Has anyone been shunned or 'ghosted'? How did you heal?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 27, 2017 05:17AM

Has anyone been shunned or 'ghosted' by their sect, their healing group
or church?

How was it done?

How did you get through it?

What helped the most?

There is a variety of this that I term "strategic rejection".

Your guru or master or whatever picks up that you've lost enthusiasm
or are no longer malleable.

Instead of just kicking you out, the guru promotes you , makes you feel loved, wanted and right when you're feeling high as a kite -- you're kicked out right at the moment your heart is wide open.

Kicked out and with zero explanation.

Your real 'crime' might be that you were on the point of outgrowing the guru and leaving the group of your own volition.

Rather being glad that you've matured, the envious guru cannot allow you to
enjoy this. Perhaps this guru is someone who is narcissistically threatened
by any disciple who is reaching a level of healing that the guru has failed
to attain.

What better way to wound someone through this type of rejection so that
rather than freely leaving the guru, the victim is trapped in a cycle
of self recrimination and cannot access his or her actual maturity.

If you've been through this, examine whether you were progressing just before the guru set you up with praise and then kicked you out.

Have others who been kicked out with no explanation and shunned. Look for them. Social media is a godsend.

Compare stories. And consider the possibility that you were 86'd because you
outgrew the guru or just knew too much.

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Re: Has anyone been shunned or 'ghosted'? How did you heal?
Posted by: Leslie Read ()
Date: October 28, 2022 10:47AM

What got me through it?...Ultimately using my voice, which had been silenced (under threat) for a decade while I was isolated and witnessing my family be ripped apart.
Not an overnight transformation but a definitive one. Best wishes...



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Re: Has anyone been shunned or 'ghosted'? How did you heal?
Posted by: newday4U ()
Date: July 28, 2023 08:34PM

Thank you, corboy, for this post. It wasn't until I read it that I finally understood what had happened to me.

How did it happen? It's a long story so I will try to keep it shorter. I followed my friends and therapist of 20 years out of the Michael Mamas cult during the time of covid. They had been doing a Radha-Krishna chant given to them by a sannyasi they called Swamiji and it had been transforming their lives for the better, giving them amazing energy, insight, and happiness. They taught me the chant and I kept in touch with them after they left. Because of covid, I wasn't allowed to visit them, and classes/kirtans were held on Zoom or Skype. Eventually, they had to leave the house they were sharing and so people scattered but still kept a cohesiveness through phone calls and the every evening Zoom classes with Swamiji. One couple stayed in my area and we got together several times. Another woman I had known for 20 years in the Michael Mamas cult and we spoke regularly by phone.
This woman, whom I'll call C, told me she was helping Swamiji pay his monthly bills. The group had started a non-profit in order to help Swamiji but she was going outside of it. Nearly two years ago she started having personal difficulties; she was in an MVA, her eldest daughter died suddenly, and she had anxiety and health issues. She shared some of this with me and I tried to be supportive. But she started having difficulty attending class because she would get too anxious and irritated by the sounds of everyone singing. She also stopped calling me because she couldn't tolerate hearing or thinking about what I was saying. One evening Swamiji called me, very concerned about her because she had expressed suicidal thoughts to him. He had sent her some expensive herbs for anxiety (after she had refused his suggestion to use cannabis) but she couldn't follow the protocol. He asked me to go help her; at the time I believed that Krishna spoke through the guru because it was confirmed by scripture. I called her and she was totally distraught; she asked me to help her. So I dropped everything and flew to her home two days later.
And that's when I started learning some very disturbing things. Swamiji had told her about this experience of his that led her to believe he is Krishna. He later told me the same story (based on what I know now, this story sounds more like an LSD trip than an enlightenment experience of Oneness). He also told her, and me in a phone conversation, that she is Radha and that he wanted her to be with him. They were talking on the phone for hours multiple times a day. C's husband was unaware of her financial support of Swamiji nor of their emotional involvement. My friend was a functional wreck; I had never seen such a level of anxiety, insomnia, and depression. She stayed in bed for hours, chanting. I tried to help her with the herbs but she couldn't remember when to take them and had difficulty swallowing them. Fortunately, her husband had made appointments for her with a psychiatrist and I was able to encourage her to take the anxiety and depression meds. While I was there I reached out to two people in the group and learned that Swamiji had a history of "getting enmeshed with women". I also learned about some questionable things that had happened when they were all living with Swamiji during covid.
When I returned home, I tried to talk about my experience with the couple I knew in the group, but they really had no explanation and seemed to be comfortable blaming the craziness on C. They seemed willing to accept that Swamiji was Krishna.
And then Swamiji decided to "take a break" from holding evening classes, or so he told me. And the break lasted for months, or so I thought. I texted him several times but he never responded. About three months ago one of the group members who has been with Swamiji for a long time texted me that "Swamiji is upset with me because of C and has told him not to have any contact with me." I was stunned. I thought that was very odd that he would go along with it and not think it was a ridiculous request. I spoke with the couple I knew and they said Swamiji didn't want them to have any contact with me and had told them they couldn't attend class if I was visiting them; so they canceled my planned visit. They also said they had been told that "Swamiji was still working with my spirit and soul." No one would explain why Swamiji was upset with me, even though they knew. I emailed him but he never responded.
During this time my husband had been talking to me about manipulative behavior but I really didn't get it until two friends said, "It sounds like a cult."

What helped the most? I realized I didn't even know the basics about cults and so I started researching and writing down everything I was learning. Steven Hassan came up of course, but also the International Cultic Studies Association with their very helpful videos and links. I would find one site, then look at their links, which is how I came here. I'm so very thankful for people's honesty about their experiences and for their willingness to share the knowledge they have learned. This is how I learned that I had been in not one but two cults. All I know about Swamiji is that his name is J. Taylor and he lives in Nanaimo, Canada. He wears the orange robe and has long grey hair and a beard, and wears glasses. What he taught us was a mixture of ISKCON and Kripalu with some Sikhism thrown in. So of course I've had to learn about those cults, too. As well as Transcendental Meditation and Maharishi Mahesh because that's what Michael Mamas taught. Corboy also recommended two books by Agehananda, which I am currently reading. My husband wonders if I'll ever be finished researching!

How did you heal? Well, that's still a work in progress. The tremendous pain and heartbreak from the betrayal and loss, from the realization of the shunning, really brought me to my knees. I am fortunate to have a loving and supportive husband and daughter, and two dear friends, who have listened to me without blaming me for my ignorance. Fortunately, the worst of the pain, sadness, and grief are passing. I no longer cry every day. I have written letters to the group that I'll never send; I understand that they are victims of the cults, too, even if they are also perpetrators of the cultic abuse. Where I am stuck now is with the spiritual abuse. What does my spiritual practice look like now? What does it consist of? I had such wonderful spiritual experiences with Radha and Krishna, which were confirmed by Swamiji, but were they real? Or a figment of my imagination? Do I continue to worship them even though there are cults built around them, and the way I was taught to do sadhana is from a cult? Do I continue to meditate? To chant? To sing bhajans? I believe in a loving God/Lord; I've read quite a bit of Emanuel Swedenborg. But what is my relationship with Him/Her now? This is my struggle. I know I must find the answers for myself, and I believe I will. Eventually.

Thank you for the opportunity to post in this forum. I believe this is part of my healing.

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Re: Has anyone been shunned or 'ghosted'? How did you heal?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 28, 2023 11:35PM

I grew up not knowing what genuine attuned connection was. I fell for a series of authority figures who mimicked this. Because they were self centered they were not capable of genuine attunement. To compensate for this lack they cultivated charm, eloquence, learned how to stroke our emotions, push our buttons just the way someone patting our dog's butt gives the pup pleasure -- and wins our trust.

A pick up artist or guru does this as a technique to win trust and seduce. But this same person dumps us the moment he/she senses we can't be controlled.

A person with a loving heart will pat our dog's butt and win our trust -- but does not dump us when we show autonomy.

Earlier discussion of Michael Mamas


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2023 09:52PM by corboy.

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Re: Has anyone been shunned or 'ghosted'? How did you heal?
Posted by: newday4U ()
Date: July 29, 2023 08:11PM

Beautifully said, Corboy. I, too, grew up not knowing what a "genuine attuned connection was" or how to recognize it in others. It is one of my pet peeves about Christianity (my childhood religion) that they focus on saving but then do not seem to know how to create a lasting, even perpetually evolving, personal connection with the divine. Could it be that they fear one would become autonomous then and not need to return every Sunday? I had very early spiritual experiences (age 4!) that they ignored. And yet I can see the beauty in Christianity while at the same time avoiding the dogma. Maybe this is true spiritual maturity: to take the beauty and purity from a religion and leave the dogma. But of course, there is no religion or guru that would support or encourage such a stance!

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Re: Has anyone been shunned or 'ghosted'? How did you heal?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 29, 2023 10:19PM

Along with Agehananda Bharati, I highly recommend Alexandra Stein's Terror, Love, and Brainwashing.

She tells us exactly what is done to recruit and then keep us in abusive groups and guru set ups. The basic recipe. Trauma bonding.

Here are some references to Alexandra Stein.


(Bookfinder dot com is a great place to go and comparison price books)

I learned about Bharati's books over 15 years ago. A lot of new things have been learned about attachment styles and how gurus and other dictators use these to create and maintain abusive systems. Alexandra Stein's insights will help you spot the same dynamics in any person who excitedly recruits you to another group or guru. That rapid shift from excited glowy eyed bliss to blank stupor, icy arrogance or fear the moment ones guru is questioned.

(Group ridicule is often mobilized to punish dissent --- and bust down anyone showing dangerous signs of autonomy)

Bharati will tell us how stereotyped and performative the guru business is. It can be considered a branch of theatre arts except that people tricked into handing their inner lives and finances over to these vultures.

Unlike acting or singing, the guru role is 24-7 and life long. IMO no human gonads and nervous system can withstand the temptation of being on the guru pedestal. It is as toxic an occupation as coal mining without a mask.

The student role is degrading as well -- the power imbalance plus the squabbling over status brings out the worst in everyone.

(Glum) Religion, whether church, shul, dharma center, mosque, or guru, is a business.

New customers are all very well, but to survive, businesses need repeat customers. Get them hooked.

Gurus seem strong, but most are fragile personalities who only feel secure when with persons they can predict and control. The dangerous ones erode whatever autonomy we possess, get us to trust only them and drop our outside friends and interests. Once we are emotionally dependent, they sneak in the fear messages along with the bliss.

Especially clever gurus will give the bliss messages and arrange for other members to whisper the scary guru stories to you. You'll feel too scared to verify if the stories are true, so you stay on the guru's good side.

There is an anticult educator named Joe Szimhart who found Agehananda Bharati helpful in another way.

This is a long read but a great introduction to Bharati's surprising take on the link between enlightenment, religions and aesthetics.

Gurus Up the Ladder


Bharati grew up in Vienna as an art and music lover when Vienna was among the standout world centers for music and theatre and painting.

Bharati experienced non dual realization in Europe as a boy and later, in India as a Hindu monastic. Still later, when it was legal, he took LSD -- real deal, pure Sandoz tablets.

Bharati was also sexually experienced. He tells us that orgasm, LSD and non drug enlightenment were, for him, the same state.

And he concluded that all of these states were...aesthetic.

As for character, he states that non dual realization will not make you a better person any more than expertise in playing the cello will teach you to love your neighbor as yourself. A stinker (Bharati's words) can experience genuine non dual realization and remain a stinker.

If an asshole is to stop being an asshole and become a decent human being, repentance, making amends those we have harmed, and life time commitment to a character training program are what is needed, not trips to the opera or visits to yet another guru.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2023 11:34PM by corboy.

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Re: Has anyone been shunned or 'ghosted'? How did you heal?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 29, 2023 11:53PM

Guru tricks - weaponized laughter

(Go to the search bar, select All Dates and then put laughter guru. laughter satsang in there and see what comes up.


Keeping people waiting and arriving late


Commonplace stories used by gurus -- according to Aghenanda Bharati, in Indian culture one is expected to tell these stories when performing the guru role.


More recently in the West, scheming crooks use these stories as part of trance induction -- and Indian gurus take care to study these tricks -- just as today they hire consultants to use search engine optimization(SEO) to put their ashrams on Google page One -- and BURY abuse reports. And hire lawyers to send dissidents scary letters.

You can't do any of this tactical shit if you are in the midst of nondual realization.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2023 12:05AM by corboy.

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