Iskcon's premise is that our consciousness has nothing to do with the brain, and instead our awareness is not dependent on our senses but is located in a "spark" inside of us. They believe that this spark was in an original body in a spiritual world with no death and other problems. We "fell down" in our original sin, into regular or "material" bodies due to our attempt to try and take the place of God, or to compete with God. The example is with the story of the Gopis, who got all conceited due to being friends with God, so as a result of their pride, God left them alone and then they started re-enacting the fun they had with God with some of them playing the role of God.....

Iskcon is one of the few groups that actually promotes and physically does exactly what they believe that our original sin was. They ask people to practice worshiping God by actually worshiping them. For what? Because they are some kind of a spiritual vedic teacher? Because they twisted the vedas and mistranslated in order to include celibacy as a principle when it clearly is not more than regular societies' sexual rules? The Iskconites are not life long celibates, they have kids, they are not monitored or certified celibate, and so they cannot be classified as celibate.

Should we bow down and worship them as perfect because they like to be vegetarian and pray before dinner? Should we worship people who do not gamble? Should we worship people who do not drink or smoke, or take coffee? Should we lie down on the floor, in a physically vulnerable position, in order to worship people because they call out to God in praise?

None of these are good reasons to go right back to what is, according to them, the original mistake that got us here. What is worse is that they have the nerve to tell us on no uncertain authoritarian terms, that we should repeat our original sin, with them playing the "stand in stunt man role of God" then that, they claim, will lead to being accepted back into the spiritual world and into our original bodies, because by worshiping our yoga teachers and getting ourselves worshiped in the process, is the way to show God that we are not trying to take his place. Wha? :-)

So let's say you steal a book and get kicked out of heaven. What makes them think that stealing a book with someone who is, or was, also a book thief will be a good rehabilitation? Their claim that some Gurus are eternally liberated and perfect and never tried to be God (steal a book) is stupid because they are physically acting like they are trying to be God now. LOL

Also their idea is that when we fell, Krishna took our memory away, giving us full on amnesia, which is counter productive to any rehab program. LOL

So if we follow their scenario, "surrender" and worship a teacher called "Guru" then only due to the teacher having an exclusive ticket program to go back to heaven (spiritual world) we get to be returned to our original bodies and home. The problem is that our rehab was done in amnesia, so as soon as we wake up in the spiritual world, in our original bodies, remembering who we are and who God is, then we are back to square one, dealing with the original reason why we fell down, which is that we worship other people rather than God including ourselves as part of the succession of people being worshiped. But now we just spent a lifetime doing exactly the thing that got us kicked out. See the contradiction?

The problem is that once we are in the spiritual world again, according to Iskcon, we cannot leave, even though we have not solved the problems for which we originally needed counseling. After all the worshiping of teachers as God in order to go back to Godhead, now we are "conditioned" even worse then when we were thrown out.

They say "no problem" because Krishna again messes around with our paradigm and framework of our existence and makes us forget all that, so we can become the role we play in the spiritual world and love him thinking we are that character that Krsihna put in our heads using yoga maya or illusion given by God. Is this a healthy scenario? Imagine if your parents kept wiping your memory like M.I.B? lol

Iskcon is having us do the exact "sin" that caused our fall down, according to them, so if you care about logic or reality, then it is obvious that these vedic concepts are made up and they are not only illogical but they make God out to be a mean spirited manipulative megalomaniac, who plays with the minds of His kids, and even comes and kills them just for fun... all that is only due to Krishna 's inability to give good counseling in the first place. Iskcon says it is OK because God gives liberation. LOL The spiritual world is said to have everything one desires, however they evidently have no shrinks.... instead they throw us into a world of death and take our memory away so we can never get our equilibrium back, if we ever had it at all....

If iskcon wasn't so dictatorial and demand no questioning of authority, then the philosophy would have been cool, like a hippie trippy beatnik philosophy thing which goes along with the veggie idea. They took a spiritual idea and turned it right back into a material one by doing the exact same activity that supposedly got us into trouble with God in the first place...excuses and weird raps of theirs aside. LOL

All one has to do is to bring a dictionary to a Hare Krishna meeting or discussion and quickly you will realize they do not even use words in their real meaning, and if you point it out they get personally mean to you and blame you. Why? Because the cornerstone of the philosophy, due to being from the bronze age, is to blame us for the lousy job that God did with the creation as they believe He made it purposefully bad because we wanted it . haha I'll buy that and the Brooklyn Bridge please.. to go LOL :-)

If you want chanting without so much cultism, try Bhaktifest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2019 02:18AM by Paul T Harrison.

I am not against study of the vedas, calling out to God, avoiding gambling, staying true to marital vows, being a veggie or vegan, and avoiding intoxication.

Being an American, of course I am happy for anyone to be free to believe their philosophy and/or myths that actually helps people in their lives, which the vedic stories are capable of doing, like Aesops fables.

My disagreement, and I have to humbly admit after all these years and after having used Hare Krishna somewhat as a teenage rebellion thing to a degree, is the same as was my fathers disagreement, which is the delusional authoritarian part of Iskcon.

Obviously I know so many wonderful people in KC and I am not against them. When I was in need emotionally, spiritually, and physically in need, the Christians were really weird and mean to me, except a few :-) Many devotees were also weird with me, however there were many devotees, as I called around the country to get help with deprogramming and creating a new paradigm, that were amazingly merciful, honest, and stay with me and helped me so recover my equilibrium.

I have since learned and now have under control, a mental syndrome called "mania". Many musicians and performers have it and many organizations like Iskcon exploit it. Iskcon does along with many other syndromes like OCD, addictive behavior, submissive co-dependency etc.

The Christians get excited when they learn some candidate for their flock is mentally ill enough to see Jesus come out of the wall. lol

THAT is hat I am against... exploiting regular innocent folks....

Believe me, if Iskcon were completely honest they would be ten times bigger because there are actually caring people that love to donate to a cause that is honest. They got an amazing vedic cookbook.... great beat and music.... philosophy to have fun with.... organic farming..... meditation.....

more than enough but Noooooo, they have to be supreme authorities and try and make people give up their critical thinking and turn themselves into bronze age conspiracy theorists. LOl



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2019 03:18AM by Paul T Harrison.

Oh and to be sure, there are many actual certified therapists who are also devotees, and I was helped by them.... Again, the Vedas and bhakti yoga, in my view, taken with a grain of modern updated salt is a really cool thing, and I appreciate the forum to be able to express my opinions and observations:-)

I like Bhakti and Hatha and other Yogas, and I feel with this post that I have concluded any comments on Iskcon and I sincerely wish them all well. I realize that there are many perspectives and opinions, and mine is only that, my one opinion and humor, and that is all :-)

ISKCON new comers...are told this . blue God Krishna is the supreme personality of Godhead ....meaning there is no other form of GODS above the form of Krishna ..they are told that Krishna come to earth 5,000 years ago and did all kinds of extraordinary activities as describe in their KRISHNA BOOK including having 10,000 wifes ...and batling demons that where giants (altought there is no proof that there was sucha historical person ever existed ) New comers are also told that Krishna now lives on a spiritual planet ...and that the goal of life is to FALL IN LOVE WITH THIS GOD AND HIS GIRLFRIEND RADHA ...by constantly serving him and chanting the HARE KRISHNA MANTRA .In Advaita philosophy or most Buddhist philosophy ...the student is ask to examine the mind by all kinds of meditation process ...ISKCON does not beleive in traditional meditations...it only beleive in accepting Krishna as the SUPREME GOD and serving and serving him and his representative the pure devotee guru ...that was at one time Swami Bhaktivedanta who died in 1977 ...Now a few hundreds GURUS have declared themselves "PURE DEVOTEES OF KRISHNAS" and over the years many many have cheated their followers ...by being very sexually active ...womanisers and many where pedophiles ...Beleiving in the teachings of ISKCON also mean beleiving in all the teachings of Swami Bhaktivedanta ...who said that women where less intelligent than man ...that homosexuality was DEMONIC ACTIVITIES and that the BLACK RACE WAS AN UGLY RACE ...ISKCON as been plague with scandals especially the abuses of hundres of childrens that where sexually molested in their schools like in NEW VRINDAVAN and in India ...resulting in dozens of suicides of those ex students of ISKCON scholls ..

These quotes of Swami Bhaktivedanta are so shameful ...who would want to join this cult after reading them

[harekrishnathing.com]

And all the present ISKCON gurus in 2019 have to worship ...bow down and sing the praise of Swami Bhaktivedanta if they want to be recognize as "pure representative of Swami Bhaktivedanta and of the blue GOD Krishna

Thank you :-)

A few years ago I went to Israel and met some Hare Krishnas in the streets ...None of them spoke english ...so they get their Hare Krishna training directly from a few peices of litteratures that ISKCON as publish in Hebrew ...Its the same routine for the others Hare Krishna I met in South America .Its the same Eastern Europe ..in Hong Kong.
The terribles abuses of the past in ISKCON are not share at all by ISKCON ..they do not say anything to the new converts .....So you have a bunch of sincere devotees of Krishna .. totally brainwash and control by a hundred little gurus that now claim to be "PURE "representatives of Swami Bhaktivedanta ...These little gurus know the scams but many are getting wealthy ...receiving adorations from ignorant followers ...they are NOT about to say anything about the past sins of ISKCON

WOW Thank you GODHIMSELF, for that perspective :-)