Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
SeekingTruth
()
Date: March 22, 2011 03:40PM
Researchers Unravel Horrors in China
Five years on, efforts to tell world about forced organ harvesting continue
By Joshua Philipp
Epoch Times Staff
[www.theepochtimes.com]
The story was hard to stomach—gruesome, at the very least. What started as a rumor, however, would later unfold into a campaign of brutality and horror perpetrated by the Chinese regime.
International human rights lawyer David Matas was in his office when the story broke in March 2006. It flowed into his e-mail box along with the flood of human rights updates he reads daily.
It told the story of a woman under the pseudonym “Annie,” whose husband suffered nightmares, as he suffered for the terror he had inflicted on more than 2,000 people.
Annie said her husband, a surgeon, was employed by the Chinese regime to remove the corneas from living Falun Gong practitioners, slicing their eyes open with his scalpel while they were still alive. The rest of their organs were also stripped from their bodies, all to feed a market of illicit organ trade.
When he told his wife, Annie, what he was doing, she left him and escaped to the United States to reveal the ongoing crime.
Matas had reservations with regard to the news, although he said “I knew enough about the Falun Gong to know they are being persecuted, so it occurred to me that it might be true,” in a phone interview from a Geneva hotel.
The story faded into the back of his mind until two months later. Matas and was asked to investigate the allegations alongside former Canadian Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific) David Kilgour.
“I knew this was a difficult issue to assess,” Matas said. “When I began I had no idea whether the allegation was true or false, but I knew from my experience in the human rights world that it would be difficult to find somebody else to look at it.”
Investigating claims that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is systematically harvesting organs from living Falun Gong practitioners would be difficult. They could not interview victims since they were all killed, there were no bodies because they are cremated, and the Chinese regime does not allow human rights defenders to operate within its borders.
Matas described it as “an evidentiary conundrum,” yet his daily work of trying to prove or disprove claims by refugees gave him a place to start. “I deal with people who come with the clothes on their back and a story,” he said.
Kilgour and Matas, though, got to work and were able to find 51 evidentiary trails that led them to conclude the allegations were true. “Seeing that this is happening to a large number of innocent citizens in China in the twenty-first century, that just horrified me,” said Kilgour, in a phone interview from Canada.
Their evidence included phone calls to hospitals where individuals posed as Americans interested in buying organs from Falun Gong practitioners, and hospital staff consequently volunteered having organs available from practitioners.
China claims it gets its organs from executed prisoners, but Kilgour and Matas found discrepancies between the number of reported executions and the number of transplants. They concluded that Falun Gong practitioners were the most likely source for 41,500 transplant operations conducted between 2000 and 2005.
They published their first report [www.theepochtimes.com] in July 2006, which they would follow with an expanded report and then their book, Bloody Harvest: The killing of Falun Gong for their organs , [www.theepochtimes.com] published in October 2009.
A Widespread Practice
When the research of Kilgour and Matas was released, independent writer and researcher Ethan Gutmann was heading into Bangkok to interview [www.weeklystandard.com] Falun Gong practitioners who had recently escaped from China. Although he had doubts at first, through his own research he came to the same conclusion they had.
ETHAN GUTMANN, writer and investigative reporter, is an authority on Chinese regime censorship, the U.S. business scene in China, and China's surveillance of political dissidents. He spoke at the Capitol Building, April 26. (Gary Feuerberg/The Epoch Times)
Gutmann would interview more than 100 Falun Gong practitioners, including 50 refugees from the CCP’s prisons and labor camps, while researching the regime’s persecution against the peaceful meditation group.
During a phone interview from the United Kingdom, Gutmann said, “there was a distinct moment,” when he realized the claims were true. He was interviewing an older woman who described tests done on Falun Gong practitioners in prisons and labor camps that included expensive blood tests and examinations for organ health.
“They were given this exam and there was clearly no justification for the exam. It wasn’t a real medical exam, it was only examining organs,” Gutmann said.
He would hear the same tests described again and again. To make sure they weren’t just telling him what he wanted to hear, he only casually inquired about the tests. “It was clear they weren’t briefing each other and it was clear they didn’t realize the significance,” he said.
In order to cover the costs of the examinations, Gutmann estimated the CCP would need to take the organs of one in every 40 people they examined just to break even. If they wanted profit, they would need to kill one in every 5 or 10.
Based on his findings, he believes the CCP may have killed 65,000 Falun Gong practitioners for their organs. He said the estimation comes close to that found by Matas and Kilgour. “It’s surprising because we’re working with completely different methods. I’m not using Chinese government numbers,” Gutmann said.
He outlined his findings in a November 2008 article, “China’s Gruesome Organ Harvest,” published in the Weekly Standard magazine, as well as in an article published on his East of Ethan blog, “How many harvested?”
Through further research, however, he uncovered the CCP’s practice of killing religious believers for their organs was more widespread than had previously been believed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2011 03:47PM by SeekingTruth.
Five years on, efforts to tell world about forced organ harvesting continue
By Joshua Philipp
Epoch Times Staff
[www.theepochtimes.com]
The story was hard to stomach—gruesome, at the very least. What started as a rumor, however, would later unfold into a campaign of brutality and horror perpetrated by the Chinese regime.
International human rights lawyer David Matas was in his office when the story broke in March 2006. It flowed into his e-mail box along with the flood of human rights updates he reads daily.
It told the story of a woman under the pseudonym “Annie,” whose husband suffered nightmares, as he suffered for the terror he had inflicted on more than 2,000 people.
Annie said her husband, a surgeon, was employed by the Chinese regime to remove the corneas from living Falun Gong practitioners, slicing their eyes open with his scalpel while they were still alive. The rest of their organs were also stripped from their bodies, all to feed a market of illicit organ trade.
When he told his wife, Annie, what he was doing, she left him and escaped to the United States to reveal the ongoing crime.
Matas had reservations with regard to the news, although he said “I knew enough about the Falun Gong to know they are being persecuted, so it occurred to me that it might be true,” in a phone interview from a Geneva hotel.
The story faded into the back of his mind until two months later. Matas and was asked to investigate the allegations alongside former Canadian Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific) David Kilgour.
“I knew this was a difficult issue to assess,” Matas said. “When I began I had no idea whether the allegation was true or false, but I knew from my experience in the human rights world that it would be difficult to find somebody else to look at it.”
Investigating claims that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is systematically harvesting organs from living Falun Gong practitioners would be difficult. They could not interview victims since they were all killed, there were no bodies because they are cremated, and the Chinese regime does not allow human rights defenders to operate within its borders.
Matas described it as “an evidentiary conundrum,” yet his daily work of trying to prove or disprove claims by refugees gave him a place to start. “I deal with people who come with the clothes on their back and a story,” he said.
Kilgour and Matas, though, got to work and were able to find 51 evidentiary trails that led them to conclude the allegations were true. “Seeing that this is happening to a large number of innocent citizens in China in the twenty-first century, that just horrified me,” said Kilgour, in a phone interview from Canada.
Their evidence included phone calls to hospitals where individuals posed as Americans interested in buying organs from Falun Gong practitioners, and hospital staff consequently volunteered having organs available from practitioners.
China claims it gets its organs from executed prisoners, but Kilgour and Matas found discrepancies between the number of reported executions and the number of transplants. They concluded that Falun Gong practitioners were the most likely source for 41,500 transplant operations conducted between 2000 and 2005.
They published their first report [www.theepochtimes.com] in July 2006, which they would follow with an expanded report and then their book, Bloody Harvest: The killing of Falun Gong for their organs , [www.theepochtimes.com] published in October 2009.
A Widespread Practice
When the research of Kilgour and Matas was released, independent writer and researcher Ethan Gutmann was heading into Bangkok to interview [www.weeklystandard.com] Falun Gong practitioners who had recently escaped from China. Although he had doubts at first, through his own research he came to the same conclusion they had.
ETHAN GUTMANN, writer and investigative reporter, is an authority on Chinese regime censorship, the U.S. business scene in China, and China's surveillance of political dissidents. He spoke at the Capitol Building, April 26. (Gary Feuerberg/The Epoch Times)
Gutmann would interview more than 100 Falun Gong practitioners, including 50 refugees from the CCP’s prisons and labor camps, while researching the regime’s persecution against the peaceful meditation group.
During a phone interview from the United Kingdom, Gutmann said, “there was a distinct moment,” when he realized the claims were true. He was interviewing an older woman who described tests done on Falun Gong practitioners in prisons and labor camps that included expensive blood tests and examinations for organ health.
“They were given this exam and there was clearly no justification for the exam. It wasn’t a real medical exam, it was only examining organs,” Gutmann said.
He would hear the same tests described again and again. To make sure they weren’t just telling him what he wanted to hear, he only casually inquired about the tests. “It was clear they weren’t briefing each other and it was clear they didn’t realize the significance,” he said.
In order to cover the costs of the examinations, Gutmann estimated the CCP would need to take the organs of one in every 40 people they examined just to break even. If they wanted profit, they would need to kill one in every 5 or 10.
Based on his findings, he believes the CCP may have killed 65,000 Falun Gong practitioners for their organs. He said the estimation comes close to that found by Matas and Kilgour. “It’s surprising because we’re working with completely different methods. I’m not using Chinese government numbers,” Gutmann said.
He outlined his findings in a November 2008 article, “China’s Gruesome Organ Harvest,” published in the Weekly Standard magazine, as well as in an article published on his East of Ethan blog, “How many harvested?”
Through further research, however, he uncovered the CCP’s practice of killing religious believers for their organs was more widespread than had previously been believed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2011 03:47PM by SeekingTruth.
Re: Falung Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
SeekingTruth
()
Date: March 22, 2011 03:46PM
Christians, Tibetans, and Uyghurs are also victims
He found that House Christians, Tibetans, and Uyghurs were also victims.
He was also able to prove the origin of the regime’s practice, which he will describe in an upcoming article in the Weekly Standard. “It proves that the Uyghurs were the first political prisoners to be harvested in China, in 1997 following the Gulja incident. The scale was probably fairly small, but we don’t know. What we do know is that it definitely happened,” Gutmann said.
Still, he notes that the scale of the crime appears to be highest among Falun Gong practitioners. While one piece of evidence pointed to an incident where a busload of Tibetans were subject to organ examinations, Falun Gong practitioners were often examined by the hundreds.
Uncovering a Crime
The work of Matas and Kilgour won them a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize, and they continue to tour the world to reveal their findings to governments and at conferences.
The Chinese regime has since stopped openly selling organs to foreigners, yet the practice is still allowed among local Chinese. Only registered hospitals are now allowed to conduct the transplants, but Matas notes, “it only works for the civilian system, not the military, and the military are the main culprits for killing Falun Gong for their organs, so it’s not really a solution.”
Overall, the CCP’s response to the findings were “nonsensical,” as Matas describes them. “If we were wrong, the government could have very easily contradicted them. What we get is just silliness,” he said.
Included among the regime’s attempts to refute the findings were a documentary by Hong Kong’s Phoenix TV, where a doctor is interviewed who had admitted to selling organs from Falun Gong practitioners in a phone call referenced in Kilgour and Matas’s research.
In the documentary, the interviewer hands him a transcript of the interview and he denies saying the parts about selling organs from Falun Gong practitioners. Matas notes that the documentary did not mention the recording of the phone call in which the doctor made his admittance—a recording that has been preserved as evidence.
Things only became more ludicrous. During a debate between Matas and a Chinese political consul at the Chinese Embassy in Israel, the Chinese official said the report was based on rumors. He tried to prove this by fabricating evidence and then refuting the evidence he created.
Matas notes that among governments and larger organizations, their findings have gotten “more acceptance as we pursue this,” adding that he and Kilgour still “haven’t seen a sustained approach in dealing with this that I would like to see.”
He believes this is partly due to the nature of the case. “You can criticize China in some ways and they’ll say ‘yes, you’re right, give us some time,’ but if you criticize them about the persecution against Falun Gong they go ballistic—they’ll walk out of the room and won’t have anything to do with you.”
According to Gutmann, “Eventually there will be either a massive reform in China or a collapse of the CCP, and very likely there will be some records still around that somebody will preserve ... and people will come back and say ‘why didn’t we do anything?’ and there won’t be a good answer for that.”
===
Related Articles
Source of Organs for Transplants a Mystery in China
[www.theepochtimes.com]
'Beyond the Red Wall: The Persecution of Falun Gong'
[www.theepochtimes.com]
===
He found that House Christians, Tibetans, and Uyghurs were also victims.
He was also able to prove the origin of the regime’s practice, which he will describe in an upcoming article in the Weekly Standard. “It proves that the Uyghurs were the first political prisoners to be harvested in China, in 1997 following the Gulja incident. The scale was probably fairly small, but we don’t know. What we do know is that it definitely happened,” Gutmann said.
Still, he notes that the scale of the crime appears to be highest among Falun Gong practitioners. While one piece of evidence pointed to an incident where a busload of Tibetans were subject to organ examinations, Falun Gong practitioners were often examined by the hundreds.
Uncovering a Crime
The work of Matas and Kilgour won them a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize, and they continue to tour the world to reveal their findings to governments and at conferences.
The Chinese regime has since stopped openly selling organs to foreigners, yet the practice is still allowed among local Chinese. Only registered hospitals are now allowed to conduct the transplants, but Matas notes, “it only works for the civilian system, not the military, and the military are the main culprits for killing Falun Gong for their organs, so it’s not really a solution.”
Overall, the CCP’s response to the findings were “nonsensical,” as Matas describes them. “If we were wrong, the government could have very easily contradicted them. What we get is just silliness,” he said.
Included among the regime’s attempts to refute the findings were a documentary by Hong Kong’s Phoenix TV, where a doctor is interviewed who had admitted to selling organs from Falun Gong practitioners in a phone call referenced in Kilgour and Matas’s research.
In the documentary, the interviewer hands him a transcript of the interview and he denies saying the parts about selling organs from Falun Gong practitioners. Matas notes that the documentary did not mention the recording of the phone call in which the doctor made his admittance—a recording that has been preserved as evidence.
Things only became more ludicrous. During a debate between Matas and a Chinese political consul at the Chinese Embassy in Israel, the Chinese official said the report was based on rumors. He tried to prove this by fabricating evidence and then refuting the evidence he created.
Matas notes that among governments and larger organizations, their findings have gotten “more acceptance as we pursue this,” adding that he and Kilgour still “haven’t seen a sustained approach in dealing with this that I would like to see.”
He believes this is partly due to the nature of the case. “You can criticize China in some ways and they’ll say ‘yes, you’re right, give us some time,’ but if you criticize them about the persecution against Falun Gong they go ballistic—they’ll walk out of the room and won’t have anything to do with you.”
According to Gutmann, “Eventually there will be either a massive reform in China or a collapse of the CCP, and very likely there will be some records still around that somebody will preserve ... and people will come back and say ‘why didn’t we do anything?’ and there won’t be a good answer for that.”
===
Related Articles
Source of Organs for Transplants a Mystery in China
[www.theepochtimes.com]
'Beyond the Red Wall: The Persecution of Falun Gong'
[www.theepochtimes.com]
===
Re: Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: March 22, 2011 11:09PM
I'm confused, Seeking Truth, as to why you posted this here? It is always interesting to read propaganda from the racist, homophobic UFO cult Falun Gong, but you simply posted it without any commentary or analysis of this mix of disinformation and lies? Perhaps you had a hard time posting in your own commentary?
Either way, thanks for posting it, is always interesting to see what the FG is lying about this week!
Either way, thanks for posting it, is always interesting to see what the FG is lying about this week!
Re: Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: March 23, 2011 07:20PM
While the above articles may indeed be slanted as propaganda for Falun Gong, there is little doubt that China has conducted a roaring trade in 'transplant tourism' with the majority of harvested organs coming from executed prisoners.
China admits to as much:
[news.bbc.co.uk]
China now claims, after pressure from the WHO and others, that it requires the freely given consent of the prisoner before removing the organs. One has to question how valid is a 'freely given' consent from a prisoner awaiting imminent death in a totalitarian state. They are hardly in a position to complain later if organs are taken without consent.
[www.dafoh.org]
Most modern transplant techniques require that the donor be kept in a 'live' state until the procedure is accomplished, so the traditional execution method used by China no longer produces many viable organs other than corneas and kidneys (China used to shoot its prisoners in order to preserve corneas and kidneys for transplant) as Dr Tom Treasure, a western transplant surgeon, explains in the RSM Journal:
[www.dafoh.org]
[www.ctsnet.org]
The reality of live donor harvesting in China is factual, not disinformation and lies. It is also true that even minor transgressions against the dictates of a totalitarian state can carry a death penalty.
The extent to which imprisoned Falun Gong practitioners have been targeted as live donors as opposed to the targeting of many other imprisoned dissidents has yet to be established.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2011 07:21PM by Stoic.
China admits to as much:
[news.bbc.co.uk]
China now claims, after pressure from the WHO and others, that it requires the freely given consent of the prisoner before removing the organs. One has to question how valid is a 'freely given' consent from a prisoner awaiting imminent death in a totalitarian state. They are hardly in a position to complain later if organs are taken without consent.
[www.dafoh.org]
Most modern transplant techniques require that the donor be kept in a 'live' state until the procedure is accomplished, so the traditional execution method used by China no longer produces many viable organs other than corneas and kidneys (China used to shoot its prisoners in order to preserve corneas and kidneys for transplant) as Dr Tom Treasure, a western transplant surgeon, explains in the RSM Journal:
[www.dafoh.org]
[www.ctsnet.org]
The reality of live donor harvesting in China is factual, not disinformation and lies. It is also true that even minor transgressions against the dictates of a totalitarian state can carry a death penalty.
The extent to which imprisoned Falun Gong practitioners have been targeted as live donors as opposed to the targeting of many other imprisoned dissidents has yet to be established.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2011 07:21PM by Stoic.
Re: Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: March 24, 2011 12:14AM
Not defending the Chinese government as a whole. However, even if what they say is true, none of this is relevant to a discussion on cults other than for analysis of propaganda techniques (and Epoch Times is the propaganda outlet for Falun Gong). What is relevant to a discussion on cults is the even MORE totalitarian worldview of Falun Gong, which is largely obscured in the American press.
LI HONGZHI ON THE GAYS
Question: Why is homosexuality considered immoral?
Teacher: Think about it, everyone: Is homosexuality human behavior? Heaven created man and woman. What was the purpose? To procreate future generations. A man being with a man, or a woman with a woman – it doesn’t take much thought to know whether that’s right or wrong. When minor things are done incorrectly, a person is said to be wrong. When major things are done incorrectly, it’s a case of people no longer having the moral code of human beings, and then they are unworthy of being human.
…Some people who have sinned can have their karma eliminated through the death of the physical body and suffering, and then they’ll be free of that karma when they reincarnate. Their livesdon’t really die and they reincarnate again. But the karma that some people have accrued is too much, in which case the fundamental elements of their existence will be implicated and destroyed. Homosexuals not only violate the standards that gods set for mankind, but also damage human society’s moral code.
Li on Interracial Marriage
…Li Hongzhi, the founder of Falun Gong holds that the offspring of cross-race marriage or the “hybrid” is a rootless and aberrant race which marks the extreme morality corruption of human beings in the world today. He says the half-breed – “mongrel” is a plot of aliens. He further explains that the half-breed is a plot of aliens aiming at sabotaging the link between human being and paradise. “The aliens mix up different human races and keep them away from gods,” Li said in Switzerland. He also enumerated 10 kinds of “evils”: the half-breed, gays and lesbians, computer users, tradition disrupters, democracy adherents as well as “science worshipers,” etc.
“In the reincarnation process it is the main soul that reincarnates, whereas what has mixed blood is the flesh body. Different gods created their own different peoples, and in history those gods have all along been taking care of the people they themselves created. White people are white people, black people are black people, and people of the yellow race are people of the yellow race. Any ethnicity in the world is a race that corresponds with the heavens. After mixing blood people no longer have their correspondence to the gods in the heavens.
LI ON THE ALIEN CONSPIRACY
“(Alien beings) want to steal it. They saturate all domains of humankind with science to make human beings firmly believe in science and rely on it. When human beings’ thoughts and way of existence are completely assimilated to theirs, they just have to replace people’s souls and humans will become them, and they will eventually replace the human race…this science was set up by aliens. Their purpose was to unify human beings and simplify their thoughts to the point of being as uniform asmachines. And they unified knowledge to make it easy for them to later on control and replace human beings. Furthermore, they’ve chosen a few nationalities as the vanguards of their future, total control ofhumankind. Japan is the vanguard that drives technology. The United States is the vanguard in breaking away from all ancient cultures on earth. The cultures of even the most ancient and closed-off nations haven’t been able to escape. The whole world is being impacted by America’s modern culture. England was the vanguard in the manufacture of machinery during the early stages, and Spain was the vanguard for mixing the human races. The way alien beings get human beings to shake free ofthe gods is to mix the races, causing human beings to become rootless people, just like the plant hybrids people make nowadays. South Americans, Central Americans, Mexicans and some people in South East Asia – all of these races have been mixed. None of this can evade the gods’ eyes. Alien beings have made rather extensive preparations for overtaking human beings.”[13]
LI HONGZHI ON THE GAYS
Question: Why is homosexuality considered immoral?
Teacher: Think about it, everyone: Is homosexuality human behavior? Heaven created man and woman. What was the purpose? To procreate future generations. A man being with a man, or a woman with a woman – it doesn’t take much thought to know whether that’s right or wrong. When minor things are done incorrectly, a person is said to be wrong. When major things are done incorrectly, it’s a case of people no longer having the moral code of human beings, and then they are unworthy of being human.
…Some people who have sinned can have their karma eliminated through the death of the physical body and suffering, and then they’ll be free of that karma when they reincarnate. Their livesdon’t really die and they reincarnate again. But the karma that some people have accrued is too much, in which case the fundamental elements of their existence will be implicated and destroyed. Homosexuals not only violate the standards that gods set for mankind, but also damage human society’s moral code.
Li on Interracial Marriage
…Li Hongzhi, the founder of Falun Gong holds that the offspring of cross-race marriage or the “hybrid” is a rootless and aberrant race which marks the extreme morality corruption of human beings in the world today. He says the half-breed – “mongrel” is a plot of aliens. He further explains that the half-breed is a plot of aliens aiming at sabotaging the link between human being and paradise. “The aliens mix up different human races and keep them away from gods,” Li said in Switzerland. He also enumerated 10 kinds of “evils”: the half-breed, gays and lesbians, computer users, tradition disrupters, democracy adherents as well as “science worshipers,” etc.
“In the reincarnation process it is the main soul that reincarnates, whereas what has mixed blood is the flesh body. Different gods created their own different peoples, and in history those gods have all along been taking care of the people they themselves created. White people are white people, black people are black people, and people of the yellow race are people of the yellow race. Any ethnicity in the world is a race that corresponds with the heavens. After mixing blood people no longer have their correspondence to the gods in the heavens.
LI ON THE ALIEN CONSPIRACY
“(Alien beings) want to steal it. They saturate all domains of humankind with science to make human beings firmly believe in science and rely on it. When human beings’ thoughts and way of existence are completely assimilated to theirs, they just have to replace people’s souls and humans will become them, and they will eventually replace the human race…this science was set up by aliens. Their purpose was to unify human beings and simplify their thoughts to the point of being as uniform asmachines. And they unified knowledge to make it easy for them to later on control and replace human beings. Furthermore, they’ve chosen a few nationalities as the vanguards of their future, total control ofhumankind. Japan is the vanguard that drives technology. The United States is the vanguard in breaking away from all ancient cultures on earth. The cultures of even the most ancient and closed-off nations haven’t been able to escape. The whole world is being impacted by America’s modern culture. England was the vanguard in the manufacture of machinery during the early stages, and Spain was the vanguard for mixing the human races. The way alien beings get human beings to shake free ofthe gods is to mix the races, causing human beings to become rootless people, just like the plant hybrids people make nowadays. South Americans, Central Americans, Mexicans and some people in South East Asia – all of these races have been mixed. None of this can evade the gods’ eyes. Alien beings have made rather extensive preparations for overtaking human beings.”[13]
Re: Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
SeekingTruth
()
Date: March 24, 2011 01:46AM
Quote
shakti
I'm confused, Seeking Truth, as to why you posted this here? It is always interesting to read propaganda from the racist, homophobic UFO cult Falun Gong, but you simply posted it without any commentary or analysis of this mix of disinformation and lies? Perhaps you had a hard time posting in your own commentary?
Either way, thanks for posting it, is always interesting to see what the FG is lying about this week!
You're an apologist for the Chinese Communist Party - a far worse cult in its own right than most on the planet including Falun Gong (if the latter is a cult anyway).
The fact remains that eminent researchers - politicians and scientists - from the West have researched the unexplained huge rise in the number of human organs on the world market from China that are available for transplanting. This huge rise can not be explained by the use of organs harvested from prisoners murdered by the regime. This huge rise can only be explained as coming from other human sources in China - to wit: Falun Gong members also imprisoned and murdered by the Chinese Communist regime.
What has Falun Gong got to gain from the telling of such lies when eminent researchers have investigated and drawn independent conclusions that the above is indeed the case.
The issue is not whether Falun Gong is a cult itself. The issue is that members of FG are regularly and consistently imprisoned, medically assessed, and then have their organs removed whilst still alive, to be transplanted into those willing to pay high prices for them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2011 01:48AM by SeekingTruth.
Re: Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: March 24, 2011 04:53PM
'This huge rise can only be explained as coming from other human sources in China - to wit: Falun Gong members also imprisoned and murdered by the Chinese Communist regime.'
I think that this is an unwarranted leap in logic. The source of the organs is unexplained, the huge rise in numbers compared to official execution figures is itself an approximation as the actual figures are unobtainable. That is the nature and problem of dealing with totalitarian organisations, there is neither transparency nor accountability.
I have no doubts that Falun Gong is a cult and that it is persecuted, as are any other dissenting groups and individuals under the Chinese regime. I don't think that Falun Gong is a special case or should be portrayed as such.
I think that trying to present Falun Gong as an even more totalitarian organisation than the Chinese state is laughable, and agree that such a discussion has no place here.
These are basically fundamentalist arguments on both sides and both show a dangerous loss of perspective.
I am just concerned that the factual realities of life for millions of humans under a totalitarian state regime are not dismissed as 'disinformation and lies' in order to score a point against a smaller, privately-run, totalitarian belief system that aspires to a similar control of its members as that currently being exercised by the Chinese state.
To compare two such conflicting evils in order to make a propaganda point in either's favour is odious.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2011 04:55PM by Stoic.
I think that this is an unwarranted leap in logic. The source of the organs is unexplained, the huge rise in numbers compared to official execution figures is itself an approximation as the actual figures are unobtainable. That is the nature and problem of dealing with totalitarian organisations, there is neither transparency nor accountability.
I have no doubts that Falun Gong is a cult and that it is persecuted, as are any other dissenting groups and individuals under the Chinese regime. I don't think that Falun Gong is a special case or should be portrayed as such.
I think that trying to present Falun Gong as an even more totalitarian organisation than the Chinese state is laughable, and agree that such a discussion has no place here.
These are basically fundamentalist arguments on both sides and both show a dangerous loss of perspective.
I am just concerned that the factual realities of life for millions of humans under a totalitarian state regime are not dismissed as 'disinformation and lies' in order to score a point against a smaller, privately-run, totalitarian belief system that aspires to a similar control of its members as that currently being exercised by the Chinese state.
To compare two such conflicting evils in order to make a propaganda point in either's favour is odious.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2011 04:55PM by Stoic.
Re: Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
yasmin
()
Date: March 24, 2011 11:06PM
Hi. On a purely practical level, I gather that there are major questions to be asked about the apparent ease with which organs are being obtained in China.The waiting lists for organs in China, are apparently remarkably low for a country that does not have a high level of social acceptance for body part donations.
The chinese form of execution, with a bullet, does not I believe normally leave most of the organs usable,(corneas of course are still fine) since most organs for transplant need to be harvested from someone with a still beating heart ( hence the term brain dead, and the reason life support is not removed until after the organs such as heart, lungs etc are taken from potential transplant donors.)
In western countries,young motor cycle victims, car crash victims etc are common sources of organ transplants since they may be put on life support before being declared "brain dead", and family members will often give permission for their organs to be removed.
I figured amnesty international would be a fairly unbiased source; they indicate that there are issues with Falun Gong dissidents and others being mistreated in China. I think one page said they were investigating the organ donations, but I could not find that page again. Unfortunately if there is no record or paper work, it is hard to trace such things..Except by looking at numbers, which in this case do not seem to add up.
The chinese form of execution, with a bullet, does not I believe normally leave most of the organs usable,(corneas of course are still fine) since most organs for transplant need to be harvested from someone with a still beating heart ( hence the term brain dead, and the reason life support is not removed until after the organs such as heart, lungs etc are taken from potential transplant donors.)
In western countries,young motor cycle victims, car crash victims etc are common sources of organ transplants since they may be put on life support before being declared "brain dead", and family members will often give permission for their organs to be removed.
I figured amnesty international would be a fairly unbiased source; they indicate that there are issues with Falun Gong dissidents and others being mistreated in China. I think one page said they were investigating the organ donations, but I could not find that page again. Unfortunately if there is no record or paper work, it is hard to trace such things..Except by looking at numbers, which in this case do not seem to add up.
Re: Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: March 24, 2011 11:41PM
[www.cultnews.com]
The face of Falun Gong
Posted in Miscellaneous at 4:08 pm by Rick Ross
By Rick Alan Ross
During December I attended an international symposium concerning cultic studies in Shenzhen, China, which was sponsored by the Institute of Religious Studies of the Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences. Academics and experts from around the world attended and presented papers.
The papers presented examined everything from the evolution of destructive cults, to the personality characteristics of certain cult members, cult social interaction and various cultic methodologies. My paper was titled “Cult Deprogramming: An examination of the intervention process.”
At the conclusion of the symposium I had the unique opportunity to personally visit with former cult members in China.
The two women I spoke with were once actively involved in Falun Gong.
Falun Gong was founded in China during 1992 by a man named Li Hongzhi, who now lives in the United States.
China officially banned Falun Gong in 1999, declaring it an ”evil cult.” This view of the group was strongly reinforced by a horrific event, which took place on Chinese New Year’s eve January 23, 2001. On this date a small group consisting of seven Falun Gong practitioners set themselves on fire at Tiananmen Square.
A 12-year-old girl and her mother died. A middle aged man Wang Jindong was hospitalized with severe burns. Ms. Liu Baorong sustained no burns. At the last minute she decided not to set herself on fire. Mr. Liu Yunfang also was not injured, but as an organizer of the self-immolation was sentenced to prison. The two women I would meet, Ms. Hao Huijun and her daughter Chen Guo, were hospitalized with extreme injuries.
The story of this tragedy has been reported by the press, both in China and through Western media outlets, such as Reuters. I have read news reports and watched a video produced by “New Tang Dynasty Television” (NTDTV), which is a media outlet essentially run by Falun Gong practitioners.
Falun Gong first denied that those involved in the suicide attempt were even practitioners.
Later Falun Gong promoted a bizarre conspiracy theory, which implied that the tragic event was somehow staged by the Chinese government in an effort to discredit the organization and its leader.
Rather than admit that its intense anti-government rhetoric may have contributed to the tragedy, Falun Gong chose instead to attempt assigning blame elsewhere. Li Hongzhi and his followers refused to accept any responsibility whatsoever.
After requesting to meet with the two women survivors I was told a meeting would be possible after the symposium.
Former Falun Gong practitioners Hao Huijun and her daughter Chen Guo live in Kaifeng, which is near the Henan provincial capital of Zhengzhou. Historically Kaifeng was the capital of China during the Song Dynasty and once the largest city in the world. Today its population is about 800,000.
The two women live modestly in a government welfare housing project. Their simple one-bedroom apartment includes a private bathroom and large common area with a kitchen. There is a bed placed near the kitchen for an attendant. The fire left them both women without hands and disabled. Their faces are obscured by extensive skin grafts, the result of multiple surgeries. They have no ears, noses or lips. Chen Guo has the use of only one eye. But they can speak, walk and seem to be in stable physical condition.
There are no mirrors in the apartment.
When I arrived Hao Huijun bowed, unable to shake hands.
dsc_2596-resized.jpgAfter our introductions I asked Hao Huijun about her perspective today, what she feels now looking back on the time she spent in Falun Gong. Is there a message she wants to share with current practitioners, particularly those in North America?
“I’ll take this chance to tell the Falun Gong practitioners in Canada and the US to stop practicing,” she stated bluntly. “I suggest they stop practicing Falun Gong and get rid of it,” instructed the former schoolteacher of 28 years who remains well-spoken and articulate.
Influenced by her mother’s commitment Chen Guo (photo above right in red) followed the path of Falun Gong, which ultimately led her to that terrible day at Tiananmen Square. She was a highly accomplished music student and pretty 20-year-old woman at the time of the tragedy. Early in our discussion Chen Guo left the room, explaining that she didn’t feel well.
But in a 2002 interview Chen Guo told Reuters, “I hope those who still believe in this cult can be awakened and throw it away. I don’t want to see another victim like me.”
Her mother explained, “In July 1999 the Chinese Government and the Chinese laws banned Falun Gong. As a citizen, we should have abided by the laws and given up practicing Falun Gong from then on. But we were obsessed at that time. And the suicidal burning occurred later on. We really feel regretful. We all suffered a great deal, brought about by the obsession. So tell [the North American Falun Gong practitioners] to never be obsessed…”
Obsessed?
How could the teachings of Li Hongzhi encourage and/or result in obsessive behavior?
Describing her professional experience with Falun Gong, noted cult expert and clinical psychologist Margaret Singer said that Falun Gong practitioners will “actually say ‘Don’t Think. Just recite the Master’s teaching.’”
That is how groups called “cults” through their teachings and practices can compromise critical thinking, impair reason and rational thought. Hao Huijun appeared to understand this.
“Please pass my words to Falun Gong practitioners: They should use reason in action…if you look at things in a rational way, you will know what you should do,” she said. “Reason is important. In one’s life, one should never go to extremes whatever you do. One should use reason to learn how to do things, and have a good understanding…”
“Extremes”?
How could the practices of Falun Gong cause people to “go to extremes”?
American communication researchers and cult experts Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman explain in their book Snapping: America’s Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change:
“Almost every major cult and cult-like group we came upon teaches some form of not thinking or ‘mind control’ as part of its regular program of activity. The process may take the form of repetitive prayer, chanting, speaking in tongues, self-hypnosis or diverse methods of meditation….Such techniques, when practiced in moderation, may yield real physical and mental health benefits….Prolonged stilling of the mind, however, may wear on the brain physically until it readjusts, suddenly and sharply, to its new condition of not thinking. When that happens, we have found, the brain’s information-processing capacities may be disrupted or enter a state of complete suspension…disorientation, detachment…hallucinations, delusions and, in extreme instances, total withdrawal.”
Over the years Hao Huijun (photo below) has apparently managed to sort through her experience in Falun Gong. She hopes that current practitioners in the group will do the same.
dsc_2632-resized.jpg“Falun Gong caused so many problems. Why did these problems happen? [Falun Gong practitioners] should think about it with reason, with their own senses, and in a dialectical way. When we look at things from a normal sense, without bias, and with reason, we will know what we should do,” she said.
When told about the conspiracy theories propagated by Falun Gong concerning the self-immolation tragedy at Tiananmen Square Hao Huijun responded thoughtfully, placing it within the context of her own experience within the group.
“I thought in a similar way,” she said. “But it’s time for those who are practicing Falun Gong to calm down and think reasonably…Why were we burning ourselves? It was not that the government forced us into suicide, although the rumors went so. This is not the truth.” She concluded, “Before we fully understood, we used the same arguments and same logic in regard to incidents caused by Falun Gong.”
I told Hao Huijun that I have received complaints from families in America that Falun Gong practitioners often refuse medical care and/or discontinue medications based upon their beliefs.
“They should consult a doctor and take medication,” she responded. “Tell them to see a doctor when their children fall ill. Don’t impose what you regard right on your children,” she said. “You can see the disastrous effect this caused my daughter. I really regret that now.”
The regret Hao Huijun feels must at times be overwhelming.
China has mandated a one child per family policy, which means that Chen Guo is her only child.
Hao Huijun’s regret includes living every day with her daughter and seeing the results of that past obsession with Falun Gong. Despite the reclamation of her reason, there is nothing she can do to change the face of this reality. An awful burden, but one that she seems to accept.
Still wanting to fulfill her role as a teacher Hao Huijun hopes that others might benefit by learning from her Falun Gong experience. She wants to share the knowledge that she and Chen Guo have acquired so painfully.
The face of Falun Gong
Posted in Miscellaneous at 4:08 pm by Rick Ross
By Rick Alan Ross
During December I attended an international symposium concerning cultic studies in Shenzhen, China, which was sponsored by the Institute of Religious Studies of the Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences. Academics and experts from around the world attended and presented papers.
The papers presented examined everything from the evolution of destructive cults, to the personality characteristics of certain cult members, cult social interaction and various cultic methodologies. My paper was titled “Cult Deprogramming: An examination of the intervention process.”
At the conclusion of the symposium I had the unique opportunity to personally visit with former cult members in China.
The two women I spoke with were once actively involved in Falun Gong.
Falun Gong was founded in China during 1992 by a man named Li Hongzhi, who now lives in the United States.
China officially banned Falun Gong in 1999, declaring it an ”evil cult.” This view of the group was strongly reinforced by a horrific event, which took place on Chinese New Year’s eve January 23, 2001. On this date a small group consisting of seven Falun Gong practitioners set themselves on fire at Tiananmen Square.
A 12-year-old girl and her mother died. A middle aged man Wang Jindong was hospitalized with severe burns. Ms. Liu Baorong sustained no burns. At the last minute she decided not to set herself on fire. Mr. Liu Yunfang also was not injured, but as an organizer of the self-immolation was sentenced to prison. The two women I would meet, Ms. Hao Huijun and her daughter Chen Guo, were hospitalized with extreme injuries.
The story of this tragedy has been reported by the press, both in China and through Western media outlets, such as Reuters. I have read news reports and watched a video produced by “New Tang Dynasty Television” (NTDTV), which is a media outlet essentially run by Falun Gong practitioners.
Falun Gong first denied that those involved in the suicide attempt were even practitioners.
Later Falun Gong promoted a bizarre conspiracy theory, which implied that the tragic event was somehow staged by the Chinese government in an effort to discredit the organization and its leader.
Rather than admit that its intense anti-government rhetoric may have contributed to the tragedy, Falun Gong chose instead to attempt assigning blame elsewhere. Li Hongzhi and his followers refused to accept any responsibility whatsoever.
After requesting to meet with the two women survivors I was told a meeting would be possible after the symposium.
Former Falun Gong practitioners Hao Huijun and her daughter Chen Guo live in Kaifeng, which is near the Henan provincial capital of Zhengzhou. Historically Kaifeng was the capital of China during the Song Dynasty and once the largest city in the world. Today its population is about 800,000.
The two women live modestly in a government welfare housing project. Their simple one-bedroom apartment includes a private bathroom and large common area with a kitchen. There is a bed placed near the kitchen for an attendant. The fire left them both women without hands and disabled. Their faces are obscured by extensive skin grafts, the result of multiple surgeries. They have no ears, noses or lips. Chen Guo has the use of only one eye. But they can speak, walk and seem to be in stable physical condition.
There are no mirrors in the apartment.
When I arrived Hao Huijun bowed, unable to shake hands.
dsc_2596-resized.jpgAfter our introductions I asked Hao Huijun about her perspective today, what she feels now looking back on the time she spent in Falun Gong. Is there a message she wants to share with current practitioners, particularly those in North America?
“I’ll take this chance to tell the Falun Gong practitioners in Canada and the US to stop practicing,” she stated bluntly. “I suggest they stop practicing Falun Gong and get rid of it,” instructed the former schoolteacher of 28 years who remains well-spoken and articulate.
Influenced by her mother’s commitment Chen Guo (photo above right in red) followed the path of Falun Gong, which ultimately led her to that terrible day at Tiananmen Square. She was a highly accomplished music student and pretty 20-year-old woman at the time of the tragedy. Early in our discussion Chen Guo left the room, explaining that she didn’t feel well.
But in a 2002 interview Chen Guo told Reuters, “I hope those who still believe in this cult can be awakened and throw it away. I don’t want to see another victim like me.”
Her mother explained, “In July 1999 the Chinese Government and the Chinese laws banned Falun Gong. As a citizen, we should have abided by the laws and given up practicing Falun Gong from then on. But we were obsessed at that time. And the suicidal burning occurred later on. We really feel regretful. We all suffered a great deal, brought about by the obsession. So tell [the North American Falun Gong practitioners] to never be obsessed…”
Obsessed?
How could the teachings of Li Hongzhi encourage and/or result in obsessive behavior?
Describing her professional experience with Falun Gong, noted cult expert and clinical psychologist Margaret Singer said that Falun Gong practitioners will “actually say ‘Don’t Think. Just recite the Master’s teaching.’”
That is how groups called “cults” through their teachings and practices can compromise critical thinking, impair reason and rational thought. Hao Huijun appeared to understand this.
“Please pass my words to Falun Gong practitioners: They should use reason in action…if you look at things in a rational way, you will know what you should do,” she said. “Reason is important. In one’s life, one should never go to extremes whatever you do. One should use reason to learn how to do things, and have a good understanding…”
“Extremes”?
How could the practices of Falun Gong cause people to “go to extremes”?
American communication researchers and cult experts Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman explain in their book Snapping: America’s Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change:
“Almost every major cult and cult-like group we came upon teaches some form of not thinking or ‘mind control’ as part of its regular program of activity. The process may take the form of repetitive prayer, chanting, speaking in tongues, self-hypnosis or diverse methods of meditation….Such techniques, when practiced in moderation, may yield real physical and mental health benefits….Prolonged stilling of the mind, however, may wear on the brain physically until it readjusts, suddenly and sharply, to its new condition of not thinking. When that happens, we have found, the brain’s information-processing capacities may be disrupted or enter a state of complete suspension…disorientation, detachment…hallucinations, delusions and, in extreme instances, total withdrawal.”
Over the years Hao Huijun (photo below) has apparently managed to sort through her experience in Falun Gong. She hopes that current practitioners in the group will do the same.
dsc_2632-resized.jpg“Falun Gong caused so many problems. Why did these problems happen? [Falun Gong practitioners] should think about it with reason, with their own senses, and in a dialectical way. When we look at things from a normal sense, without bias, and with reason, we will know what we should do,” she said.
When told about the conspiracy theories propagated by Falun Gong concerning the self-immolation tragedy at Tiananmen Square Hao Huijun responded thoughtfully, placing it within the context of her own experience within the group.
“I thought in a similar way,” she said. “But it’s time for those who are practicing Falun Gong to calm down and think reasonably…Why were we burning ourselves? It was not that the government forced us into suicide, although the rumors went so. This is not the truth.” She concluded, “Before we fully understood, we used the same arguments and same logic in regard to incidents caused by Falun Gong.”
I told Hao Huijun that I have received complaints from families in America that Falun Gong practitioners often refuse medical care and/or discontinue medications based upon their beliefs.
“They should consult a doctor and take medication,” she responded. “Tell them to see a doctor when their children fall ill. Don’t impose what you regard right on your children,” she said. “You can see the disastrous effect this caused my daughter. I really regret that now.”
The regret Hao Huijun feels must at times be overwhelming.
China has mandated a one child per family policy, which means that Chen Guo is her only child.
Hao Huijun’s regret includes living every day with her daughter and seeing the results of that past obsession with Falun Gong. Despite the reclamation of her reason, there is nothing she can do to change the face of this reality. An awful burden, but one that she seems to accept.
Still wanting to fulfill her role as a teacher Hao Huijun hopes that others might benefit by learning from her Falun Gong experience. She wants to share the knowledge that she and Chen Guo have acquired so painfully.
Re: Falun Gong - live harvesting of body parts by Chinese doctors
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 24, 2011 11:41PM
(Glum)
A brief sideline before we return to this discussion
We must hope that stem cell research will advance so that it will soon become possible to grow histocompatible donor organs and end the current procedure of taking organs from deceased persons.
It is utterly wrong for China to apply the death penalty so liberally, no matter who is being killed.
And there are ethical problems with too easy availability of donor organs to those who can buy them--people in poor parts of the world are under economic duress to sell kidneys, for instance.
A brief sidelight on part of the reason why we have longer wait lists for donor organs in the US, at least.
Unforseen circumstances, namely compulsory helmet laws in many states.
Ten plus years ago, I served on a jury for a medical malpractice case.
A surgeon who testified said that compulsory helmet use laws for motorcyclists had so greatly improved accident survival and so reduced death rates that there were fewer donor organs available--and wait lists had become longer.
And in a book of Chicago Police interviews by Connie Fletcher, in her book Pure Cop, one of the officers said that
in a grim joke, motorcyclists who rode without helmets were nicknamed 'donorcycles.'
[www.kpcnews.net]
james_t10-22-2007, 02:52 PM
Can I ask what the big deal is about motorcycle helmets? When my wife worked in the ER, they used to call unhelmeted riders "donorcycles" because if a rider without a helmet got in a wreck they were an instant organ donor.
No one likes legislated behavior, but I guess my question is, why don't people want to wear them anyway?
txranger05-19-2008, 03:26 PM
I gotta go along with Tankfrx and MC. But, what's the difference in having a choice in wearing a motorcycle helmet or not? I've been riding since I was 16 (2 days younger than dirt) and can say that everywhere I lived, I always chose to wear one (ever have a potato bug hit you between the eyes at 35mph?). Saved my life one more than one occasion! You do know that in the Hospitals, bikes are referred to as 'donorcycles'?
[2coolfishing.com]
Corboy note: am mentioning the helmet law situation to account for part of the reason why there are shortages of donor organs in so many first world countries.
I am wary of any situation period where waiting lists for donor organs are short, and organs are too easily available to those with money.
I dont know all the facts on Falun Gong.
However, the situation in China does appear to give a ghastly incentive to retain the death penalty given that the method used leaves dead person's organs in useful condition and brings in those all important medical tourist dollars.
Anyone who receives an organ from someone who submitted to organ extortion under economic duress or who was murdered under pretense of law, at bare minimum, a recipient of stolen goods taken from the poor and oppressed.
This gives an unspoken message to donors and to their families that mere continuation of biologica/social existence is worth another person's brutally shortened life.
That would be a vile message to leave one's children and grandchildren.
Someone maybe GB Shaw in Saint Joan wrote, that there is more to life than breathing in and out.
Back to our discussion thread.
[www.urbandictionary.com]
A brief sideline before we return to this discussion
We must hope that stem cell research will advance so that it will soon become possible to grow histocompatible donor organs and end the current procedure of taking organs from deceased persons.
It is utterly wrong for China to apply the death penalty so liberally, no matter who is being killed.
And there are ethical problems with too easy availability of donor organs to those who can buy them--people in poor parts of the world are under economic duress to sell kidneys, for instance.
A brief sidelight on part of the reason why we have longer wait lists for donor organs in the US, at least.
Unforseen circumstances, namely compulsory helmet laws in many states.
Ten plus years ago, I served on a jury for a medical malpractice case.
A surgeon who testified said that compulsory helmet use laws for motorcyclists had so greatly improved accident survival and so reduced death rates that there were fewer donor organs available--and wait lists had become longer.
And in a book of Chicago Police interviews by Connie Fletcher, in her book Pure Cop, one of the officers said that
in a grim joke, motorcyclists who rode without helmets were nicknamed 'donorcycles.'
[www.kpcnews.net]
james_t10-22-2007, 02:52 PM
Can I ask what the big deal is about motorcycle helmets? When my wife worked in the ER, they used to call unhelmeted riders "donorcycles" because if a rider without a helmet got in a wreck they were an instant organ donor.
No one likes legislated behavior, but I guess my question is, why don't people want to wear them anyway?
txranger05-19-2008, 03:26 PM
I gotta go along with Tankfrx and MC. But, what's the difference in having a choice in wearing a motorcycle helmet or not? I've been riding since I was 16 (2 days younger than dirt) and can say that everywhere I lived, I always chose to wear one (ever have a potato bug hit you between the eyes at 35mph?). Saved my life one more than one occasion! You do know that in the Hospitals, bikes are referred to as 'donorcycles'?
[2coolfishing.com]
Corboy note: am mentioning the helmet law situation to account for part of the reason why there are shortages of donor organs in so many first world countries.
I am wary of any situation period where waiting lists for donor organs are short, and organs are too easily available to those with money.
I dont know all the facts on Falun Gong.
However, the situation in China does appear to give a ghastly incentive to retain the death penalty given that the method used leaves dead person's organs in useful condition and brings in those all important medical tourist dollars.
Anyone who receives an organ from someone who submitted to organ extortion under economic duress or who was murdered under pretense of law, at bare minimum, a recipient of stolen goods taken from the poor and oppressed.
This gives an unspoken message to donors and to their families that mere continuation of biologica/social existence is worth another person's brutally shortened life.
That would be a vile message to leave one's children and grandchildren.
Someone maybe GB Shaw in Saint Joan wrote, that there is more to life than breathing in and out.
Back to our discussion thread.
[www.urbandictionary.com]
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