It's unusual that Moo would ask for the people's forgiveness. Are we getting closer to a confession from Moo?

His team are asking people to stop kissing Moo's feet, too. Now, a simple 'namaste' on greeting the great Moo will suffice.

Why? Why the changes?

We are in the dark here.

Henri Jolicoeur has taken down his material -that is a turnabout. Henri seemed very adamant that Moo was public enemy number one.

Be Schofield's article has polarized a lot of people.

Here are a couple of facebook comments I lifted from a public page... anyone can view this page. I feel very protective of the authors of such comments... (even though I think that most do not use their own names.)

"Jon" writes:



"I’ve seen Mooji yell at others. I’ve heard him say he knows people are afraid of him. He is a bully. And he also has a big heart so it makes it very confusing. I think also a lot of “traumatic bonding” goes on there, from what I saw anyway. I feel that same anger when I think solely of those I know he has abused. And the details of that abuse. And then I remember my time with him and I know he also has a lot of kindness. He’s very split. I think he started teaching at a very young stage of his awakening and stopped there. He didn’t deal with integration. That’s why he can’t help others do it."

and also:

"I have met Mooji. I do know personally over a half a dozen people who have felt personally abused by him. I also have read on here of other teachers who have had people come to them about the same. I have read on utube and on twitter and on Instagram people resonating with this article (Be's article) and sharing personal stories. I do not make this statement lightly. I have been watching this for a long time. I have met Mooji. I have been to Sahaja. And at one time I loved him so much I thought I would never need anything else but his pointings. I am sorry to say through a long and painful process that I have discovered many, many things about him that make him no longer authentic. This story has been shared over 450 times. On average around 1000 people are friends of those who you can see the friends. I have observed on open discussions people unfriending others over this. People resonating with this and people sharing these same stories. I don’t know Be at all. But these people are not lying about what they have experienced to their friends, and being unfriended for it. There is teeth to this. From my experience. I know this. And I am sorry that it has come out this way. I know many who have reached out to Mooji personally through his ask Mooji email. I know he cut them off. It’s a theme. I’m sorry. I wish it wasn’t so. There is a lot we don’t know."

I just noticed a new facebook group: Mooji Cult Abuse Recovery Group

It appears to be a closed group which is good... you have to join.

The description says: "This group is for people to share about the abuse they have experienced within the Mooji movement."

Questions asked when you press join are: "Please declare, "Mooji is not my Guru. He is not enlightened. I am not connected to him in any way."

and

"Is your intention for joining to receive support or support those that have?"

I was thinking that more and more of these kinds of things would be popping up. Let's hope they're good at weeding out trolls, and help people that have seen through Tony Moo to connect with each other to organize and heal.

Yea Tolle has no ashram nor does R.Sphira orAdyashanti as far as I know....I am sure they figure the risks are to great. Jk NAVOIDED THE GURU ROle like the plauge.. Look at Da ADI free John his places really had some scenes going on... So it goes how MOOJI DOES IN THE END WHO KnOWS...HIS POINTING IS POWERFUL. Use like a tool and be greatfull for the help he can provide...

Clearvision,

that is very interesting. I think we will see a lot of support groups being set up now, as there seems to be more victims willing to talk about their experiences.

These support groups are set up by kind-hearted people with the best of intentions. However, I will urge people to be very careful, as such groups attract Moo cult members who wish to infiltrate the groups and cause havoc.

Moo Cult members can be cunning and cruel as a friend of mine recently discovered. Sometimes people's comments are copied from private conversations and posted publicly in order to discredit the victims or reveal their identity. Please use caution when meeting new contacts online.

(Ok, I sound like everyone's Mom, but so be it.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2019 06:01AM by Sahara71.

"If (a guru's teaching) requires a giant hall, it's probably gotten out of hand and will no longer serve anyone's genuine spiritual interests."

As a courtesy, could we keep capital letters to a minimum.

Using too many capital letters is like shouting.

For perspective, a former disciple of Adi Da wrote an essay that is thoughtful
and has many interesting points.

[brokenyogi.blogspot.com]

Here are a few excerpts.

Quote

When Ramana Maharshi went to Arunachula, he renounced everything, and survived only by the help of some local sadhus. Slowly, over the years, an ashram grew up around him, but Ramana would never allow it to be commercialized in the least.

He forbid anyone to solicit donations, and he and his fellow renunciates lived on the spontaneous kindness of local people, who would donate food or supplies as needed.

Ramana said repeatedly that they should simply rely on Grace to bring them sustenance, and this occurred, not in any great avalanche of support, but enough to keep the ashram alive, and slowly growing in a simple way over the years through patronage. Ramana felt that if what he was doing was genuinely worthwhile, the support would appear, and if not, so be it.

The same ought to be true for the modern western spiritual movements and teachings. There should simply be no commercial enterprises associated with spirituality, aside from the very basic needs of publications and occasional places of worship or meditation.

The basis for any spiritual “movement” should simply be human intimacy and love, people sharing with one another the fruits of their own spiritual practice, without money changing hands. There should be no charge for “satsang” or teachings of any kind – except, as needed, some books and publications. But even these should not be heavily promoted as some kind of commercial enterprise, hawked like late-night infomercial products advertising salvation. Genuine spiritual teachers should inspire private patronage for the most part, and if they do not, they shouldn't expect to be supported by “consumers” of spirituality.

It's not merely the cult-model of spiritual organization which needs to be done away with, it's the entire commercial model of salesmen and consumers. Tony Robbins is not what we want the future of spirituality to be about.

These people and their emulators (I'm talking to you, Ken Wilber) have no genuine spiritual teachings to offer, they only have something to sell to people who are bereft of the spiritual. But like fast-food, these things do not satisfy. They don't provide the human intimacy and love that are the real signs of genuine un-cultic spirituality. They are trying to sell something which can't be sold, which can't be bought, but which is only excluded by the effort to create such an enterprise.

I have nothing against business, money, commerce (or sex for that matter), but it simply is not part of spirituality.

If anything, spirituality is a way of disciplining and guiding our use of money and the ethical participation in commerce, which is difficult enough within its own world. But there's a natural hierarchy here, and it only goes one way. Money should not dictate our spirituality, or shape it in any way. Spirituality should, if anything, dictate how we earn and use money.

If we find ourselves shaping our spirituality into a money-making enterprise, we are turning it upside down and in effect reversing its power, turning it into something which degrades us rather than elevates us. This happens even on the smallest of levels, when we ask for $5 at the door for some spiritual “talk”. Most spiritual teachings can, like Prem Avadhoot's, be delivered for free in someone's living room. If it requires a giant hall, it's probably gotten out of hand and will no longer serve anyone's genuine spiritual interests.

Quote

The very notion that “new is better” needs to be called into question. In many respects it is not. There's certainly much that is corrupt and cultic about old systems of spirituality, but one has to appreciate how well-oiled many of them were within the context of their cultures, and that removing them from that context often leaves behind many of the safety mechanisms that actually protected people from being exploited by cults.

There are a great many traditional maxims in Hinduism, for example, that can help identify genuine Gurus and discriminate them from those who are of suspect morality and ethics and lack real qualifications to teach. Very few modern spiritual teachers could pass the tests those cultures create for spiritual teachers.

And likewise, those cultures also created qualifications and tests for spiritual aspirants, which weeded out those not well suited to the seriousness of the spiritual path, and kept people from straying beyond their real aspirations into esoteric practices they were not suited for.

Among those guidelines for both teacher and student were some very specific rules for living that might seem to us to be rather ascetic and hard to live up to, but if we look at them more closely we can see the wisdom of them.

The first and in some ways the most obvious rule was that money and sex should not be involved in spiritual pursuits.

Ramakrishna famously warned that “women and gold” were the great dangers that all spiritual aspirants should stay clear of. Most modern spiritual teachers and seekers tend to ignore this injunction, referring to it as antiquated, not in keeping with the times, and ignoring the necessity and centrality of both money and sex to human life, and especially modern human culture. It turns out that they do so at great peril and risk, and few of them are able to navigate thought these waters successfully.

If there's a lesson in the experience of modern cultism it is that Ramarkishna was basically correct. Wherever we see commerce introduced into the world of spirituality, we find corruption, exploitation, degradation of morality and ethics, and spiritual teachings and practices become so corroded by the needs of commerce as to become indistinguishable from any other sales category of modern economic life.

The notion that spirituality should be set apart from such things is treated with contempt and derision. The notion that sacred relationship should actually be cultivated is considered an anachronism unsuited to the needs and qualities of our age. And yet, if we look at the evidence dispassionately, and without constantly deferring to the commercial needs of the marketplace, I think we can see that this influence has had a deadly and deadening influence upon everything it has touched.

I am not merely referring to the most exploitive of Gurus who attempt to drain off the financial resources of their devotees.

I refer just as much to the whole range of commercial enterprises, most of them quite legitimate in many respects, that surrounds spirituality in our time. I refer to the endless number of spiritual teachers who charge money for their services, for their “coaching” of others, for their seminars, programs, books, audio and videotapes, for “readings”, for channeled services, for ashrams and centers and retreat facilities. The list goes on. Many of these enterprises are, on the face of it, even justifiable. Certainly we cannot expect books and tapes to be free. Certainly if someone gives a public lecture, there will be expenses that have to be paid for. And such people have to make a living somehow, and if they have to work an ordinary job, they won't have much time left to teach.

All these explanations make a certain amount of practical sense. And yet, in the course of making these spiritual pursuits into a career, a business, a machine that is dependent first and foremost on a cash-flow machine, the spirituality becomes corrupted by the entire process.

This is why the traditional admonition for those who become spiritual teachers is to take vows of poverty, and not to profit from their teachings. They are permitted to accept small donations that are enough to give them the bare basics of life, but not much more. Nor is it expected that they would need more than that.

In this way, a basic degree of integrity is maintained for these teachers, and most of all, for their relationship to those they teach, which is relieved of the whole obligation to act as businessmen serving their clients, but as the living embodiment of spiritual wisdom itself.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2019 09:53AM by corboy.

thanks Sarah71

I do think thwre is definitely a need for the kind of groups that bring people together especially to confirm that your experience is actually genuine. The reality is that sometimes it is possible ( even certain) that you will doubt any of it happened and start believing that it is your imagination or that you have gone mad or something , speaking to or reading someone elses experience about it is like a grounding , a reality check

However !! Facebook!!! he he mmmm not sure its the best location for something like that but what do i know eh?

I might have a look at it though

Thanks

Here is someone who is saying that someone tried to recruit him from Mooji’s cult and he shares what they said and dissects it.

[youtu.be]

can’t speak on the sexual nature of abuse but as someone who’s spent thousands of hours in online satsang w Mooji over the past 3 years - i am familiar with the nuances of the climate there and whats promoted / encouraged /upheld -
i can see where psychological trauma could result if the teachings are now being used to serve him, where he should be in service to them. Yes truth combusts into paradox but personal motivations will open the doors of the house to manipulative tendencies and clever excuse for lack of moral compass. If you expect Mooji to confess, feel remorseful about , focus upon, his dynamic existence, I wouldnt hold your breath. He is "vaccinated" in the knowing that it isn’t our business - our job is to watch, be one with the self. He will often quote Nisargadatta Maharaj “I leave my human nature to unfold according to its destiny. I remain as I am.”

Who’s the blame? Nobody. If anyone’s to blame must be Paramatman
… or something. And then who’s going to take Paramatman
to court? Must be Paramatman

In Sahaja Express May 7 2017 “The True Yoga of Being” Mooji says he will get very strong feelings of poison/toxins in the body especially after satsangs, body saturated by people’s yuck, the seeming repercussions being he will develop cravings for spicy food and “strong Youtubes”, habits in the body that he has to push/work against. i have not heard him speak on any perceived personal weakness.. he will say, “there’s no perfect personality, not one being has been loved by all, not even God” He says he is not too hard on himself nor on others

For the record, the mind according to mooji is personhood. And that while still in the state of dreaming you’re a person, the ego mind is basically satan - the serpents voice, until seen through. The team has coined the term “sleeping pill questions” for base questions asked in satsang such as how to raise kundalini. Sahajans do not promote kundalini they actually strongly discourage it as they say it can leave bodies wrecked and in wretched states of uncontrollable movement for long periods of time, strange reckless energy - to hell with the chakras etc

It’s true the mind won’t cooperate with anything that threatens its individuality. What if tho, one is on board w freedom from the ego but jeez, we work a lot here (this has been voiced at satsang via Sahaja Express before) nonetheless in the end it doesn’t matter who works the most/hardest, he selects who stays based on their energy. Or Guruji i can recognize it from the place of consciousness but i feel i used to be kinder and more humble before (what the bhajans piano player German devotee expresses in 2/25/19 Sahaja Express “ God Is Testing You — And You Are Overcoming!“) Mooji says it’s the devil’s final punch, to make you feel like the failed sadhaka, and if you wanna leave go ahead but where would you go anyway? You’d be taking your mind with. And how you’d betray all your sangha brothers and sisters (summarizing - do watch w free promotional subscription if curious). Or based off his spontaneous moods being righteously or self-righteously (depending) strong and chopping the belief in ourselves as persons - can mess with some beings’ sense of reality/ seem abusive or gaslighty especially as he most likely forgets about it the next minute.
Or maybe the devotee ego too dense and that’s frustrating for a guru who indeed is hungry for success stories, a radiantly mature sangha, in part because it reflects well on and satisfies his self image, provides proof that he’s still got it (grace). He’ll smdh @ people for leaving Sahaja prematurely or at all, or for Tiru (where u may not be challenged), hypothetically asking the sangha “if i chose 30 of you to work with more intimately [like apostles or something], would you be it?” It is not uncommon to hear declarations/affirmations to Mooji such as “I am 100% here for this” in a very earnest way almost as if submitting /surrendering a part of their spirit to him at the mic, which in any genuine devotee/guru relationship must happen, i just dont know what’s gone wrong w Mooji and sahajans

tbh i kinda digg the whole come up for air and the guru sticks ur head under water over and over til u kinda asphyxiate and die , but i could see where some would not take to that, and where i could be wrong and the feeling of intimate hurt is strong if somehow laced with personal motivation from the master

Anyway, the collectively embraced spirit of Sahaja is pretty unsparing. It aspires for the highest , to live free from the sense of any rights and free from sense of will. The only real choice is to choose freedom. And freedom has chosen you! So what’s it gonna be? You’re free to be free, free to be bound. Just kno that jus cause your world appears to be true, doesn’t mean it’s Truth.

Here is a transcription from an interview where he talks about how there’s no such thing as free will, the false illusion of an even playing field in the human kingdom , and how law of attraction works at level of identity:

"Under any sort of true scrutiny, we cannot admit to have real choice, because if we had full choice, we’d all be living exactly the life that we wished in our minds to live. And that’s clearly not the case. What we are living is the fruit of our maturity, also. And I say that of course, while there is a sense of autonomy, if we were will-less, then there could not be the sense of autonomy. So when consciousness choose to manifest as diverse beings, it must imbue those beings with a sense or the illusion of making individual purposeful independent choice — even independent of God. And that’s where I believe how we inherit arrogance, which itself creates in us a deeper sense of separateness — for a while. Because no one can be lastingly arrogant. Because with mature arrogance comes deep pain, at some point. And what I said was that nobody can act contrary to the will of the Supreme, meaning that there isn’t…

Can I say something…it might sound a bit crazy, because for me, there is not any separate people doing any separate things actually. Because I can only go so far with saying things like that and then I have to confess that I can’t go further with that I cannot admit that they are independent people doing independent things. Any more than I can say that there are waves - individual waves - going their own way on the surface of the ocean. For a while it seems like that, and I can still understand that because we are living in a very diverse field of consciousness expressing itself into the form of varying levels of human experience and spiritual maturity and so on. So we’re not fooled, we live in an environment where there are people wiser than ourselves and more foolish than ourselves so we are seeing this, if you are at least smart enough to see that and admit that — that there’s a place where you are speaking with beings who have an inflated idea of their own autonomy. And even though life is showing them clearly that they don’t, they cannot admit that. So that is one of the great things of consciousness for me, and at the same time there are others who seem to be so attuned to consciousness in its authentic expression, and also have a sense of surrendered their idea of personal will, and seem far freer and happier in their life. Yet these two extremes rarely meet to talk because it’s almost as though there’s an incapability at the level of Identity … really distances us from real common sense understanding. I call wisdom God’s common sense, basically. And we seem to not be able to function in that way. So the idea about free will and the human being having free will to do things, I feel it is an exaggeration and it is one of our primary illusions. I feel that we have to be kept in that illusion for a while because it gives us a kind of Black Happiness. It’s like you think you’re happy, but you’re still in a state of depression, thinking that you’re happy. As we begin to come out of that sleep, then your capacity to grasp life in a wider more panoramic field, that begins to show up, and only, I feel, as we are coming out of one state, into another maybe subtler or higher state, can we look back to evaluate the state we have been in previously. While we’re in it, it’s like, it becomes our entire world. When you are leaving it, it becomes a bubble in the infinite ocean. And I feel that some beings see that and grow tremendously from that insight. And yet others we are quick to forget and perhaps also there’s a seed of ingratitude also, that slows down our capacity to absorb Great Things while our attention is fixed on such small measures. So my feeling if we want to speak about choice, I feel the real choice, the most active alive choice, is the choice to either go with the drifting streams of our mind, or to stay as the witness of what is arising and not get caught up emotionally or to identify with the phenomena that’s only, it’s only sort of momentary or fleeting. That I think is the real power, if you want to speak about choice. Is how much are we able to stay in the observing place, which doesn’t mean that your body does not move, your body can move and do its thing, but inside, the state of the mind remains in a state of tranquility or it stays in the heart. So there’s more space. Anyone whose mind is in the heart has inherited a tremendous space. It’s like the whole universe becomes yours. If your mind is in the body and in the world, even a palace will feel claustrophobic for you."

Idk. It resonates here. Mooji got me thru some very dark times. I have learned and transcended and discovered depths of myself and others that i dont believe would be possible without his satsangs...it helped me grow up quickly. i do love him and thank him..my soul needed it and i have begun to see the importance and how blessed I am to have been somehow given this opportunity to see from the pure place
but to see from the pure place and to also transcend naiveté

which in this case may mean moving on from mooji
-_-



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2019 12:28PM by klaklaklak.

Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's unusual that Moo would ask for the people's
> forgiveness. Are we getting closer to a confession
> from Moo?
>
> His team are asking people to stop kissing Moo's
> feet, too. Now, a simple 'namaste' on greeting the
> great Moo will suffice.
>
> Why? Why the changes?
>
> We are in the dark here.



Indeed we are in the dark... Others have had the same question. You will find the relevant video on a Facebook page called: Questioning Mooji with interesting comments about it.

Check out Amma Tanya Whites videos all of them from a month ago have numbers as titles and some are missing altogether. Her initial statement ends in 18 sec or something like that. Henri’s are also all gone. Seriously doubt they took them down. Be is the only one left standing.

I’m pretty new to the forum and had no idea the amount of suppression of descent Mooji has orchestrated. That’s flat out dictatorship.