The Krishna outreach emphasizes yoga and meditation. What "intelligent persons"
(ISKON-Speak for potential converts) are not told is that the smiling person facing them is a Hare Krishna recruiter who believes the non ISKON world is hell and women are only for housekeeping submission to the husband and birthing Krishna babies.

The smiling recruiter will not inform you of ISKON dogma concerning women, sex and children. For this read an account by a former ISKON devotee who spent over 10 years in the movement.

ISKON What I learned: Women Sex and Children

[surrealist.org]

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6
I learned that service to Krishna trumps mundane morality and ethics—that ethics is, most fundamentally, whatever serves the mission (ethics based on any other motivation is mere sentimentality and mental speculation). To get one of our books or other products into the hands of a non-devotee, and to separate him or her from their money, one could say and do virtually anything. I learned that, despite appearances, such actions could not be called lying or cheating, because they represent the enactment of a higher law, meant for the true benefit of the donor.

77
I learned that human beings who are not members of the Hare Krishna movement are essentially clueless as to the nature of reality, and that it is our momentous duty and thankless task to enlighten them. Since most people are not intelligent or pious enough to realize the truth of our lofty teachings directly, we must do whatever is necessary to get them to buy our things and donate money, whereby they will benefit indirectly. In other words, we're so unfailingly kind and compassionate that we will skillfully bypass their external consciousness (which rejects Krishna) and compel them ("by hook or crook," in Prabhupada's words) to give us money, which will earn them Krishna's blessings (like it or not).

From Oh The Things That I Have Learned! Steven J Gelberg

Steven J. Gelberg was a member of ISKCON (the International Society for Krishna Consciousness) from 1970 through 1987 (ages 18-35).

Corboy note: Gelberg's information must be taken seriously. Gelberg was an ISKCON devotee for seven consecutive years that Prabhupada was alive. He would have seen what ISKON was from its early days and for six years following Prabhupada's death - a time when ISKCON was rocked by murders and drug smuggling scandals)

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

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Just as native Arctic peoples possess a multiplicity of words for snow, we spiritual islanders had a wealth of terms for the vast hoards of non-devotees surrounding us: conditioned souls, sense-gratifiers, fools, rascals, meat-eaters, materialists, mental speculators, miscreants, and demons (along with the proper Sanskrit term for each). I learned that it was necessary to be tough-minded and unsentimental in our view of fallen humanity.

23
I learned that any critic of ISKCON is, by definition, a demon. Who but an evil person would want to criticize something as good, pure and holy as Krishna consciousness?

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I learned that any such criticism, even if it seemed that it might have substance, was null and void, because it came from meat-eaters and sex-mongers. What could they possibly know?

25
I learned that whatever admirable qualities a non-devotee may appear to have—however seemingly benign, benevolent or admirable—the mere fact that the person is not a devotee of Krishna renders him a sinner, to be avoided at all costs. Even our biological family and former friends were to be avoided as far as possible, lest we become contaminated or, alternatively, incinerated: to associate with non-devotees was, according to our scriptures, tantamount to entering "a cage of fire."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2020 09:21AM by corboy.

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ISKON What I learned: Women Sex and Children
>
> [surrealist.org]
>

Actually, it's "ISKCON", not "ISKON". You'd come across as a more credible and well-informed source of information, if you spelled the name if the cult right. Just sayin'. :-)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2020 07:15AM by The Whirlwind.

I've always had Bad Luck

With the Hare Krishnas...

But is it True that...???

My first experience with Hare Krishna's was with "a right-wing zealot." He was convinced that ONLY the Hare Krishna path was correct, that it was BEST way for EVERYBODY and he meant to argue about this until you were pounded into submission.

This Hare Krishna was like John Brown but without the guns. If being a member of ISKCON was supposed to bring you inner peace, then this gent was definitely not the Poster Boy.

My next experience was with a gay Hare Krishna monk in India who, despite my polite refusals, did not want to take no for an answer. "I'm a bad monk," he smiled.

Third, in India I walked a Hare Krishna woman back to her temple and at the entrance to the women's quarters was barred by guards (with scimitars ready to draw?) saying, "Close enough!"
This, from the religion that extols Krishna with his 10,000 lovers, seemed a bit off, but...

Then, I discovered the HUGE amount of Child Abuse being committed by the staff of Hare Krishna orphanages. Statistically, the Hare Krishna's would seem to make all but the worst of Roman Catholic priests nothing but amateurs.

Finally, to my question.
More recently, I found out that, allegedly,

sincere Hare Krishnas have to believe that the world is flat.

Allegedly, this belief is required because of how some of their sacred scriptures described the creation and status of our world.

Is this so? Really?

Good gods. I'd had really bad experiences with "the Krishnas" in many ways, but holding that the earth is flat...

Really?

No, this is not true. The bhu-mandala is flat, but the planet we inhabit is spherical. The Surya Siddhanta confirms this.

[iskconnews.org]

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2020 05:49AM by The Whirlwind.

Here's another way of looking at it: the ISKCON Disciple Course, which prospective initiates must take and be tested on before being awarded diksa (initiation, in other words) does not mention a belief in a flat Earth as a necessary prerequisite for being initiated. ISKCON has been using the Disciple Course for the last five years or so. So no, it's not true that sincere Hare Krishnas have to believe that the Earth is flat. For that matter, it's also not true that sincere Hare Krishnas have to believe that the moon landings were faked. I know devotees who deny the moon landings, and I also know devotees who believe that the landings were bona fide. Just like any other group, Hare Krsnas are not monolithic in nature, and there is a lot of diversity of belief, with respect to Vedic cosmology and various interpretations of it. The Disiple Course handbook is here, and this is "official" Hare Krsna doctrine. Nothing about a flat Earth (or the moon landings) there:

[www.iskcondisciplecourse.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2020 07:26AM by The Whirlwind.

ISKCON is an organization that I am very knowledgeable about. Ask me anything.

Hare Krsnas (in North America) don't really "recruit" like they used to in the old days. Back then (late Sixties/early Seventies) the vast majority of devotees (like ninety-nine percent of them) lived in temples and anybody who did not live in a temple (on the whole) was not considered a devotee. Today, in 2020, it's just the opposite; ninety-nine percent of Hare Krsnas live outside of temples, and have regular jobs, pay rent, own homes and cars, raise families, and all that. In other words: ISKCON used to be a temple-based organization, but today it's a congregationally-based organization. Practically nobody lives in temples in North America anymore, except priests and sannyasis, and even then it's rare and sannyasis are constantly traveling anyway. I know of only three temples in North America that even have brahmacarya ashrams anymore: Denver, L.A., and San Diego. Most temples have no living accommodations, or guest facilities (except sannyasis' quarters). Only the farming communities have substantial guest accommodations.

So I don't know how ISKCON could be "recruiting" anybody anymore, especially in the age of Covid. The most that your average chanters on the street, and book distributors are trying to do, is merely spread the faith and encourage people to be God conscious. There's not much to recruit anybody TO, and most temples aren't going to let anybody move in anymore. Even then, the temples that will let prospects move in are pretty selective and will not tolerate slackers, moochers, or anybody that's not serious about learning about Krsna consciousness. It's a military-type environment, an ashram envoronment is, that is highly structured and regimented, and requires discipline to live and survive in. The hippie days are OVER, and it's not much of a "movement" anymore.

ISKCON is an organization that I am very familiar with. Ask me anything.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2020 04:25AM by The Whirlwind.

PS: in other words, corboy, Steve Gelberg's stuff is very dated, and while a lot of what he has to share might have been true circa 1972, it's just simply not a reflection of life in ISKCON (in North America) in 2020. Gelberg's stuff is very dated, but it's valuable for historical purposes. That's how things USED TO BE (in his experience) but not how it is TODAY. I do not know a single devotee who refuses to use use toilet paper, for example. Even the Indian devotees I know, use toilet paper. When I lived in an ashram, toilet paper was freely available. That's a laugh to me, the myth that Hare Krsnas don't use toilet paper. It's comical, to me.

"8

Among a million other practical matters, I learned that it is wrong to use toilet tissue after "passing stool" (that being the proper term). I learned this on my first full day in the ashram. I had just completed the act, noticed that the dispenser was empty, called out to anyone who might hear asking where I might find the toilet paper, and was answered by a disembodied voice explaining that using toilet paper is the "smear-method" and that water and fingers are the appropriate tools for the job."

[surrealist.org]

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2020 04:37AM by The Whirlwind.

PS PS, corboy: I am not trying to defend or apologize for ISKCON, in writing of of this. My only agenda is to clear up misinformation and dispel myths. Most Hare Krsnas do use toilet paper, and do not believe the Earth to be flat. When you see people chanting on the street or in park, they are not trying to "recruit" you, because there is nothing to recruit you TO, as most temples (in North America) will not let you move in anymore. There are so many myths about ISKCON and the world of the Hare Krsnas out there on the Web, that I had to clear some things up. That's my only agenda here.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2020 04:48AM by The Whirlwind.