That makes a lot of sense to me, Earthquake. We haven't been precise enough in this discussion about different kinds of meditation and the corresponding difference in effects, and the same goes for the different contextual frameworks in which meditation is practiced.

I think that a lack of initiative in improving one's conditions isn't necessarily causally linked to the practice of meditation or prayer but to the belief that you should stay in your lane, do your duty, and then you will be rewarded in the afterlife. This belief is of course part of some of the frameworks surrounding meditation and prayer.

BTW, another aspect of belief systems that may be relevant to this discussion is the belief that there exists a cycle of reincarnation and the ideal outcome is to be liberated from this cycle, i.e. to be liberated from embodiment. I can imagine that this negative view of material reality can lead to a decrease in initiative to improve material or even societal conditions.

zizlz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can
> imagine that this negative view of material
> reality can lead to a decrease in initiative to
> improve material or even societal conditions.

That was certainly the nineteenth-century Western view of the East. Several authors, learning about Indian spirituality for the first time, characterized it as passive and pessimistic. In our modern politically correct climate, it's no longer acceptable for Westerners to make such assertions. They would be shouted down amid accusations of "orientalism". There are, though, plenty of Indian writers who criticize their own culture on the same grounds!

Quote
shamrock
There are, though, plenty of Indian writers who criticize their own culture on the same grounds!

Do you know if any of those writings are available in English?

I was thinking of Sudhir Kakar, The Inner World, and V. S. Naipaul, An Area of Darkness.

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vox News
>
> Are We Morally Obligated to Meditate?
>
> [www.vox.com]
>
> Friends, we need to regard meditation as we do any
> medication that is powerful enough to have an
> effective greater than can be accounted for by
> placebo effect, w results replicated via double
> blind testing by different researcher in a variety
> of settings.
>
> The drift of the Vox article is that meditation
> brings desirable effects by reducing limbic system
> reactivity to perceived threats.
>
> However, due to the largely positive media
> coverage meditation receives, Corboy urges us to
> regard mediation as any other soothing drug.
>
> * Undesirable side effects
>
> * Some threats are real and if we don't react
> vigorously via dismay, disgust, fight or flight,
> we are unable to defend ourselves and others from
> abuse/exploitation.
>
> *These days lots of companies recommend meditation
> to employees to help them cope w stress.
>
> Corboy suggests why not make the workplace less
> stressful?
>
> But...that costs lots a money. So much cheaper to
> teach meditation to "help" your employees adjust.
>
>
> Tranquilizers do ease suffering. In the wring
> hands, tranquilizers are used to dope us.
> Tranquilizers require oversight.
>
> Food for thought
>
> * There's lots if money in meditation. It is now
> commodified.
>
> *What kinds of people are involved in the
> Meditation Industry?
>
> * The United States of America was created by
> malcontented people who were ignorant of
> meditation.
>
> The Revolutions of 1789 in France and 1688 in
> England were created by persons ignorant of
> mediation and angered by unfair salt tax
> burdens(France) and intrusive policies of a king
> who was a religious bigot (England)
>
> France, America and England and Germany, all
> cultures based on non Asian religions were
> discontented enough w pain and social misery to
> want to reduce them, creating clean water supplies
> and public health.
>
> Through non caste cultures, mechanics and scholars
> befriended each other and in this Western context
> printing developed, launching the first
> information revolution making it possible to
> correct errors, communicate findings, and led to
> modern science.
>
> People who felt threatened by premature death,
> workplace hazards, who wanted a fair days wage for
> a fair days work, created disaster relief,
> workplace safety laws and regulatory agencies.
>
> And cults use meditation to blunt our awareness.

Bump.

The information is valid I take my hat off to it.

Quote
shamrock
I was thinking of Sudhir Kakar, The Inner World, and V. S. Naipaul, An Area of Darkness.

Thanks, Shamrock! I saw the Naipaul book is banned in India; that makes me extra interested in reading it!