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Another Survivor Testimony
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: November 11, 2019 10:04PM

Reposting a recent message from another ex-student, with his permission.

Quote
Ben
Hi there,

Pretty random how I found [Pathgate Survivors] as I was looking for some incense. I was a student of PY from the late 90’s moving to live in Newcastle in 2000, I stayed there and experienced much of what had been described by others on your site until my “Buddha nature” spoke to me to leave in 2004, ironic as PY would have said this was pride talking... but literally was the only thing that saved me!

I was subject to many forms of abuse and because I had originally joined for the focus on martial arts I was repeatedly hit. Because of my practice I did well in his cult despite initially “breaking every vow possible” and being “destined to linger in hell for many lifetimes”.. this came from kissing another student... thankfully PY was there to “clear my negative karma” by systematically beating me..!

I would very much like to connect to others who I may know during my time there as they were truly great people who were so wrongly hurt.

The message speaks for itself, but to make it clear, several cult dynamics have been presented here:

1. physical abuse, degradation and loss of dignity of student-victims.
2. loaded language, in this case, "pride", "vows" and "purifying negative karma".
3. fearmongering and shame-inducing by cult leader.
4. delegitimisation and isolation of former members.

It's great that we have, over the past year, been able to reconnect ex-students who had either self-isolated out of unwarranted fear and shame, or were forcefully isolated by Pathgate. We look forward to reuniting more of us.

Blog post: [pathgatesurvivors.com]

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Powerful Woman of Eternity
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: November 16, 2019 09:40PM

This is the testimony of "Chime", who was a student from 2009-2012. Text has been slightly edited for grammar and readability.



I met Peter Yeung (PY) and his entourage back in April 2009 in Athens where I was living at that time.

It was a very difficult period for me — I was sad and with no motivation in my life, a girl in her late 20s who was trying to find her place in the world.

I was fascinated from the beginning because PY gave me a lot of attention and seemed to care about me. I followed the lessons and got really into the whole Buddhist thing. During that period PY had starting teaching in Italy and asked me right away if I could go and translate his lessons from English into Italian. I thought “Wow! If he asks me to do something like this it means I have something special, I can get into his inner circle, I’m lucky…” and that’s how it all started.

In June 2009 I went to Italy for the first time with him and translated simultaneously the lessons, then I went in August to the last retreat held in Epidavros, Greece. I didn’t know what was going to happen there and on the first day I was shocked by the whole thing. I had decided to go with camping but it was really not for me. PY probably understood this and decided to offer me and another girl a gift: an apartment for us to stay for the whole period!

I became more and more fascinated by Buddhism, the lessons and all that I was hearing. I took refuge and received my Buddhist name: Chime Wangmo (Powerful woman of eternity).

Coming back to the real world it had become difficult because I was finding other people meaningless. Peter Young was becoming so influential in my life that my family began to get scared of what was happening. I dissimulated quite well and tried to be “normal” for them.

I didn’t have friends outside the Pathgate circle and was spending all my free time with its people, living with the monks and nuns, helping them at their centre, the organisation of the seminars, cooking etc.

The same year I went to the Winter Retreat in Newcastle, England for the first time and spent my Christmas there. After that, I was in Italy translating for PY, and was in England for Easter. Then everything changed during the retreat held in Athens in 2010.

I had a very big house in the centre of Athens and I don’t remember how this happened but he stayed in my place for the whole retreat and that’s how it began…

I can say I was really adoring him and he understood this and abused my state. We also started having a relationship” and I was living a dream in those days, I was happy and feeling lucky I had him with me. This continued till winter 2010, when I was going to Italy with him, staying in the same hotel and with him at night, and him staying in my place In Athens.

(Editor's note:
Q: "When you said "relationship" with PY, what do you mean? Did you and PY hold hands? Kiss? Have sex etc.?
A: "Everything you mentioned.")


Then I went for the winter retreat in 2010 and was hoping to have some private time with him like in other occasions. It was there that I saw his indifference and realised I actually meant nothing to him. I understood that he was just playing with me and that I was not the only woman. I was feeling frustrated and very sad because I understood this was normal for him and that after me, there would be others suffering the same fate.

I said to myself I had to give myself a time and leave all this, because I was becoming afraid that if I left the Pathgate entourage I would be cursed and ruined by his powerful means.

In Easter 2011 I met my actual husband and started going out with him. I understood what normal life was and wanted to find a way to escape Pathgate. I continued seeing PY in Italy, in my place in Athens, but I was really afraid of him and what could happen to me. I had to find a way to leave him and everyone.

In Autumn 2011 I decided to move back to Italy and live with the man who is now my husband. I said to PY I wanted to go back to Italy to help him create a centre in Italy like in Greece so he wouldn’t suspect anything. I moved in January 2012 and in early February there was a seminar in Milan. I didn’t invite him to my home in Milan and only went to pick him up at the hotel and translated his lessons.

It was then PY understood what was going on, and after the last day of lessons, he started screaming at me over dinner in front of everyone, and offensively saying that I was going to have a terrible future because I had lost the motivation and so on… I can’t remember everything he said. At the end he slapped my face in front of everyone.

I didn’t cry, tried to be calm and then went home. Before entering my apartment I cried in the car, called my mother who knew what happened, and I felt lucky to have at least her hearing me out and helping me.

It was the last time I saw PY.

I was free.

But I was scared he would interfere in my future, that he would do something evil to me or my beloved family.

I got pregnant the same year and lost the baby. After some examinations the result showed that the baby had Down Syndrome. I was shocked and thought this might have something to do with PY. I started suffering from panic attacks and went to see a psychiatrist. I took some medication for a few months.

Then I got married and now I have a normal happy life with two kids.

It’s only after years that I understood that PY's influence was bullshit. Yet today, even if I feel free from it, I still check Pathgate’s website to see what is going on, and if he still teaches.

I want to share my story because I want to show women that the line between normality and getting involved in a cult is very subtle, and if you are in a difficult period, it’s very easy to be taken advantage of. Don’t be scared of what people tell you in there, nothing bad will happen to you. Buddhism is not like this. You can live a normal life after leaving.

Blog post: [pathgatesurvivors.com]

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: Whitelotus88 ()
Date: November 17, 2019 05:15AM

I was shock by how all disciple respected,served, and address PY as Rinpoche from cup of tea to meal serving desserts is so up to scale as serving a holy master. We used to call py as Sifu. Over the years the center have since added lots of new faces especially beautiful young kids th came all over the globe. During the retreat the disciples are not allow to chit chat.But the impression from the Asian student I get have this unwelcome discriminated look on their face not sure what’s going on in their mind.They do laughs and small talk among themselves but not to me. Probably behind me . Having to sleep in the same room in one of the bunk bed make me so stress out and outcast. Boarding and food are free but you are welcome to offer money in an envelope. Either way everyone need to pick up some chore / housekeeping .Every Friday they have a end of week kind of ceremony where a grand bouquet of flower was offering to Py by one or more student for appreciation and photo shooting is taking place. Over all it was a very comfortable retreat center filled with lots of fruit and food only breakfast lunch is served with vegetarian dinner you get a bowl of soup during retreat .Py will scheduled a dinner treat for student just before leaving home usually his favorite restaurant.He have now a beautiful Romanian disciple to run his errant like driving picking up dropping off disciple to restaurant to have dinner with PY .she also do translation for PY along with her mom they been traveling with PY to many country he give teaching like Singapore ,Hong Kong for shopping and eating ECt
as he personally mention .Py come to the center for lunch where Anita cook up some Momo dumpling for everyone. PY have 2 young girl seating right next to his personal seat and fruit are specially cut and decorated for him.he would beat some and personally hand feed the left over to the teenage girl with beautiful long hair next to him seem like only she get hand pick over to sit on that spot. All and all everyone look at him with devotion trust and respect.

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Re: Powerful Woman of Eternity
Posted by: Whitelotus88 ()
Date: November 17, 2019 05:16AM

I was shock by how all disciple respected,served, and address PY as Rinpoche from cup of tea to meal serving desserts is so up to scale as serving a holy master. We used to call py as Sifu. Over the years the center have since added lots of new faces especially beautiful young kids th came all over the globe. During the retreat the disciples are not allow to chit chat.But the impression from the Asian student I get have this unwelcome discriminated look on their face not sure what’s going on in their mind.They do laughs and small talk among themselves but not to me. Probably behind me . Having to sleep in the same room in one of the bunk bed make me so stress out and outcast. Boarding and food are free but you are welcome to offer money in an envelope. Either way everyone need to pick up some chore / housekeeping .Every Friday they have a end of week kind of ceremony where a grand bouquet of flower was offering to Py by one or more student for appreciation and photo shooting is taking place. Over all it was a very comfortable retreat center filled with lots of fruit and food only breakfast lunch is served with vegetarian dinner you get a bowl of soup during retreat .Py will scheduled a dinner treat for student just before leaving home usually his favorite restaurant.He have now a Romanian disciple to run his errant like driving picking up dropping off disciple to restaurant to have dinner with PY used to be the older Anita job.she also do translation for PY along with her mom they been traveling with PY to many country he give teaching like Singapore ,Hong Kong for shopping and eating ECt
as he personally mention .Py come to the center for lunch every Sunday where Anita cook up some Momo dumpling for everyone. PY have 2 young girl seating right next to his personal seat and fruit are specially cut and decorated for him.he would eat some and personally hand feed the left over to the teenage girl with beautiful long hair next to him seem like only she get hand pick over to sit on that spot. All and all everyone look at him with devotion trust and respect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2019 05:23AM by Whitelotus88.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: November 17, 2019 06:16AM

Chime, I salute your bravery!
Great to have you with us.
Every individual coming forward shares strength with us all. Thank you.
In turn I hope you know all of us freedom fighters empathise deeply, and send you masses of good wishes and just huge positivity.

It’s only after years that I understood that PY's influence was bullshit.
Thank you for saying it so clearly.
One day, if you'd be willing, I think it'd help people if you shared some of your thoughts / experiences on the deprogramming journey.

Don’t be scared of what people tell you in there, nothing bad will happen to you. Buddhism is not like this. You can live a normal life after leaving.
Again, thank you for saying this so clearly.
With the particularly hurtful experience you were subjected to, and became the victor over, that's extra powerful.

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Scientific research into abuse in Tibetan Buddhist communities
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: November 23, 2019 10:21PM

Here is the recent paper by Dr. Anne Iris Miriam Anders from the Ludwig-Maximilians-University Munich’s Institute of Social and Cultural Anthropology:

Silencing and Oblivion of Psychological Trauma, Its Unconscious Aspects, and Their Impact on the Inflation of Vajrayana. An Analysis of Cross-Group Dynamics and Recent Developments in Buddhist Groups Based on Qualitative Data.

Qualitative data was extracted from survey responses from victims and witnesses of abuse in Tibetan Buddhist communities, such as Rigpa, Shambhala, Ogyen Kunzang Choling and Pathgate.

Abstract of the paper:

Quote

The commercialization of Buddhist philosophy has led to decontextualization and indoctrinating issues across groups, as well as abuse and trauma in that context. Methodologically, from an interdisciplinary approach, based on the current situation in international Buddhist groups and citations of victims from the ongoing research, the psychological mechanisms of rationalizing and silencing trauma were analyzed. The results show how supposedly Buddhist terminology and concepts are used to rationalize and justify economic, psychological and physical abuse. This is discussed against the background of psychological mechanisms of silencing trauma and the impact of ignoring the unconscious in that particular context. Inadequate consideration regarding the teacher–student relationship, combined with an unreflective use of Tibetan honorary titles and distorted conceptualizations of methods, such as the constant merging prescribed in so-called 'guru yoga', resulted in giving up self-responsibility and enhanced dependency. These new concepts, commercialized as 'karma purification' and 'pure view', have served to rationalize and conceal abuse, as well as to isolate the victims. Therefore, we are facing societal challenges, in terms of providing health and economic care to the victims and implementing preventive measures. This use of language also impacts on scientific discourse and Vajrayana itself, and will affect many future generations.

Dr. Anders’ paper contributes to initial scientific investigation into the mechanics underlying the abuse in Tibetan Buddhist communities and its impact on victims. It serves as an invaluable foundation for future research into this phenomenon.

The full paper can be read here: [www.mdpi.com]

Blog post: [pathgatesurvivors.com]

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PY the martial arts teacher
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: December 04, 2019 10:17AM

PY the martial arts teacher

Many thanks to anon27 for his comprehensive debunking of PY’s supposed claim of superiority and teaching ability in martial arts (and by extension, Buddhism), in response to a question from me. It is important and beneficial for ex-students’ recovery. Text has been slightly edited to correct typos and maintain anonymity.



Dear anon27,

In the [CEI] forum you stated that PY failed as a martial arts teacher.

In PY's defence, he constantly brings up the medals his students won in competitions. And he would talk about his travels, his connection to the Wu Style Taichi lineage masters and Internal Arts teacher. So we were led into believe he had a very successful time in martial arts and he left at his peak, because he found out education is the way to go. This is the same for his time as a dance teacher in university.

In your [20] years with him, what would be a more balanced or accurate portrayal to help us break some of the above programming?

Thank you,
karmicwind



Hi dear karmicwind,

This is a good question!

What we always have to remember is that PY is a master of blending fact and fiction.
Exactly like his current students believe they're getting the secret, real Buddhism, his martial arts students believed they were getting "the real deal". We all spent a lot of time and money on it, so we were invested in making it seem worthwhile, and making him out to be someone special. It served us to big him up.

PY has studied Buddhism, has spent time with HH Penor Rinpoche ... but where is PY's proof of endorsement? Nobody has ever seen it.
It's like a person attending a course but not getting a certificate, then claiming because he was there, he knows it all. It's just not credible, and actually proof he doesn't have that endorsement.
Same with martial arts.
He claims the Lama robes, yet didn't do the required course of study. This is objective fact. I think it's the same with martial arts.

Also to remember, like with the Buddhism, if a student does practice, even under a fake teacher, we will get results.
PY claims those results are down to him.
They are not.
Anyone doing meditation and prayer will advance on the path.
Anyone practicing martial arts will get better at them.
The key point is: in martial arts, none of his students are recognised teachers.
After all this time, and PY's supposed amazing ability and success, there would be a whole series of schools set up. This is what happens with other teachers.
How is PY therefore measuring "success"? What achievements can he point to? None.
Where are all these so-called medal winning students? Why is there NOBODY recognised anywhere that was a student of PY's in either dance of martial arts?
Why doesn't he say where the medals were won? Just "oh yeah, lots of medals". It's like Donald Trump.

I never heard PY taught dance, only that he studied it. Maybe he taught a bit.
From the little I heard, Newcastle Uni basically kicked him off the campus as a martial arts teacher because after a while they realised he was dangerous.
For a long time, when PY "taught at Newcastle Uni", he was in fact just teaching on a patch of grass that happened to be on Uni grounds. He wasn't associated with NU in any way.
He did teach for some time in one of their halls ... but that's a case of him paying them rent every week to use it, it wasn't endorsement or association.
That he gives that impression is another indicator that he's lying about something.

1. I had a very good long term friend who is a student of Master Lam Kam Chuen.
[lamkamchuen.com]

Master Lam worked for Hong Kong (HK) Customs, has done TV series on Chi Kung, and has a very high reputation with proper official people, both in the martial arts world and in the wider world.
Master Lam is from HK, knew PY directly, and knows his reputation back in Hong Kong.
Master Lam was very negative about PY (in the indirect Chinese way, and also surprisingly directly), and this friend of mine told me it was well known in Master Lam's circle that PY left a trail of destroyed students behind him.
This friend and I stopped being friends because he basically thought I was stupid to keep following PY.
Sadly, it took me years to figure out he was right.
You can contact Master Lam to ask about PY - maybe pose as a naif student asking for a reference. You'll see what response you get.

2. When I said he was a failed teacher I meant:
PY couldn't make his living from it, because only few students would stay with him (us brainwashed ones).
Everyone with real interest or experience in Martial Arts left very quickly, often having been attacked by PY, both physically and mentally.
That's why he moved into religion. He needed a better income stream, and a better cover.
Also, that his martial arts students never became really good, even after years and serious dedication.
In the same way that PY sabotages our Buddhist practice by introducing lies and a lot of fear, he sabotaged our martial arts practice. This way, we constantly struggle to advance, which makes it look like PY has achieved amazing things. He makes it 1000 times more difficult than it needs to be, so we all think "wow, if it's this difficult, PY must be amazing".
Do you see what I mean?

3. I've not seen one person achieve anything like PY's claimed level of expertise in Martial Arts.
Even Kunzang's form is pretty shitty for someone who has been dedicated for 25+ years.
PY just doesn't share what he knows, if he does actually know what he claims to know.
This means he is a fake teacher, even if he does know what he claims to know.
Interestingly too, no teacher who does have extraordinary ability in martial arts says they do. They don't advertise it.
PY is the only one to have videos of void power on the web, in fact PY's only claims to ability is based on believing he has "supernormal powers". If we look at him, and his martial arts, without the "supernormal powers" element, suddenly we see he is in fact, very average.
Same with Buddhism - if we take off his robes, what do we see?
An obese bully who acts in a very nasty way to all his students.

4. Look at the comments under the YouTube videos.
All real martial artists say PY is simply ridiculous.
If PY's martial arts powers were real, he could earn millions of $ in Mixed martial arts, or training MMA. He doesn't, and never has.
This is evidence his skills are fake, and that he cannot teach.
He says it's because that doesn't interest him, but that's like me saying "oh yeah, I could be a rock star, but it doesn't interest me". In the real world, that's bullshit. Either be a rock star, or don't talk about it.
He claims he could do anything better than anyone else in Buddhism and martial arts ... but spends his time hidden away in Newscastle, teaching a bunch of zombies, who after many years of being his students are still very poor human beings and who display very little ability of their own.
This just isn't real. If PY could do what he says he can do, he would have a much higher profile, and recognition.

5. Look at these links:
a. [thesanghakommune.org]
Quote

The Chinese perspective on PY's martial arts:
Sample: "Lama Dondrup Dorje, in the above video is ... continuously misrepresenting Chinese culture, and brain-washing Westerners into following nonsense and believing in religiously inspired mythology. None of this Lama Dondrup Dorje expression is real. ... non-Chinese people fall for what Lama Dondrup Dorje is teaching. The people in this video are the victims of a ‘cult’ mentality ... These people are brain-washed to act in a manner that Lama Dondrup Dorje requires ... How crazy all this seems from a genuine Chinese cultural perspective ... Lama Dondrup Dorje and his misled ‘Taijiquan’ students, represent delusion in action, and displays how suitably motivated individuals can throw themselves around a padded floor, if the psycho-physical climate requires it."

b. [www.bullshido.net]
Quote

Sample: "[Peter Young's video is] an interesting example of an unusual, but by no means 'supernatural' phenomenon. Music hall and vaudeville performers used the same principles back in the late 1800s, often presented as a demonstration of "human magnetism"; modern stage hypnotists and faith healers, likewise."

c. [www.bullshido.net]
Quote

Sample: "I can tell you an episode that in the gym where I learned became famous: [Peter Young] came to do an internship with us a Chinese teacher and wanted to show how people were flying with his Qi power; so my teacher gave him to try it with an experienced student (30 years of practice) ....
When in front of everyone he could not make him fly as he wanted (he did not move him an inch). Peter Young got very angry ... He tried to find excuses of various kinds, but the truth was clear to everyone ... go very cautious .... very very very ..."

6. The medals were won by a small group of early students, at various events, but these included many of PY's own events!!
I am one of the medal winners. Those medals mean absolutely nothing, they're total bullshit, handed out like sweeties, mainly for just turning up.
Those medal winners also included Michael C. [surname redacted] - do you know who that is? If so, look at him, and see if you can believe he's a successful result of many years of martial arts training.
Some of those early students were also really weird people ... like many of the current students are now. If we met them outside the group, we would stay away from them. Even meeting them within the group, there are very few that I felt I wanted to know. From what you say, I suspect you felt the same. That's another reason we don't have lots of contact details of current and former students.
Real martial arts classes create strong long-term friendships. That's a big part of it.
PY discourages friendships. This is very telling.

7. When any of us students actually got any good at martial arts, PY would drive them away, because we started to beat him!
After a few years, I beat him. It wasn't even that difficult. I was so surprised that I didn't press my advantage, and let him win, because I was embarrassed to beat him. However, it was clear to us both that his skill was not as high as he claimed.
It was soon after that that he said he was abandoning martial arts because he moved into Buddhism as a higher form of practice.
If you take away the hypnosis / Derren Brown type stuff, then PY used to be able to move well, but that's it. I think it was mainly his dance training, and his neurosis-driven focus.
This is one of the big reasons he stopped his students practicing martial arts. They were starting to reach the limits of PY's ability, and he knew if he let them carry on, they'd see him for what he is.

8. Because there is so much bullshit in the martial arts world, all respectable teachers are part of official bodies or are endorsed by other teachers. PY is part of no official body, and endorsed by nobody. This in itself is a very telling thing.
Where is PY's proof of any lineage in Wu style?
If you look at Master Lam's website, there's loads of verifiable information on his lineage AND what his students / disciples are now doing.
PY has none of this - no lineage, and no inheritors. This is very telling.

9. Many of the current students spent years training in martial arts. Then, suddenly, he stopped them. This is either a sign of a very bad teacher ("I'll make you train for years, and pay huge amounts of money, then take it all away and tell you it's all shit for some vague cosmic reason"); or of someone who knows that if the student continued, PY would be exposed as a fake, because the student would reach the limits of PY's ability.

Objectively, it comes down to this:
Many people invested a lot of money and time in PY's martial arts training.
None of them have achieved anything with it.
Therefore it was a bad investment.
Yet, he claims he is one of the most amazing martial arts guys in the world, and one of the best teachers in the world.
Therefore he is a fake.

I hope that helps!



Blog post: [pathgatesurvivors.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2019 10:22AM by karmicwind.

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