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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche Issues Public Statement on Recent Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
Posted by: Misstyk ()
Date: October 20, 2017 05:32AM

ollaimh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i still have faith and good knowledge with the
> sakyas under jetsun kushock. she has a small
> following but that's a good sign. she teaches a
> full esoteric practice of several deities that
> include the full path. i also had good
> experiences with kusam linpa. he gave very good
> instructions in a full dzogchen practice and
> didn't care about a lot of centers or the
> money.(he refused steven segal who offered a lot
> of money to be named a tulku) he did have same
> crazy students. i would also not mind fpmt centres
> as lama zopa is dedicated and a monk. we need
> more monks leading dharma like in the old
> days.chagdud tulku was also a good teacher. his
> california centres are still running but i don't
> know what's happening but he did name an american
> as his dharma heir over the expected son, which
> shows an interest in dharma over building a family
> business.
>
> however many other groups have become rich
> churches.
>
> dzongsar khyentse wrote years ago to beware of
> tibetan lamas who come to the west and get
> corrupted by wealth and power. i think he was
> speaking of himself.
>
> i think we need a new western buddhism.

It's good to know there are some bright spots out there.

I have to say, though, I attended a ceremony by Lama Zopa about 10 years ago, and he seemed to be too old to be able to stay focused. It was supposed to be an evening ceremony, but he rambled so much through it that it went on toward midnight, with quite a few people having left before that point, and then the facility had to close, so the proceedings were cut off without completion. So I don't know how effective a teacher he is at this point. I'd heard a lot of good things about him, but things didn't work out, that evening. He didn't make a good impression.

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Re: Vajrayana Sects Reprogram Human Persons into Soft Machines
Posted by: ollaimh ()
Date: October 20, 2017 12:49PM

this is sadly true of the big church vajrayanna groups. i know a few less wealth oriented groups that do actually criticizes abuses within vajrayanna, and do teach well. however vajrayanna was abolished in japan and a few other countries for their abuses.

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche Issues Public Statement on Recent Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
Posted by: ollaimh ()
Date: October 20, 2017 12:52PM

lama zopa is well over the hill, hwoever when i met him about ten years ago, although be certainly rambled, he did give a good teaching if you had the patience to sit through. the major one i went to went at least ten hours overtime the last day. now i would go to his students. they do teach ethical behavior and have renunciate leadership.

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche Issues Public Statement on Recent Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
Posted by: Misstyk ()
Date: October 21, 2017 03:49AM

Aaaaand, just when you thought you'd heard it all, folks, Dzongsar Khyentse gets even more outrageous! He posted a "joke", online, about some kind of "insurance" policy for gurus, to protect them against accusations of inappropriate sexual activity with their students! It was taken down within 24 hours, a new record for DKR, who has in the past made a number of inappropriate blame-the-victim posts, that have done the TB tradition more harm than the good he imagined he was doing, and ended up later deleting them.

His severe cluelessness about the entire issue is laid bare here: his cluelessness regarding the concepts of clergy fiduciary duty toward their followers and violation of trust issues, his complete absence of understanding of the psychology of vulnerable individuals coming from abusive backgrounds looking to religion for some healing, and his, and his colleagues' sense of entitlement to women's bodies that is part-and-parcel of the Vajrayana tradition since its inception over 1000 years ago, and his failure to see the trauma that often results from trusted teachers insinuating themselves into their students' bodies, not to mention the unwanted pregnancies and ruined lives resulting from failed tantric sex techniques intended to prevent pregnancy.

I'm hoping this link will serve to connect you to his latest volley in the evolving (long overdue) firestorm over guru sexual misconduct:

[wetransfer.com]

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche Issues Public Statement on Recent Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
Posted by: Misstyk ()
Date: October 21, 2017 07:10AM

Just a note to say that the link I provided goes to a pdf to download. I'm not able to copy and paste it here. You need to click on a permission window, then you can download the pdf. to your screen.

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche Issues Public Statement on Recent Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: October 21, 2017 07:27AM

That's an offensive pdf. It's implication I guess it that you can't set things in stone. But err... y'kinda can. Just don't molest people who can't make a consensual decision because you've convinced them they need you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2017 07:33AM by happytown.

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche Issues Public Statement on Recent Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 21, 2017 08:26AM

Here is a wee story.

Long ago, I took a class on sexual ethics at seminary. One day, the
professor posed a question:

If you are a clergy person and someone comes to you for pastor counseling, is it OK for you to indulge in erotic fantasies about that person.

Our seminary was located in an ultra liberal town. So everyone in class
agreed it was harmless to indulge this kind of fantasizing.

The professor paused then told us she'd ask another question and we were to
raise our hands immediately if we agreed.

The question was -- Do you believe in the power of prayer?

Our hands went up.

At that point, our professor paused and said, "Since you believe in the power of prayer, that means you'd be a fool not to believe that fantasy is powerful
as well."

Be aware of wish fulfillment fantasies, yes.

But...do not indulge them. They are powerful.

Well, since these Vajrayana types believe in the power of fantasies -- look
at the thousands of repetitions of visualizations tantrists must do --
many of those fantasies being candidly erotic --

what happens if they allow themselves to fantasize taking possession
of nubile, adoring and submissive disciples?

Disciples who are adoring and submissive because they've observed the senior
students
adore, submit and speak glowingly of the guru?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2017 02:04AM by corboy.

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche Issues Public Statement on Recent Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
Posted by: happytown ()
Date: October 21, 2017 10:22PM

"Until then, when your guru chairs a board meeting and it becomes obvious that he has no clue about an issue, as a prudent member of that board you shouldn’t hesitate to supply him with the information he needs. At the same time, as a Vajrayana student, you must skilfully remind yourself the guru only looks clueless to you because of your own impure perception, and that by appearing to need your assistance the guru is actually giving you the chance to accumulate merit."

I CAN'T BELIEVE I ACTUALLY USED TO THINK LIKE THIS!!!!!

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Why not bless the animals, oh tantric masters?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 22, 2017 02:17AM

But, this is the noble, ancient, oppressed culture that regarded Drukpa Kunley and his Wonder Weiner as purveyor of enlightenment.

[www.google.com]

In the West, Drukpa Kunley would be on the Sex Offenders' Registry -- unless
of course, he arrives clad in silk and brocade as a giggling Tibetan Buddhist guru, accompanied by an entourage.

Oh, wait. This already happened.

Chogyam Trungpa.

Seriously, folks. If these tantric willy wavers really believed they should shag everyone into enlightenment, they'd shag everyone and everything, no matter what species, no matter what the personal appearance.

They'd ignore ranchers with firearms and visit all the sheep farms and cattle ranches. They'd visit the stables at Newmarket, etc. Stop off in Dubai and
bless the camels.

And the greyhound tracks, too.

So...why do these tantric purveyors of enlightenment mostly focus on
young, good looking humans, eh?

Thoroughbred race horses are beautiful.

Whey didnt ol' Choygam go bring
his Magic Shaft to the races? To the suffering animals at the veterinary hospitals?

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche Issues Public Statement on Recent Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
Posted by: Misstyk ()
Date: October 22, 2017 03:37AM

happytown Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Until then, when your guru chairs a board meeting
> and it becomes obvious that he has no clue about
> an issue, as a prudent member of that board you
> shouldn’t hesitate to supply him with the
> information he needs. At the same time, as a
> Vajrayana student, you must skilfully remind
> yourself the guru only looks clueless to you
> because of your own impure perception,
and that by
> appearing to need your assistance the guru is
> actually giving you the chance to accumulate
> merit."
>
> I CAN'T BELIEVE I ACTUALLY USED TO THINK LIKE
> THIS!!!!!


Isn't that the ultimate gaslighting technique? Training you to believe your perceptions don't count and aren't trustworthy. That's very insidious. But also keep in mind that this is what narcissistic parents do to their kids: deny the child's perceptions, lead them to think their thinking is off-base. Kids raised in an environment like that grow up to be extremely vulnerable to predators and scammers, because they don't know how to listen to their inner voice, their gut feelings about things. Something tells me that TB groups, especially those run by these ego-driven opportunists, are full of people who grew up trained not to trust their instincts or to think about their own needs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2017 03:42AM by Misstyk.

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