all a long, whenever you find anything useful, such as that reddit post, copy it and post it here along with the URL.
Over the years, we've done a lot on the CEI message board.

Its like the manuscripts preserved by medieval scribes, who copied them in a race against destruction by silverfish, bookworms and rot.

Today we fight vested interests which seek to make information unfindable.

That's a great idea, It's also before for so called gurus who change their websites around.

@allalong it sounds like you didn't have a good experience especially as the breathing class sounded quite stressful!

I think one of the issues is that rather than yoga having changed generally the full background of yoga and all aspects haven't been taught in the West. In India Pranayama for instance is well known and probably practiced more frequently than the asanas (physical postures). In India yoga is a spiritual practice. In the west we tend to be focused very much on the physical and yoga has become an 'exercise routine' rather than a spiritual practice. The key thing is it should be about relaxation and breath,it is a practice to bring the mind, body and spirit together.

It is regulated in the sense that anyone who wants to teach needs to have done at least a 200hrs teaching course. I have just completed one in India which was fantastic and we were taught all aspects of yoga but I wouldn't feel confident to teach the more advanced asanas or pranayama until I have had more practice and done more training. At the end of the day we are dealing with people's minds and bodies and must be very careful not to cause any injuries.

I think one of the key things is that the teacher is aware of the different levels in the class. If someone has practiced Pranayama for some time they have less chance of getting dizzy or feeling any adverse effects. I agree completely that the teacher should be clear on what will be covered in the class/workshop but it sounds like generally some advanced breathing techniques have been perhaps been covered too early or not explained properly.

For myself I know after doing Pranayama exercises I feel more relaxed I can breath much easier and I feel I have more energy. There are some things that science can't explain or hasn't tested and there have been lots of yogis and students who have felt the benefits. I am sure if they did scientific tests on people who had been practicing Pranayama for some time they would find that people can hold their breath for longer and have more efficient respiratory systems as well as suffering less from colds and respiratory diseases as it undoubtedly does help to clear out any toxins.

Yoga philosophy and the overall yoga system has been around for 1,000s of years and there is a wealth of information out there on the benefits. I think given we have now adopted this in the west we should respect and honour where it has come from and look at all aspects of it while making sure we don't push anyone including ourselves down a path that feels uncomfortable.

Holy shit I am not alone. Thanks for this post.

I was in a cult-like group. It was advertised as a yoga class. The entire group was very cultish. They made you feel that anyone who is not a part of this group is wrong and you HAVE to recruit them otherwise just don't be around that person. Its where the leader/guru (which everyone praised and thought was brilliant, but probably was just a charismatic psychopath) had us to physically strenuous 'exercises', breathing 'exercises' etc. Most of which were supposed to spiritually transform us, and make us more compassionate and accepting of everyone. Well, not everyone is nice. There are abusers who take advantage of vulnerable and open minded people who don't know what they are getting into. It was the perfect environment for us victims to get brainwashed because we did exercises which made us in a trance like, susceptible and vulnerable/triggered state. And we all trusted the leader, because she was extraordinarily charming and seemed to be brilliant like no other. They instructed that everyone was to trust each other, and we were told to get rid of our ego which is "evil" and become 'one' in the exercises. Most likely, these exercises induced some kind of vulnerable state, trance state or maybe caused something like vertigo...idk I don't fully understand it. Whatever it did it felt very convincing and transformative. But it wasn't. The feeling was temporary and dangerous because in order to get there, we had to put ourselves in emotionally and physically harmful situations, often re-victimizing us. I wouldn't be surprised if it caused serotonin syndrome or such. Sometimes I felt very weak, agitated and often high, like I was on heroin. Then you get addicted to the group activities.

I also went to a workshop - it was supposed to be the 'ultimate' experience which I fully believed would completely transform my life, my being, everything (1000s of dollars) where we were exposed to full days of these exercises that were similar to hot yoga, as well as 'meditations' that put us into a suggestible state, which re-traumatized us because we were supposed to open up our most painful wounds, to 'heal' them and transform. We believed in the leader so thoroughly, so that however painful it was, or however physically difficult it was, we were encouraged to go into it deeper. We were told that by doing this, we would rid ourselves of our ego, which was 'evil' and become one with the universe. Apparently there are lots of sick fucks who endorse these teachings around the world.

Ok I know you think this sounds like who is that stupid to join this group. Nobody chooses to join a cult. They are groomed and sucked into it gradually, and they are not aware they are in a cult. They - or at least, I - believed they were doing the right thing, and that this was an answer to all the problems of the world. There was much more sick shit in this cult like group but I don't have the stomach to talk about that right now.

These 'transcendental' meditation - yoga exercises are more common I guess. Its really sick. They are definitely not what they seem when you are in the moment. You don't realize you are being manipulated and abused.

They prey on vulnerable, compassionate and previously victimized people.

In the group, you are taught that everyone is good, victim blaming, and to trust everyone (basically being trained to not listen to your gut). I found similarity in what the victims of NVXIM cult claimed they experienced.

@allalong exactly. These self-proclaimed gurus never admit the potential harms of the exercises. They also often advise against taking medication, going to counseling, etc.I just posted a reply to this thread too. They are very dangerous.

Rose Mitchell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @allalong it sounds like you didn't have a good
> experience especially as the breathing class
> sounded quite stressful!

"Stressful" isn't the word I would use for it, and frankly it sounds invalidating.
>
> I think one of the issues is that rather than yoga
> having changed generally the full background of
> yoga and all aspects haven't been taught in the
> West.
What if someone is just interested in learning yoga for relaxation without all the religious/spiritual aspects?

In India Pranayama for instance is well
> known and probably practiced more frequently than
> the asanas (physical postures). In India yoga is a
> spiritual practice. In the west we tend to be
> focused very much on the physical and yoga has
> become an 'exercise routine' rather than a
> spiritual practice. The key thing is it should be
> about relaxation and breath,it is a practice to
> bring the mind, body and spirit together.

Is holotropic breathwork being done in India? Where anyone who has never done any sort of pranayama would be introduced to a workshop such as this one I attended?


> It is regulated in the sense that anyone who wants
> to teach needs to have done at least a 200hrs
> teaching course. I have just completed one in
> India which was fantastic and we were taught all
> aspects of yoga but I wouldn't feel confident to
> teach the more advanced asanas or pranayama until
> I have had more practice and done more training.


To become a teacher of education in the US, one has to complete a four year degree plus a master's. That's five full years, 7 days a week. To become a medical doctor--a teacher in a sense of how to heal the body--think of the number of hours that takes.

> At the end of the day we are dealing with people's
> minds and bodies and must be very careful not to
> cause any injuries.

Yes exactly and it's good to hear that from a yoga teacher.

>
> I think one of the key things is that the teacher
> is aware of the different levels in the class. If
> someone has practiced Pranayama for some time they
> have less chance of getting dizzy or feeling any
> adverse effects. I agree completely that the
> teacher should be clear on what will be covered in
> the class/workshop but it sounds like generally
> some advanced breathing techniques have been
> perhaps been covered too early or not explained
> properly.

For this workshop, anyone could take it. She did not ask what levels any of us were at, or if we ever took yoga before or did any pranayama. I had the same experience when I took Kundalini yoga. The instructor didn't ask any of these questions nor tell us about any risks or what signs to look out for that we're not tolerating it well.

> For myself I know after doing Pranayama exercises
> I feel more relaxed I can breath much easier and I
> feel I have more energy.

You likely have been taught correctly, then.

> Yoga philosophy and the overall yoga system has
> been around for 1,000s of years and there is a
> wealth of information out there on the benefits. I
> think given we have now adopted this in the west
> we should respect and honour where it has come
> from and look at all aspects of it while making
> sure we don't push anyone including ourselves down
> a path that feels uncomfortable.

I respect it as part of the Hindu religion but not as part of people thinking they can run a workshop for something they know extremely little about. I will try to find the website for where this person was taught--not India.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2020 01:15AM by allalong.

Rose Mitchell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @allalong it sounds like you didn't have a good
> experience especially as the breathing class
> sounded quite stressful!

"Stressful" isn't the word I would use for it, and frankly it sounds invalidating.
>
> I think one of the issues is that rather than yoga
> having changed generally the full background of
> yoga and all aspects haven't been taught in the
> West.
What if someone is just interested in learning yoga for relaxation without all the religious/spiritual aspects?

In India Pranayama for instance is well
> known and probably practiced more frequently than
> the asanas (physical postures). In India yoga is a
> spiritual practice. In the west we tend to be
> focused very much on the physical and yoga has
> become an 'exercise routine' rather than a
> spiritual practice. The key thing is it should be
> about relaxation and breath,it is a practice to
> bring the mind, body and spirit together.

Is holotropic breathwork being done in India? Where anyone who has never done any sort of pranayama would be introduced to a workshop such as this one I attended?


> It is regulated in the sense that anyone who wants
> to teach needs to have done at least a 200hrs
> teaching course. I have just completed one in
> India which was fantastic and we were taught all
> aspects of yoga but I wouldn't feel confident to
> teach the more advanced asanas or pranayama until
> I have had more practice and done more training.


To become a teacher of education in the US, one has to complete a four year degree plus a master's. That's five full years, 7 days a week. To become a medical doctor--a teacher in a sense of how to heal the body--think of the number of hours that takes.

> At the end of the day we are dealing with people's
> minds and bodies and must be very careful not to
> cause any injuries.

That is correct and I'm glad at least there is one yoga instructor out there who sees that.

>
> I think one of the key things is that the teacher
> is aware of the different levels in the class. If
> someone has practiced Pranayama for some time they
> have less chance of getting dizzy or feeling any
> adverse effects. I agree completely that the
> teacher should be clear on what will be covered in
> the class/workshop but it sounds like generally
> some advanced breathing techniques have been
> perhaps been covered too early or not explained
> properly.

For this workshop, anyone could take it. She did not ask what levels any of us were at, or if we ever took yoga before or did any pranayama. I had the same experience when I took Kundalini yoga. The instructor didn't ask any of these questions nor tell us about any risks or what signs to look out for that we're not tolerating it well.

> For myself I know after doing Pranayama exercises
> I feel more relaxed I can breath much easier and I
> feel I have more energy.

You likely have been taught correctly, then.

> Yoga philosophy and the overall yoga system has
> been around for 1,000s of years and there is a
> wealth of information out there on the benefits. I
> think given we have now adopted this in the west
> we should respect and honour where it has come
> from and look at all aspects of it while making
> sure we don't push anyone including ourselves down
> a path that feels uncomfortable.

I respect it as part of the Hindu religion but not as part of people thinking they can run a workshop for something they know nothing about. Yoga studios should be more careful with who they're bringing into their studios to run workshops that are separate from teaching yoga classes.

sashah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @allalong exactly. These self-proclaimed gurus
> never admit the potential harms of the exercises.
> They also often advise against taking medication,
> going to counseling, etc.I just posted a reply to
> this thread too. They are very dangerous.


How do they get away with it? It's so irresponsible. I read your reply and will post back shortly.

Hello allalong, hello everyone,

This is an interesting article about chakras that I stumbled across in my own researches, it gives a nice grounded look into the subject.

[upliftconnect.com]

facet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello allalong, hello everyone,
>
> This is an interesting article about chakras that
> I stumbled across in my own researches, it gives a
> nice grounded look into the subject.
>
> [upliftconnect.com]


Thank you, this was an interesting read. I did not mean to disrespect the teachings of chakras. My point was more about people with very little training or experience who are teaching people about chakras.