Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
TheSpare
()
Date: March 18, 2021 10:29PM
I`ve not been looking forward to writing this post because it involves the topic of politics. I`ve no real choice however because of the way James has conflated having the `correct` political view with following Dharma. This was our point of contention.
There is a connection between politics and Dharma because Universal dharma is of the nature of reality - Svadharma. capital S. We have though our `personal` dharma. svadharma with a small s.... our values that we were born with and need to live out in order to be fulfilled. even if that means we need to live the life of a thief or a saint.
Ultimately, we need to convert our personal dharma so it is in line with universal dharma so we can live freely. any discrepancy between our personal dharma and universal dharma is the cause of our personal suffering. It follows that if we act adharmicaly, we will not only suffer ourselves but cause suffering in the wider society and world. I of course have no argument with this. it`s not exactly `rocket science`.
James``correct` political view was that Trump was the personification of adharma/evil and that anyone who didn`t agree with this opinion doesn`t understand the connection between Dharma and Liberation/reality. It begs the pertinent question of why the subject of Trump arose in the first place and is it really relevant to understanding Dharma / adharma. Why this overbearing emphasis on Trump that pre-occupies James so much and has done so for a long time ? way before the subject became an issue between James and myself.
The subject came up nearly five years ago before the last presidential elections i the USA. I`m a `Brit` so I wasn`t strongly invested in who became president but James certainly was.
We were having a skype conversation when I mentioned that I thought that Trump would win. James became agitated upon hearing this and retorted " Absolutely impossible ! Hillary is by far the most qualified for the job. it won`t happen ! ". he said that in a way to shut me down but I laughed and replied that "He`ll win, and you won`t even know why ! ". His opinion didn`t bother me because for me, that`s all it was. a political opinion and like the great guru Clint Eastwood once said ... " opinions are like assholes. everybody`s got one ! ".
As the months and years passed, we had some short discussions about politics. one such discussion revolved round the Brexit topic where the UK voted to leave the European Union. James was against this and our discussions eventually ended where James couldn`t find a convincing reason why the UK should remain in the European Union. His final argument rested on saying that the EU had many more electricity generating windmills.
I had concluded at this point that he was politically illiterate and again, it didn`t bother me.
As time drew nearer to the recently passed presidential elections, James would add little comments to his emails to me such as ..." it looks like things are not going too well for `Your` man" . "Still proud of `your` man, Stan ? " etc. it was always "My" man for some reason when I had no great interest in Trump as a person at all.
I responded by saying that "I think he`ll win this election too " in a jokey manner. I thought we were just playing the game of politics. it seems not. He got really fired up and said " right, $ 100 says you`re wrong ". " put your money up and I mean to actually collect it ".
I replied by saying that i`ve no intention of making such a bet, I don`t do betting. and anyway, I can`t afford it ...I havn`t got the big money that you have ! ".
James wouldn`t leave it at that though. he was off and away with his pet peeve. He followed up with saying, " right, call it $50 and I won`t let you off the money ! ". end of conversation as far as he was concerned. I wondered why he was so fired up about shutting me down ....
These conversations ended on our last skype talk when the Trump topic came up yet again. I was telling James in effect that i`m not interested in Trump as such. His constant agitating rants about him were beside the point as far as my view of Dharma / adharma go. Trump was a republican and Just a figurehead of the party to me. In my view, the Democrats were the party of adharma because they were/are strongly against free speech and have an agenda that puts them on an ultimate trajectory towards totalitarianism.
I base this not on opinion alone nor am i a conspiracy theorist. That accusation is just a crude way of limiting my free speech. I`m no avid follower of either the mainstream media nor it`s alternative. neither can be trusted using blind belief or just emotional thinking.
It`s pretty obvious to anyone who has critical thinking skills that the democrats work in tandem with the Big tech monopolies...facebook, twitter, google etc and the mainstream media. One just has to see who or what is cancelled, to know who has an agenda in censorship. It seems to come from mainly one side. the left liberal side.
I don`t need to be a conspiracy theorist. why ? because I read what these various parties of the left `say about themselves and what their aims are`. it`s all out in the public domain. for example, BLM was set up by two marxists who want to break up the society and install a totalitarian one. it`s all out in the open.
James accused me of having contempt for the mainstream media as though it was a horrendous crime. well yes, I do have that contempt. I don`t like being lied to nor censored. I consider the correct attitude to the mainstream media to be that of a dog`s relationship to a lamp post. If you believe all that the papers tell you then sorry but, you`re gullible.
As I was saying, during James and mine last satsang, we were discussing the arguments and points above and the conversation got more and more heated. He tried to talk over me and not let me say my response by switching the argument from it Not being about Trump. I said, " so why bring Trump into it at all then ? You can`t have it both ways. You can`t just have clarity on a subject with one view alone as if the Trump topic exists in a vacuum. Who would you suggest I support, admire or look up to on the Democrat side instead? "
This seemed to drive him apoplectic. He wouldn`t give an example despite my repeated requests to do so. He just wouldn`t go there and started shouting at me. he got up and shouted right into his screen that he won`t discuss it ever again with me as I just won`t listen. I thought exactly the same about him and wondered why he had lost the plot although he apologised to me for shouting afterwards. why was he so agitated ? it`s a bad sign in my book and I thought he had definitely lost his power of discrimination. something had come to an end between us.
I knew then that my only option was to apologise and say I agree with everything he says or it`s not going to end well for me. To be honest, there was no conflict within me. I didn`t feel hurt or belittled and felt that none of this really effects me. i`m going to be out of here. I just didn`t expect that to happen so quickly and didn`t think i`d be character assassinated. let alone have so many untruths written about me. James still spreads them to this day. more about that later.
The next post will be on how the Swartzes campaign to discredit me publicly began .
There is a connection between politics and Dharma because Universal dharma is of the nature of reality - Svadharma. capital S. We have though our `personal` dharma. svadharma with a small s.... our values that we were born with and need to live out in order to be fulfilled. even if that means we need to live the life of a thief or a saint.
Ultimately, we need to convert our personal dharma so it is in line with universal dharma so we can live freely. any discrepancy between our personal dharma and universal dharma is the cause of our personal suffering. It follows that if we act adharmicaly, we will not only suffer ourselves but cause suffering in the wider society and world. I of course have no argument with this. it`s not exactly `rocket science`.
James``correct` political view was that Trump was the personification of adharma/evil and that anyone who didn`t agree with this opinion doesn`t understand the connection between Dharma and Liberation/reality. It begs the pertinent question of why the subject of Trump arose in the first place and is it really relevant to understanding Dharma / adharma. Why this overbearing emphasis on Trump that pre-occupies James so much and has done so for a long time ? way before the subject became an issue between James and myself.
The subject came up nearly five years ago before the last presidential elections i the USA. I`m a `Brit` so I wasn`t strongly invested in who became president but James certainly was.
We were having a skype conversation when I mentioned that I thought that Trump would win. James became agitated upon hearing this and retorted " Absolutely impossible ! Hillary is by far the most qualified for the job. it won`t happen ! ". he said that in a way to shut me down but I laughed and replied that "He`ll win, and you won`t even know why ! ". His opinion didn`t bother me because for me, that`s all it was. a political opinion and like the great guru Clint Eastwood once said ... " opinions are like assholes. everybody`s got one ! ".
As the months and years passed, we had some short discussions about politics. one such discussion revolved round the Brexit topic where the UK voted to leave the European Union. James was against this and our discussions eventually ended where James couldn`t find a convincing reason why the UK should remain in the European Union. His final argument rested on saying that the EU had many more electricity generating windmills.
I had concluded at this point that he was politically illiterate and again, it didn`t bother me.
As time drew nearer to the recently passed presidential elections, James would add little comments to his emails to me such as ..." it looks like things are not going too well for `Your` man" . "Still proud of `your` man, Stan ? " etc. it was always "My" man for some reason when I had no great interest in Trump as a person at all.
I responded by saying that "I think he`ll win this election too " in a jokey manner. I thought we were just playing the game of politics. it seems not. He got really fired up and said " right, $ 100 says you`re wrong ". " put your money up and I mean to actually collect it ".
I replied by saying that i`ve no intention of making such a bet, I don`t do betting. and anyway, I can`t afford it ...I havn`t got the big money that you have ! ".
James wouldn`t leave it at that though. he was off and away with his pet peeve. He followed up with saying, " right, call it $50 and I won`t let you off the money ! ". end of conversation as far as he was concerned. I wondered why he was so fired up about shutting me down ....
These conversations ended on our last skype talk when the Trump topic came up yet again. I was telling James in effect that i`m not interested in Trump as such. His constant agitating rants about him were beside the point as far as my view of Dharma / adharma go. Trump was a republican and Just a figurehead of the party to me. In my view, the Democrats were the party of adharma because they were/are strongly against free speech and have an agenda that puts them on an ultimate trajectory towards totalitarianism.
I base this not on opinion alone nor am i a conspiracy theorist. That accusation is just a crude way of limiting my free speech. I`m no avid follower of either the mainstream media nor it`s alternative. neither can be trusted using blind belief or just emotional thinking.
It`s pretty obvious to anyone who has critical thinking skills that the democrats work in tandem with the Big tech monopolies...facebook, twitter, google etc and the mainstream media. One just has to see who or what is cancelled, to know who has an agenda in censorship. It seems to come from mainly one side. the left liberal side.
I don`t need to be a conspiracy theorist. why ? because I read what these various parties of the left `say about themselves and what their aims are`. it`s all out in the public domain. for example, BLM was set up by two marxists who want to break up the society and install a totalitarian one. it`s all out in the open.
James accused me of having contempt for the mainstream media as though it was a horrendous crime. well yes, I do have that contempt. I don`t like being lied to nor censored. I consider the correct attitude to the mainstream media to be that of a dog`s relationship to a lamp post. If you believe all that the papers tell you then sorry but, you`re gullible.
As I was saying, during James and mine last satsang, we were discussing the arguments and points above and the conversation got more and more heated. He tried to talk over me and not let me say my response by switching the argument from it Not being about Trump. I said, " so why bring Trump into it at all then ? You can`t have it both ways. You can`t just have clarity on a subject with one view alone as if the Trump topic exists in a vacuum. Who would you suggest I support, admire or look up to on the Democrat side instead? "
This seemed to drive him apoplectic. He wouldn`t give an example despite my repeated requests to do so. He just wouldn`t go there and started shouting at me. he got up and shouted right into his screen that he won`t discuss it ever again with me as I just won`t listen. I thought exactly the same about him and wondered why he had lost the plot although he apologised to me for shouting afterwards. why was he so agitated ? it`s a bad sign in my book and I thought he had definitely lost his power of discrimination. something had come to an end between us.
I knew then that my only option was to apologise and say I agree with everything he says or it`s not going to end well for me. To be honest, there was no conflict within me. I didn`t feel hurt or belittled and felt that none of this really effects me. i`m going to be out of here. I just didn`t expect that to happen so quickly and didn`t think i`d be character assassinated. let alone have so many untruths written about me. James still spreads them to this day. more about that later.
The next post will be on how the Swartzes campaign to discredit me publicly began .
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
TheSpare
()
Date: March 18, 2021 10:33PM
Here is James` first notification that i`m about to be `unendorsed` as a shiningworld teacher.
Dear Rory and Arlindo,
I hope you are both well and life is good despite it’s strange and varied challenges right now! We are both very well, life goes on as happily as always.
During a recent conversation with Stan, I wondered how he justified his staunch support of Trump in light of the teachings of dharma and adharma as expressed in the Bhagavad Gita. Until this conversation I had assumed that he had assimilated the teachings of dharma with reference to moksa but I discovered that my assumption wasn’t correct, that he hadn’t properly completed the listening phase of Vedanta and I was concerned that someone teaching under the aegis of ShiningWorld might confuse people on this vital topic. Keeping in mind that I have only received positive feedback about his teaching I don’t want you to think that this is a personal conflict although our political views are very different. Ordinary samsaris are entitled to their own views. But Vedanta teachers are only entitled to Isvara’s view because Isvara is dharma raja.
I spent several hours writing up a satsang about the relationship between moksa and dharma hoping that he would respond dispassionately but I was disappointed to see that he completely ignored my argument and expressed his support for Trump. It is an argument that anyone committed to truth would have to accept but Stan took it as difference of opinion and I realized that the conspiracy mindset had somehow compromised his discrimination to the point where he was no longer listening. Sundari also felt that he had become indoctrinated by the subjective reality that conspiracy theorists live in and felt there was not much point in trying to get through to him. Everyone has their pratibhasika reality but we live in Isvara’s transactional vyavahrika reality and if the human race wants to get along people sometimes need to sacrifice their beliefs for the good of the whole. Only love will make the world great again. A person like Trump may be good at destroying things but building a better society is best left to reasonable people.
I have always said that nobody needs to like me but, in so far as a person is communicating with me, he or she should listen to what I’m saying on the topic of Vedanta. If you are interested in the whole argument I am happy to share our correspondence with you, although I think you both understand the importance of dharma with reference to moksa. I have no idea whether Stan has shared his political views with either of you. I have not posted it on the web at this time, although I will post it anonymously later because it is a very important topic. The Gita makes a point to inform us that dharma always trumps (pun not intended) moksa before, during and after moksa.
I think of Stan as a friend and admire him for his devotion and contributions to the sampradya so far. At one point I think he considered me his Vedanta teacher but it seems that is no longer the case. So we relieved him of his ShiningWorld duties and unendorsed him as a teacher. I would consider reinstating him if I was convinced that he understood and accepted the teaching on this crucial point but neither Sundari or I have a lot of confidence that this will happen. Sometimes tamoguna is so powerful that it completely covers sattva and a person doesn’t even know why they hold certain beliefs, much less look at them objectively in light of the teaching.
So that’s the state of play. I hope you are both well and prospering in every way.
Dear Rory and Arlindo,
I hope you are both well and life is good despite it’s strange and varied challenges right now! We are both very well, life goes on as happily as always.
During a recent conversation with Stan, I wondered how he justified his staunch support of Trump in light of the teachings of dharma and adharma as expressed in the Bhagavad Gita. Until this conversation I had assumed that he had assimilated the teachings of dharma with reference to moksa but I discovered that my assumption wasn’t correct, that he hadn’t properly completed the listening phase of Vedanta and I was concerned that someone teaching under the aegis of ShiningWorld might confuse people on this vital topic. Keeping in mind that I have only received positive feedback about his teaching I don’t want you to think that this is a personal conflict although our political views are very different. Ordinary samsaris are entitled to their own views. But Vedanta teachers are only entitled to Isvara’s view because Isvara is dharma raja.
I spent several hours writing up a satsang about the relationship between moksa and dharma hoping that he would respond dispassionately but I was disappointed to see that he completely ignored my argument and expressed his support for Trump. It is an argument that anyone committed to truth would have to accept but Stan took it as difference of opinion and I realized that the conspiracy mindset had somehow compromised his discrimination to the point where he was no longer listening. Sundari also felt that he had become indoctrinated by the subjective reality that conspiracy theorists live in and felt there was not much point in trying to get through to him. Everyone has their pratibhasika reality but we live in Isvara’s transactional vyavahrika reality and if the human race wants to get along people sometimes need to sacrifice their beliefs for the good of the whole. Only love will make the world great again. A person like Trump may be good at destroying things but building a better society is best left to reasonable people.
I have always said that nobody needs to like me but, in so far as a person is communicating with me, he or she should listen to what I’m saying on the topic of Vedanta. If you are interested in the whole argument I am happy to share our correspondence with you, although I think you both understand the importance of dharma with reference to moksa. I have no idea whether Stan has shared his political views with either of you. I have not posted it on the web at this time, although I will post it anonymously later because it is a very important topic. The Gita makes a point to inform us that dharma always trumps (pun not intended) moksa before, during and after moksa.
I think of Stan as a friend and admire him for his devotion and contributions to the sampradya so far. At one point I think he considered me his Vedanta teacher but it seems that is no longer the case. So we relieved him of his ShiningWorld duties and unendorsed him as a teacher. I would consider reinstating him if I was convinced that he understood and accepted the teaching on this crucial point but neither Sundari or I have a lot of confidence that this will happen. Sometimes tamoguna is so powerful that it completely covers sattva and a person doesn’t even know why they hold certain beliefs, much less look at them objectively in light of the teaching.
So that’s the state of play. I hope you are both well and prospering in every way.
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
TheSpare
()
Date: March 19, 2021 09:05AM
.Hi Stan,
Hi James,
Thanks for your reply. I think the only way to resolve this is to keep the current political situation out of it since there is no agreement on our respective sources of information.
* I agree that we don`t need to go into the specifics and minutiae of the current political situation, but only because it`s an impractical proposition. We could spend days if not weeks in investigating the truth behind the sources of information. I`d do it if needs be but I suspect we`d still not agree in the end because we don`t trust each others sources of said information. we would need to agree on a dispassionate and scientifically true way of determining which source is reporting facts as opposed to pushing agendas. If there was one such source which everybody trusted, there would be precious little discord and strife in the world of politics. I sometimes wonder whether a benevolent dictator would be preferable to the divisions and animosity we experience today.
Having said that, since the Trump topic is intertwined with the political situation, I don`t see how we can completely divorce the two. I don`t see Trump without what he supports and what he is against. i`m not referring to his character traits alone. why ? because nothing exists in a vacuum.... the Trump idea has to be contextualised both in terms of values, personal and universal and how those personal values play out in the transactual reality.
J. I believe my problem is that I assumed that we shared Vedanta’s view of dharma and karma, which is necessary if I am going to support teachers.
* I believe I do hold vedanta`s view of dharma and karma. it`s not exactly rocket science, whether you support me as a teacher or not.
J. So let me formulate my question as an hypothetical. Suppose there is a person who knows the truth and teaches Vedanta and this person supports a role model that lies and cheats, toots his own horn incessantly, encourages violence and is dissatisfied with his karma. In keeping with the teaching in the second chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, which is the essence of Vedanta and a perennial scripture on dharma and truth, would you say that this person had assimilated the teaching? And if so, why?
* Well, this is a classic straw man argument, isn`t it ? it doesn`t hold for the following reasons ...
Vedanta`s views on dharma and karma are not hypotheses.
You are asking me to put myself into a double bind where heads you win and tails, I lose. give me some credit, please
You have not at all proven any evidence that the so called person ( who shall be nameless Lol ) is a liar and a cheat. you certainly havn`t evidenced that he promotes violence. and havn`t you noticed that all politicians `toot their own horn` anyway ? you omit entirely to say what the alternative to man in question is. Do you find this not pertinent ?
Furthermore, I don`t support your example as a `role model`. that`s either conjecture or just good old projection on your part and I disown it. I have never said that the man is my `role model` . I originally said that he would win his first election and you responded by saying " impossible, it won`t happen. Hillary is by far the most qualified to be president ". You were always the one that got disturbed by the Trump issue even to the point of insisting I have a monetary bet with you where you said Trump won`t win next time. I wanted none of it. It`s not as if I cared as Ishwara takes care of the whole without fail in the end. why should I worry ?
My final point is that it`s all very well talking about personal/ svadharma and Universal dharma / samanya dharma but this is oversimplifying the issue. where is your response to the issue of Visesa dharma or situational ethics ? it`s non existent. to be clear, I would like to quote your words from the Essence book ...
" it is not always given us to know what Universal values demand. Life is not an ideal and situations come across in shades of grey. ( " our respective sources of information " ) ?sometimes Violence is necessary. When an unpalatable truth will cause needless emotional harm, sometimes a white lie is the way to go. How we interpret samanya dharma is called Visesa dharma. You can think of it as situational ethics . " .
Hence my apparent support for Trump over the other option ...Visesa dharma.
J. Finally, if that teacher disputed his teacher’s interpretation of the Gita’s teaching on dharma, karma and moksa, would you say it was the teacher's teacher's responsibility to support his student?
* I don`t dispute my teacher`s interpretation of the Gita`s teaching on dharma, karma and moksa. I dispute that he adequately took Visesa dharma into consideration.
J. If all beliefs and opinions are just mithya then Vedanta suggests that you inquire into why you are attached to a particular value. One thing I picked up from your recent letter was the idea that Trump didn't get a fair shake but Obama did.
?* Yes and no. he got a fair break insofar as he did win his previous election and near as darn it half of all eligible voters voted for him. He didn`t get a fair break in my view as his election was never accepted in good grace nor in practise by the losing party. he was vilified and obstructed literally from day one but again by just half of the electorate once again showing that life is a zero sum gain reality. that the big money technocrats could buy power and influence worked against him is another story. Obama didn`t have the big money elites working against him , they worked with him in my view. it never ceases to amaze me how politicians manage to become multi-millionaires when they are put into a position of power. and yes, that includes Obama. how did Pelosi manage to have $230 million in her bank account ?
J. Apart from the law of karma which explains the difference, Trump and Obama are only thoughts in your mind. So they are actually proxies for a particular part of yourself, which suggests that your identification with those thoughts indicates that some part of you doesn't feel that it got a fair shake.
?* So you`re saying that there is no such thing as justice or injustice ? I`m not saying that Trump didn`t get a fair shake any more than you`re saying that Trump isn`t a proxy for an unfair thought in your mind. you`re entitled to your thoughts and opinions . to be honest, your opinions are of little interest to me. isn`t that how it should be ?
J. I imagine that you think my unendorsement is unjust.
?I don`t think of it as just or unjust. I really could care less. You may recall that I said several times prior to being `endorsed` that I have zero desire or ambition to be a teacher. I meant it and still do. I didn`t even post my satsangs on the website as I wasn`t looking for `students` and preferred to not have many. You know how time consuming personal teaching is yourself. sometimes we`d swap notes about a student to gain better clarity of what their true question is as opposed to the ostensible one. I recall you saying a couple of times ... " We`re saints Stan. why do we end up going to these lengths ? ". It wasn`t us complaining of course but despite doing Ishwara`s work, what choice is there. Teachers of vedanta care for their students as for themselves.
I still have people who write to me and some have been frightened off by the what ? five satsangs deriding me and my understanding so far.
Actually, I was very much in two minds as to whether to reply to you. I thought we were talking sincerely and frankly without pre-conceptions. it transpires that whilst we were doing so, Sundari was posting up another satsang and putting the boot in yet again. This time she was caught out lying. sorry to put it bluntly. A satsangee was saying how compassionate you both were to not divulge my name to not hurt my feelings presumably. the only problem was that I had been identified by name by Sundari in a previous satsang but my name has now been removed it seems. Sundari took full praise without of course mentioning that my name had been divulged openly. I seem to have the singular honour of being outed on the website it seems.
I don`t particularly care as how many teachers are there, and who`s missing ? it doesn`t take a Sherlock holmes to work it out. furthermore, i`ve been accused of joining the nest of vipers on the Cult education website. i`ve never made a single post nor gone public with my `story` apart to a few people who have wrote me and asked for it. I gave one person i`d been helping previously my story and that was designed to get back to yourselves.
How many more satsangs are you proposing to put up about how tamasic, deluded and vengeful I am ? it`s the posting of untruths that I can`t understand.
Is this mail just another ploy for twisting my words and discrediting me further yet again ?
What kind of values are these when you do this ? could you favour me with an answer to this please ?
J. So is this interest in Trumpism actually a happy thought? Does it harmonize your mind? If it does, isn't there a superior way to make yourself feel good? Karma yoga, for instance. I won't go into the details of the downside of the idea of injustice. I'm sure you can figure it out.
* ?For the umpteenth time James, I have no great interest in Trump. You do ... remember ? you`re the one that can`t let go of this subject. it`s just that I don`t agree with your views that`s the problem. I`m more than happy as it is. you don`t have to believe me. it matters not.
J. I'm saying that irrespective of the behavior of the world, you're better than the idea of wrecking the social order because some part of the society is dissatisfied, in so far as society in general seems quite dissatisfied, not to mention Trump, who displays all the signs of a miserable person, these days.
?I don`t have the remotest desire to change the world, thank god. It`s not even possible even if I wanted to ... which I don`t for pretty obvious reasons.
J. Why would a person who doesn't know how to make himself happy, know how to make "America" happy.
* ?Now`s your chance to find out then. from what you want, god won`t save you etc ...
J. My argument is that there is an unexamined samskara behind your political views and that as an inquirer it is your duty to evaluate it in light of the teaching.
* ?Do you know ? you took the words right out of my mouth Lol ... Don`t forget that visesa dharma James. it`s in the book. ????
Stand by for more gaslighting satsangs ?
Stan: If there was one such source which everybody trusted, there would be precious little discord and strife in the world of politics.
James: Well, it’s only in the last thirty years that the idea that evidence-based information was opinion became popular. So it is entirely possible for people to agree on a working standard. If not evidence based, then the only other option is what individuals or groups believe, which doesn’t work, except in a dictatorship. Because of this fact I presented the dharma idea in the context of a vacuum – Vedanta—which is a hermitically sealed means of knowledge. I wasn’t trying to trap you and gaslight you. There are other ways to see it.
***************
Stan: You have not at all proven any evidence that the so called person ( who shall be nameless Lol ) is a liar and a cheat. you certainly haven`t evidenced that he promotes violence.
James: And you can’t present any evidence that he isn’t. This is why there is no way to discuss this issue.
**************
Stan: So you`re saying that there is no such thing as justice or injustice ?
James: Yes, I’m looking at it from Vedanta’s point of view. Justice and injustice are mutually dependent categories. They are not real. The truth is beyond both dharma and adharma. That’s the message in Chapter 2 of the Gita.
*******************
Stan: Sundari was posting up another satsang and putting the boot in yet again. This time she was caught out lying. sorry to put it bluntly.
James: Sundari wrote the satsang with your name ten days ago in response to an inquirer who wrote to her to inform us during a satsang that you were slagging us off. You said you knew where the skeletons were and made untruthful statements about money, etc. You were not provoked by either of us to say those things. The person who wrote Sundari who had been in contact with you said you were, “so obviously vengeful that it made him sick to his stomach.” And he said he was sure you were spreading this malicious gossip around to others.
Sundari felt justified to give you a taste of your own medicine for trying to destroy our reputation. At the same time if you read the satsang you will see that she had many good things to say about you. She felt it was a complete betrayal of our relationship with you, which it is. When I found out an hour later that she posted it with your name, I didn’t disagree that she was justified but I told her to remove your name. Your name was only up for less than an hour and yes, I didn’t want to hurt your feelings because I care for you and you have given ShiningWorld good service. Furthermore, the person who wrote in yesterday on the subject of dharma and conspiracy theories was asking questions with reference to the previous satsang posted ten days ago from which your name had already been removed. We doubt that anyone actually saw it.
Sundari couldn’t believe that I could love somebody who thinks ill of me. But I know how you suffer, even though you have a very nonchalant and careful mask on all the time. I have access to people’s thoughts and yet I love everyone. I never hate people because I know they can’t help their conditioning. I know everything that you know and don’t know about yourself. I had hoped that when you were “trapped” you would come up with a response that would allow me to say a few things that would be helpful for you but it seems you don’t respect me. This conversation is over.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 09:08AM by TheSpare.
Hi James,
Thanks for your reply. I think the only way to resolve this is to keep the current political situation out of it since there is no agreement on our respective sources of information.
* I agree that we don`t need to go into the specifics and minutiae of the current political situation, but only because it`s an impractical proposition. We could spend days if not weeks in investigating the truth behind the sources of information. I`d do it if needs be but I suspect we`d still not agree in the end because we don`t trust each others sources of said information. we would need to agree on a dispassionate and scientifically true way of determining which source is reporting facts as opposed to pushing agendas. If there was one such source which everybody trusted, there would be precious little discord and strife in the world of politics. I sometimes wonder whether a benevolent dictator would be preferable to the divisions and animosity we experience today.
Having said that, since the Trump topic is intertwined with the political situation, I don`t see how we can completely divorce the two. I don`t see Trump without what he supports and what he is against. i`m not referring to his character traits alone. why ? because nothing exists in a vacuum.... the Trump idea has to be contextualised both in terms of values, personal and universal and how those personal values play out in the transactual reality.
J. I believe my problem is that I assumed that we shared Vedanta’s view of dharma and karma, which is necessary if I am going to support teachers.
* I believe I do hold vedanta`s view of dharma and karma. it`s not exactly rocket science, whether you support me as a teacher or not.
J. So let me formulate my question as an hypothetical. Suppose there is a person who knows the truth and teaches Vedanta and this person supports a role model that lies and cheats, toots his own horn incessantly, encourages violence and is dissatisfied with his karma. In keeping with the teaching in the second chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, which is the essence of Vedanta and a perennial scripture on dharma and truth, would you say that this person had assimilated the teaching? And if so, why?
* Well, this is a classic straw man argument, isn`t it ? it doesn`t hold for the following reasons ...
Vedanta`s views on dharma and karma are not hypotheses.
You are asking me to put myself into a double bind where heads you win and tails, I lose. give me some credit, please
You have not at all proven any evidence that the so called person ( who shall be nameless Lol ) is a liar and a cheat. you certainly havn`t evidenced that he promotes violence. and havn`t you noticed that all politicians `toot their own horn` anyway ? you omit entirely to say what the alternative to man in question is. Do you find this not pertinent ?
Furthermore, I don`t support your example as a `role model`. that`s either conjecture or just good old projection on your part and I disown it. I have never said that the man is my `role model` . I originally said that he would win his first election and you responded by saying " impossible, it won`t happen. Hillary is by far the most qualified to be president ". You were always the one that got disturbed by the Trump issue even to the point of insisting I have a monetary bet with you where you said Trump won`t win next time. I wanted none of it. It`s not as if I cared as Ishwara takes care of the whole without fail in the end. why should I worry ?
My final point is that it`s all very well talking about personal/ svadharma and Universal dharma / samanya dharma but this is oversimplifying the issue. where is your response to the issue of Visesa dharma or situational ethics ? it`s non existent. to be clear, I would like to quote your words from the Essence book ...
" it is not always given us to know what Universal values demand. Life is not an ideal and situations come across in shades of grey. ( " our respective sources of information " ) ?sometimes Violence is necessary. When an unpalatable truth will cause needless emotional harm, sometimes a white lie is the way to go. How we interpret samanya dharma is called Visesa dharma. You can think of it as situational ethics . " .
Hence my apparent support for Trump over the other option ...Visesa dharma.
J. Finally, if that teacher disputed his teacher’s interpretation of the Gita’s teaching on dharma, karma and moksa, would you say it was the teacher's teacher's responsibility to support his student?
* I don`t dispute my teacher`s interpretation of the Gita`s teaching on dharma, karma and moksa. I dispute that he adequately took Visesa dharma into consideration.
J. If all beliefs and opinions are just mithya then Vedanta suggests that you inquire into why you are attached to a particular value. One thing I picked up from your recent letter was the idea that Trump didn't get a fair shake but Obama did.
?* Yes and no. he got a fair break insofar as he did win his previous election and near as darn it half of all eligible voters voted for him. He didn`t get a fair break in my view as his election was never accepted in good grace nor in practise by the losing party. he was vilified and obstructed literally from day one but again by just half of the electorate once again showing that life is a zero sum gain reality. that the big money technocrats could buy power and influence worked against him is another story. Obama didn`t have the big money elites working against him , they worked with him in my view. it never ceases to amaze me how politicians manage to become multi-millionaires when they are put into a position of power. and yes, that includes Obama. how did Pelosi manage to have $230 million in her bank account ?
J. Apart from the law of karma which explains the difference, Trump and Obama are only thoughts in your mind. So they are actually proxies for a particular part of yourself, which suggests that your identification with those thoughts indicates that some part of you doesn't feel that it got a fair shake.
?* So you`re saying that there is no such thing as justice or injustice ? I`m not saying that Trump didn`t get a fair shake any more than you`re saying that Trump isn`t a proxy for an unfair thought in your mind. you`re entitled to your thoughts and opinions . to be honest, your opinions are of little interest to me. isn`t that how it should be ?
J. I imagine that you think my unendorsement is unjust.
?I don`t think of it as just or unjust. I really could care less. You may recall that I said several times prior to being `endorsed` that I have zero desire or ambition to be a teacher. I meant it and still do. I didn`t even post my satsangs on the website as I wasn`t looking for `students` and preferred to not have many. You know how time consuming personal teaching is yourself. sometimes we`d swap notes about a student to gain better clarity of what their true question is as opposed to the ostensible one. I recall you saying a couple of times ... " We`re saints Stan. why do we end up going to these lengths ? ". It wasn`t us complaining of course but despite doing Ishwara`s work, what choice is there. Teachers of vedanta care for their students as for themselves.
I still have people who write to me and some have been frightened off by the what ? five satsangs deriding me and my understanding so far.
Actually, I was very much in two minds as to whether to reply to you. I thought we were talking sincerely and frankly without pre-conceptions. it transpires that whilst we were doing so, Sundari was posting up another satsang and putting the boot in yet again. This time she was caught out lying. sorry to put it bluntly. A satsangee was saying how compassionate you both were to not divulge my name to not hurt my feelings presumably. the only problem was that I had been identified by name by Sundari in a previous satsang but my name has now been removed it seems. Sundari took full praise without of course mentioning that my name had been divulged openly. I seem to have the singular honour of being outed on the website it seems.
I don`t particularly care as how many teachers are there, and who`s missing ? it doesn`t take a Sherlock holmes to work it out. furthermore, i`ve been accused of joining the nest of vipers on the Cult education website. i`ve never made a single post nor gone public with my `story` apart to a few people who have wrote me and asked for it. I gave one person i`d been helping previously my story and that was designed to get back to yourselves.
How many more satsangs are you proposing to put up about how tamasic, deluded and vengeful I am ? it`s the posting of untruths that I can`t understand.
Is this mail just another ploy for twisting my words and discrediting me further yet again ?
What kind of values are these when you do this ? could you favour me with an answer to this please ?
J. So is this interest in Trumpism actually a happy thought? Does it harmonize your mind? If it does, isn't there a superior way to make yourself feel good? Karma yoga, for instance. I won't go into the details of the downside of the idea of injustice. I'm sure you can figure it out.
* ?For the umpteenth time James, I have no great interest in Trump. You do ... remember ? you`re the one that can`t let go of this subject. it`s just that I don`t agree with your views that`s the problem. I`m more than happy as it is. you don`t have to believe me. it matters not.
J. I'm saying that irrespective of the behavior of the world, you're better than the idea of wrecking the social order because some part of the society is dissatisfied, in so far as society in general seems quite dissatisfied, not to mention Trump, who displays all the signs of a miserable person, these days.
?I don`t have the remotest desire to change the world, thank god. It`s not even possible even if I wanted to ... which I don`t for pretty obvious reasons.
J. Why would a person who doesn't know how to make himself happy, know how to make "America" happy.
* ?Now`s your chance to find out then. from what you want, god won`t save you etc ...
J. My argument is that there is an unexamined samskara behind your political views and that as an inquirer it is your duty to evaluate it in light of the teaching.
* ?Do you know ? you took the words right out of my mouth Lol ... Don`t forget that visesa dharma James. it`s in the book. ????
Stand by for more gaslighting satsangs ?
Stan: If there was one such source which everybody trusted, there would be precious little discord and strife in the world of politics.
James: Well, it’s only in the last thirty years that the idea that evidence-based information was opinion became popular. So it is entirely possible for people to agree on a working standard. If not evidence based, then the only other option is what individuals or groups believe, which doesn’t work, except in a dictatorship. Because of this fact I presented the dharma idea in the context of a vacuum – Vedanta—which is a hermitically sealed means of knowledge. I wasn’t trying to trap you and gaslight you. There are other ways to see it.
***************
Stan: You have not at all proven any evidence that the so called person ( who shall be nameless Lol ) is a liar and a cheat. you certainly haven`t evidenced that he promotes violence.
James: And you can’t present any evidence that he isn’t. This is why there is no way to discuss this issue.
**************
Stan: So you`re saying that there is no such thing as justice or injustice ?
James: Yes, I’m looking at it from Vedanta’s point of view. Justice and injustice are mutually dependent categories. They are not real. The truth is beyond both dharma and adharma. That’s the message in Chapter 2 of the Gita.
*******************
Stan: Sundari was posting up another satsang and putting the boot in yet again. This time she was caught out lying. sorry to put it bluntly.
James: Sundari wrote the satsang with your name ten days ago in response to an inquirer who wrote to her to inform us during a satsang that you were slagging us off. You said you knew where the skeletons were and made untruthful statements about money, etc. You were not provoked by either of us to say those things. The person who wrote Sundari who had been in contact with you said you were, “so obviously vengeful that it made him sick to his stomach.” And he said he was sure you were spreading this malicious gossip around to others.
Sundari felt justified to give you a taste of your own medicine for trying to destroy our reputation. At the same time if you read the satsang you will see that she had many good things to say about you. She felt it was a complete betrayal of our relationship with you, which it is. When I found out an hour later that she posted it with your name, I didn’t disagree that she was justified but I told her to remove your name. Your name was only up for less than an hour and yes, I didn’t want to hurt your feelings because I care for you and you have given ShiningWorld good service. Furthermore, the person who wrote in yesterday on the subject of dharma and conspiracy theories was asking questions with reference to the previous satsang posted ten days ago from which your name had already been removed. We doubt that anyone actually saw it.
Sundari couldn’t believe that I could love somebody who thinks ill of me. But I know how you suffer, even though you have a very nonchalant and careful mask on all the time. I have access to people’s thoughts and yet I love everyone. I never hate people because I know they can’t help their conditioning. I know everything that you know and don’t know about yourself. I had hoped that when you were “trapped” you would come up with a response that would allow me to say a few things that would be helpful for you but it seems you don’t respect me. This conversation is over.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 09:08AM by TheSpare.
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
TheSpare
()
Date: March 19, 2021 09:18AM
.Hi James,
I`ll try to keep this brief and won`t go into political arguments ... nice guy that I am. ????
No, not bored at all, Stan. l'm genuinely perplexed at how a self-realized person, a Vedanta teacher at that, could justify supporting such a corrupt person.
?With all due respect, I believe you`re perplexed because you cannot countenance that you may be wrong. hence your `it`s my way or the highway` approach to all who disagree with your view . it is actually only opinion. As we know, opinion is but belief that has not been fully investigate or inquired into. it`s unreliable.
You immediately take it as a given that Trump is corrupt, greedy, racist, mysogynistic, authoritarian, etc. but where is the proof of this ? you read it in the mainstream media ? why should I believe your assertion ? perhaps you are saying that it`s so apparent that only the wilfully blind cannot see it ? that works both ways though.
More importantly, taking Trump out of any kind of context is meaningless. it`s like taking Tony Parsons out of context. you`re fond of saying that you don`t go for the man personally but rather what he stands for. If you follow that through, then you should be looking at what Trump`s record is rather than just knocking the man. Trump was vilified, derided and attacked from day one. His winning of the election was not accepted at all by the opposition and that goes against the basic cornerstone of democracy.
judging by what you make out, America`s troubles started when Trump got into power and previous to that, all was dharmic and well. I repeat, this attacking of Trump started before he had made his first move. On the other hand, Obama was awarded the Nobel peace prize before he even took office. I smell a rat.
This has nothing to do with politics; I've got a fair share of conservative points of view. And I I believe that all non-violent points of view should have the opportunity to govern if they win a majority of the electorate..
?But do you not see the irony in this statement ? Trumps "opportunity to govern" was relentlessly attacked and subverted wherever possible. how many wars did Trump start and how many did Obama start ? " non-violence" ? I must be missing something Lol ... One of Trumps crimes was that he mostly delivered what he promised openly before getting into power and he did have his fair share of positive achievements. not that they`re ever given any credit.
Be that as it may, keeping "Trump" in context, I believe that Biden is way more dishonest in every way than Trump is. his whole family seems to have thrived on corruptness and graft.
The only reason I cut you off was because you wouldn't discuss this issue. My friends always make an effort to relieve me of my ignorance.
?Not so James, I made my point several times. to repeat again, I support Trump mainly by default as I oppose what his left wing and Technocratic elites stand for. .. the overturning of Americas traditional dharmic values and replacing them with something akin to what China is. ie slavery where all forms of freedom are controlled. the absolute marker for this system is the elimination by design of all forms of free speech. free speech is what allows vedanta to exist and for societies to operate in a dharmic way. it`s a basic value of course but look at what has been happening. massive curtailment of free speech, elimination of sites and individuals ( even the president ) who hold the `wrong` view by the social media giants and so on. surely you can`t have missed this ?
You and Sundari accused me of being in thrall to facebook for some reason ( I never go there) and other social media `conspiracy` sites and have consequently lost myself down god knows how manny `rabbit holes`. it may have amused you to say so but it`s completely untrue. give me a little credit if only for old times sake. for instance, when the politically correct left liberals promote the virtues of the black lives matter organisation, I dont automatically let my first reactions dominate my thinking. I inquire further and find out that the organisation was started by two openly self confessed marxists. they want to break the present society and bring in their own style of totalitarianism.... their words. it`s hardly about caring for black lives at all.
I check out the other narratives put out in the same way. I check what their own words are, what their agenda is, and how it plays out in reality. it`s very easy to follow any untruths by checking against theactions and seeing if any hypocracy is working out. for example using our British newspapers, they articles all have a public comments section at the bottom. As soon as an article appears where many people could argue against the narrative, there is always a little editorial note at the bottom that says " comments not available for this article". it is without fail a politically correct article . no free speech again. the pattern is unmissable. again, where does ` conspiracy theory` come into this ? sorry to say but `conspiracy theory` is just another term used for closing down free speech. it`s a cheap ad-hominem type of attack and you should be ashamed of yourself.
In any case this incident made me realize how little I actually know about you, apart from your spiritual history.
?Partly because I was communicating with Sundari directly for most of the time. You`re pretty sketchy about my spiritual history as well which is no big deal as far as i`m concerned. you said that I didn`t complete my sravana properly and base my self knowledge mainly on an experience of the self I had.
You misunderstand. I had what could be called my main self realization experience 40 years ago. in it , I realized that there is only me but I didn`t assimilate the implications of that and so there were continuing consequences.
The so called experience i had in Poland was not an experience as such. it could perhaps be somewhat more closely described as a very strong kundalini experience . it forced a period of intense inquiry lasting perhaps six months and culminated in my knowing without doubt that I am not the doer , I am the knower of the doer. period. it never switched back as that`s impossible and I have been `happy` ceaselessly ever since. after a couple of years, I noticed a slight boredom with the happiness and knew there was still some work to be done.
Shortly afterwards, I found by the usual `accident` that Ishwara provides, your website and vedanta. I instantly knew that I had come home to the place where any remaining confusions will be removed and so it has proven for me to be. Your first book in truth was all I needed.
I didn`t just keep to the general order of following the teaching correctly by not skipping chapters. I didn`t skip paragraphs nor sentences either. I didn`t even go past two adjoining words without being clear about the meaning behind them. I didn`t in fact go past one single word that I couldn`t make sense of and how it related to the sentence it was located in.
I was joyously on fire and totally absorbed in the teaching and that included my dream state. the teaching carried on. the samadhi / absorbtion states that interrupted my reading were brushed aside with impatience. years ago when I was a samadhi junkie, I would have dived into them to chase the bliss. they were now an annoying interruption and brushed aside instantly. In the end, all `dots` were joined up and many mistaken old ( mainly Buddhist) beliefs were uprooted. I felt and feel as pure as a newborn baby and will be eternally grateful for the gift that Ishwara gave, no strings attached. and yes, eternal gratitude to you for playing your part and letting ishwara use you as a stand in to remove all vestiges of ignorance. I readily and humbly admit that I couldn`t have done this job on my own. there is nothing like vedanta as it of course comes directly from Ishwara. that`s one reason why I agree that the teaching must be kept absolutely pure and impersonal.
Sorry to say but mixing politics with vedanta is totally unnecessary and leads to division and confusion. you wouldn`t believe how many people have written me ( I `ve no idea how some even found me ) and said that they could not express their views on the Trump issue for fear of being ostracised and added to the list of those who cannot possibly have proper discrimination. Thank you Sundari for that little gem. not a surprise really since the last unprovoked attack on me. no good deed goes unpunished, I guess ? Lol ... no grudge borne at my end. ????
It makes no sense how a kind loving serving person like you would not think twice about grievance driven identity politics.
?What other kind is there in the USA at least, at this moment ? the old days of Dems v Gop plus some Rinos thrown in have been over for years. it`s all about identity politics now and both sides are full of grievances. it`s very much out in the open now.
The only place I can put it is in the änything is possible in Maya:" category.
?Lol .. that`s funny. my thoughts exactly when I view your Trump rants. of course we`re assuming that each of us is dealing with someone who is deluded by maya. what is it that makes you so right ? because you are the great guru Ramji who cannot have opinions because you are the self ? because you`re a vedanta teacher ? As the great guru Clint Eastwood once said .. " opinions are like assholes; everybody`s got one ".
The only reasonable explanation is that you are unaware of the connection between your attraction to conspiracies and support of authoritarians and your spiritual path,
?You`re projecting James. I have no interest in nor indulge in conspiracies. as I mentioned earlier, the conspiracy word is short for ` you`re wrong so shut up`. it doesn`t wash. I have a valid and logical means of inquiry into political agendas as described earlier. it`s impersonal.
My "support of authoritarians" ? surely you jest ? you have no valid basis of saying that. i`m diametrically opposed to all forms of authoritarianism. who is closing down all forms of free speech that doesn`t follow a certain political agenda at this very moment ? are you `taking the knee` or something ? actually, don`t answer that ...please ! Lol ...
Vedanta particularly, which is based on common sense and reason.. There is no reason why the subjective reality is more unreal that the objective realtity from the Self's point of view but in so far as people situated in the same society must interact with each other, an evidence-based standard is the only one that works.
?And there you have it at last. " evidence-based" ! it`s all about evaluating the evidence. evidence has to be scientifically evaluated or it`s just opinion.
I believe you have not fully & scientifically evaluated your views about Trump. for me, you are in the army opposing Arjuna where I see some of my friends that I love and even my guru. it`s why I had to stick my head out and not stay quiet . with your Trump views, you don`t allow free speech and that is the evidence that tells me you are misguided about mixing politics and vedanta....despite your saying it`s not about politics. why forever rant about it.
When we last skyped and we had the Trump set-to, you said that as the apparent person, you definitely want to change the world ! well that set me back on my heel Lol ... good luck to that one James. god bless you. whatever happened to Ishwara ?
You know, I never needed my guru to be a saint or to be perfect and always knew that he/ she can have worldly views that are wrong. we could be arguing about your saying that Chevrolet cars are better than ford. so what ? it`s the teaching that counts. how could you say with certainty that a chevy is a better car than ford ? in mithya you`re always comparing apples with oranges. the two never meet. you know what i`m saying. I figure that Ishwara gave you the apparent faults that were perfect in leading you to self knowledge and the teaching of vedanta. I have always thought that and still do so. for me nothing has changed despite your not giving me the same allowance. even though some untruths and half truths were said about me in those satsangs that you and Sundari put up, I still don`t hold a different view of you both. it just reminds me that there is no such thing as a perfect person or perfect personal view. I think you slipped up and it`s not my problem. it just redoubles my efforts to catch myself from doing the same, because it will.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 09:19AM by TheSpare.
I`ll try to keep this brief and won`t go into political arguments ... nice guy that I am. ????
No, not bored at all, Stan. l'm genuinely perplexed at how a self-realized person, a Vedanta teacher at that, could justify supporting such a corrupt person.
?With all due respect, I believe you`re perplexed because you cannot countenance that you may be wrong. hence your `it`s my way or the highway` approach to all who disagree with your view . it is actually only opinion. As we know, opinion is but belief that has not been fully investigate or inquired into. it`s unreliable.
You immediately take it as a given that Trump is corrupt, greedy, racist, mysogynistic, authoritarian, etc. but where is the proof of this ? you read it in the mainstream media ? why should I believe your assertion ? perhaps you are saying that it`s so apparent that only the wilfully blind cannot see it ? that works both ways though.
More importantly, taking Trump out of any kind of context is meaningless. it`s like taking Tony Parsons out of context. you`re fond of saying that you don`t go for the man personally but rather what he stands for. If you follow that through, then you should be looking at what Trump`s record is rather than just knocking the man. Trump was vilified, derided and attacked from day one. His winning of the election was not accepted at all by the opposition and that goes against the basic cornerstone of democracy.
judging by what you make out, America`s troubles started when Trump got into power and previous to that, all was dharmic and well. I repeat, this attacking of Trump started before he had made his first move. On the other hand, Obama was awarded the Nobel peace prize before he even took office. I smell a rat.
This has nothing to do with politics; I've got a fair share of conservative points of view. And I I believe that all non-violent points of view should have the opportunity to govern if they win a majority of the electorate..
?But do you not see the irony in this statement ? Trumps "opportunity to govern" was relentlessly attacked and subverted wherever possible. how many wars did Trump start and how many did Obama start ? " non-violence" ? I must be missing something Lol ... One of Trumps crimes was that he mostly delivered what he promised openly before getting into power and he did have his fair share of positive achievements. not that they`re ever given any credit.
Be that as it may, keeping "Trump" in context, I believe that Biden is way more dishonest in every way than Trump is. his whole family seems to have thrived on corruptness and graft.
The only reason I cut you off was because you wouldn't discuss this issue. My friends always make an effort to relieve me of my ignorance.
?Not so James, I made my point several times. to repeat again, I support Trump mainly by default as I oppose what his left wing and Technocratic elites stand for. .. the overturning of Americas traditional dharmic values and replacing them with something akin to what China is. ie slavery where all forms of freedom are controlled. the absolute marker for this system is the elimination by design of all forms of free speech. free speech is what allows vedanta to exist and for societies to operate in a dharmic way. it`s a basic value of course but look at what has been happening. massive curtailment of free speech, elimination of sites and individuals ( even the president ) who hold the `wrong` view by the social media giants and so on. surely you can`t have missed this ?
You and Sundari accused me of being in thrall to facebook for some reason ( I never go there) and other social media `conspiracy` sites and have consequently lost myself down god knows how manny `rabbit holes`. it may have amused you to say so but it`s completely untrue. give me a little credit if only for old times sake. for instance, when the politically correct left liberals promote the virtues of the black lives matter organisation, I dont automatically let my first reactions dominate my thinking. I inquire further and find out that the organisation was started by two openly self confessed marxists. they want to break the present society and bring in their own style of totalitarianism.... their words. it`s hardly about caring for black lives at all.
I check out the other narratives put out in the same way. I check what their own words are, what their agenda is, and how it plays out in reality. it`s very easy to follow any untruths by checking against theactions and seeing if any hypocracy is working out. for example using our British newspapers, they articles all have a public comments section at the bottom. As soon as an article appears where many people could argue against the narrative, there is always a little editorial note at the bottom that says " comments not available for this article". it is without fail a politically correct article . no free speech again. the pattern is unmissable. again, where does ` conspiracy theory` come into this ? sorry to say but `conspiracy theory` is just another term used for closing down free speech. it`s a cheap ad-hominem type of attack and you should be ashamed of yourself.
In any case this incident made me realize how little I actually know about you, apart from your spiritual history.
?Partly because I was communicating with Sundari directly for most of the time. You`re pretty sketchy about my spiritual history as well which is no big deal as far as i`m concerned. you said that I didn`t complete my sravana properly and base my self knowledge mainly on an experience of the self I had.
You misunderstand. I had what could be called my main self realization experience 40 years ago. in it , I realized that there is only me but I didn`t assimilate the implications of that and so there were continuing consequences.
The so called experience i had in Poland was not an experience as such. it could perhaps be somewhat more closely described as a very strong kundalini experience . it forced a period of intense inquiry lasting perhaps six months and culminated in my knowing without doubt that I am not the doer , I am the knower of the doer. period. it never switched back as that`s impossible and I have been `happy` ceaselessly ever since. after a couple of years, I noticed a slight boredom with the happiness and knew there was still some work to be done.
Shortly afterwards, I found by the usual `accident` that Ishwara provides, your website and vedanta. I instantly knew that I had come home to the place where any remaining confusions will be removed and so it has proven for me to be. Your first book in truth was all I needed.
I didn`t just keep to the general order of following the teaching correctly by not skipping chapters. I didn`t skip paragraphs nor sentences either. I didn`t even go past two adjoining words without being clear about the meaning behind them. I didn`t in fact go past one single word that I couldn`t make sense of and how it related to the sentence it was located in.
I was joyously on fire and totally absorbed in the teaching and that included my dream state. the teaching carried on. the samadhi / absorbtion states that interrupted my reading were brushed aside with impatience. years ago when I was a samadhi junkie, I would have dived into them to chase the bliss. they were now an annoying interruption and brushed aside instantly. In the end, all `dots` were joined up and many mistaken old ( mainly Buddhist) beliefs were uprooted. I felt and feel as pure as a newborn baby and will be eternally grateful for the gift that Ishwara gave, no strings attached. and yes, eternal gratitude to you for playing your part and letting ishwara use you as a stand in to remove all vestiges of ignorance. I readily and humbly admit that I couldn`t have done this job on my own. there is nothing like vedanta as it of course comes directly from Ishwara. that`s one reason why I agree that the teaching must be kept absolutely pure and impersonal.
Sorry to say but mixing politics with vedanta is totally unnecessary and leads to division and confusion. you wouldn`t believe how many people have written me ( I `ve no idea how some even found me ) and said that they could not express their views on the Trump issue for fear of being ostracised and added to the list of those who cannot possibly have proper discrimination. Thank you Sundari for that little gem. not a surprise really since the last unprovoked attack on me. no good deed goes unpunished, I guess ? Lol ... no grudge borne at my end. ????
It makes no sense how a kind loving serving person like you would not think twice about grievance driven identity politics.
?What other kind is there in the USA at least, at this moment ? the old days of Dems v Gop plus some Rinos thrown in have been over for years. it`s all about identity politics now and both sides are full of grievances. it`s very much out in the open now.
The only place I can put it is in the änything is possible in Maya:" category.
?Lol .. that`s funny. my thoughts exactly when I view your Trump rants. of course we`re assuming that each of us is dealing with someone who is deluded by maya. what is it that makes you so right ? because you are the great guru Ramji who cannot have opinions because you are the self ? because you`re a vedanta teacher ? As the great guru Clint Eastwood once said .. " opinions are like assholes; everybody`s got one ".
The only reasonable explanation is that you are unaware of the connection between your attraction to conspiracies and support of authoritarians and your spiritual path,
?You`re projecting James. I have no interest in nor indulge in conspiracies. as I mentioned earlier, the conspiracy word is short for ` you`re wrong so shut up`. it doesn`t wash. I have a valid and logical means of inquiry into political agendas as described earlier. it`s impersonal.
My "support of authoritarians" ? surely you jest ? you have no valid basis of saying that. i`m diametrically opposed to all forms of authoritarianism. who is closing down all forms of free speech that doesn`t follow a certain political agenda at this very moment ? are you `taking the knee` or something ? actually, don`t answer that ...please ! Lol ...
Vedanta particularly, which is based on common sense and reason.. There is no reason why the subjective reality is more unreal that the objective realtity from the Self's point of view but in so far as people situated in the same society must interact with each other, an evidence-based standard is the only one that works.
?And there you have it at last. " evidence-based" ! it`s all about evaluating the evidence. evidence has to be scientifically evaluated or it`s just opinion.
I believe you have not fully & scientifically evaluated your views about Trump. for me, you are in the army opposing Arjuna where I see some of my friends that I love and even my guru. it`s why I had to stick my head out and not stay quiet . with your Trump views, you don`t allow free speech and that is the evidence that tells me you are misguided about mixing politics and vedanta....despite your saying it`s not about politics. why forever rant about it.
When we last skyped and we had the Trump set-to, you said that as the apparent person, you definitely want to change the world ! well that set me back on my heel Lol ... good luck to that one James. god bless you. whatever happened to Ishwara ?
You know, I never needed my guru to be a saint or to be perfect and always knew that he/ she can have worldly views that are wrong. we could be arguing about your saying that Chevrolet cars are better than ford. so what ? it`s the teaching that counts. how could you say with certainty that a chevy is a better car than ford ? in mithya you`re always comparing apples with oranges. the two never meet. you know what i`m saying. I figure that Ishwara gave you the apparent faults that were perfect in leading you to self knowledge and the teaching of vedanta. I have always thought that and still do so. for me nothing has changed despite your not giving me the same allowance. even though some untruths and half truths were said about me in those satsangs that you and Sundari put up, I still don`t hold a different view of you both. it just reminds me that there is no such thing as a perfect person or perfect personal view. I think you slipped up and it`s not my problem. it just redoubles my efforts to catch myself from doing the same, because it will.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 09:19AM by TheSpare.
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
Dis-illusioned
()
Date: March 19, 2021 02:38PM
I’ll respond to these posts as a simple person, and as a mere observer. I have no vested interest in who is “right” or “wrong” about the politics. I despise Trump and all he appears to represent - because of the way he treats people publicly. I care not an iota about American politics, or in fact any countries politics. For whatever reason - I’m indifferent to it as I see it as outside of my personal control, and what will be will be. I have no need to be politically aligned. If I were to need to take up a political position, I would use all my energy on a battle that I cannot in any way influence - and I see that as madness.
However, what does concern me is that I put my trust and heartfelt devotion onto the words of a mam who has turned out to be a rotten egg. I say this from a plain and ordinary point of view.
What I see, as an observer, is a man who glorifies himself constantly. I see a man absolutely unbending in his need for praise and deification. I see a man who lies, flatters, manipulates, and pretends - for his own ends. And no I’m not talking about what I see in Trump. That’s what I see in James.
James uses people. End of story. How is that dharmic? He wants to maintain his image as a successful (the most successful) teacher of truth. How then is it, that he speaks with such a forked tongue? He wrote me countless letters praising “me” and telling “me” how loved I was and how nothing I told him about my life story was problematic to him because I was honest, and blah blah blah...and yes he would say that that’s because he sees the Self. However, when the rubber hit the road and the years of listening to him didn’t change the fact that I have a mental impairment that is undoubtedly problematic and needed addressing if I was to ever hope to assimilate the teachings fully, suddenly I was unfit for Vedanta. James decided that and pronounced it so, the moment after I said to him that I find his live teachings to be boring and rambling. When James teaches, he talks more about himself and his life and his opinions on other people, than actually teaching Vedanta. He loses track of time and gets lost in his self-glorification rambles. I found that unbearably boring and distracting. In our private exchanges he was smart and quick and perceptive, but he repeatedly negated my efforts to convince him that there is something essentially flawed, in this jiva.
But when the time came that I knew I needed to address the flaws and get medical assistance, suddenly I was unfit for Vedanta and he was wrong about me all along.
James has done the same thing with Stan (in essence - but to a far greater extent) and he did it to one of his other endorsed teachers that I know of (Daniel) and probably to numerous others. These contradictions baffle me. What is his teaching worth, if it only holds up to be true as long as you side with him, glorify him, and do and think exactly what he wants you to?
Again, I can’t present this through the eyes of Vedanta. I can only speak as an ordinary observer.
To me, a worthy teacher needs to be impeccable. James is by no stretch of the imagination, impeccable. Taking things right back to the days of Heather - if there is no truth to what Heather says, why does James not come clean on the story? Why doesn’t he write about it? Why doesn’t he own his past? Why doesn’t he address his version of the truth? Why doesn’t he do with his own incongruencies, what he does to his students who he decides are unqualified.
The fact that he hides his dark past, the fact the he uses Vedanta to make a living and to extort money from people, the fact that he is politically aligned, the fact even, that he is a criminal - but he refuses to face up to his own duplicity, whilst crucifying his students or associates publicly for the very same things that he is and does, makes him and his claims to know and to teach the truth, a farce in my view.
Undoubtedly he has mastered a certain amount of understanding on Vedanta. But something has gone wrong. Something doesn’t add up. Something falls short in his own assimilation of what he says is a pure and complete teaching. If his teaching is why he says it is, why is he the way he is? Why is it blatantly obvious that he does not live what he teaches? I cannot and do not trust him as a man - even though I see he is super smart. His smartness is what scares me, because it enables him to twist things to suit his own agenda. I have seen this in multiple ways and situations.
All of the drama that this forum throws up about James (and really - it’s a lot of drama. It’s the back-side of the tapestry and the under-belly of the veneer of the story of James) shouldn’t matter one bit to James, if he is who he claims to be, and if knows what he claims to know.
I know from my own experience with him, that what gets said here matters a LOT to him. From the way that he taints his reputation and teachings by posting his reactive attacks on the validity of what gets said here - without ever addressing the facts honestly and openly - I can see that something isn’t right about James.
There is something not aligned in him, and he goes to great lengths to hide that - to the point of tearing apart anyone who does see it, and speak about it.
Not my teacher. Not my guru.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 02:48PM by Dis-illusioned.
However, what does concern me is that I put my trust and heartfelt devotion onto the words of a mam who has turned out to be a rotten egg. I say this from a plain and ordinary point of view.
What I see, as an observer, is a man who glorifies himself constantly. I see a man absolutely unbending in his need for praise and deification. I see a man who lies, flatters, manipulates, and pretends - for his own ends. And no I’m not talking about what I see in Trump. That’s what I see in James.
James uses people. End of story. How is that dharmic? He wants to maintain his image as a successful (the most successful) teacher of truth. How then is it, that he speaks with such a forked tongue? He wrote me countless letters praising “me” and telling “me” how loved I was and how nothing I told him about my life story was problematic to him because I was honest, and blah blah blah...and yes he would say that that’s because he sees the Self. However, when the rubber hit the road and the years of listening to him didn’t change the fact that I have a mental impairment that is undoubtedly problematic and needed addressing if I was to ever hope to assimilate the teachings fully, suddenly I was unfit for Vedanta. James decided that and pronounced it so, the moment after I said to him that I find his live teachings to be boring and rambling. When James teaches, he talks more about himself and his life and his opinions on other people, than actually teaching Vedanta. He loses track of time and gets lost in his self-glorification rambles. I found that unbearably boring and distracting. In our private exchanges he was smart and quick and perceptive, but he repeatedly negated my efforts to convince him that there is something essentially flawed, in this jiva.
But when the time came that I knew I needed to address the flaws and get medical assistance, suddenly I was unfit for Vedanta and he was wrong about me all along.
James has done the same thing with Stan (in essence - but to a far greater extent) and he did it to one of his other endorsed teachers that I know of (Daniel) and probably to numerous others. These contradictions baffle me. What is his teaching worth, if it only holds up to be true as long as you side with him, glorify him, and do and think exactly what he wants you to?
Again, I can’t present this through the eyes of Vedanta. I can only speak as an ordinary observer.
To me, a worthy teacher needs to be impeccable. James is by no stretch of the imagination, impeccable. Taking things right back to the days of Heather - if there is no truth to what Heather says, why does James not come clean on the story? Why doesn’t he write about it? Why doesn’t he own his past? Why doesn’t he address his version of the truth? Why doesn’t he do with his own incongruencies, what he does to his students who he decides are unqualified.
The fact that he hides his dark past, the fact the he uses Vedanta to make a living and to extort money from people, the fact that he is politically aligned, the fact even, that he is a criminal - but he refuses to face up to his own duplicity, whilst crucifying his students or associates publicly for the very same things that he is and does, makes him and his claims to know and to teach the truth, a farce in my view.
Undoubtedly he has mastered a certain amount of understanding on Vedanta. But something has gone wrong. Something doesn’t add up. Something falls short in his own assimilation of what he says is a pure and complete teaching. If his teaching is why he says it is, why is he the way he is? Why is it blatantly obvious that he does not live what he teaches? I cannot and do not trust him as a man - even though I see he is super smart. His smartness is what scares me, because it enables him to twist things to suit his own agenda. I have seen this in multiple ways and situations.
All of the drama that this forum throws up about James (and really - it’s a lot of drama. It’s the back-side of the tapestry and the under-belly of the veneer of the story of James) shouldn’t matter one bit to James, if he is who he claims to be, and if knows what he claims to know.
I know from my own experience with him, that what gets said here matters a LOT to him. From the way that he taints his reputation and teachings by posting his reactive attacks on the validity of what gets said here - without ever addressing the facts honestly and openly - I can see that something isn’t right about James.
There is something not aligned in him, and he goes to great lengths to hide that - to the point of tearing apart anyone who does see it, and speak about it.
Not my teacher. Not my guru.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 02:48PM by Dis-illusioned.
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
Dis-illusioned
()
Date: March 19, 2021 03:16PM
What I was trying to say was - how and why does James get to attack and discredit “The Spare”, or anyone else, over party politics or finances of their past or their mental health etc, when he himself ticks all of the same boxes.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Not to James. So what does that say? And how does that reflect on the message he’s teaching?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 03:17PM by Dis-illusioned.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Not to James. So what does that say? And how does that reflect on the message he’s teaching?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 03:17PM by Dis-illusioned.
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
Valma
()
Date: March 19, 2021 05:54PM
Reflecting on the last posts:
There are people who are very smart but that is not at all a sure sign of wisdom and compassion, usually the contrary...I would say beware of smart people. Some of the smartest people have led the world into the current chaos through long-planned hidden strategy that is slowly being revealed.
If i had to choose to have dinner between Trump and James, without hesitation i would choose Mr Trump over James. Not the least because his reputation was demolished by a successful slander campaign thanks to the heavily sponsored media. But that is another story that has many hidden layers that few know about.
Finally i wonder if "dear Rory and Arlindo" fell for all the smart arguments laid out by James in his letter to them (shared above). I hope, to be fair to their colleague teacher, they asked to hear Stan's arguments and version of the story. It must be hard to remain "loyal" to one's teacher and totally objective and open to the situation at hand. I wish them good luck in discriminating the false from the real...
There are people who are very smart but that is not at all a sure sign of wisdom and compassion, usually the contrary...I would say beware of smart people. Some of the smartest people have led the world into the current chaos through long-planned hidden strategy that is slowly being revealed.
If i had to choose to have dinner between Trump and James, without hesitation i would choose Mr Trump over James. Not the least because his reputation was demolished by a successful slander campaign thanks to the heavily sponsored media. But that is another story that has many hidden layers that few know about.
Finally i wonder if "dear Rory and Arlindo" fell for all the smart arguments laid out by James in his letter to them (shared above). I hope, to be fair to their colleague teacher, they asked to hear Stan's arguments and version of the story. It must be hard to remain "loyal" to one's teacher and totally objective and open to the situation at hand. I wish them good luck in discriminating the false from the real...
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
TheSpare
()
Date: March 19, 2021 09:53PM
@ Dis-illusioned. That was a hell of a perceptive post !
These contradictions baffle me. What is his teaching worth, if it only holds up to be true as long as you side with him, glorify him, and do and think exactly what he wants you to?
But something has gone wrong. Something doesn’t add up. Something falls short in his own assimilation of what he says is a pure and complete teaching.
There is something not aligned in him, and he goes to great lengths to hide that - to the point of tearing apart anyone who does see it, and speak about it
Denial and projection. you can never know if and when it will catch you out. Hence the saying, " Constant vigilance is the price of freedom". James would say " until it isn`t " and that`s his problem in a nutshell. He thinks he is perfect. why do they both have anger issues, I wonder ?
@Valma.
You conspiracy theorist you ... Lol ...
As for `did Rory or Arlindo ask for Stan`s arguments and version` ? One did and One didn`t. it`s no problem as both of them are good guys for sure. I chose not to contact them myself because one of them is seriously ill. who needs this kind of hassle !
ps I would like to see James and Trump locked in a room to share dinner for how long ? let`s see ...about five years ? Lol ...
These contradictions baffle me. What is his teaching worth, if it only holds up to be true as long as you side with him, glorify him, and do and think exactly what he wants you to?
But something has gone wrong. Something doesn’t add up. Something falls short in his own assimilation of what he says is a pure and complete teaching.
There is something not aligned in him, and he goes to great lengths to hide that - to the point of tearing apart anyone who does see it, and speak about it
Denial and projection. you can never know if and when it will catch you out. Hence the saying, " Constant vigilance is the price of freedom". James would say " until it isn`t " and that`s his problem in a nutshell. He thinks he is perfect. why do they both have anger issues, I wonder ?
@Valma.
You conspiracy theorist you ... Lol ...
As for `did Rory or Arlindo ask for Stan`s arguments and version` ? One did and One didn`t. it`s no problem as both of them are good guys for sure. I chose not to contact them myself because one of them is seriously ill. who needs this kind of hassle !
ps I would like to see James and Trump locked in a room to share dinner for how long ? let`s see ...about five years ? Lol ...
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by:
Dis-illusioned
()
Date: March 19, 2021 11:04PM
Quote
The Spare
Denial and projection. you can never know if and when it will catch you out. Hence the saying, " Constant vigilance is the price of freedom". James would say " until it isn`t " and that`s his problem in a nutshell. He thinks he is perfect. why do they both have anger issues, I wonder ?
You nailed it! Thank you!
You’ve given me the missing piece of the puzzle. I’ve kept asking myself the one key question:
WHY?
Believing that you’re untouchable and unaccountable and above serious and deep accountability or correction, appears to be what has led to this sad state of affairs with James.
My theory: His mother more than likely either adored him to the point of finding no fault at all, or didn’t love and adore him - nor pay the kind of attention that every child needs. I would put money on it, that that’s the root of it.
The unkind and incongruous ways of speaking and attacking and blaming and switching that James at times does - are classic displays of denial and projection, just as you’ve said Stan. It looked like it to me, but I couldn’t match that up with what I believed of him, as my teacher.
Now, I would even go so far as to say, there are signs of a narcissist. (I know it’s been said before.)
I think James is clever/crafty enough to be able to play the part of a loving person, but why does it not hold up to the true test of time? Why is his “love” so fickle?
Is it because an evolved indifference and neutrality and diplomacy, as he claims?
I would say not.
I see it as a lack of something, not a talent or skill or superior ability - as he believes.
The “love” isn’t real. It’s a ploy to milk the love that’s seemingly absent and even, unknown to him.
The closest someone who isn’t in touch with love, compassion, heart etc can get to it - is through adoration and elevation. (And abuse - very often of a sexual nature.)
James is driven by the need to be elevated, venerated and held in high esteem.
Sundari probably is too, although I’ve not had enough first-hand experience of her, to know that for certain - although it certainly comes through in the reports you’ve given.
Hence the anger outbursts. It all makes so much simple sense now. To put it to bed, I wanted to know the underlying cause of what “went wrong” and why I got caught up in it. It suddenly seems clear, and obvious.
I genuinely feel sorry/sad, for him.
How must it be to be so smart, and to know and understand so much, but to be bereft of love.
You can spiritualise that away all you want - it’s an empty place to find oneself.
———————————————————————-
I’m delightfully amused by some of your comments to Valma. I hope there’s no offence taken over my views on Trump. I can’t help having them, but they’re only an opinion. It matters not a smidgeon to me, what anyone else thinks of him. I have so little insight or wish to know.
Sorry to hear about the other teacher. I know who you mean and I’d forgotten that factor.
————————————————————-
I’d like to add, that I’ve felt fairly uncomfortable engaging in this forum at times, because I know that I’m prone to speaking my mind and to being emotional. I can see how things here can sometimes come across....badly let’s say.
But I also know that I can see often what’s there (a somewhat discriminating mind), and I love the truth. (Which truth?)
These elements didn’t produce the desired result in terms of Vedanta. But perhaps I just landed up with the “wrong” teacher. And once things have run their course, nee clarity will unfold. I hope so.
I’ve indulged in some pontificating about James on this forum, because it serves me. I don’t really like that, if it doesn’t serve the greater good. I don’t want to just say things to harm and destroy. I want to clear things up for myself, and I want to see some sort of positive outcome.
Right now I feel that this conversation has served me. And I would really be grateful and happy, if it somehow serves the greater good.
Thanks Stan
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2021 11:20PM by Dis-illusioned.
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