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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: January 21, 2019 01:02AM

This is a very interesting project many survivors of abuse in Buddhist communities, including survivors of PY and Pathgate, are contributing to:

Dr. Miriam Anders from the LMU University in Munich, Germany is conducting a three year research, financed by the Federal Ministry of Education and Research. Part of the research is also to examine possible harm individuals have experienced in Buddhist communities or by Buddhist leaders via cultish / manipulative structures, sexual abuse, spiritual or emotional abuse, violence etc.

If you want to support this research or if you know people who are effected by harm within Buddhist communities or by Buddhist teachers and who are open to support a research project, please kindly forward this email or information to them.

Here is a link to some testimonies already submitted:



In August 2018, a three-year research project started at the Ludwig-Maximilians-University Munich under the leadership of Dr. Miriam Anders, funded by the German Federal Ministry of Education and Research (BMBF).

The objective of the project is preservation of the knowledge conveyed in Tibetan medicine as well as its foundations within Buddhist philosophy. It covers three areas:

• translations of interviews with physicians of Tibetan medicine
• health and resources of seminar participants in Buddhist centers
• knowledge transfer, education and training

Within the framework of this research project, health and mental health of Buddhist seminar and meditation group participants will be investigated. Furthermore, interviews will be conducted with people affected of manipulation, exploitation or abuse in that context. Details are available at [].

For links to fill in questionnaires in German or English language, please contact the email address: There will be more questionnaires available for a period of three years. Additionally, interviews will be conducted at different locations (Vienna, Munich, Kathmandu etc.). Any appointments for theses interviews may be arranged with the same email address.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: February 12, 2019 01:15AM

This is a message from a former student of Peter Young's, posted on the Pathgate Survivors webwsite: []

I’d like to tell you about Peter Y the Martial Artist,
(I must apologise as I’m not the most educated but I’m trying to make this readable)
My name is John and in the late 70’s I read a magazine article about Tai Chi (I believed it and wanted to know more,). My best friend’s wife trained as a dancer and her teacher was a Master. I went to his Gym, it was on the corner of Clayton Street and Pink Lane in Newcastle. On the front door was a poster saying what was taught there, as I remember There was
Shaolin Kung Fu
Ballroom Dancing
Something like Cha Cha Dancing?
Anyway, Peter told me that I’d have to train in his Shaolin class as ‘the Internal Arts’ were reserved for his inner school
Anyway, several months later, I was one of his ‘top’ students but I knew something was wrong (I come from a Travelling Family who fight for fun), there was no contact, and there was no inner school?
I parted contact with Peter (however all his talk about Chinese Martial Arts had wetted my appetite) I joined Edmund Ng’s ‘Choy Lay Fut’ club in Newcastle.
Edmund is the guy who does the Lion Dancing at Chinese New Year.
A Great Club, with Great fighters (Alan H, proper smashed me up)
Word got round that Peter was saying he was trained in Choy Lay Fut, Edmund was pretty pi##ed off, Arranged a meeting ( it was at the Happiness Inn Restaurant at the Haymarket in Newcastle)
(I now understand about lineage in the Martial Arts, if you teach you state who your teacher was
Peter couldn’t}
Anyway as I could fight, Edmund took me under his wing, (the bloke is a pretty tough guy)
Edmund told Peter never to pretend to teach Chinese Martial Arts again and Peter barked back at Edmund,
Edmund then walked up to him and beat Peter up (He beat Peter up bad, there was blood streaming from his left ear).
Peter then had to pay for our meal (there was at least 8 of us) and promised never to tell anyone he knew Choy Lay Fut.
For relevance to your site, Peter never told/taught me about Buddhism, he told me he was a Taoist Master (which I believed) he is pretty charismatic.
I know that some will question this however luckily I have been on his path gate website and you can see his martial arts videos, they are proper dancing videos, (any dancer can emulate any martial arts move only better) (the early ones feature KW, ask him)
Sorry for this ramble but this guy Peter is a nasty bit of work,
He really undermined my confidence for the period I was with him

(Just for reference, as well as training with Edmund I have also trained with a lot more Martial Artists (Peter used to forbid this), for example John Aiken from High Bridge but the best (in my view) is the Hartlepool Boy Mr John Dawson, a true Teacher.

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Peter Young barred from entering Australia
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: May 08, 2019 10:54AM

PY barred from entering Australia

After more than a decade of illegally teaching religion and receiving money from Australians, sources have reported to us that “Lama” Dondrup Dorje A.K.A. Peter Young (PY) has been barred from entering Australia during his attempted entry in January 2019.

PY was stopped by the Australian Border Force for trying to enter the country as a visitor on a UK passport, when he is there to generate income from his distorted brand of Buddhist teaching and Tai Chi classes. He has never applied for a permit to work as a religious teacher all these years. He is a Buddhist teacher fraud committing immigration fraud and tax fraud. On top of that, he encouraged his local student host to violate building regulations. This non-compliance placed his student at risk for breaking civil laws. These are all illegal and are criminal activities.

We are heartened by the Australian authorities’ response, as this will protect real Buddhists and aspiring Buddhists in Australia from being corrupted by PY. This also stops PY from further harming the current Pathgate students in Australia. Hopefully, this move by the Australian Border Force sends a clear signal that causes the current students to think critically:

“If my teacher is authentic, why would he be stopped by government authorities?”
“As Buddhists, are we exempted from the laws of the land?”
“What is our teacher’s stance on this and how are his activities and actions reflecting it?”

It is actually common knowledge to students of PY that he operates under the radar of authorities of the countries he “teaches” in. PY explains this as “not drawing unnecessary attention.” He actually boasts about this to students frequently, as this has allowed him to slip in and out of countries quietly, and students to facilitate the movement with large sums of money on his behalf for many years.

Ex-students have come to realise that this is another of PY’s manipulation and brainwashing. For PY to believe that he is an superior spiritual teacher who is above the laws of the land, indicates his blatant lack of respect for them. And to passively encourage and therefore implicate his students into breaking laws for his personal agenda, shows how little care he has for them. These are classic signs of a narcissist and a sociopath.

Another way to explain this: PY knows that he is a fake, so he cannot establish legal religious entities within the countries he operates in. The bottom line is that he does not have the credentials, recognition, and legitimacy to set up a legally recognised Buddhist centre with financial accountability anywhere in the world, even within his native UK. Any attempt to do so by himself and his students will give the game away.

International efforts are now expanding to get authorities to investigate PY and Pathgate in the various countries he has a presence in. We would like to encourage anyone who reads this and/or has a loved one in Pathgate and is concerned for their social, psychological and financial well-being, to report to your local authorities PY’s and Pathgate’s illegal activities. Your effort in preventing this cult from causing further harm is very much a public service, and is greatly appreciated by survivors of Pathgate.

Blog Post

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Date: May 21, 2019 07:23PM

Hello guys, been a while! Sorry for that..

I would like to elaborate little bit on this message that was written here:
"When there was a Kung Fu picnic, the skies cleared up before the picnic and then got cloudy after the picnic. He did all sorts of Tai Chi and Kung Fu demonstrations. In one of his demonstrations which lasted for an hour he had his special students surround him and try to hold him and he would wiggle his hand and they would all be flung off of him, running away. He did this repeatedly. And with this one guy, he started moving his hand up and down and this was throwing this guy up and down next to him that was close to him. Apparently he can make students laugh uncontrollably for a half an hour.

Anyways, it just got too weird for me. All I was interested in (and the reason I came down in the first place) was the Buddhist philosophy, kindness, compassion, tolerance, etc. which he did treat, but I really didn't enjoy his lectures like the books I have read of HH the Dalai Lama. It all turned into unleashing your Chi to amazing results to obtain powers of control and ability that you never could reach by yourself.

Now a friend of mine (the one who originally went up with me to the retreat in Newcastle) has recently got back from a week long retreat in Greece with him. She just told me that she has decided to sell her van (which used to be a prized possesion of hers) for less than it's worth, and join a three year course with him. I'm just worried about her"

- What i see here, is the same thing that happened to me. The students get stripped off from what they have known in their life very fast, than fear comes in, and also very fast, the people get pulled in, by being impressed by "supernatural powers".

What i see is that this thing goes very fast with people. People make quick decisions. While habitually, traditionally, Tibetans take up to 12 years to carefully examine the teacher with great scrutiny.

This shows how important it is to check and find out about the teacher.
This is what didnt happen with most of his students.

Therefore i think its true that this guy is a fraud.

I THINK that this guy discovered some new things from certain practices such as the Qigong practice, seeing he gained some control over his energy and got very excited and full of himself with it, and dollar signs where jumping out of his eyes that time. "chi-ching!", and set up this way by impressing others with energetic tricks and skills and arrogant expressions such as "My Buddha eyes will be too much for you to look at" to directly or indirectly convince people that are very new to such things, and thus easy to impress and pulled over into such things, as its very interesting, for example..

At the same time i think it's just self-pampering through such remarks increasing self-confidence which actually are known as arrogance. When it becomes too much.

I think he is still lost by this, and knows it deep down, but perhaps dont know how to let go of it really..

so i think this man has indeed, for some part, a self-serving agenda.
I can not say how much %, because i think i have also seen moments of true sincere benevolence. However, grossly, i see a lot of harm happening there also.

Of which i think is not allways on purpose, but often is.
As he really bullies people publicly.

He might be very frustrated. Maybe because he wants results.
Maybe fast results. Impatience.

I know him for his anger towards "Arrogance", why?..
Would this be because it's a threat to another person that is in fact ALSO Arrogant? I wonder..

At the same time, Arrogance, spiritually, is known as, potentially a very destructive force.

But to try to slay that like BUFFY(the vampire slayer xD)? I think can be very harmful, very dangerous. Traumatising..

But there could be more to it.
I think it can go both ways.
It can SERVE to bring one into the PAIN, Insecurity and Ignorance that's behind it, but it can also go drastically wrong.

Therefore, i think he needs to be at least, way more careful.
Definetely with Western public, as we are not used to it.
And definetely are not the ones to take such offenses lightly.

I think, this shows at least a lack of Awareness in him.
but possibly more sinister than that.

Im not completely sure about it but i find it little bit interesting and i have often seen expressions in his aura that shown me great darkness.
Therefore i think there is something not right about him. As if he is often, moved by evil thought. So this page that talks about the Surangama Sutra, in which Lord Buddha warns about demonic lama's, this may be one of such.
Also lama's can be demonised. Being unaware of it there is nothing to do about it. They might even consider their angry actions as justified, necessary and HOLY.

And i find it DEFINETELY, EXTREMELY interesting this guy is allways checking on me. So he MUST have something to hide, for he NEVER responds to me when i seek to somehow, bring cessation to the situation, seek some way both can move on with life. But never no response. Only stigma and terror.

Sorry that i'm still finding it hard to figure things out and be completely sure about things. I must get moving in life than i'll probably be more clear. But i'm being seriously held back, suppressed. Using all my doubts and weaknesses as a weapon against me.

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A History of Deceit (1)
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: August 10, 2019 05:11PM

I have wondered over the years why Peter Yeung (PY) didn’t have more students from his local area in Newcastle, or the UK for that matter; international students make up the bulk of his current following.

PY brainwashed these students by explaining that locals lack the merit to learn from around an authentic lama. But a simple examination would reveal the more straightforward truth — locals have had 40 years to familiarise themselves with PY’s true character and methods.

Quoting anon27 from this blog post:


Over 20 years, every student we saw that achieve things either in Buddhism, in martial arts, or in life, or who had good relationships in the real world, left Peter Yeung.

Here are some comments extracted from various forums regarding experiences with PY:


Posted November 16, 2007
Had to laugh at this. This is absolutely hilarious. This is none other than Peter Yeung who hails from Newcastle in England. He is a FAKE. He is a master of having his photograph taken with respected martial artists and spiritual leaders and then making up titles for himself. He also used to beat up his students in his Wing Chun class. A bully,liar and a cheat. Stay well clear!!



Posted May 16, 2013
He lives in my area and is well known as a fraud and a bully. He makes up titles for himself. In the past he's been sifu, sensei, sigung, dr, and now lama. He is none of these. I would advise people to stay away from this charlatan. It would be better for your health, sanity, and wallet.

Posted May 16, 2013
...Glassy eyed gullible 'students' as compliant 'victims'. Guru cult-worship at it's most extreme.
Seriously, anyone taken in by this needs their head examined.
Do you research folks. There's loads of stuff all over the net about this guy and countless other con-men.

Posted May 17, 2013
Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the thread but it makes me angry that Mr, Sifu, Dr, Lama Dondrop Dorje (real name Peter Young) can get away with his brainwashing cult like activities. Please think before you listen to a damn word he says.



Posted June 2, 2012
Yes this is Peter Young aka Yang Dashi.
I knew some internal martial arts teachers in Newcastle upon Tyne when Young was a teacher of Internal Arts. They had nothing good to say about him at that time. Young would tell students that he had to wear dark glasses as the power of his gaze could otherwise cause harm.
Since then he has progressed along the route of becoming a guru and his organisation (the Pathgate Institute] something of a cult.
His demonstrations of empty force are farcical, his organisation is a cult and he is very much a man to avoid.



Posted November 15, 2017
I am familiar with Lama Dondrup Dorje who is one and the same as Peter Yeung who used to teach Taoist Martial Arts in Newcastle, England. He has reincarnated himself as a Buddhist Lama and is probably best steered clear of.

Posted November 16, 2017
I have trained with one of his indoor students from way back. Peter Yeung is a martial artist of high standing but has very much taken the left hand path. I would not consider training with him nor would I advise others to do so.

Posted November 17, 2017
The contactless fighting is Kong Jin or Empty Force. Unfortunately it only seems to work on ones own students.
Peter Yeung is a highly competent martial artist but I would not choose to train with him nor would advise anyone else so to do.



Posted April 1, 2018
Honestly, stay well clear of Peter Yeung (Dr. Lama, Sufi, Master or whatever title he makes up for himself). He is well known in this part of the world, Newcastle UK as a liar, cheat, and a bully who used to beat up his students.
His 'followers' are like members of a brainwashing cult. You might as well flush your hard earned cash down the lavatory !
Sorry to be so blunt, but sometimes you need to be to get your point across.


With regards to the below underlined statement…


Posted 4th September 2018
And once people accept a little crap in their beliefs it's easier to pull them down the rabbit hole - just a little further, one step at a time. I even heard one defend Peter writing letters to magazines in his students name, praising him as a Buddha etc. To anyone familiar with Cantonese english-speakers the mistakes leapt out at you.


… archived Pathgate webpages reveal a now deleted section called "Media Report on Dr. P Young". One can’t help but notice the consistency of writing style in these articles. []

The Pathgate website also used to include huge sections devoted to praising PY:
Testimony of The Miraculous Acts of Truth []
Reflection On Being A Student of Lama Dondrup Dorje []

When I read through them before I became a student, I remembered thinking that the writing all appear remarkably similar in tone, as if they were edited by the same person. I also had lingering doubts about why a so-called Buddhist teacher would need such lavish praise from his students, it just seemed over the top, and unaligned with Buddhist ethics.

Notably, PY instructed these sections to be removed in 2012, as he evolved his persona from martial artist to full-fledged Buddhist teacher — I was around when this happened.


The below post is consistent with the testimony of “J”, who wrote about his experience with PY in the 70s here, regarding his pattern of claiming expertise and authority to teach when he has none:


Posted 6th September 2018
This is the Peter Yeung I was talking about. He started as a Lau Gar teacher back when Lau Gar was doing well in UK kickboxing comps. Then a real Lau Gar teacher gave Peter an impromptu hands-on seminar in Lau Gar and when Peter recovered, lo and behold, he was a tai chi master.



The following is sent to our Facebook page early this year:


19 Feb, 2019
I just want to say I think its great you guys made a page for survivors. I was there at Palyul retreat in 2005 when Peter Young was called out as a liar by Penor Rinpoche. My roomate at retreat was a girl Peter was hitting on. She showed me videos of his "bullshido" to which I openly laughed and said she couldn't really think he was legit. she got very defensive, told him, and he became aggressive to me for the following years...
...Peter's is a total joke at Palyul NY summer retreat. I even saw Penor's entourage of monks take his cushion away from their seating area trying to give him a hint that he wasn't welcome to be sitting with them.


Peter was talking about how many students he has all over the world, naming all the countries where he recieved donations for Penor Rinpoche during a mandala offering. Penor Rinpoche said he wouldn't take money from liars.
The woman that gave a mandala offering before him was naming all the countries her donations came from too, thats likely why Peter felt he had to one up her.
He had a guy filming it for him and signaled for him to stop when Penor R. Called him out. This was in front of something like 100 people.


Again, this corresponds to prior testimonies, in this case provided by a forum poster here, who said:


Date: December 02, 2008
Aside from his first name, the only thing I ever heard Penor Rinpoche call Peter was a liar. This was during the summer retreat, where Rinpoche said he did not “take money from liars”, and refused Peter’s monetary offering in front of the entire group of retreatants.


Finally, a recent comment by an ex-student on this blog post.


May 15, 2019
Thankyou for this website. My husband and I were students of PY in the late 90’s. I must admit, at first we were drawn in and totally influenced by him. However, over time we experienced fear and confusion. We were often told that as students we were not wise enough to have opinions and could not trust our own thoughts. There are many negative experiences but the worst was when I told PY that I was leaving and would not be coming back. He was furious and lost his temper, he then went on to tell me that my husband was not right for me and would make me have an unhappy life. He then said that my children were in danger and would suffer as a consequence of leaving. As you can imagine I was distraught.
I am a little nervous of sharing this information even after all these years, but I am happy to if it helps other people in a similar situation.
On a positive note we are still happily married and our children have grown up to have great lives.


Peter Yeung's history of deception extends back for 40 years. Apologists may believe that critics who speak out are isolated cases — disgruntled ex-students or jealous competitors. But this is simply not true. Given the small size of PY's following and the secrecy surrounding his organisation, the amount of testimonies and allegations against him, as I have compiled here, should be considered extremely significant.

Blog Post: []

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 05:17PM by karmicwind.

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A Timeline of PY
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: August 29, 2019 11:57AM

A Timeline of PY

This is anon27's timeline of PY. He was a student at Pathgate for 20 years.


PY was a small-time martial arts teacher, with about 6 dedicated students and 20-40 casual students spread across London and Newcastle. He was just trying to break into the alternative healing / wellness world. He'd bought a large house with a pool in the basement with the first, and only, brainwashed person, a lady. The plan was for him to set up some kind of treatment centre there, based around PY's chi kung power.

She was super dedicated to him - in love / obsessed with him actually, but he was very casual with her. A few months later, she'd split away, keeping the house. He was very pissed off, and gave no real reasons for what had happened, but said he was "letting it all go", so we should all just forget about it. We never saw or heard from her again.

Later it became clear the house / money to buy it had always been hers, which is the real reason why he "let it go". He'd given us the impression that it was the result of, and next step with, a very successful business he'd been building. It wasn't.


PY's claims of superpowers became much more pronounced, but all from martial arts. He lost all his "normal" students over the next time period, leaving a very small core group. Even within that small group, most if not all of us left PY at at least one point or another, but came back.


He started the 3 year Chi Kung foundation study. What was striking about it was that despite PY saying there would be exams and tests, there never were. The way he taught it was also a lot of waffle. It took me years to realise that without any kind of testing, none of us knew if we were "doing it right", there was no sense of advancement, and PY didn't have to actually teach anything!

This meant nobody really learned anything more than if they had picked up a book, but we were paying top dollar of course. It was all martial arts with supposedly esoteric Chi Kung.


I became aware he was talking a lot more about Buddhism, and started mentioning his trips to see HH. This is when he openly spoke about infiltrating HH's circle and presence by pretending to be a photographer. He was proud that he'd found this sneaky way in, because it allowed him into places he otherwise wouldn't have got into, and to be physically way closer to HH than he would otherwise have been, which also meant other people thought he was a lot more important than he was.


I went for a class, and things had changed. Prayers had started, as had prostrations to PY. He talked a heck of a lot, then we did a bit of martial arts. It all struck me as extraordinary. “Classes” had become "teachings", more often. PY had become fixated on creating his enlightened lama persona, and was well on the way to doing so, though martial arts were still a big part of things and he wasn't quite as inflated as he then became.


PY had fully become who we now know him as, but wasn't quite as obvious about it as he is now. At Namdroling, PY was in very bad character throughout, which I later realised was partly because he was manipluating the final steps with various people around the monastery to getting his lama robes, and it wasn't as easy as he'd thought it would be. He got his lama robes, and to me at least, this marked his terminal decline. He'd become so nasty, I packed up my stuff and left.


Over the years I fought the brainwashing, reached my conclusions, but still had a few doubts, and wanted to see what had become of the students who had stayed (I figured that if they'd advanced more than me, it would have evidence I was wrong), so I went for a class. It was as I'd remembered, but worse. The students who had stayed hadn't changed one bit! They'd in fact gotten more suppressed and introverted.

I thoroughly checked afterwards what I'd learned and not learned, and found that PY had spent hours saying nothing useful. I went to one more class, to know for absolutely sure, and that was it for me.

Blog Post: []

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2019 12:03PM by karmicwind.

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How PY financially exploits his students
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: August 30, 2019 09:02PM

How PY financially exploits his students

Having extracted myself from Pathgate before completely depleting my financial resources, and before completely losing my connection to mainstream society, I can’t help but feel immense relief. I spent much time reacquainting myself with authentic Buddhist teachings and filtering out PY’s distortions, in order to free myself from his brainwashing around the Buddhist concept of merit, karma and utilisation of financial resources. This led to my realisation that PY’s relationship with students is nothing more than an exploitative one.

Having personally spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to PY’s cause, and having seen others do the same, I can only say that PY’s exploitation of sincere spiritual aspirants to fuel his narcissism is truly horrifying.

In this post, I will focus on the material or financial aspect of PY’s exploitation. But make no mistake, PY exploits his students in multiple ways.

1. PY portrays himself as a sage who is worthy of receiving offerings

PY, throughout the years, hints to his student that he is a sage, and it is essential to stay close to a “man with knowledge of virtue” (his own translation of kalyanamitra).

He recycles quotes such as “you generate more merit by making offering to a single skin pore of your guru than to countless Buddhas in the 10 directions,” and more recently, loves to quote Chapter 11 of the Sutra Forty-Two Chapters (which incidentally, is his retreat topic this year):


Fields of Blessings

The Buddha said:
“It is better to offer food to a single virtuous person than to one hundred evil people.
“It is better to offer food to one who observes the Five Precepts than to one thousand virtuous people.
“It is better to offer food to one stream-enterer than to ten thousand who observe the Five Precepts.
“It is better to offer food to one once-returner than to one million stream-enterers.
“It is better to offer food to one non-returner than to ten million once-returners.
“It is better to offer food to one arhat than to one hundred million non-returners.
“It is better to offer food to one pratyekabuddha than to one billion arhats.
“It is better to offer food to one of the Buddhas of the three periods of time than to ten billion pratyekabuddhas.
“It is better to offer food to one of ‘no thought’, ‘no abidance’, ‘no cultivation’, and ‘no attainment’ than to a hundred billion Buddhas of the three periods of time.


Through this “teaching”, PY achieves 2 objectives. Firstly, he infers that he is a being beyond the level of a Buddha or pratyekabuddhas. And that making offerings to him would generate infinite merit.

I remember clearly the smug look on PY’s face when he said that very last verse. At that time, I berated myself for picking that up, and reminded myself, “Oh, Rinpoche is reflecting to me the conceit in my mind.” This was yet another case of cognitive dissonance. I had objectively observed the recurrent arrogant behaviour by PY, but within the authoritarian cult environment, the only way for me to resolve the conflicting thoughts was to blame myself. Looking back at it now, I feel nothing but pure disgust.

Secondly, PY discourages students from channelling financial resources into anything other than his own activities. Over the years, PY tells his students that doing charity is useless — their money should be used to propagate Dharma instead. The huge irony here is that PY uses his students’ money to do charity under his very own “Pathgate Partnership Programme”, and claims credit all for himself.

2. PY conditions students to believe material offerings is the key to generate merit

Having deceived students into believing he is worthy of receiving offerings, PY then talks about merit, a lot. “There are 3 ways to generate merit,” he would say. “The best way is to put the teaching into practice. Secondly, serve your teacher. And lastly, make material offerings. I was very fortunate to have done all three with H.H. Penor Rinpoche.”

Then he tells his students, “But since you don’t practise, you don’t know how to serve your teacher, the best way for you to generate merit, is to make material offerings. What if you don't have resources? Give your time and effort.”

That we students are not practising, do not understand how to practise, serve the teacher poorly or lack the opportunity to serve is reinforced by PY constantly.

“Who is practising here? No one!” He would often sneer at us atop his so-called lama seat. PY conditions students to believe that they have such poor spiritual conditions that the only way to ever progress on the path was to make material offerings.

“To understand the teachings, you need merit. You don’t understand the teaching because you do not have enough merit. So how to generate merit? Practise generosity, give!”

This, by the way, is totally inaccurate. Students do not understand PY’s teaching because as noted by anon27, PY’s teaching is extremely confusing. I have first-hand knowledge of this, as I had years of listening and then reverse-engineering his teaching style. I can verify that PY’s teaching lacks structure, is blatantly plagiaristic and lacks substance (more about this in future). He has successfully tricked his students, especially the Westerners into believing they are listening to something extremely profound, when most of his teaching content is already widely available on the internet. I even remembered him spending half a teaching session reading a Wikipedia article from his iPad, and then boasting how eclectic his teaching is.

As a result of the conditioning around merit and the practice of giving, I, for many years, threw myself wholeheartedly into PY’s cause, and seen others do the same.

I've seen a young entrepreneur with 2 successful businesses gave all that up progressively, travelled around the world with PY, and gradually depleted all her resources over a 7-8 year period. This is the same student who goes shopping with PY for his Prada clothing and shoes (PY’s favourite luxury brand), and two Dior suits for PY’s nephew’s wedding, all using students’ money.

I've seen another student who dropped a successful career in the financial industry completely, and spends her time and resources nowadays travelling and supporting PY’s activities and projects; while rubbing her fellow students the wrong way with ever increasing self-righteousness.

I’ve heard how PY instructed a long-time student to sell her investment property years ago, so that she could use the money to travel and attend his classes. The same student, now in middle age, scraps along today in a part-time job and gets put down constantly by PY for her anxiety, fear and cluelessness.

I’ve been told by another ex-student how under PY’s guidance, borrowed money to buy plane tickets to attend his retreat.

I’ve witnessed most of the remaining monks and nuns (around a third of them has left PY) continue to eke out a living working in dead end jobs, only to offer most of their income to PY.

I’ve observed, for the most part, students had become stuck in a rut, because PY destroys their motivation for any material progress in life, unless it has him at the centre of it. I’ve also seen how he set students up for stagnation, by encouraging them to attend more and more of his classes, when they do not have the economic conditions to do so.

As an outsider now, I can’t help but recall how miserable these students actually looked, because PY have programmed them to believe that they are in this economic state due to their poor practice.

I myself, stopped working totally after a few years with PY, because it simply became impossible to hold down a job with the amount of travelling I was doing. “There is nothing more important than attending teaching,” I would remind myself then.

PY had us believe that if we just have enough faith in him, the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas would take care of us. “Just look at me,” PY claims, “I’ve never asked for anything in my life, the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas took care of everything for me.” (This is a blatant lie by the way).

3. PY exploits his students’ feelings of indebtedness to him

Through setting up his students to fail financially, PY utilises the opportunity to present himself as a generous and compassionate teacher. He would display acts of kindness and generosity (always publicly), such as sponsoring group meals, buying clothes, gifts, or giving students money to buy plane tickets to attend his “teachings”.

This is just one of many psychological tricks he plays on students; if they had a normal livelihood and were sensible about how much material offerings to give, none of them would require PY’s gestures of financial support. Instead, students are tricked into perceiving that these gestures as proof that PY is a living Buddha, and feel indebted to him. To “repay the guru’s kindness”, the students offer more and more of their time, effort and resources to PY.

In essence, PY has created an illusory debt bondage, a vicious cycle where PY exploits students’ genuine feelings of gratitude to become richer and more powerful, while students become poorer, more dependent on him, and feel endlessly indebted.

This kind of psychological manipulation is why PY vehemently distances his students from modern psychology, because it will expose his psychopathologies. I heard how one young student became highly distressed because she was specifically “advised” by PY not to choose psychology for her university studies, and she, under the influenced of her brainwashed mother, complied.

4. PY targets the financially wealthy, and they get preferential treatment

PY preaches a lot about the Buddhist notion of equanimity, but with distance and time to reflect on his behaviours over the years, I conclude without a shadow of a doubt that there is nothing equal about the way he interacts with students.

Once, on short notice, he flew halfway across the world to “help” a student’s daughter over a weekend. I was puzzled and surprised by this gesture. This student in question was also shocked but due to the feeling of indebtedness as described above, offered an envelope with money that more than covered PY’s air fare. This student has since left Pathgate because he saw through its financial irregularities, but only after tens of thousands of dollars in donations.

Looking back, it is clear to us that PY only did what he did because he knew this student was financially wealthy. This single trip was no more than an investment that will pay off infinitely bigger in future. PY wouldn’t never have done it if it was another student of lesser financial capacity. Circumstantial evidence tells me this was not the first time PY did this either.

Over the years, I have witnessed PY’s pattern of “lovebombing” towards the financially wealthy, and their relatives. I've seen him flatter and try to impress them over initial interactions. I remembered feeling puzzled about why PY was extra nice to them. I have personally been the receiving end of one of his tantrums, when he was late for an appointment with a rich foreign student wannabe. I have heard from others how he would rage at students when he failed to impress his potential cash cows, and blamed his students for interfering with his plans.

Once hooked onto PY’s spell, these financially well-off students would be told, “the wealth you have in this life is due to the merit generated in past lives, so make use of it now,” going on to imply that they should devote their resources to him and his projects instead. In general, he implicitly discourages his lay students from finding work, because “mundane work creates negative karma," unless of course, the work serves PY's personal agenda

Personally, I remembered picking up PY’s subtle but unmistakable excitement in his voice when I revealed to him I had passive income. PY had even openly said to me once, “If you do not know what to do with your money, give them to me!”

PY characterised students and potential students in terms of “investability”. That’s what I believe he ultimately sees his students as: investment property, not human beings. My observations leads me to conclude that he only keeps the “good investments” around him. When an “investment” goes bad, he discards them ruthlessly, and then proceeds to utterly destroy them in the eyes of the “good investments”, who in turn feel superior as “practitioners who had not lost their way”, and remain loyal, but actually in an unconscious state of fearful submission.


In sum, PY has been exceptionally manipulative and had distorted Buddhism to financially exploit his students. By shedding light on this, one would realise that this pattern of exploitation is prevalent among cults / high-demand groups — further evidence that Pathgate is no more than a cult of personality around PY.

I hope that this lengthy post helps elucidate the sinister paradigm past and present students have been subjected to. I pray that current students will one day, in their financial doldrums and emotional misery, snap out of the brainwashing and see the truth about their situation. But I pray even more that most don't need to reach that sorry state.

Blog Post: []

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2019 09:09PM by karmicwind.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Date: September 01, 2019 03:43AM

Hello Beth, and others

I must say, I recognise.
The story about him hitting on a girl in 2005 in a retreat time being close to Penor Rinpoche's?

It all makes sense. More and more sense.
I can tell you Beth, that He is an astral travellor and/or projector, and does TRICKS to cause people to behave TOTALLY different than normal for them.

So rigidly strict in his teaching, but he himself, CONDEMS the teaching of the Buddha, truely. From his own inner violence, he causes families to play TOTAL DIFFERENT roles as normal, and even other than he TEACHES. And he BECOMES very violent when one doesnt follow his instruction.

We should all study this, to see how wrong this "Teacher" DOndrup DOrje is.
here in a text of an interview of Holiness Dalai LAma, i think made about 2 decades ago but im not sure of the date.

Get familiar with it and you'll know how cunning this deceiving man is.

He has undermined me for three years, sexual abuse through astral abuse practices, which is the same practice he did to many other people, in other ways. I remember him interfering with me and my family in ways, to cause guilt and suffering in me, as part of his tactic of mind-control mindfuck, undermining the safety and confidence of other people.

This happens to EVERY one, i have seen more and more, and more and more, visions and flashback of his spiritual and emotional abuse.

Fear is the way, that is which makes the other person weak.
And i shoujld be actually proud, to tell you, that i have caused fear in THEM panic rabbits. Very straight up karma.

Thats why they have done EXTREME, rigurous and continuous activity every day over the last 3 years, to undermine me destroy me. Trying to make me isolate myself from other people, because i feel ashame.

ASHAME because they "tantricly" SEXUAL ABUSING me, -yes i admit i was sexually active- he accused me of "addiction", but it make SO MUCH SENSE now, hearing this story about him hitting on someone. He have SCANDALISED me, and been all the time on my back.

I remember him speaking about "Sexual misconduct", and "Sentient beings" that want to experience that, sexual energy and whatever to call it. This was a HINT, about HIMSELF, and KUNZANG as well, because THEY are sexually frustrated people. I was just actually, very confident. ANd just wanted to go ahead with the ladies (hehe). I agree it is not monk(ey) conduct, but i have never been a monk. I had ASPIRED to. But decided, lay practitioner was (and is) enough for me.

Right now, i have been constantly blackmailed, sabotaged and undermined. Abusing my guilt-feeling about my conduct towards them in 2016, which they actually DESERVED GREATLY, i even regret i didnt kick their ass, as i have been thinking of in there. I just didnt want to do it, enough.

But you can thrust me, i will destroy this cult completely.
Because they have been SO disrespectful with me, doing extremely crazy mean things. To make me fear and depressed (Even more), etc.

I think i should save you the details. Im sure there are people that KNOW about certain skill he has, to do with the base chakra (attacking the fluid through angry thought-projection to cause fear - that you really feel your "pee"moving)

So he has some skills indeed. But is a man of secrets lies and deceit.
I have sensed, him being very angry with me, about what happened, and also sensed HIS fear, and projections on me. Besides the mirroring of my own garbage which i have build from being in contact with them.

However, teaching is true, that other people affect you, and you need good companions. But this guy does DAMAGE if he feels not respected.
- thats why, read this link and become VERY VERY clear!

For me it is AGAIN a proof, how much i am truely standing in the right spot, and while i have been astrally MOLESTED, i know now i should BE MORE in standing my ground(!).

I have allowed them (Eventually), to penetrate so deeply in my being, abusing me very harsly, to try to FORM me into something that is SUITABLE to them, and NOT a threat! Because i am definetely, a threat to them.

They know who i am, when it comes to taking action. But i have had many long term obstacles and sabotage from them. Even in night time, attacking me hard.
With group.

They FOLLOW his instructions! Thats why they should also read this link i gave you. And get CLEAR about this fraud. I know, his world will be shattered soon. Will completely fall apart. And I do NO LONGER need to feel guilty about it!
He DESERVES it because he does not even do ATTEMPT to acknowledge his own mistakes, and demonised me as being evil.

He had sent me away because he knew he would get f*d up, actually..
So this way, he continued to excercise "power" over me..
But i was the stupid one to GIVE it to him (by being strongly annoyed and responding etC), because they know i was angry with them and wanted to KEEP it that way.

They try to manipulate me by making me feel dirty. Maybe i better save you the details of the kind of punishment they have tortured me with. its dirty.

I know why they attacked me before. So called helping me.
Because they KNEW, i was starting to get to know more, i was starting to see things... understand things..

Is hard to explain, but with all the experiences i have come to realise their fakery.

"There are many negative experiences but the worst was when I told PY that I was leaving and would not be coming back. He was furious and lost his temper, he then went on to tell me that my husband was not right for me and would make me have an unhappy life. He then said that my children were in danger and would suffer as a consequence of leaving. As you can imagine I was distraught."

--> This is exactly what i mean. He gets AGGRESSIVE! (What lama becomes aggressive? You want to leave? - Ok, can go.) He would have, done the same astral tricks as i'm talking about. I just tell you.

Even people who said small things like commenting on him that others were serving him like as if he was "god", and eating from golden plates etc, which he found silly. (However this kind of things do happen in Tibetan Buddhism so its not that strange) - He attacked the boy with similar kind of things. Because he felt disrespected. A LAMA that becomes so violent from such small things... ????

I mean this trick: To push up your body fluids (pee).
FOr this reason, sometimes i smell pee in my body. As a BUNCH of these crapheads do this practice to strongly disturb and annoy me.
Trying to get me in, and keep me in anger. And shame ofcourse.

Today, kids were laughing because i walked through, and they smelling some kind of shit-smell. This is MORE manipulation-intimidation, to belittle my confidence andsoforth. They want me to THINK they completely control me, own me.

They may have destroyed my bladder yes, and more organs, and maybe even, EATING my WHOLE body away ( which i pretty much think is close to reality, as this would be a good reason why they dont DARE to leave! - i have sensed their fear)

They're afraid they get SLAYED guess..
AS they KNOW, they took it (way) too far....

The way i am right now, is SO BAD, that stinky Rinpoche has spiked himself SO DEEP from through my subconscious into my conscious mind? There is where the fluids pushed up, and flow out through body as overly sweating. Which i smell a bit pee-like there...

Do not feel afraid about it.. But if it happens, join me..
He deserves his ass kicked. Lets not fear this cockroach.
Sorry to speak negative, but what more can i give now?
AFter all this. All the time i have done my best to be reasonable, allways.
Not forgetting his good qualities, and naming them. But every day same thing.
Again attack.

I drop them out of my subconscious? (happend few times), BOOM! they WANT me to think about them allways. they want me to DIE this way!...

Doing all they can, to keep me in ego and pain-body..
its crazy really.

im tired of it.
But he keep challenging me?
Very dub decision.

No matter how much he weakened me.
HE better stop today.

Excuse me the taint of the content.
But how can i feel positive about them still?

I want to be left alone. Thats all. If they done that 3 years back, i would have be perfectly fine in about 2 weeks after leaving that place.....

Good luck to all, strength..


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Unrealistic Fantasy Toxic Bubble
Posted by: karmicwind ()
Date: September 10, 2019 12:07PM

Unrealistic Fantasy Toxic Bubble

The following is a testimony extracted from an email exchange with a former student "Kate" during the 2010s, reproduced with permission. It has been slightly edited for grammar and clarity. Victims’ names have been changed, details and dates have been redacted to protect their identities.

Hi “Christine”,

Ah, good that you have seen the [Cult Education Institute] forum, so many comments there resonate with what me and “Rachel” experienced.

In early 201? [date redacted] I made the mistake to place my trust in Loday (Marcus) and PY and believe that place was a safe environment to send Rachel for a short length of time for some respite. Instead of respite she was slowly indoctrinated and abused over a ten-month period, right up until our escape on [date redacted].

I best not go into too much detail into what she endured without her permission, but she might be able to tell you herself in time, she is still somewhat fragile from the ordeal, but she has made a remarkable recovery over the last two years.

Personally, I can tell you I visited Rachel in February, just for a few days. The next time I saw her was in July at the start of the Summer "retreat" — and I noticed there was a huge change in her, that I couldn't quite put my finger on; she didn't look well, but you, Christine made her smile and her mood lifted in your presence.

I had planned to stay for one week, however, Loday insisted I stay longer and emotionally blackmailed me with the threat of demons if I left. I wanted to leave but I wanted Rachel to come with me.

As I attended the "teachings" It slowly dawned on me that most of what was being said was disturbing. I also slowly figured out I was being lied to, spied on, under some sort of surveillance, blackmailed, expected to obey instructions/orders against my will, and so on.

One lunchtime in August/Sept I went to the library (in secret — remember library and books/reading were banned!) and I happened to bump into the recently "disrobed ani" who PY had thrown out. It was so very sad, she looked so different dressed in plain clothes with her hair grown out, her eyes were red raw and swollen — through crying. She was in a state, but did not disclose any info or confide in me. I did not let on I had seen and spoken to her — I only told Rachel. But I was thinking What The Blazes is going on here?!

To cut another long story short, just before that Summer "retreat" I had managed to secure a new rented home [details redacted] in [location redacted]. [Something serious occurred and] I was instructed not to return to my home to sort things out. So inevitably I was promptly served eviction notice from my landlord [details redacted]. Eventually, end of Sept, and without PY or Loday's permission, I left Newcastle to go home only to find I was indeed homeless and everything was a mess.

Back home, I packed the boxes up and sorted out what needed to be done. I then returned to Newcastle to get Rachel out. Upon my return Loday was off hand with me, and I think he was told not to speak to me. The fact Loday had interfered in my life to such a degree to contributing making me homeless jolted Rachel into the stark reality of how dangerous, abusive and controlling these people were. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. Loday told Rachel that me being made homeless was not a problem — it was karma, nothing to worry about! Loday continued to lie, break promises, snitch/report back to PY all information he could gather etc. As I've said before, I realise Loday is a victim and he was obeying PY's orders with all he was saying and doing. Personally, I didn't witness any actions of a real Buddhist. Loday was living in an unrealistic fantasy toxic bubble! But like everyone there, he was brainwashed.

Shortly after this, in October a weekend teaching took place and PY called me names (i.e. garbage) verbally abused me, humiliated me and berated me the whole day in front of everyone [details redacted] and threw a heavy stick at my head that slammed against the wall behind me. [Details redacted]

I phoned a friend of mine in [location redacted] to ask for a £25 loan for diesel for my car so that we could secretly pack my car up and quietly escape. I needed the loan for diesel to drive us to [location redacted], because ALL our money had been taken by them — their financial abuse. We had almost completed the task of packing my car up, and one of the Ani's smelled a rat, and discovered we were preparing to leave. She tried to coerce Rachel to stay, telling her to sit down and wait for PY to return from his trip abroad, she said it was "important to at least listen to PY or ask permission to leave with his blessing". Yeah, can you believe that! Anyhow, I was in a rush to go, so I bundled the last things in the car and then I ushered Rachel into my car and off we went.

When we reached [location redacted], Rachel found a safe place with the help of an ex-student, and I had to live in the back of my car for seven months over the freezing cold winter, (due to their financial abuse we were so broke it took a while to get on my feet) BUT freezing and starving to death in my car was better than being with that bunch of perpetrators. Eventually, after 7 months of my car, I secured new housing.

Soon after moving to [location redacted], an ex-student told us of their dreadful experiences with PY. We also got in touch with INFORM who were helpful, they were familiar with PY and others had given statements to them about what they had endured.

It was a series of events to realise this was a sham, and that criminal offences were taking place, and that we were victims of PY and his brainwashed followers.

[Details redacted]

As I have said, what I have written here is the tip of the iceberg, there is SO MUCH more, it is the simple short version, and I have mentioned the episodes that triggered my survival instincts that we had to get safe, we were being brainwashed, manipulated, and relentlessly abused etc.

I hope this has helped you grasp some understanding of why we escaped.


If you require information and/or support with regards to recovery from cults, here are several organisations you can contact.


DialogCentre UK

Cult Information Centre

Cult Consulting Australia

Blog Post: []

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2019 12:15PM by karmicwind.

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Re: Unrealistic Fantasy Toxic Bubble
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: September 11, 2019 01:02AM

Wonderful to hear about Kate and Rachel's escape.

Karmicwind has very correctly identified common methods of abuse at Pathgate in bold.

An interesting theme that comes across is that PY's victims are brainwashed into believing that when bad things happen in life, they are not to be addressed or thought about in any grown-up, intelligent or realistic way.

This is part of PY's very clever trap:
PY's victim-students begin to live unhappy lives because they are following PY's corrupt teachings.
When they notice their lives are getting worse, they get told not to worry, it's actually good because this is "bad karma" coming out.
They get told their lives are getting worse because PY is helping them release bad karma from their "mindstreams", gathered from "many lifetimes".

The lie here is particularly extraordinary, a hallmark of PY's capacity for abuse:
The reality is their lives are getting worse because of PY ... not because he is "healing them from past karma" somehow, but because he is actually, simply, making their lives worse!
PY abuses them into living in a degrading and degraded manner, and tells them it's good for them.

This is why his long-term victim-students are so dangerous to others.
They have fully bought into the idea that being unhappy and having a crap life is a sign of progress.
As per Kate's testimony, they do their utmost to convince others of this lie, and the main reason is so they don't have to face the reality of the toxic fantasy bubble they live in.

All of them, PY and his victims, are in fact highly motivated to draw others into their unrealistic fantasy toxic bubble.

When their lives are getting really bad, and their friends and family are starting to really notice, PY's student-victims are told that this is the moment to double-down, pay more money, and engage in more "magical" actions (which boils down to worshipping PY).
If they don't do (and pay for) "more magic", exactly as per Kate's testimony, they are told things will get even worse for them: demons will get them!

PY and his victims always revert to "magic" (karma, demons etc.) to explain normal life events, and preach magic solutions to all of life's challenges.
This is plain stupidity, and needless to say, not Buddhist.

Looking objectively at PY's life, and those of his victim-students, we clearly see the effects of their magical thinking.
It's super sad for all of us who had people we counted as friends there.

Moving beyond magical thinking is a big deprogramming challenge to escapees from this particular cult, as is evidenced by several testimonies on this thread, in different ways.

Science, Buddhism, every major religion, wisdom school, psychological school, and every person with a bit of intelligence and knowledge of the world also happens to agree that magical thinking is, to sum it up, total bullshit.

Magical thinking is psychologically infantile, which also perfectly fits with PY's abuse of his victim-students into childish dependency, and PY's own arrested development.

The old stories speak many times of authentic Buddhists having to win battles against "users of magic".
Symbolically what they are talking about is that Buddhism represents the evolution of "being human" through the application of educated, thoughtful, caring, morally boundaried, discriminating intelligence.

Buddhism needs to evolve, and doesn't have all the answers, but it has always been very clearly against magical thinking.
This is one of the reasons many scientists find Buddhism to be a credible system of thought. They may not agree with it, but they recognise the drive towards being realistic (working from the data) at the heart of Buddhism.

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