I`m just writing this short message as a test because I can`t seem to post my intended post due to a database problem with this site. If this message appears, i`ll ask someone to put up my next post on my behalf. sorry about the complication.

Hey, Spare, this has happened to me when I've posted messages with one or more of be URLs.

The way I got around it was:

Copy what I want to post and remove it using Cntrl X

Type a single character into the window and click Post Message.

This causes Phorum the CEI message board software to publish an otherwise blank post with your single character at the top.

Click Edit

After opening Edit, do Cntrl V to post your message with it's URLs and then do SAVE

That should 'trick' Phorum into publishing your material.

If this doesn't work, PM me.

Let me know how it goes!

C

Happy to post on your behalf if that would help.

sThe Sundari `flare up`. her`s, not mine ... I was at the receiving end of course...
James Swartz wrote ...

Hi Stan,
I agree with you, completely. I thought it was a very bad letter. She has no business saying you are a jnani and that you have served ShiningWorld
well...which is true...and then summarily dismissing you. She would only do this to avoid the feeling of guilt that would come up when she communicated with you. I'm debating whether or not to have a go at her but she won't see it that way because she is in denial. It only works to reveal unpleasant dharma violations when a person is obviously conflicted by them. It is the only weakness that I can see but it is a glaring weakness to say the least.
She was the runt of the litter...10 siblings...and all the shit came down to her so there is a spring of unresolved anger that explodes in certain situations. Plus, I don't think she ever knowingly broke a rule large or small in her life, so she doesn't have tolerance for rule breakers. The whole thing is her issue. And when she is not well...she has chronic pain...even small things anger her. She had no business sticking her nose in the FB thing in the first place because she has such a strong dislike towards it. She can't see that by praising xxxxx she made it easy get a swelled head. Anyway, it is what it is. We will see what comes. She is loved and respected by many because she is doing good work in the right spirit but dare to not dot your 'i's and cross your 't's' or not reply to her emails and look out. ?
Much love, James


From: stan To: isabella viglietti
Hi Sundari,
I know you told me not to contact you and I have respected your wish and will continue to do so. however, I have read the long satsang between you, James and xxxxx, that you copied me.
I strongly disagree with some of the comments you made . To be brief, I do not give you permission to refer to me by name or implication if you intend to put the satsang on the Shiningworld website. I would also request that you don`t refer to Axxa by name. I don`t think it would be fair to her.
As a short aside, I find your idea that I think of you as James` wife, as opposed to thinking of him as Isvara, quite extraordinary. I have never thought such a thing.... I was `gob-smacked` when I read that. Anyway, I don`t want to belabour the point or any others. you have set your
mind about your attitude towards me and there is nothing I can do to change it. Wishing you much peace,
Stan.

James Swartz
Yes, I just spoke with her and she has that whole tendency in perspective now. The whole thing was good for our relationship too, cleared up 90% of the 10% downside. She is able to actually objectively explain the subconscious fear behind the tendency to be so blunt. The point is that she was suffering from it because that kind of 'honesty' is a violation of the dharma of right speech. A few rare people like to hear the bad news but she needs to not write until the emotion is gone and then edit for trigger words whose implied meanings might create emotions. You need a lot of wiggle room when you deliver bad news so it doesn't come back on you. I basically get the person to beg me to expose the ego and then I do it with kid gloves unless I really want them out of my life, which is almost never. Plus, a person needs to understand that hearsay is not evidence and build one's case on first hand investigation. I'm glad everything resolved amicably.

Stan wrote:
Hi James,
Thank you for taking the time to go over that Sundari spat with my good self. Not that it feels like we were talking about Sundari or any other person really. As I see it, Isvara just wanted a bit of a `house tidy` and decided to remove some general ignorance.
You said at the bottom of your email ....
" I don't tell anybody what to do. So you will have to decide for yourself whether or not you want to reply. If you want to write you might send her a one liner asking if she was writing to start a dialog or what. If not, let it be. "
I decided to take the bull by the horns and write to her. i`d got nothing to lose and maybe Isvara would grease a few wheels in a situation it created anyway !
I wrote, and got a lovely email back from her. we`re happy bunnies again i`m very pleased about that and praise Isvara for `greasing the squeeky wheels`, yet again.
I enclose my mail to Sundari and her reply to me below.

Hi Sundari,
I`m sorry I didn`t reply to you quickly but i`ve been off the internet until yesterday. I also didn`t want to reply without being clear about what you were telling me. You`ll be pleased to hear that i`ve no intention of re-hashing, point by point, all of what has been said in our "little jiva skirmish". there really is no need is there ?

You really needn`t have apologized to me though, for `offending me and causing me distress` . I really appreciate your saying that but, at no point did I think in that way. i`m not thin skinned and I surely know you well enough to know that you would never knowingly offend and distress anyone.
So,when you said to me..and james, in one of your mails, .. " nobody ever listens to me", and "you see James as Isvara but, you see me as a person", I knew that really, it wasn`t about me at all. That was so way off the mark that I couldn`t take it seriously.
I figured you were having a `bad hair day` re some samskaras acting up and some of the things I said consequently had a bit of a flippant side to them....my added attempts at levity certainly bombed for good measure !
I apologize for that Sundari. I failed to take in account that you were likely to be coming from a position of pain and in the moment.
As you say...`all part of Nididhysana`. We can say that `Nididhysana is just an object in me` but what tricky ground that is ! As you and Ramji often say, "The jiva never stops learning". More lessons learned...may they never stop !

Sundari`s reply ...
" Thanks for your lovely email Stan, much appreciated. Yes, indeed, nididhysana is an object known to me – but, it’s always a both/and, is it not, when dealing with pesky Maya! Unless one purifies the remaining jiva stuff, as much as one knows one is not the jiva or its ‘stuff’, well, situations can still arise that sideswipe the mind momentarily blocking access to the Knowledge. I too have no desire to rehash what happened, but suffice to say, the circumstances were perfect for Isvara to launch just such a Causal body ‘attack’!
I was not in pain unless you are referring to physical pain, which has been plaguing me and remains a constant in my life. I am going in for another neck operation this Friday. Darn bodies cause so much hassle! The psychological pain came from the anger outburst itself because it caused injury to you and of course ‘me’. Your responses were quite cutting as can be expected.
I chose to retreat from further contact, but also faced the deeper issue, which is what the anger was actually about. No contact with anyone is ever about the 'other', as we well know. And there it was, protecting the stupid jiva, what else.
So pathetic. It is especially galling when we know only too well that there is only one jiva and we all share it, what possible good can come from any reaction to anything that emerges from Maya! Ah well. Thankfully, the knowledge dispatches such Maya nonsense very quickly and may it never return to bite again!
It is not easy navigating in a world that is and isn’t. But, hey, at least we can have a laugh about it!
Thank you for your kind words, it makes me happy that we are 'back on track' as I have always cared very much for you.
Much love, Sundari "

From: James Swartz to Stan
Hi Stan,
I think she's had a real change of heart but is new to making amends so her language is a bit wooden and clumsy. I didn't put her up to it. I don't use power or manipulate her in any way. I let her do exactly what she wants. I have disliked her busy body approach from the very first but she had a nice romantic fortress of rationalizations to support it. Over the years I tried a few times get her to look at it differently but it didn't work. Slowly, however, the downside became apparent to her and she finally acknowledged that she was suffering from it. Whew! At one point her daughter to whom she is very attached went at her like an avenging angel and it really set her back on her heels.

Then I used this event to get her to see that she lacked emotional control, upasana yoga, and that her karma yoga was incomplete, that she didn't consecrate her actions to the Lord before she spoke to you. So she made a vow, which she will undoubtedly keep, to purify that tendency. It is actually a very small part of her personality but it is a glaring blemish because she is such an exceptional person by God's grace.
I think she thought that because she knew who she is she deserved the same treatment that I receive from people. But she isn't me. People are wary of her because of this tendency although they admire her a lot. And I don't think she realized that I have accomplished so much because I am a very diplomatic person.
I know people's downsides but I ignore the downside and relate to their positive qualities. It may surprise you to know that I don't want to know about people's stuff, including hers. She treats me like a king so I don't have any reason to psychoanalyze her to her face. Besides, there is only one ego and only one solution so all the pysychological stuff is a waste of time.
I don't think the 'honesty' was referring to you. I think she was trying to be transparent. ? I didn't make a point of it with her but I think your crime was that you didn't reply to some of her emails, which she took as a sign of disrespect. But she had no business sticking her nose in Facebook in the first place because she hated the idea of Facebook from the getgo. It was your baby and she should have kept out of it.
I don't tell anybody what to do. So you will have to decide for yourself whether or not you want to reply. If you want to write you might send her a one liner asking if she was writing to start a dialog or what. If not, let it be.
Much love, James.

Stan wrote:
Hi James, I got this email from Sundari today. I`ve been out most of the day so I havn`t replied yet.
"Dear Stan, I would like to clear things with you, please lend me your ear. What transpired recently in our little jiva skirmish has caused me pause and brought home an important takeaway from Isvara. Ramji has long tried to guide me in dealing with my ‘honesty’ vasana, which makes this jiva way too straightforward and combative when it would serve her well to retreat and shut up. Honesty has its place but its delivery is all important, I know this.
As you know, Ramji has grown SW and managed all the egos that come and go on it because he is the essence of diplomacy; it has not been easy for me to take a leaf from his book, but, I have made a sankalpa to do just that. I am sick of and do not enjoy the mind this vasana creates. It does not serve me or anyone to use honesty to make a point or, to protect SW or my(not)self.
Injury of any kind causes me way more distress than my honesty does its recipient, I am sure. Underneath the honesty is just that – protectionism. Of course, there is nothing to protect because there is only one ego, and everyone shares it – until they don’t. As Ramji says, one problem, one solution. Such a great slogan. Also the truth.

So, to keep things short, please know that I humbly understand what needs to be understood regarding this jiva program, all part of nididhysana. Maya does not make perfect jivas, so what! I have already apologized for getting angry with you regarding xxxxx multiple times, accept my apologies for any other way I have offended you or caused you distress.
I still feel the same about you, you are a great guy, a huge help to Ramji and SW. Thank you and bless you."

I feel like I went the extra mile with her and an extra one after that ! I thought it was all over but she couldn`t help but stab me in the back when her conditioning took over again. What`s that saying ? no good deed goes unpunished ? Lol ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2021 10:50PM by TheSpare.

Thanks for your help corboy ! I should get a similar post problem sorted out properly next time. ie get rid of that single character in the beginning.
And thank you Dis-illusioned for offering to try and post on my behalf. :-)

The Spare

No problem, and any time.

Corboy’s post must have overlapped with mine, in terms of timing. I hadn’t seen his suggestion - which clearly worked well.

It’s a pity that posts can’t be deleted on here, but I suppose there’s a reason why.

As for what you’ve posted - my oh my....quite a dog’s breakfast, in my view.

I never really warmed to Sundari, but I don’t know her as such. I only know her strong views on diet and health (which I disagree with, but would never be so one sided about, with regards to all others.)

Reading through what you’ve posted - man,oh, man.... if the drama and the nonsense is no different for them than it is for anyone else (which is clearly so) then what’s the point really?

If these vasanas continue to trip everyone up, equally - then what’s the big deal with all this elevating of anyone, or of any practice or understanding of truth. The Truth stands. The living out of it, is never going to be any different, if the one jiva is simply that (or this, as you’ve portrayed.)

The other thing that comes to my attention, is that James is certainly not as diplomatic and kid-gloved as he likes to think he is. I know for sure, from the way that he behaved with me. He prides himself for his “apology” to me, after he indiscriminately shot his mouth off. When I corrected him, he believes he apologised. What he “apologised” for, was for ever believing that Vedanta was “for me” as he put it.

His apology wasn’t one of “shucks I shouldn’t have said what I said because I was out of line to have accusesed you of being a prostitute and of saying that you should make a good go of it, and earn enough to buy yourself a really smart campervan etc”, but rather “sorry I said that because I wouldn’t have said it if I had known that you were unqualified for Vedanta, (and therefore that your life is none of my business.)”

I see this so-called “diplomacy” as wily craftiness and manipulation, if it is only operative when the objectives of the diplomat are being served.

If it ultimately leads to a really vindictive and coarse lashing, when things don’t go according to the wishes of the diplomat, then it’s simply falsity and manipulation.

This is how I read it from the perspective of where I stand. I’m assuming that you’ve posted what you have, to demonstrate that the same sort of thing happened with you, and was happening “behind the scenes” all along - one way or another.

I can’t admire that. I can’t see that as “Enlightened” or spiritual - nor as something that I would want to be part of.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2021 03:17AM by Dis-illusioned.

The Spare

No problem, and any time.

Corboy’s post must have overlapped with mine, in terms of timing. I hadn’t seen his suggestion - which clearly worked well.

It’s a pity that posts can’t be deleted on here, but I suppose there’s a reason why.

As for what you’ve posted - my oh my....quite a dog’s breakfast, in my view.

I never really warmed to Sundari, but I don’t know her as such. I only know her strong views on diet and health (which I disagree with, but would never be so one sided about, with regards to all others.)

Reading through what you’ve posted - man,oh, man.... if the drama and the nonsense is no different for them than it is for anyone else (which is clearly so) then what’s the point really?

If these vasanas continue to trip everyone up, equally - then what’s the big deal with all this elevating of anyone, or of any practice, teaching or understanding of truth. How is this Vedanta according to James, any different to any of the other multitude of teachings and teachers, that do the rounds.

The Truth stands.

But it seems that the living out of it, is never going to be any different, for any one. If the one jiva is simply that (or this, as you’ve portrayed) and if a so-called teacher like James falls prey to the same dramas that we all do, one way or another, what’s the big deal about any of it?

The other thing that comes to my attention, is that James is certainly not as diplomatic and kid-gloved as he likes to think he is.

I know that for certain, from the way that he behaved with me.

He prides himself on his “apology” to me, after he indiscriminately shot his mouth off.
When I corrected the fact with him, he maintains that he apologised for what he had said. What he “apologised” for, was for ever believing that Vedanta was “for me” as he put it.

His apology wasn’t one of “oh shucks I shouldn’t have said what I said because I was out of line to have accusesed you of being a prostitute and of saying that you should make a really good go of it, and earn enough to buy yourself a really smart campervan etc - before your looks fade”, but rather “sorry I said that because I wouldn’t have said it if I had known that you were unqualified for Vedanta, (and therefore that your life is none of my business.)”

I see this so-called “diplomacy” as wily craftiness and manipulation, if it is only operative when the objectives of the diplomat are being served.

If it ultimately leads to a really vindictive and coarse lashing, when things don’t go according to the wishes of the diplomat, then it’s simply falsity and manipulation.

This is how I read it from the perspective of where I stand. I’m assuming that you’ve posted what you have, to demonstrate that the same sort of thing happened with you, and was happening “behind the scenes” all along - one way or another.

I can’t admire that. I can’t see that as “Enlightened” or spiritual - nor as something that I would want to be part of.

[quote-"SWartz"]
> I can’t admire that. I can’t see that as
> “Enlightened” or spiritual - nor as something that
> I would want to be part of. And anyhow, who cares if a person is enlighteneed

[/quote]


You and you wife seem to. aLL YOU SEEM TO DO, IS THRHOUGH students.

OMG, unbelievable. I went to post a post, and the whole thing has disappeared. It was possiblly the best popcorn one yet. OhI cant be bothered doing it again. will post later. Im away to bed, lol.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2021 10:14AM by earthquake.

I'm not sure what happened with that last post. Most of it disappeared as I Was posting, and the editing was crap, haha. Anyhow, I'll repeat much of it now, but perhaps a bit more diplomatically.

Disillusioned, Ill just refer to you as DI for short, if that's ok. Quicker to type haha. You bring up really important points. I'll show some inner workings of Swartz that is really relevant to control of students, giving opportunity to abuse.

Quote
Dis-illusioned
>
> Reading through what you’ve posted - man,oh,
> man.... if the drama and the nonsense is no
> different for them than it is for anyone else
> (which is clearly so) then what’s the point
> really?

That is a really good point. And it's about the famous saying, a gurus feet are made of clay. Teachers are ordinary people, and its before enlightenment chop wood carry water, after enlightenment chop wood carry water. In traditional Vedanta the external world remains the same. It's one's perception that changes, and this changes the experience. For example, it may seem on the outside to others that this thing with myself and SWartz causes me unrest. It doesn't at all. Quite the opposite in fact. There is no problem with karma, at all. The enlightened person is more prone to action, rather than reaction. Reaction is the knee-jerk stuff. Look at Swartz's reaction to TheSpares political views. I'll mention something about that in a second. But to answer what you're pointing out, it is that peace is not outside. Initially it is 'inside'. But really, peace is what one is. This means that the person can be in the middle of a hell-hole, but they will be at peace anyhow. The difference is that most people will try to run from drama or problems, the enlightened person doesnt need to do that. Drama and problems are the same. Since this is so, the enlightened person will not judge. In my lineage we don't do that. I've witnessed this non-judgemental attitude first hand. SWartz however, is never done judging others. And that is telling.

Before I forget, and this is a general point. The SWartz' have put down Trump, and they promote the democratic party. They have also expelled one of the most important people they've ever had, over his political views. Shiningworld members that support the republican party and Trump (who represents them), are now afraid that their political views are known. This is one half of democracy we are talking about. To try to use spiritual teachings, and to actually carry out exile if you dont agree, is horrendous. The Shiningworld members that support the republican party and Trump, have a moral right to do so if they choose. However, just like Jews were afraid to be open about their religion in world war two, so to are Shiningworld members in regard to politics. . That is a fact. The Swartz are spiritual nazis.

To the Shiningworld members reading this... You are in an organisation in which going into a new reltionship is frowned upon. You're in a group in which the head teachers are always right, in all things in life. And you better not challenge them. You are in a group in which, in 2021, you are afraid to be open about your political views. What is it going to take for you to realise that you are being controlled and manipulated? Over the last few days i've spoken with 5 ex-shiningworld people. I am the 6. When we were in Shiningworld we blindly supported the SWartz. All of us did. It is only when we got threw out that their control on us faded, and we began to see them for what they are. Look at the Shiningworld accounts that come on here. Look at what they say. They blindly follow Swartz, refuse to look at the evidence of the SWartz own words. That is how way Swartz operate in regard to being a cult. Rick Ross, this forum owner, one of the worlds foremost experts in Cults, has 10 points that are signs of a potentially unsafe group or leader. I've just looked at them again. I can prove with digital evidence that SWartz ticks 8 of those. 8 out of 10. Shiningworld members, those that have chosen their legal and democratic right to support Trump... you're afraid to let that be known. Are you happy being in that place, of fear and control? Is that the freedom that they are offering? I can honeslty tell you, that the world is much brighter outside of Shiningworld. And I Will explain directly below why this is the case.

Quote
Dis-illusioned
>
> If these vasanas continue to trip everyone up,
> equally - then what’s the big deal with all this
> elevating of anyone, or of any practice, teaching
> or understanding of truth. How is this Vedanta
> according to James, any different to any of the
> other multitude of teachings and teachers, that do
> the rounds.
>
> The Truth stands.

That is a really good point. The short answer is that with the correct teachings, vasanas wont trip the person up. Swami Dayananda taught a very prominent Swami something once. It is a one sentence teaching. The Swami was in training then, and was having challenges, but this one sentence changed everything. Years later, the Swami is a global name now. He was my Guru for a time (even though Shiningworld come on here and refer to him saying he wasn't, I have it in email from him, himself agreeing to be my guru - little signal to Swartz' that im happy to also reveal those screenshots to prove you once again lie). I had challenges at one point in particular, and the Swami in turn taught it to me. And it changed everything. One of three pivotal teachings. It is: Why are you bothered about the mind? It doesnt affect you. In traditional Vedanta we do not do this vasanaa busting crap. We are taught in such a way that conditioning takes care of itself. And it doesnt play out, as we dont give it any attention. However, if you carry on thinking that it does or can, then it will. Enter Shiningworld teachings...

When I was with Shiningworld I only studied what JAmes SWartz said, and his wife. I did not expose myself to any other teachers in the world. For 8 year solid. There was a time that I went to prison, for 14 months. Imagine what a 14 month retreat only Studying your teachers material, would be like. So, yes, Im fairly confident that I understand what Swartz teaches. I also understand what my lineage now teaches. And, I understand the differences, and from a teachers perspective the impacts of those. There is no point even saying that the teachings are the same unless you have been a teacher in both, because reading a few teachings from one or two other teachers is not verifying that they are the same. I'm going to explain what is different, and why this is disastrous for anyone wanting freedom in Shiningworld. And I'll explain why Swartz has done this.

There is too much focus on vasanas, karma yoga & gunas in what Swartz teaches. Asi said, to focus on needing to sort vasanasa reinforces that they can impact you, and this is the opposite you meant to be taught that nothing can impact you. It's my opinion (and I am researching this James Swartz), that Swartz was never gave permission to teach by Swami Chinmayanda. The training was no proper that Swartz had, because he isn't teaching according to our tradition. I look at what he teaches and he leaves out adhyaropa apavada. This is deliberately using dualistic teachings to set the stage, then take them away. You cannot own the knowledge that you are not impacted by conditioning if you are also trying to sort out 'your' conditioning. It is preposterous. What it will do is keep you suffering. That is, keep you needing James SWartz. Ker-ching!

But if this is the case, why is there so many good words about what he teaches? The reason is because of his focus on two other teachings. The next one is the gunas. He had a lot of pride in this video release on Guna management. Saying there has never been something to extensive in that topic taught. Eh, any idea why Swartz? Do you think that every teacher before you forgot about them? Hardly. While they are taught, they are not a focus. Again, this is maya karanam, the effect of maya. It is samsara, dualistc teachings. And of course, if you are managing your conditioning, emotions, vasanas/gunas, then you are reinforcing that you a limited being. That is NOT freedom. And yes, it will keep you tied to the teacher, as you begin to have a feel good with this teaching, and go all starry eyed. Life seems to be sorting itself out. it's only an experence though, and it will end. So you keep needing the teaching and the teacher. Kar-ching!

I've saved the best for last. Karma Yoga. A part of me is sick hearing Shiningworld drone on about it. It is preparation. When sadhana, actual teachings begin you are no longer a karma yogi, you are a jnana yogi. Swartz keeps getting his students, even so called enlightened ones, to identify as a karma yogi, and carry on with karma yoga. There are only two karma yogis in our teachings that attained enlightenment. It is not by karma yoga that it happens. It manages life though, and things start to go smooth. For a time. So, once again, we are starry eyed to Swartz. Swami Paramarthananda is one of the most prominent global teachers. He is a teacher in my lineage, as he took sannyas with Swami Dayananda. In Swami Paramarthananda's commentary on Mandukya, I think it is in chapter 3, he teaches that karma yoga is jiva/jagat/Isvara. Basically, I am a limited being and there is God. That is a seperation. It is called triangular format. Then there is binary. Shiningworld teachings generally stop here. They will not agree but I will explain why. When you carry on using dualistic teachings like vasana & guna control and karma yoga, in teachings that are meant to be advaita, you diluted the potency of it all. So generally the student stays in binary. This is not enlightenment. Only if the person is already evolved will the teachings work in this way. TheSpare is an example (this is my opinion). Another example is a current teacher, Rory. And I know of another. However, what is only of interest to traditional vedanta is the most expedient way for everyone. Not a chosen few.

So there is binary, then there is advaita. From my interactions on here with Shiningworld I can see from the words used that even though they claim freedom, it is not what they think. We have a very high standard. And it's shown in the words used, the way they are used. Which is why the tradition is oral. Most importantly is that SWami Paramarthananda teaches in chapter 3 that if you carry on with karma yoga, then you will stay in samsara! You will not attain enlightenment. that REALLY needs to sink in. Go check for yourselves (Shingingworld). Swartz is teaching yet another teaching that will stop you being free. I have witnessed first hand how people in advanced sadhana still use this karma yoga thing. We are taught by Shankaracharya, that we are to leave karma kanda behind. The entire portion on karma must only be used to cross the ocean of samsara he says, like a boat. When we reach the other shore we must leave it behind and carry on on foot. Go read it for yourself, Shiningworld.

So, we have certain teachings that will make you feel good at times, and seem to sort out life. But it keeps you in samsara. Needy, limited. And it keeps you needing Swartz. Ker-ching! If he's reading this, I invite him to debate with me in email. Any of his groupies reading this, let him know. As long as he knows that our emails will be published word for word.

He is also regard as a philosopher in Vedanta. And that is in fact an insult. One of the most famous Vedanta teachers in the world says that his teachings might lead someone to the Upanishads! This is even though he claims to teach them. Why is this said about him? Because it is not the material that is taught, it is the WAY that it is taught that makes it traditional Vedanta. And he is not teaching that. Since he is not teaching that, he is teaching modern, neo vedanta. The very group he tried to put down. He also attacks peoples like me, effectively saying I am a sexual predator, and that I abuse students by taking cash. It's all deflection, and is in fact hat he is guilty off. James, you have been taking advantage of your students for years financially. You need to publish your financial records for the last three years. I know that you have been up to no good. His students reading this, let him know i'm demanding both him and I release our financual records. Its time to put your money where youe mouth is SWartz. Lets back up what we are saying. You can email me about this also.

The last thing is that he says that Vedanta is the science of consciousness. No, it is not! Vedanta is not science. We are taught not to teach that. Science is something that is a matter of debate, and Vedanta is not. Science is a current working hypothesis that changes. Vedanta is not. Science is a dualistic discipline. Vedanta is not.

Quote
Dis-illusioned
>
> But it seems that the living out of it, is never
> going to be any different, for any one. If the one
> jiva is simply that (or this, as you’ve portrayed)
> and if a so-called teacher like James falls prey
> to the same dramas that we all do, one way or
> another, what’s the big deal about any of it?

The Swartz' seem to thnk they can tell if a person is not enlightened. In actual Vedanta it is taught that that is extremely hard to know. The fruit of Vedanta is the ability to go with the flow. Not go with my preference of what the flow is, but go with whatever the heck is going on, or down. Whatever, anything. It's why i've used things like this with myself and the Swartz' as teaching examples for my students, to see my private way of being and thoughts about such things. A teacher, or even an enlightened person, is a person. Just because they have a title, doesnt mean they are any better than another. In fact, to think so would not be enlightenment. That reminds me...


Here is James Swartz latest satsang (https://www.shiningworld.com/the-land-is-flooded/)

Quote
Swartz Satsang
Dear James

I have never spoken face to face to a person who is a true spiritual master let alone to someone of your caliber;

for god's sake man, get a grip. You need to take a reality check, and consider stop posting this self-glorification crap. You are looking like a fool, do you know that? Was this even wrote to you? I dont believe it was. I think you made that up yourself. Will you post the dated email that shows this was really sent? If you do I will apologise to you here on the forum. If you dont, well, you are a liar making up what you think are grand acclaims, but in reality not so. The position of traditional vedanta teachers is that we would never post such Rubbish. If a student ever said that to me, I just shrug. As I do if they judge me. We take neither praise nor criticism. How do you not know this? Where you never taught this basic rule in regard to teaching. You are nor a proper teacher of traditional Vedanta. If you disagree, lets take it to email. We can put forward our views, and also evidence. There must also be evidence. Not simply our own words.

Quote
Dis-illusioned
>
> He prides himself on his “apology” to me, after he
> indiscriminately shot his mouth off.
> When I corrected the fact with him, he maintains
> that he apologised for what he had said. What he
> “apologised” for, was for ever believing that
> Vedanta was “for me” as he put it.

What he said doesnt even make sense. How would be know whether Vedanta is for you or not? It is a simple matter of going to another teacher. When I was about to leave Shiningworld, he keeps pestering me with emails. He told me that it is a lonely world out here without God. So I left. Joined my lineage, and became a teacher. Shows what he knows. He also ordered me to stop teaching Vedanta. 10 days later my lineage sent me an email from the Ashram, saying I have permission to carry on teaching. He doesn't seem to actually know a lot of things in regard to Vedanta at all. And, for someone who has these incredible resources, he seems to have done jack shit in regard to harming me. The opposite has occurred, lol. He doesnt speak for Vedanta. No-one speaks for Vedanta.

Quote
Dis-illusioned
>
> His apology wasn’t one of “oh shucks I shouldn’t
> have said what I said because I was out of line to
> have accusesed you of being a prostitute and of
> saying that you should make a really good go of
> it, and earn enough to buy yourself a really smart
> campervan etc - before your looks fade”, but
> rather “sorry I said that because I wouldn’t have
> said it if I had known that you were unqualified
> for Vedanta, (and therefore that your life is none
> of my business.)”

I'm going to say something, and I hope it doesnt offend. To me it doesnt seem that it was an accusation as such. I'm sensing that he got a kick out of the idea. Which of course a sexual deviant would. Why would you tell your student to br a prostitute? What the f*** is that about!! If he likes the idea of his students being prostitutes, perhaps he should start with his wife, instead of students that come to him for help. Yes, I hope he reads that, I hope both of them do. Karma blowback Isabella, remember what you told Stan?

Anyhow, I've said before here, and also to Traveller and To Heather, that I don't know if what she says happened, as I was not there. I dont mean any offence. I don't take a view it didnt happen either. I've always said that I recoqnise James in the book, I believe she was close to him. However, and this is a salient point...

Here we have a student , Disillusioned (at that time), who has came to him out of a need, and the hope he helps her (there is a certain vulnerability there, as is for us all who trust a teacher). You went to him in trust DI, and he suggested that you sell your body for sex. That you commit act of prostitution, some of which related activites are illegal. That charachteristic that he showed you is very close to what HEather has been accusing him of. I mean, lets look at it DI. Another time and place, how far is it along, suggesting it to a student, and actually organising it? I mean, he is obviously fine with the idea of you doing it.

If I am honest, I have noticed that the more that this topic is live, and the more that comes out, there are things that are moving closer to supporting that SWartz would be like the way Heather says happened. You see, because of my background, I'm always reluctant when someone is accused of that. I've saw people wrongly accussed commit suicide in jail. I would never want anyone to be accused of that wrongly. So, I'm always inclined to want to look at what is being said, and all other evidence.


And, in that context, I've been told that there is other major stuff about James Swartz. I don't know what, and I've asked to be out in touch with the people, though I am unsure if that will happen. There is definitely more skeletons in his closet. I am wondering if this is more sexual accusations... hmmmm... I will do my best to find out. I've just got another idea actually...

Earthquake

It’s unfortunate that posts can’t be deleted yes. I double-posted my previous response to The Spare, but can’t get rid of the first one. And yours sounded - “unusual” - too :)


——————————————————————————————————————————


Yes to what you say about the vasana/ guna / karma yoga teaching being dualistic and a trap - to anyone who has seen the freedom of the Self.
Exactly that. I said what I said (above) because I don’t get what Sundari was on about, in her dispute with Stan. The whole drama sounds like what I used to hear in Christianity, but the sinner self still being at war with the person who is “in Christ.”

That isn’t a teaching of freedom. That is bondage. And it negates the reality of the Self - if once the light has risen, there is still this war against the flesh (or the mind, as Sundari puts it.)

And just to add - I got the same sense when I read James latest satsang post, lauding him. There was no substance or point to posting that satsang, other than to make a public declaration of his supposed glorification. The same self-investment and arrogance again. It matches Sundari’s upset with The Spare, over esteeming James but not her, to the same degree.

Why all this posturing and title-seeking and boasting and bickering over right and wrong and being magnificently diplomatic and every other self-aggrandising hot air that I’ve heard so many times from him/them.

Why, if the Self is known as all...?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2021 07:59PM by Dis-illusioned.