other hand, most of your observations are actually predicted in the NT. Because the Jewish people refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah, it allowed the Gentiles to partake of the gift of God. So true, most Jews have rejected Christ, just as you say.
(RMG's reply:The truth is that the Jews have their own leaders, their own interperatations of the Torah and their own way of looking at life. Jesus' teachings simply are superfluous to most Jews. And it's a gift we can live without.)
The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
letGodbetrue
()
Date: May 17, 2003 03:46AM
Well, I certainly don't agree that Judeo-Christian beliefs and traditions have hurt the human race. In fact, the most backward and struggling cultures on earth are those who have rejected God.
I do agree that 'traditions' can and do get people into trouble. I think there has to be a standard that everything else is measured against. I don't agree with the theories concerning 'relativism'.
Again, I don't think most conservative, orthodox Jewish believers would appreciate your defense of their faith. I think they recognize that the relationship they had/have with God was/is a gift, and the promises that God has made to them concerning their future, all gifts. As Job said, Who am I that God should be mindful of me?
I do agree that 'traditions' can and do get people into trouble. I think there has to be a standard that everything else is measured against. I don't agree with the theories concerning 'relativism'.
Again, I don't think most conservative, orthodox Jewish believers would appreciate your defense of their faith. I think they recognize that the relationship they had/have with God was/is a gift, and the promises that God has made to them concerning their future, all gifts. As Job said, Who am I that God should be mindful of me?
The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: May 18, 2003 12:41AM
Quote
Originally posted by letGodbetrue
Well, I certainly don't agree that Judeo-Christian beliefs and traditions have hurt the human race. In fact, the most backward and struggling cultures on earth are those who have rejected God.
(RMG's reply: You equate those who reject Judeo Xianity with "those who reject God". I don't. Also, during the Crusades 150 million people died due to these "enlightened" religions).
I do agree that 'traditions' can and do get people into trouble. I think there has to be a standard that everything else is measured against. I don't agree with the theories concerning 'relativism'.
Again, I don't think most conservative, orthodox Jewish believers would appreciate your defense of their faith.
(RMG's reply: I grew up in the Conservative movement and found them to be reasonable compared to the orthodox. I'm not defending them though. I find the Bible to be a work of myth and fiction and want to move on from it.)
I think they recognize that the relationship they had/have with God was/is a gift, and the promises that God has made to them concerning their future, all gifts. As Job said, Who am I that God should be mindful of me?
9RMG's reply:The relationship they have with God is the result of the faith of their father's as it came down through the ages. I forget exactly how it's put in the Jewish liturgy, but that's the case. Your frame of reference is very Xian. You realy don't know how Jews think from any of the major branches).
The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
greenberean
()
Date: June 11, 2003 09:01PM
9RMG's reply:The relationship they have with God is the result of the faith of their father's as it came down through the ages.Quote
Originally posted by richardmgreen
How can one person's personal relationship with God be transmitted to another? Aren't we all free to chose whoever we serve?
The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: June 11, 2003 10:50PM
Most people I've met just go to the religious organization theyQuote
Originally posted by greenberean
9RMG's reply:The relationship they have with God is the result of the faith of their father's as it came down through the ages.
How can one person's personal relationship with God be transmitted to another? Aren't we all free to chose whoever we serve?
were brought up with. Some people move elsewhere but
I don't think the Episcopalians are going to convert to Lutheranism en masse.
Most people have a path that was blazed by their ancestors and they follow it at least nominally. Many Xians I've met are Xian in name only but they identify with the church of their youth.
The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
greenberean
()
Date: June 12, 2003 12:13AM
Quote
Originally posted by richardmgreen
Many Xians I've met are Xian in name only but they identify with the church of their youth.
Yeah, I pretty much agree, especially from an outside perspective. As a matter of popular opinion, from the outside, Judas was a better representative of God than Peter.
I was wondering if you were saying that since Daddy was a southern baptist preacher, then Junior is pretty much a shoe-in for a seat in heaven, or something
The problem with missionaries in general
Posted by:
richardmgreen
()
Date: June 12, 2003 06:37AM
Quote
Originally posted by greenberean
Yeah, I pretty much agree, especially from an outside perspective. As a matter of popular opinion, from the outside, Judas was a better representative of God than Peter.
I was wondering if you were saying that since Daddy was a southern baptist preacher, then Junior is pretty much a shoe-in for a seat in heaven, or something
I believe that people need to examine what they bellieve in and not just take things for granted. But coming from a good home is certainly better than coming from a bad one.
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