I feel I have to post about my experiences with the Pagan Association, a group based in Birmingham, U.K.

It's very hard to get any knowledge about them across as they manage to get things they don't like said about them removed from the net with threats of legal action.

However I know Rick's experienced in dealing with such annoyance.

This group holds pagan rituals, meetings and events in the midlands.

Numerous women have been victims of unsolicited sexual approaches and actions of their chairman, Martin Williams. At least two [filed complaints with the police] including [claims of] rape.

Does anyone know any good tactics to break down a cult and speed it on its way to non-existence?
Love
Kath

[b:e7a59f8407]Moderator Notes:[/b:e7a59f8407]

Since this post was made a statement regarding the rape charges filed against Martin Williams was received by a moderator of this board. A woman indetifying herself as a "partner" of Mr. Williams stated the following:

Quote

Yes she did go to the police, but they threw the case out, as out of 26 witnesses no one could back up her claims - we only asked that they tell the police the truth. The reason the police took 8 months was because they saw it as low priority, not because they were doing lots of investigation. Despite the police treating my partner well, it was still an horrendous time for us, as you can imagine. Within British law there are two crimes for which bail is not automatically granted - murder and rape. The fact that Martin was bailed unconditionally speaks volumes for how seriously the police took Kath's allegations. Anyway, I have no need to defend either myself or my partner's actions. Suffice to say that no charges of rape were made by the police

I dont know about dismantling a cult???? Its something that is very difficult to do. And some of the tactics fringes on legality. If only some of the current laws were change.
Although what one can legally do is to expose the cult(s) for who they really are. That has an impact with them.

Has anyone any suggestions about how to expose a cult/destructive group? What media, websites etc to approach or anything like that?
Love
Kath

Websites like the one we are on is a good medium. Keep in mind its important that you dont blatantly call any group a "cult" (in the modern sense of the word) without any evidence. An alternative wording like "cultish" might be better to avoid any legal battles.

There are another of cult watch websites but be warn some of these sites are run by Christian fundamentalist with their own agenda. I even heard Scientology were running a cult watch site (probably as a tactic to distance themselves from their critics).

You can try posting up information about the group onto other cultwatch sites/organizations to get the word around. You can also post up flyers about the group in the affected neighbourhoods. I would suggest you do things annonymously at first. Some cults can be very nasty and even dangerous with extremist cults. There might be a network of people you can work with or form a community organization etc etc.

Hi. I've been a fan of this site for sometime, and as I fancy myself as something of an amateur sleuth, enjoy following up stories reported here.
This post by Kath has prompted me to finally join this forum group you have here because I really don't like to see people causing trouble for their own personal agendas.
As a Pagan myself I have been aware of the Pagan Association for a long time. They are a very highly respected organisation who have on many occasions stood up for the rights of people who have been persecuted and brought some well needed balance and openness to the Pagan scene.
The organisers of the PA have spoken out against and exposed charlatans in the Occult world who have tried to manipulate vulnerable individuals, both financially and emotionally.
The PA are in no way a cult. They are simply an organisation providing networking, support and a forum for UK Pagans.

Although not a member of the PA myself, I have visited their forums as they provide much information as to what's on in the Pagan world. Kath and her partner used to post on the PA forums but were eventually banned because of their outlandish claims and extreme views. Kath and her partner have for a long time had a vendeta against the PA's organisers and it surprises me no end the depths that they will go to discredit them.
Kath recently joined another forum in the Birmingham area and immediately started and viscous campaign against the PA. She posted her intentions to cause trouble for the PA by posting on here, but the organisers soon caught on to her manipulative ways and promply removed most of her posts, seeing the potential legal repercussions of her claims.

As I've said, I'm not a member of the PA, nor do I have an argument with Kath and her partner. I am very concerned about the trouble one malicious person can cause to innocent parties, and I do not like to see this incredibly important cult information forum being used to spread hate.

Glad to hear that you are a fan.

As a fan you must understand that free speech works both ways.

Others have a right to post here as you have the right to respond.

Please be careful about breaking the rules you agreed to.

Specifically, no "flaming."

Personal attacks would come under this category and your remark about "spreading hate" seems to hint that you are heading in that direction.

People that violate the rules may be banned.

[...] women have said that they were raped or taken advantage of sexually by Martin Williams [...] not just me [...]

I don't know if 'cult' is often a useful word, but 'destructive group' certainly applies in this case, where vulnerable women are preyed upon.

I would have no reason to be anti- Pagan Association, were it not for my experience of being raped by its chairman- an experience which I am not alone in having had.
Love
Kath

The posting by, 'morco2006' makes it pretty clear that they are monitoring postings by kath on this and other forum. That seems pretty obsessive and 'cult like' to me. morco2006 say's he? she? is not a member of the PA but then gives themselves away by stating kath was banned from the pa forum, giving the pa 'spin' on this. A pa lackey posing as a normal person!

What morco2006 did not mention, (i wonder why) is the fact that the leaders of the pa attempt to silence dissidents by trying to get them banned from forum and mailing lists, spreading lies about them and even going so far as to issue death threats and curses. I wonder what crap they will post about kath next?

I have been an occultist in Birmingham for many years, and hold the view that the PA have done nothing but harm paganism and it's reputation and that it is lead by dangerous and evil people. Like all 'cults' they project a nice front, such as their websites, but vulnerable people who get tricked into joining soon live to regret it.

You can be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist ... but it's pretty clear from the extensive definition of what a cult (or bad practice) is. Just because someone waves a particular flag doesn't mean they have to defend unhealthy behaviour. I have pagan/heathen beliefs, but that in no way blinds or prevents me from 'exposing' those whose agenda is cultic. In fact, I believe it is destructive and irresponsible not to expose or reject those who abuse and/or manipulate (for all the reasons stated in this websites definition of 'cult'). I am so glad that forums such as this allow us to keep the dialogue alive!

I still do some pagan stuff and most people involved are ok, it's just this particular group that's exceptionally shady.
Love
Kath