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Disgusted by news about the Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche sexual abuse of Shambhala community members - and concerned my teacher may whitewash it. self.Buddhism

Submitted 1 day ago by RustGal

I study with a Buddhist teacher who had some Shambhala training (I am not in that lineage, he teaches from more than one lineage). He's always had good things to say about Chogyam Trungpa, and has written off the many stories of drunken, inappropriate conduct as "crazy wisdom to meet people where they are." I think that is BS and I'm deeply conflicted with having a "teacher" anyway, so I have no desire to push myself to also accept/enable/explain in order to resolve cognitive dissonance, etc.. But it's never been an issue before.

"Teacher" has photos of the Sakyong around his space. If he brushes this off as "crazy wisdom reaching out to meet people in their own craziness" I am out of there. I kind of dread hearing his thoughts on this, and I also kind of want to hear them right now too.

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[–]lingua42tibetan 6 points 23 hours ago
Speaking as a practitioner in a Tibetan lineage with indirect connections to Shambhala... I hear you, and it's worth being careful.

One really helpful concept is that of "yana confusion"--the idea that people get in trouble because they confuse bits of Sutrayana vs. Vajrayana, or Hinayana* vs. Mahayana vs. Vajrayana. Notably, I think a lot of people get mixed up about the concept of guru/lama in Tantra vs. a more general teacher as in Sutra or Tantra.

If you have a guru-disciple relationship with someone, you're bound by samaya. This don't stop you from dissociating from them if they do bad things, but it does make some things more complicated.

If you don't have a tantric samaya with respect to someone, you have no obligations outside general human decency. I can't say whether or not your teacher is doing this, but I've definitely seen people with a non-tantric relationship to a teacher act like they're supposed to see them as enlightened in the way you do if bound by samaya--and that's dangerous. Part of this confusion may come from the ambiguous use of the word "teacher" to cover both kinds of relationships.

In this day and age, your teacher should be able to understand the importance of, you know, not raping people. If he's taken tantric initiation from the Sakyong, there's nothing stopping him from maintaining guru devotion privately and even keeping a picture of the Sakyong at his personal meditation altar--but doing so publicly is a very different matter.

If you haven't seen them yet, I highly recommend Lama Willa Miller's pieces in Lion's Roar (cw for testimony of sexual misconduct)--this article

[www.lionsroar.com]

and others linked at the bottom of the page. You might also be interested in Lama Rod's audio teachings, "When the teacher fucks up" available here.

(Corboy note: when I clicked on the URL for this article, I got a security warning. The URL for the security warning includes siteadvisor dot com/phishing.html? )

[www.siteadvisor.com]

I'm deeply conflicted with having a "teacher" anyway

This is a bigger question, but for now, I'd urge you to remember that "having a teacher" is only relevant for tantra. If you're not doing tantra, the guru-stuff doesn't apply, and so your relationship to teachers in Tibetan lineages isn't that different from the relationship to teachers in non-Tibetan lineages--teachers are still important, obviously, but not In That Way. If you are doing tantra, and this is an issue, I recommend talking with a qualified teacher (possibly a woman) you trust about the problem.

Also, even in tantra, there's no such thing as having just one teacher--it's healthy and good to learn from several.

If he brushes this off as "crazy wisdom reaching out to meet people in their own craziness" I am out of there.

I'd probably do the same. Some of my teachers--including Lama Willa and Lama Rod--have worked with lamas who have committed really terrible acts, including to them personally. They have no illusions about what went on. Any teacher worth their salt has at best a complex opinion of Trungpa Rinpoche and doesn't dismiss that he and others did things that were wrong.

*I wish I could remember where I heard this; ironically, it might be from Trungpa Rinpoche. Oh dear.

**Disclaimer: In the technical sense of Tibetan Buddhist philosophy, of a practitioner seeking individual liberation rather than full Buddhahood. These three yanas are types of practitioners, not lineages.

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[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 1 point 18 hours ago
This is a great comment, thank you.

[–]Randalf_the_Dope 3 points 1 day ago*
Definitely hard news to consume. Just shows how strong our animalistic instincts can be, even in those who are fully aware of them.

I'd say the important thing to be mindful of when hearing your teacher discuss this is to search for Truth. If what they say doesn't resonate with you, take note and meditate on it. Then proceed with what feels right with you.

I also feel it is unfair to categorize Trungpa's alcohol cravings (which does not harm others) with Sakyong's manipulation of students. Just something to keep in mind.

[–]77dale 2 points 1 day ago
I'm kind of in the same boat, I go weekly to open meditation/discussion group at a local Shambala center and I have been/will remain aloof to the Shambala structure and guru orientation (I mostly take my teachings from Theravada anyway). I love the community and will continue to participate and am similarly curious as to how this will be addressed and what I have to contribute to collective understanding;

[–]Host-the 2 points 23 hours ago
Hi-- I would suggest talking to them directly and not just pretending nothing is wrong, and if they respond in a negative way or in an indirect, unhelpful way, I would move on. I am sure there are others in your area! but please do TALK to them first--give them a chance to speak their mind and TRY to understand their point of view on the situation. Sometimes things happen and we don't try to confront it and just let it burn beneath the surface. Instead talk it out, and if there is a problem, find another option.

[–]bodhiquestvajrayana 2 points 1 day ago
Having a teacher is nothing to be conflicted about. Just because Buddhism is a "mental" discipline doesn't mean that you can go at it completely alone, just like how you can't learn a martial art from books.

With that being said, teachers come in all sorts. The one you have right now isn't necessarily the best fit for you. I also would be very uncomfortable with the kind of whitewashing you mention, and I don't think there's anything wrong with moving on if things turn out as you speculate.

Hearing your teacher's thoughts about the issue would be the best IMO, even if it's difficult.

[–]albillkorean s?n -3 points 1 day ago
[www.reddit.com]

Do we need two threads on this? The other one has over 120 comments already.


[–]krodha[????] 9 points 1 day ago
Prob best to let people vent. It is a big deal, after all.

[–]albillkorean s?n -1 points 1 day ago
True but also same shit, different day. I mean, we've had Noah Levine in the last two months too.

The Sakyong has always been a marginal figure living in his father's shadow as some kind of faux king.

[–]Uqbaritibetan 3 points 1 day ago
And yet the Trungpa people prop him up. Guess they like having a Ronald McDonald type figure to help with marketing and fund-raising.


[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 3 points 18 hours ago
Different communities mean a different set of people who have to come to terms with this on a personal level.

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[–]oliness 20 points 2 days ago
So sad to hear that yet another Buddhist teacher has abused women and broken the precepts. The report contains graphic sexual accounts and perhaps needs a trigger warning, but the passage that really stood out for me is this:

"Don’t tell me to not have any dark hidden corners of my mind and then insist Shambhala and the Sakyong need some. Don’t instruct me to lean in and visualize and dissolve into someone who deeply violated not just my physical/sexual boundaries, but who took advantage of my spiritual boundaries/experience/practice too. Don’t tell me to push myself to the brink of suicide and just accept it because Marpa was abusive. Stop accusing me of wanting the headlines,
attention or money."

I read that and thought: please everyone we MUST stop doing this. So many people on this and other forums do exactly what she's describing. We justify (particularly on here Trungpa's) clearly abusive actions with tales of Marpa and Milarepa, with exhortations to forget the teacher and remember the teaching, with asking people to give up their critical judgment and accept that clearly wrong actions have a wisdom we can't comprehend.

Let's not enable any more abuse by demanding that all teachers and practioners obey the 5 precepts, that men show respect for women, and that we will never sacrifice our intelligence or our moral conscience to maintain a guru mystique around any human being.


[–]RustGal 24 points 2 days ago
" Both women, whose names were not included, alleged that the encounters took place at or after alcohol-fueled private parties that were thrown for the Sakyong." And then Shambhala has closed ranks to prevent a full and transparent investigation.

Chip off the old Trungpa block, unfortunately.


[–]KimUnTeslay?na 10 points 2 days ago
The 3 women's devastating accounts should be read in full and learned from.

[andreamwinn.com]


[–]RinpocheAgain 7 points 1 day ago
Second, reading this is transformative and models how religion can be reformed.


[–]celebratedmrk 6 points 2 days ago
Chip off the old Trungpa block, unfortunately.

The irony is a bit too much. I mean, come on, did he not learn anything from his old man's fall from grace?


[–]RustGal 3 points 1 day ago
The irony is a bit too much. I mean, come on, did he not learn anything from his old man's fall from grace?

I KNOW. And its not like the details are hidden - there have been widely distributed books and articles. Maybe there is a more deeply entrenched culture of entitlement (kingship?) in Shambhala than we outsiders (I practice Zen) realize. But still, this shows that at least previously there was a very significant lack of self-knowledge present, and a lot of giving in to passion, aggression, and ignorance. Very, very glad I've never invested in any of the Sakyong's books or seminars. I won't be now.


[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 3 points 1 day ago
Maybe there is a more deeply entrenched culture of entitlement (kingship?) in Shambhala than we outsiders (I practice Zen) realize.

Maybe for the Sakyong and his inner circle. Most of us haven't seen it that way until now. After the "regency controversy" 30 years ago, it's been a long process of rebuilding trust. And just like that....

[–]RustGal 3 points 1 day ago
I should have phrased my comment better, because what you said is what I meant. The culture of being king and deserving all things would be (IMO) a continuation of the Chogyam Trungpa era of recreating the Kingdom of Shambhala, with all of the trappings and formalities that required at the time. I have no doubt that individual practitioners who aren't of Trungpa blood (or marriage) are expected to behave properly and normally, and generally do so.


[–]fgiii 1 point 1 day ago
...drops the mic.


[–]kausidya 9 points 2 days ago
Like I said on my FB - I already see a bunch of people feeling discouraged and unable to attend their Shambhala centers, which is totally understandable and I'm really sorry. As someone who loves learning about Buddhism and practicing so much, it hurts to know all the people are out there now feeling spiritually robbed.

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[–]Uqbaritibetan 6 points 2 days ago
They should feel discouraged. Shamhala is a cult and should be shunned.


[–]starebearcare 15 points 2 days ago
While there are clearly some deeply troubling things occurring at the center of the mandala, the day-to-day experience of practicing at a local Shambhala Center is not cult-like at all. I’ve practiced with the community for ten years and have been heavily involved with my local center as well as attending retreats at the land centers. I have never taken the leap to become a Vajrayana student, partly because while I love the Shambhala teachings and have encountered many wonderful teachers in the organization, I have never felt a strong connection to the Sakyong.

It doesn’t ring true to dismiss Shambhala as a cult. There are a number of different ways that people participate in Shambhala. Many people have been introduced to mindfulness, meditation, and dharma through their local Shambhala centers, and it has changed their lives for the better (in their own words). My experience of the organization has always been that there is no pressure to participate more than one wants to. People are free to have other spiritual or religious orientations in addition to their participation in Shambhala, and often do, which is not the case with cults.

All this to say, the things that are coming to light are heartbreaking for all the people who are connected to the Shambhala community and who derive genuine spiritual benefit from the sangha. It is not as simple as, “good, now everyone sees what’s happening and can be liberated from that cult.” The loss of trust in the organization will leave many people estranged from a community that they experienced as healthy and supportive.

[+]Uqbari comment score below threshold (2 children)


[–]MettaMettaMetta 4 points 2 days ago
I was raised in an actual cult. I think you may be generous with your words.

[–]Uqbaritibetan 6 points 1 day ago
There's a scale of cultishness, with Scientology as one extreme, and CofE on the other. I don't think the Trungpa people have murdered anybody, and they don't aim for 100 % exploitation the way Scientology does, but neither are they a particularly open, enlightened organization. It is controlled or "owned" by an elite which is not really answerable to anybody, except perhaps financially, and has no real ethical principles.


[–]MettaMettaMetta 1 point 1 day ago
Yeah they have some lapsed ethical concerns for sure. It’s probably one bad rotten bite on an otherwise fresh apple.


[–]albillkorean s?n 1 point 1 day ago
One? You are aware of Trungpa's behavior and that of his designated heir, following his death? You know, the one that knowingly gave people HIV?

[–]MettaMettaMetta 2 points 1 day ago
What I mean is that the teachings (from what I have read) are solid Buddhist teachings.

You can find a murderer, rapists, thief etc...in every sect and group known to man. Doesn’t mean the teachings are bad.

[–]bodhiquestvajrayana 3 points 21 hours ago
Except not all sects and groups are run by current murderers and rapists.


[–]Hen-steppermadhyamaka 7 points 2 days ago
If anyone considered Sakyong Mipham their guru or you have felt strongly connected with Shambhala, don't give up.

I had a connection to Tsem Tulku before some news surfaced a few years ago. It really sucks when that spiritual carpet is pulled out from underneath you -- that's the one thing that's supposed to be the backbone in your life that doesn't change throughout every hardship. If you can get over this and move on, which you can, then you can get over anything.

IMO read up on the masters, study the source texts, and consider Sakyong Mipham (or whichever Shambhala teacher you had) a spiritual friend who shared basic dharma with you. Just like any friend, they are prone to faults and human suffering. They should not be held as a guru, but should also not held as an enemy whose teachings you should immediately purge. Gradually over time you'll figure out which teachings to abandon and which to retain, and it may surprise you how much you retain, in a positive way.

Most dharma centers have a senior student teach basic dharma, these students like us are prone to faults but can still provide very useful information, so it may be good to see him that way.


[–]Uqbaritibetan 6 points 2 days ago
The worst part about the Tsem situation was how many people knew, but wouldn't tell anybody. A lot of them had signed non-disclosure agreements, but outside of his organization, others were reluctant to speak ill of any lama. Not even the Dalai Lama's offices would say anything--apparently seekers were supposed to just intuit that Tsem was lying about which protector he was propitiating. The DL himself finally spoke up about Sogyal, decades after his behavior was common knowledge.


[–]RinpocheAgain 1 point 1 day ago
Yup


[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 1 point 1 day ago
Most dharma centers have a senior student teach basic dharma, these students like us are prone to faults but can still provide very useful information, so it may be good to see him that way.

Problem is, this "senior student" is the lineage holder of the Shambhala teachings.

[–]Hen-steppermadhyamaka 1 point 1 day ago
It might be a good opportunity to look into Naropa, Marpa, Milarepa.

[–]albillkorean s?n 1 point 1 day ago
Who are all conveniently dead so not molesting anyone?

[–]Hen-steppermadhyamaka 1 point 1 day ago
They are responsible for the Kagyu tradition which is Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche's (founder of Shambhala's) actual lineage.

[–]albillkorean s?n 1 point 1 day ago
Yes, theoretically, they are. Decades of various scandals have shown that the tradition only acts when forced to do so by public embarrassments. Ponder all the times they censured Chogyam Trungpa or Kalu Rinpoche... (In reference to the tradition...)

If you mean the semi-mythical dead people, sorry, I don't believe dead people, who are empty of inherent existence after all, are going to swoop in and magically fix things.!

korean s?n 1 point 1 day ago
My point is appealing to dead people doesn't solve current problems and the current organizations don't solve it either. People should go in with their eyes open.

Personally, I have severe issues with guru-based systems because of things like abuse scandals.


[–]RoaminRonin13non-affiliated 17 points 2 days ago
I’ve had an on again / off again relationship with Shambhala - usually more because it can be a weird, “Buddhism Lite” school of thought with some new-age type tendencies. This is it for me.

Trungpa, while obviously quite controversial himself, holds a special place in my practice due to a few of his books - but the fact that Shambhala is incapable, it seems, of riding itself of what appears to be rampant sexual abuse over the years is abhorrent.

Regardless of how all this turns out, it seems more than fair to say the community has some kind of root problem where these issues keep coming up. As the quote in the article mentions, when patterns emerge they point towards truth - it’s hard to argue there isn’t a problem with this community.

As an aside, I would argue that it’s basically impossible to have an “appropriate” sexual relationship with one’s dharma teacher or guru. It’s not the same as a college professor dating a grad student - the relationship is much more profound and personal in the first place, and I’m not sure that you’re ever in an appropriate position to give proper consent. You’ve placed your spiritual development in this persons hands, to some extent, and then you’re asked to decide if screwing them is OK?

That’s just terrible.

[–]KimUnTeslay?na 7 points 2 days ago*
In case someone thinks he was practicing karmamudra, the women alleged that he "used kusung [personal attendants] to procure women for his own sexual pleasure, not for any spiritual purpose".

[andreamwinn.com]

[–]fgiii 9 points 2 days ago
Dang. All of this sounds very 'culty'.

[–]wundertunge 2 points 1 day ago
It really does, and as a student and practitioner of these teachings, I'm having some serious cognitive dissonance.

---(some material deleted. For full text of discussion, go here:

[www.reddit.com]

[–]RoaminRonin13non-affiliated 2 points 1 day ago
I disagree on the celibacy.

I know that’s a point of contention around here - but “enlightened beings” aside, I don’t think you’re dharma teacher / guru needs to be celibate to be trustworthy. We’re all human.

I do think that it’s important to keep things separated and “professional”, for lack of a better term, in this regard, however, and that even if consent is given you’ve taken advantage of your position by seeking a physical relationship with one of your students in your sangha. I can’t think of a situation where that would be acceptable.


[–]oliness 1 point 18 hours ago
To clarify, by "guru" I mean someone considered perfectly enlightened, whose every action is to be regarded as a perfect teaching. If anyone is in that position, they should demonstrate that they are beyond earthly desires.

It's different for someone who is passing on the teachings illuminated by their own experience. They're not claiming that all their actions are necessarily pure. Anyone with some meditation experience can teach to a degree to others. But treating someone as a fully enlightened guru means they need to be held to a high standard.


[–]rimbaud1872 13 points 2 days ago
Shambhala has been corrupt from the start. How many more victims of crazy wisdom do we need?

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[–]wundertunge 2 points 2 days ago
That's not my point. As a Shambhala practitioner, I'm sad, confused, disappointed, and angry with the Sakyong. What the OP of my response said is that unequivocally, no teachers are safe to follow.

To answer your question, probably not...in his final lifetime. Then again, I wasn't there

[–]vhbxxd 1 point 2 days ago
I understand how you feel. I’m going through the same thing myself. Obviously, his statement about no teachers being safe to follow is false. It would just be harder to find a teacher whom you can trust.

[–]easternhorizon 2 points 1 day ago
This is heartbreaking, especially since I didn't even know who this was until a few hours ago, when I listened to his interview on the 10% Happier Podcast. I was amazed by him, and was coincidentally reading his book. And then to read this just a few hours later...

[–]bodhiquestvajrayana 1 point 20 hours ago
You dodged a bullet, it's a good thing

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Coming off the heels of a public apology for what might be perceived as harmful “relationships” earlier this week, a new report is claiming that Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche sexually assaulted multiple women in the Buddhist order that he leads and that members of Shambhala International actively covered up his tracks.

The report was written by Andrea Winn, a leadership coach and second-generation Shambhalian who says she was forced out of her Toronto sangha in 2000 after speaking up about the childhood sexual abuse she experienced from multiple members of the community. The latest findings are the second phase of Project Sunshine, which Winn started a little over a year ago as a way to give survivors a support network.

Winn said she did not hear about any allegations against the Sakyong until women started reaching out to her after the first Project Sunshine report was published in February.

This “phase two” report, released on Thursday morning, includes two accounts from anonymous women who closely served the Sakyong. Both women, whose names were not included, alleged that the encounters took place at or after alcohol-fueled private parties that were thrown for the Sakyong.

“When I first began to be invited to these parties, I was elated. I felt as though my devotion was being recognized and acknowledged and that I now genuinely ‘belonged,’” wrote a woman in one of two impact statements in the report.

For the rest of this story in Tricycle magazine, go here:

[tricycle.org]

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The preliminary investigation into the allegations against the Sakyong was conducted by Carol Merchasin, a retired employment lawyer who says she has investigated numerous sexual misconduct cases. Merchasin said she completed several levels of Shambhala training in Boulder, Colorado, in the early 1980s, and that her husband was a student of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, the Sakyong’s father and Shambhala’s founder. She reached out to Winn after reading about Project Sunshine earlier this year and later agreed to review some of the allegations.

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In April 1987, Vajra Regent Osel Tendzin assumed leadership of the Vajradhatu community, following the death of the well-known and widely respected Tibetan Buddhist teacher, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche.

Less than two years later, in December 1988, the most harmful crisis ever to strike an American Buddhist community unfolded when Vajradhatu administrators told their members that the Regent had been infected with the AIDS virus for nearly three years. Members of the Vajradhatu board of directors conceded that, except for some months of celibacy, he had neither protected his many sexual partners nor told them the truth. One of the Regent’s sexual partners, the son of long-term students, was infected, as was a young woman who had later made love to the young man.

Two members of the Vajradhatu board of directors had known of his infection for more than two years, and chose to do nothing. Trungpa Rinpoche had also known about it before his death. Board members had reluctantly informed the sangha (community) only after trying for three months to persuade the Regent to act on his own.

“Thinking I had some extraordinary means of protection, I went ahead with my business as if something would take care of it for me,” Tendzin reportedly told a stunned community meeting organized in Berkeley in mid-December.

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Some students, replaying dynamics from their alcoholic families, responded to Trungpa Rinpoche by denying and enabling his addictive drinking and sexual activity. “I served Rinpoche big glasses of gin first thing in the morning, if you want to talk about enabling,” said one woman, who had watched her own father die of alcoholism.

Others resolved their cognitive dissonance by believing that their teacher had transcended the limitations of a human body. “Trungpa Rinpoche said that because he had Vajra nature [a yogically transformed and stabilized psychophysiology], he was immune to the normal physiological effects of alcohol,” said one student. “We bought the story that it was a way of putting ‘earth’ into his system, so that he could ... relate to us. It never occurred to anyone I knew that he was possibly an alcoholic, since that was a disease that could only happen to an ordinary mortal. And many of us were ignorant–we thought of an alcoholic only as the classic bum in the street “

An atmosphere of denial permeated the community in the 1970s and early 1980s, and other Vajradhatu students became heavy drinkers. “I found myself a nice little nest where I could keep on drinking,” said one long-time Vajradhatu Buddhist. who was among a handful of Vajradhatu members who joined Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) in the early 1980s. Their recovery seemed to threaten others. The first woman to get sober was asked to quit the hoard of a home care organization found by Vajradhatu members. “I felt such contempt for someone who had to quit drinking, and I treated her like a mental case.” said the woman who got rid of her–a woman who has since joined AA herself.

When Trungpa Rinpoche lay dying in 1986 at the age of 47, only an inner circle knew the symptoms of his final illness. Few could bear to acknowledge that their beloved and brilliant teacher was dying of terminal alcoholism. even when he lay incontinent in his bedroom, belly distended and skin discolored, hallucinating and suffering from varicose veins, gastritis and esophageal varices, a swelling of veins in the esophagus caused almost exclusively by cirrhosis of the liver.

“Rinpoche was certainly not an ordinary Joe, but he sure died like every alcoholic I’ve ever seen who drank uninterruptedly.” said Victoria Fitch, a member of his household staff with years of experience as a nursing attendant. “The denial was bone-deep.” she continued. “I watched his alcoholic dementia explained as his being in the realm of the daikinis (guardians of the teachings, visualized in female form). When he requested alcohol, no one could bring themselves not to bring it to him, although they tried to water his beer or bring him a little less. In that final time of his life... he could no longer walk independently. At the same time then was a power about hint and an equanimity to his presence that was phenomenal, that I don’t know how to explain.”

Some students now feel that the Regent Osel Tendzin suffered from a similar denial of human limitation, as well as ignorance of addictive behavior.

“Many students who are outraged by the Regent’s behavior seem to think he arose out of nowhere,” one student said. “They’re not using their Buddhist training about cause and effect. I think the Regent has emulated in a more extreme and deadly fashion a pattern of denial and ignorance exemplified by Trungpa Rinpoche’s own attitude to alcohol.”

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By the time the crisis broke, a small but significant minority of Vajrtdhatu students had begun to deal with wounds fell by family alcoholism and incest. By the mid-1980s, about 250 Vajradhatu members around the country–mostly wives of alcoholic husbands –had joined Al-Anon, an organization modeled after AA for the Families of alcoholics, and more than a score of sangha members had joined AA. Soft drinks were also served at Vajradhatu ceremonies, and the atmosphere of excessive drinking diminished.

Those in the 12-Step movement were a minority, however, and certain stubbornness persisted. For example, the Regent himself sought to suppress any public discussion of the sexual scandal and crisis, creating an atmosphere reminiscent of an alcoholic family’s defensive secrecy.

When editor Rick Fields prepared a short article for the Vajradhatu Sun describing the bare bones of the crisis, he was forbidden to print it. “There have been ongoing discussions, both within community meetings and among many individuals, about the underlying issues that permitted the current situation to occur,” read the banned article. "Those issues include the abuse of power and the betrayal of trust, the proper relationship between teachers with spiritual authority and students, particularly in the West, and the relationship between devotion and critical intelligence on the spiritual path.”

In the article’s place, Fields printed a mute drawing of the Vajradhatu logo–a knot of eternity–stretched to the break­ing point over a broken heart. In March, Fields again attempted to run his article and was fired by the Regent. When the board of directors refused to support him, he formally resigned, saying that Buddhist teaching in the West “would best served in the long run by openness and honesty, painful as that may be.”

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Feeling Frustrated and Disappointed with Shambhala's History of Sexual Misconduct self.Buddhism

Submitted 9 days ago * by bckids1208two

For the past several years I've been a regular attendee of my local Shambhala group. There's a lot that I love about it: the accessibility and practical focus of the teachings, the community, the abundance of literature, the clear and structured courses, Pema Chodron, and the philosophical worldview of basic goodness and improving society. But I have always been uncomfortable with Chogyam Trungpa and Sakyong Mipham's pictures and the throne in the shrine room. I grew to be more comfortable with the idea that they are symbolic of the historic legacy of the teachings even as I became more uncomfortable with the personal behavior of Chogyam Trungpa that I learned about.

It seemed to me the community had dramatically changed since his death and I figured he was kind of an overturn all social conventions and re-envision society kind of guy. He was riding the sexual revolution and was probably an alcoholic to boot. I came to accept that he was a flawed person and feel grateful he brought the teachings he'd learned to the west.

Yesterday Sakyong Mipham issued a public apology for engaging in sexual relationships that have harmed people in the community. It was a huge disappointment, but also, his apology really rubbed me the wrong way. " I have recently learned that some of these women have shared experiences of feeling harmed as a result of these relationships." I have no idea what happened and I appreciate that the Shambhala leadership is investigating and trying to change the community. Saying that the women were "feeling harmed" implies to me he thinks they weren't actually harmed and he did nothing wrong. Of course, I don't know what he did or didn't do. If it follows the #metoo pattern we're used to, Sakyong probably did some messed up stuff. The whole situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth and the idea of going to the center with his picture on the wall in the shrine room is very unappealing right now.

The small town Christian church I went to growing up was thrown into turmoil by the married pastor sleeping with the mom of one of the families. Although I was just a teen and a bystander, it was pretty traumatic to see my community devastated by the bad behavior of a spiritual leader. The pastor and his family moved and I never saw his children again; I had known them their whole lives. I kind of feel like, great, here we go again.

I'd love to hear the community's thoughts on this situation and any shared experiences.

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[–]Type_DXL 1 point 8 days ago
Wow, I didn't realize the "Vajra Holder and Possessor of the Victory Banner of the Practice Lineage of the Karma Kagyu" entailed having consorts and having a drinking problem and driving around sports cars. What religion is this for again?

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[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 3 points 8 days ago
The Karmapa is head of the Kagyu lineage. For some reason Western converts struggle more with the sex and drinking than do Tibetan masters.

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[–]Type_DXL 5 points 8 days ago
Maybe because it's in direct violation of the precepts? If he can't control his actions, then how can he control his mind? And if he can't control his mind, did he really succeed along the path?

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[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 3 points 7 days ago
Well you're asking the right questions. Maybe the answers aren't as straightforward as you'd first assume. The fact that he has such widespread support from many more orthodox instructors should leave you at least open to the possibility.

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[–]SamtenLhari 3 points 8 days ago
Everyone has an opinion. Pretty much the whole point of Vajrayana is to transcend opinions.

[–]ShortTermMemoryLoss 9 points 8 days ago
I think the earthquake that is transforming the landscape of how women are seen and treated is painful but necessary. It can be revolutionary and how we respond is key. However, the responsibility should be on perpetrators, not you or the victims. I have great respect for Al Franken, because he owned his failings and stepped down. He didn’t make excuses or place blame, he didn’t make anyone offer proof, no investigation or trial. If this abuse of power has been going on for decades, then maybe your choice to express your rejection of that possible enabling system will help it change. At the least, I would insist they take those pictures down, until their long overdue investigation is done. If enough people splinter, maybe they will take action more quickly.

Please don’t mistake my condemnation of misogyny as a complete rejection of Shambhala. I agree that the Shambhala community is a wonderful group with many excellent teachers and that the baby shouldn’t be thrown out with the bath water.
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[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 9 points 8 days ago*
This kind of thing really hurts. I love the Shambhala teachings and I think they're extremely necessary for our age. It's so upsetting that the people most responsible for carrying the Great Eastern Sun vision have done such harm.

With regards to the Sakyong himself, I have to say that while I'm disappointed I'm not surprised. He's been remarkably hands off with regard to the sexual abuse that's been coming to light so far and wrote a letter earlier in the year that I (and others) felt was wholly insufficient.

Project Sunshine is due to release their follow up report on Thursday and they explicitly mention the Sakyong, so I imagine we'll know more soon.


Corboy note links to Project Sunshine documents here:

[andreamwinn.com]

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Dizzy_Sliptibetan 13 points 8 days ago
As an outsider to all this, I have to say that that letter is incredibly weak if it's meant to be a real and actual apology. He never even says first of all just what it is he is making an apology for. Yes, he says the women felt "harmed," and then he says he'd like to make a public apology. But he never admits to having done anything to these women. He never says exactly what it is he's apologizing for. That's weak.

And on top of that he shifts the tone in the remaining portion of the letter and turns the situation into a generalized feeling of hurt, explaining how all the members of the community should come together to heal the wounds. That's not an apology. That's deflection.

For example, he says near the end of the letter "This is not easy work, and we cannot give up on each other," as if his need to work on himself and accept his own personal responsibility for his bad actions are somehow now this big group effort that everyone shares in. That's not taking personal responsibility.

That letter isn't really an apology in my opinion.

BBBallstheravada 7 points 8 days ago
Well said.

bckids1208two3 points 8 days ago
That is exactly how I feel about it.

oliness 3 points 7 days ago
Agreed, it's like when people say they "apologize for any offense caused". That's really saying "you hyper-sensitive snowflakes need to learn to take a joke!" An apology is to say you were wrong, and admit exactly what you did wrong. Not say that you regret somebody feeling bad.

wundertunge 4 points 8 days ago
And most everyone I spoke to last night at a gathering in our local Sangha felt much the same. Incredibly disappointed. It all felt way too much like spin and Shambhalese talk for what should have been real, genuine talk. It's almost like the Sakyong forgot about the very teachings we have all been studying

kausidya 3 points 8 days ago
All this is so vague, I guess we'll see what happens. But yeah even if you have a more relaxed attitude towards sex, usually this type of thing can turn us away from institutions and that's understandable. Sakyong Mipham is a prime candidate for showing how human we humans can be, it's almost like "the universe" sets people up to be giant learning lessons for the masses.

ShortTermMemoryLoss 3 points 6 days ago

[www.reddit.com]

Marston357 3 points 8 days ago
Shambhala has always had a long history of sexual abuse, what is it about this in particular that has changed your mind?

It's important to separate the teachings from the people. Personally I would feel extremely uncomfortable around the sangha, Pema seems like a wonderful person and I'm glad she's there, but the teachings are still valuable and can be used even if the institutional practices aren't.

[–]interconnectedmoment 2 points 8 days ago
How prevalent is this across schools?

[–]Marston357 2 points 8 days ago
No idea but there are some pretty horrific stories. It's like as if outright gang rape wasn't bad enough from one successor, he was knowingly spreading HIV through unsafe acts.

[–]KimUnTeslay?na 3 points 8 days ago*
There's no gang rape that I'm aware of. Trungpa's hand-picked successor Ösel Tendzin was promiscuous with students without informing them of his HIV positive status, and one student died of AIDS, according to Wikipedia citations.

[–]interconnectedmoment 3 points 8 days ago
Holy heavens. If that's not deliberate intentional harm and suffering in intention words action I don't know what is.

[–]Marston357 1 point 7 days ago
Osel raped a man while his goons held the man down.


[–]KimUnTeslay?na 1 point 8 days ago
Rare.

[–]HalfShellivajrayana 1 point 8 days ago
Not at all rare, unfortunately.

[–]Dimethyltrypta_miner 2 points 8 days ago
Power corrupts, it doesn’t matter the situation. No man or woman (or whatever-you-like) is above falling into some evil shit when other people look to them for answers; something about that power dynamic that attracts and breeds bad behavior.

[–]bodhiquestvajrayana 1 point 8 days ago
Well the Buddha was above all that, then again he technically wasn't just a man.

[–]oliness 3 points 8 days ago
And not just the Buddha - as far as we know the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh, Ajahn Brahm, etc have never abused their position. They are genuine monastics. These problems seem to have occurred in the sects which abandoned monasticism and didn't have clear rules as to what sexual behavior was acceptable.

[–]bodhiquestvajrayana 2 points 8 days ago
Good point. Further than monasticism, I think it's really a matter of being open and transparent. It's perhaps one thing if you explain from day 1 that you are not celibate, that you haven't crossed over sexual desire, that you don't have qualms about getting involved with students and that you have no intention of keeping to monogamous and committed relationships. It's something else entirely if you keep everything ambiguous and manipulate assumptions, ignorance and naivety.


[–]oliness 2 points 8 days ago
Yes, and that's seen by the number of people on these threads who mistakenly write as if Sakyong Mipham, Sogyal Rinpoche, etc were monks who had taken vows of celibacy. They had never actually vowed not to do anything they've done!

Yet there's sort of a presumed understanding that they were fully in control of their desires, and enlightened. Perhaps without keeping that ambiguous mystique up people would ask why they were leaders of their organizations and put in a guru position. The issue is not celibacy and monasticism, but putting people in guru positions who aren't advanced enough for it.

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[–]MahaLudwig 1 point 6 days ago
The guru at your heart on the moon disc is perfect. If you have doubt that the gross external guru is not pure, you're not focusing on the essential point of the practice. Can you show me one person on this planet with perfect moral disciple? It's the special method that distinguishes these qualities.



[–]KimUnTeslay?na 2 points 4 days ago*
Many gurus behave themselves, and their flaws are limited to repeating themselves too much, telling jokes that aren't funny, etc. The DL advised: "Perception of faults in the guru should not cause us to feel disrespect, for by demonstrating faults to us the guru is actually showing us what we should abandon. At least, this is the most useful attitude for us to take." [info-buddhism.com]

the gross external guru is not pure, you're not focusing on the essential point of the practice.

OK, but what to focus on if the guru sexually abuses your wife or daughter, as is alleged at Rigpa and most recently at Shambala?
[andreamwinn.com]



[–]MahaLudwig 1 point 3 days ago
Generate the moon disc and keep your guru at your heart always.


[–]KimUnTeslay?na 1 point 3 days ago
So you'll sacrifice the women of your sangha at the altar of "guru devotion"?


[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 3 points 8 days ago
It doesn't matter how good or bad some other person is; it only matters how good or bad you are. Don't focus on them. Focus on yourself.

That doesn't quite work when the Shambhala vision is to create an enlightened society, and when the "other person" concerned is the person at the centre of those efforts.


[–]MahaLudwig 0 points 8 days ago
Oh, there will eventually be an enlightened society, but they're not going to called it Shambala. We're just now planting the seeds for the future harvest and benefit. Homage to Maitreya Buddha. Please come to us expediently.

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KimUnTeslay?na 9 points 8 days ago*
repress a natural sexual desire and need in people.

Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche is a lay teacher.

As is Sogyal Rinpoche, whose scandals have rocked the Rigpa organization. [www.smh.com.au]

Japanese Zen got it right

Eido Shimano Roshi was called "the Zen predator of the Upper East Side". [www.theatlantic.com]

There have been others:

"In the 1960s, four major Zen teachers came to the United States from Japan: Shunryu Suzuki, Taizan Maezumi, Joshu Sasaki, and Eido Shimano. Andy Afable, one of Shimano’s former head monks, called these four the “major missionaries” of Zen, as they had all received “transmission” from leading Japanese teachers: That is, they had been deemed worthy to be the heirs, to be responsible for the persistence of the teachings.

And three of the four, Afable noted when we spoke, have caused major public sex scandals: first Maezumi, and more recently Shimano and Sasaki. Sasaki, of Rinzai-ji, a Zen center in Los Angeles, is now 106 years old and, as his board members finally admitted in 2013, was groping and fondling unwilling students well into his 11th decade (he also ran a leading Zen center in New Mexico, and his lewdness did not respect state lines).

Maezumi, affiliated with another West Coast zendo, the Zen Center of Los Angeles, was a philanderer and an alcoholic, as the scholar Dale S. Wright has detailed at length.

The only one of the four whose reputation was unblemished, Shunryu Suzuki of the San Francisco Zen Center, gave his sangha over to a man named Richard Baker, who was later embroiled in a sex scandal of his own, resigned from his abbacy, and became the subject of a book with the appropriately suggestive title Shoes Outside the Door.

But there are many lesser-known yet just as randy Zen teachers. For example, Afable might have added that at Chobo-ji, a Zen temple in Seattle, Genki Takabayashi made passes at his female students. And after his death, several students of Dainin Katagiri, the founding abbot of the Minnesota Zen Meditation Center, in Minneapolis, reported having affairs with their teacher, who had been married. Today, one could reasonably assert that of the 30 or 40 important Zen centers in the country, at least 10 have employed head teachers who have been accused of groping, propositioning, seducing, or otherwise exploiting students.

The question is: How do so many Zen Buddhist teachers get away with it, and for so long? We can begin to approach an answer by thinking about the nature of authority." [newrepublic.com]

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[–]interconnectedmoment 1 point 8 days ago
Sometimes the 'master' creates an unbalanced power dimension. Even though it shouldn't, it does.

All teachers have a duty in their roles, as masters or not, to maintain balance between student and teacher. Side by side. Not above and below. This is the concern I have with gurus, masters and some teachers. When there is a 'level' to be attained it creates a higher lower plane. When in reality we are the same. If you harm me, you are also harming yourself.

kausidya 2 points 8 days ago
If we're the same then what's the problem with sex?

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[–]interconnectedmoment 1 point 8 days ago*

The link between differientiated power and sex creates the distinction, as opposed to the physical act of sex between people balanced in equality of status/power etc. It's whatever your belief system is about sex. There's nothing 'wrong' with consensual sharing of physical acts of love or sex. That's your choice and your partner.

The issue here is level of status being leveraged for sex. Happens with both genders.

Also in these circumstances the teacher, or actor, or boss (percieved power differences) thinks they have special treatment because of their inflated sense of inequality. This specific instance posted I do not know enough about to comment but this "power difference" can lead to people doing things that are inconceivable just because they think they can.

Here's an interesting article about it from a psychological perspective.

[www.psychologytoday.com]

kausidya 0 points 8 days ago
When in reality we are the same.

You're saying teacher and student is the same, so in that case, wouldn't they be able to have sex?

interconnectedmoment 2 points 8 days ago
In reality we are the same. But these are roles that come with skewed power sometimes. Some people in these roles skew sex from students, or people they perceive to be 'lower' in the hierarchy.

When in reality without the roles if the student saw the teacher in a different enviornment just as the individuals there are there would be no sex. Just person to person the sexual exchange wouldn't have happened. It's the skewed perception of levels and certain roles that leads some roled identities to do such things. Imho.


kausidya 2 points 8 days ago
There are some interesting studies on these dynamics, some suggesting that there's a lot of mutual benefit and statistically there might be more healthy teacher/student relationships than unhealthy ones. Here's something I saw recently on r/CriticalTheory called The Erotics of Mentorship.

What an absolutely fascinating article that I will reread when after my brain reboots (ie I need sleep). ;) thanks for sharing. And in coming from a tribe surrounded by teachers in upbringing, would find it very difficult to date a teacher as a student, or date a student as a teacher. Would much rather leave those dynamic roles out of that relationship. But that's just me. The teacher role is prominent enough in the genes as is. Now a teacher with a teacher, that's very different.

[–]Uqbaritibetan 1 point 8 days ago
Authoritarianism has certainly been the major failing of Tibetan Buddhism.

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artfulorpheusacademic|non-sectarian 4 points 8 days ago
This is absolutely antithetical to Buddhism. Beyond dogma, sexual desire is itself a hinderence to the path and to suggest otherwise goes against the core tenets of Buddhism. Even in tantric traditions where sex is seen as part of the path, it is a far cry from what people normally associate with sex with (ideally) entirely different motivations.

Repression is not why we see sex scandals like this. Were that the case, we would see monaatics masturbate or go to a prostitute or the like. No the problem lies with power and those willing to exploit it.

Firstly, Shambala is an almost entirely lay organization, Trungpa renounced his vow before founding and most teachers since have not been monastics, and given the open sexuality of many higher ups, repression is not the case here.

We can also see sex abuse taking place in other non-celibate clergies like Hinduism or Evangelical Christianity, both of which have had major ones recently. So clearly, repression isn't the case here at all.

Instead, the problem lies with power and those who see an opportunity to exploit it.

In all cases we see like this, a person, usually a man, becomes an authority and surrounds himself with the young and vulnerable. Then we see patterns of abuse emerge -isolation, fear, the idea that this is for their benefit.

Spiritual leaders can exploit this even more by asserting some mystical wisdom behind their actions, some plan at work. So the cycle continues with the next victim but the former is too afraid to talk, because to do so would mean his word against theirs.

Layicizing the monastics will do nothing to prevent this and may even further corrupt the Sangha by making temple ownership heriditary or creating a heriditary priesthood like in Nepal.

Instead, we have to remain vigilant and hold our teachers to a higher standard as well as make it safe to challenge them if something feels off or wrong, against Buddhism, be it sex or drugs or abuse. If a teacher violates one of the precepts, that should be an immediate red flag

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"Predators, especially smart ones, go into professions where their victims will be easy to access.

In other words, they count on institutions, to wit: the Catholic church or a university as in these cases, to attract and corral the victims for them — thus making predation easier and more plentiful.

Yes, that is how predators think, I know, I have interviewed them. This is what institutions fail to get."

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There are many things that are nefarious in these cases but what really stands out and it should make you angry, it is this: Predators, especially smart ones, go into professions where their victims will be easy to access. In other words, they count on institutions, to wit: the Catholic church or a university as in these cases, to attract and corral the victims for them—thus making predation easier and more plentiful. Yes, that is how predators think, I know, I have interviewed them. This is what institutions fail to get.

A sexual predator on the street may be able to sexually assault only occasionally and are in the end more likely to get caught. But an institutional predator, as those described above know they have access to many more potential victims; they will not likely be detected, and they count on blind institutional loyalty. Predators are fully aware that they will be insulated and protected, and most likely they will just be terminated. They know most organizations want to protect their reputation so not much will be done. How else could those Catholic priests, Sandusky, and Nassar have continued to prey on innocents with such impunity? Institutions historically defend the predator first and the victims last.

And not only will institutions protect the predator, they will do the dirty work by questioning the veracity of victims or their memory, or worse, they may decide to just silence the victims. As unctuous as that sounds, that is exactly what they do. Institutions and enablers culpably embolden predators and so predators continue to do more harm.

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Years of researching dangerous personalities has also taught me one other thing. Institutions and even some law enforcement agencies always think in limited terms – in other words, there is just one isolated complaint, probably not much more there. What they negligently don’t realize is that when it comes to predators, the debris field of human victimization is always larger, never smaller than they ever imagined. Institutions in particular want to fixate on the one case, not realizing that part of the pathology of the sexual predator is to prey upon many victims. When it comes to predators, the iceberg is always bigger below the water.

So not only are they negligent, most institutions are reluctant to recognize that they may have hired or are associated with a predator. As if their institution were somehow immune from these individuals.