Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: September 23, 2019 05:18AM
Maria Lena - good for you! Let hope and pray that you get your money back, as you well deserve and as everyone who has been ripped off by this cult deserves, too.
A document was given to me by a former cult member a few days ago - I will publish it here with their full permission.
----------------------------------------------------
Moo enterprise per year (blue color shows estimation, black shows confirmed numbers)
India:
2000 participants, 25 days
Satsang is free, but from my own seva experience I know how much money people donate.
2000 people giving 2€/day for 25 days = 100.000€
Shop 25 days: 12.500€
India altogether: 112.500€
Zmar retreats:
800 paying participants (375€) 300.000€
856 online participation (115€) 98,440€
7 days shop selling somethink like 50.000€
Income just from one Zmar reatreat: 448.440€
2 Zmar retreats per year: 896,440€
9 Sunday satsangs:
each 650 participants
Satsang is free, suggested donation 5€ per person: 3250€ per satsang
Shop: 3000€ per satsang
9 Sunday satsangs: 30.250€
Lisbon Intensive:
766 participants in person (300€): 229,800€
1000 online (77€): 77.000€
Shop: 30.000€
Lisbon intensive: 336.800€
2 Sahaja retreats
721 participants in person (375€): 270.375€
2000 online (123€): 246.000€
Shop during 20 retreat days: 30.000€
2 Sahaja retreats: 546,375€
One sangha gathering in MS, 7 days:
440 participants, satsang free
Housing and food (35€/day): 107.800€
Donations: 5000€
Shop: 10.000€
One sangha gathering: 123.800€
One being forum, 1 day
2500 participants (30€): 75.000€
Donations and shop: 5000€
Online participation?
One being forum: 80.000€
Madrid sangha satsang, one day
1040 participants (30€): 31.200€
Donations and shop: 3000€
Online?
Madrid sangha: 34.200€
Sahaja express:
Cost: 25€, subscribers: 2500: 62.500€ per month
Sahaja Express subscription per year: 750.000€
Karma yogis staying in Sahaja:
50 people, cost 35€/day= 1750 per day
Karma yogis housing and food per year: 638.750€
Moojis houses/appartments rent:
8 houses /appartments: 500€/month
Rent per year: 48.000€
Online Shop
12.000€ per year
Booksales on Amazon or other platforms
1000 books per year, 15€ per book: 15.000€
Food paid by visitors and workers who live outside
40 people per day: 5€ for one meal, 10€ for 2 meals: 146.000€
Snack Shop and Cafe in MS:
200€ per day: 73.000€
Summed up here we have 3.204.365€, but there is one important source of income still missing:
General Donations:
Moo gets Millions of € per year from donations. This is summed up via small donations from many people and „big“ donators, who spend 100.000€ per year or more.
Estimated: 3 mio €
Alltogether: 6.204.365€ per year
Even if some numbers are estimated too high, there is still a huge gap between the official numbers which can be found here: [beta.companieshouse.gov.uk]
How is Moojis empire structured:
UK Mooji Foundation Ltd : [beta.companieshouse.gov.uk] This foundation has 1 paid employee and is giving money to Associacao Mooji sangha.
Mooji Media Ltd : [beta.companieshouse.gov.uk] All profits are donated to UK Mooji foundation Ltd.
ASSOCIAÇÃO MOOJI SANGHA: Monte Sahaja ashram belongs to this foundation. The foundation gets itsmoney from Mooji foundation Ltd
The land Monte Sahaja does not belong to Mooji himself, close devotees bought it and later it become part of this foundation.
Jai Sahaja—Alojamento e Comercio de Productos Basicos, LD: housing in MS and product selling
Just as s reminder how spiritual teachers-gurus, who charge money, should handle it: (from Rick Ross)
"You are right these are "different times" that require different steps taken to insure integrity and prevent abuse.
When people like Mooji run a large enterprise that has substantial cash flow, but is supposedly for a spiritual nonprofit purpose, there must be meaningful financial transparency and accountability. Otherwise it becomes a cash cow for the guru to milk for his or her own selfish needs.
Meaningful financial transparency includes an annual published budget published publicly and/or distributed to all supporters, which discloses all expenses, salaries and compensation paid out from organizational funds in detail and that is independently audited by a reputable firm.
In addition to meaningful financial transparency there must be meaningful accountability to a democratically elected board
composed of board members that serve fixed terms elected by the general membership of the organization.
There must be organizational corporate bylaws in place that explicitly provide for all of this otherwise the organization is little more than a dictatorship subject to the whims and selfish desires of the leader or guru."
A document was given to me by a former cult member a few days ago - I will publish it here with their full permission.
----------------------------------------------------
Moo enterprise per year (blue color shows estimation, black shows confirmed numbers)
India:
2000 participants, 25 days
Satsang is free, but from my own seva experience I know how much money people donate.
2000 people giving 2€/day for 25 days = 100.000€
Shop 25 days: 12.500€
India altogether: 112.500€
Zmar retreats:
800 paying participants (375€) 300.000€
856 online participation (115€) 98,440€
7 days shop selling somethink like 50.000€
Income just from one Zmar reatreat: 448.440€
2 Zmar retreats per year: 896,440€
9 Sunday satsangs:
each 650 participants
Satsang is free, suggested donation 5€ per person: 3250€ per satsang
Shop: 3000€ per satsang
9 Sunday satsangs: 30.250€
Lisbon Intensive:
766 participants in person (300€): 229,800€
1000 online (77€): 77.000€
Shop: 30.000€
Lisbon intensive: 336.800€
2 Sahaja retreats
721 participants in person (375€): 270.375€
2000 online (123€): 246.000€
Shop during 20 retreat days: 30.000€
2 Sahaja retreats: 546,375€
One sangha gathering in MS, 7 days:
440 participants, satsang free
Housing and food (35€/day): 107.800€
Donations: 5000€
Shop: 10.000€
One sangha gathering: 123.800€
One being forum, 1 day
2500 participants (30€): 75.000€
Donations and shop: 5000€
Online participation?
One being forum: 80.000€
Madrid sangha satsang, one day
1040 participants (30€): 31.200€
Donations and shop: 3000€
Online?
Madrid sangha: 34.200€
Sahaja express:
Cost: 25€, subscribers: 2500: 62.500€ per month
Sahaja Express subscription per year: 750.000€
Karma yogis staying in Sahaja:
50 people, cost 35€/day= 1750 per day
Karma yogis housing and food per year: 638.750€
Moojis houses/appartments rent:
8 houses /appartments: 500€/month
Rent per year: 48.000€
Online Shop
12.000€ per year
Booksales on Amazon or other platforms
1000 books per year, 15€ per book: 15.000€
Food paid by visitors and workers who live outside
40 people per day: 5€ for one meal, 10€ for 2 meals: 146.000€
Snack Shop and Cafe in MS:
200€ per day: 73.000€
Summed up here we have 3.204.365€, but there is one important source of income still missing:
General Donations:
Moo gets Millions of € per year from donations. This is summed up via small donations from many people and „big“ donators, who spend 100.000€ per year or more.
Estimated: 3 mio €
Alltogether: 6.204.365€ per year
Even if some numbers are estimated too high, there is still a huge gap between the official numbers which can be found here: [beta.companieshouse.gov.uk]
How is Moojis empire structured:
UK Mooji Foundation Ltd : [beta.companieshouse.gov.uk] This foundation has 1 paid employee and is giving money to Associacao Mooji sangha.
Mooji Media Ltd : [beta.companieshouse.gov.uk] All profits are donated to UK Mooji foundation Ltd.
ASSOCIAÇÃO MOOJI SANGHA: Monte Sahaja ashram belongs to this foundation. The foundation gets itsmoney from Mooji foundation Ltd
The land Monte Sahaja does not belong to Mooji himself, close devotees bought it and later it become part of this foundation.
Jai Sahaja—Alojamento e Comercio de Productos Basicos, LD: housing in MS and product selling
Just as s reminder how spiritual teachers-gurus, who charge money, should handle it: (from Rick Ross)
"You are right these are "different times" that require different steps taken to insure integrity and prevent abuse.
When people like Mooji run a large enterprise that has substantial cash flow, but is supposedly for a spiritual nonprofit purpose, there must be meaningful financial transparency and accountability. Otherwise it becomes a cash cow for the guru to milk for his or her own selfish needs.
Meaningful financial transparency includes an annual published budget published publicly and/or distributed to all supporters, which discloses all expenses, salaries and compensation paid out from organizational funds in detail and that is independently audited by a reputable firm.
In addition to meaningful financial transparency there must be meaningful accountability to a democratically elected board
composed of board members that serve fixed terms elected by the general membership of the organization.
There must be organizational corporate bylaws in place that explicitly provide for all of this otherwise the organization is little more than a dictatorship subject to the whims and selfish desires of the leader or guru."
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Maria Lena
()
Date: September 24, 2019 12:29AM
I copy the reply about mu complaint ,
Dear Ms
Your complaint about Mooji Foundation Ltd
I am writing further to your complaint dated 22 September 2019 regarding Mooji Foundation Ltd. We have looked at your concerns and for the reasons explained in this email your complaint is outside of our remit.
The complaint
You told us that your complaint is that you want your money back from Mooji Foundation Ltd. To support your complaint you provided a copy of the emails you exchanged with the charity.
Within the attached emails, you said that you would like the money back for the online retreats and subscriptions you purchased as you feel “cheated” as Mooji is not genuine. You also said that your “feeling is that I bought something in poor condition, like when you buy from Amazon and the product does not work out well. In this case worse because it sells something that is very intimate, sells awakening and plays with your heart, love and affection.”
The emails show that you have received a refund for the donations you made to Monte Sahaja but to date, you have not received a refund for the online retreats and subscriptions paid to Sahaja Express.
You have also provided us with links to two websites that suggest that the charity is a religious cult.
Our role
Part of our role is to investigate complaints from members of the public about charitable fundraising practice where these cannot be resolved by the fundraising organisations themselves. We do so by considering whether the fundraising organisation has complied with the Code of Fundraising Practice (the code), which outlines the legal requirements and best practice expected of all charitable fundraising organisations across the UK. Where poor fundraising practice is judged to have taken place, we can make recommendations for remedy and implement changes to the code.
Reasons for our decision
From our initial consideration of your complaint, we note your primary concerns relate to if Mooji Foundation Ltd is a genuine charity rather than fundraising. On this basis, you complaint is outside of our remit.
However, it is our view that your concerns may be of interest to the Charity Commission for England and Wales. The Charity Commission is responsible for ensuring that charities are accountable, well run and meet their legal obligations. You can read more about the Charity Commission via this link to their website: [www.gov.uk]. If you would like to register your concerns directly with the Charity Commission you can do so by completing their raise a concern form: [forms.charitycommission.gov.uk]
You can also report your concerns regarding the products that you believe you were mis-sold to Trading Standards who gather intelligence to protect businesses and consumers from criminal activity. You can find out more about your local Trading Standards office by following this link :[www.citizensadvice.org.uk]
We are sorry that we are unable to assist you with your complaint but we hope we have explained clearly why.
Yours sincerely,
Kind regards
Karen Dempsie
Case Officer
Fundraising Regulator
CAN Mezzanine
2nd Floor, 49 - 51 East Road
London N1 6AH
T: 0300 999 3412
The Fundraising Preference Service is now live. More information can be found here.
W: www.fundraisingregulator.org.uk
Email signature new fundraising code
The Fundraising Regulator is a company limited by guarantee (No. 10016446) registered in England and Wales.
The registered office address is:
2nd Floor, CAN Mezzannine, 49-51 East Road LONDON N16AH
So, next thing to do is write tonthe Charity Comission
Dear Ms
Your complaint about Mooji Foundation Ltd
I am writing further to your complaint dated 22 September 2019 regarding Mooji Foundation Ltd. We have looked at your concerns and for the reasons explained in this email your complaint is outside of our remit.
The complaint
You told us that your complaint is that you want your money back from Mooji Foundation Ltd. To support your complaint you provided a copy of the emails you exchanged with the charity.
Within the attached emails, you said that you would like the money back for the online retreats and subscriptions you purchased as you feel “cheated” as Mooji is not genuine. You also said that your “feeling is that I bought something in poor condition, like when you buy from Amazon and the product does not work out well. In this case worse because it sells something that is very intimate, sells awakening and plays with your heart, love and affection.”
The emails show that you have received a refund for the donations you made to Monte Sahaja but to date, you have not received a refund for the online retreats and subscriptions paid to Sahaja Express.
You have also provided us with links to two websites that suggest that the charity is a religious cult.
Our role
Part of our role is to investigate complaints from members of the public about charitable fundraising practice where these cannot be resolved by the fundraising organisations themselves. We do so by considering whether the fundraising organisation has complied with the Code of Fundraising Practice (the code), which outlines the legal requirements and best practice expected of all charitable fundraising organisations across the UK. Where poor fundraising practice is judged to have taken place, we can make recommendations for remedy and implement changes to the code.
Reasons for our decision
From our initial consideration of your complaint, we note your primary concerns relate to if Mooji Foundation Ltd is a genuine charity rather than fundraising. On this basis, you complaint is outside of our remit.
However, it is our view that your concerns may be of interest to the Charity Commission for England and Wales. The Charity Commission is responsible for ensuring that charities are accountable, well run and meet their legal obligations. You can read more about the Charity Commission via this link to their website: [www.gov.uk]. If you would like to register your concerns directly with the Charity Commission you can do so by completing their raise a concern form: [forms.charitycommission.gov.uk]
You can also report your concerns regarding the products that you believe you were mis-sold to Trading Standards who gather intelligence to protect businesses and consumers from criminal activity. You can find out more about your local Trading Standards office by following this link :[www.citizensadvice.org.uk]
We are sorry that we are unable to assist you with your complaint but we hope we have explained clearly why.
Yours sincerely,
Kind regards
Karen Dempsie
Case Officer
Fundraising Regulator
CAN Mezzanine
2nd Floor, 49 - 51 East Road
London N1 6AH
T: 0300 999 3412
The Fundraising Preference Service is now live. More information can be found here.
W: www.fundraisingregulator.org.uk
Email signature new fundraising code
The Fundraising Regulator is a company limited by guarantee (No. 10016446) registered in England and Wales.
The registered office address is:
2nd Floor, CAN Mezzannine, 49-51 East Road LONDON N16AH
So, next thing to do is write tonthe Charity Comission
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: September 24, 2019 05:49AM
Yes, Maria Lena,
I believe that the Charity Commission is the way to go. I think they will be very, very interested in this.
I believe that the Charity Commission is the way to go. I think they will be very, very interested in this.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: September 24, 2019 06:43AM
Interesting case where the U.K. Charity Commission freezes the bank accounts of a certain charity for dipping into the charitable funds for their own personal benefit....
[hsfnotes.com]
Good to see that the Commission dose actually have some power and do take their role seriously.
Just saying.
[hsfnotes.com]
Good to see that the Commission dose actually have some power and do take their role seriously.
Just saying.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Horowitz
()
Date: September 24, 2019 08:19PM
Exactly, it's way to go to UK Charity commission, because Mooji and his community in MS has built their homes from it there without paying regular taxes. The Mooji Media inc. company transfers the all profit to Mooji foundation/charity every year. The Mooji Media inc. must pay regular taxes like other "normal" people outside....Monte Sahaja project is a non-transparent business....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2019 08:28PM by Horowitz.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2019 08:28PM by Horowitz.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Horowitz
()
Date: September 24, 2019 10:58PM
Mooji foundation for 2018 will be known?:
Next confirmation statement due
09 Dec 2019
Next annual accounts due
30 Sep 2019
[www.duedil.com] (2017)
Next confirmation statement due
09 Dec 2019
Next annual accounts due
30 Sep 2019
[www.duedil.com] (2017)
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Wombat
()
Date: September 25, 2019 01:51AM
Sahara 71 -- I'm not sure your ex cult member is reliable. There are a lot of mistakes in those numbers. I'd tread carefully with their info. First glaring mistake is that India season was 20 days this year (not 25 like in 2017 and no India at all in 2018), and I'd say that the 2000 number is only reached maybe in the last week (if at all!) AND that people definitely do not donate an average of €2 (150 Indian rupees) each per day! That's taking a highly optimistic view of people's generosity ;-) There are loads more mistakes with just about every category, but I'll let you figure the rest out yourself. Also, not all those events happen every year. Spreading false info doesn't help anyone, least of all the credibility of your "source".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2019 01:53AM by Wombat.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2019 01:53AM by Wombat.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 25, 2019 03:04AM
Hi Wombat,
What is your affiliation with Mooji?
How do you come by your information?
What is your affiliation with Mooji?
How do you come by your information?
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Horowitz
()
Date: September 25, 2019 03:50AM
I made the estimation for year 2018 from Satsang fees only:
Intense Satsang –Lisbon-February: €220 x1500 people = €300 000,
Zmar Retreat-Portugal-April: €375 x 850 people = €318 000,
Zmar Retreat-Portugal-October: €375 x 850 people = €318 000,
Monte Sahaja Retreat-June: €550 x 120 people = €66 000,
Netherlands Retreat-August: €330 x 1500 people = €495 000.
Added together, it will be about 1.5M Euros.
It's only the gross incomes for Mooji Media inc. company from satsang fees for year 2018.
I propose to put together the all incomes for year 2018 and compare that with Mooji foundation and Mooji Media inc. online reports at the end of this year 2019.
(minus the expanses, salaries, rent costs, and atc.).
online retreats in average 90-100K euros for each retreats in 2018, it's together 2M Euro + selling Mooji's stuff during retreats....
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2019 04:06AM by Horowitz.
Intense Satsang –Lisbon-February: €220 x1500 people = €300 000,
Zmar Retreat-Portugal-April: €375 x 850 people = €318 000,
Zmar Retreat-Portugal-October: €375 x 850 people = €318 000,
Monte Sahaja Retreat-June: €550 x 120 people = €66 000,
Netherlands Retreat-August: €330 x 1500 people = €495 000.
Added together, it will be about 1.5M Euros.
It's only the gross incomes for Mooji Media inc. company from satsang fees for year 2018.
I propose to put together the all incomes for year 2018 and compare that with Mooji foundation and Mooji Media inc. online reports at the end of this year 2019.
(minus the expanses, salaries, rent costs, and atc.).
online retreats in average 90-100K euros for each retreats in 2018, it's together 2M Euro + selling Mooji's stuff during retreats....
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2019 04:06AM by Horowitz.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Athos
()
Date: September 25, 2019 03:51AM
Maria Lena Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
....................................................
I enclose a screen print with
> payments. The total is € 1944.55. As I noted below
> detailed:
>
> Zmar may 2015 Online Silent Retreat 186,33 €
> Sahaja Express monthly subscription 29,06 € July
> 2015
> Monte Sahaja retreat July 28 190,07 €
> Zmar September 2015 online 183,90 €
> London online November 2015 129,61 €
> 2016 Zmar online May 170,59 €
> First Monte Sahaja online 2016 117,77 €
> Second Monte Sahaja online 2016 117,77 €
> Zmar online September 2016 113,99 €
> Lisbon online April 2017 77,77 €
> Zmar 2017 May online 117,28 €
> Monte Sahaja online July 2017 123,12 €
> Monte Sahaja online August 2017 122,32 €
> 2017 Susc Sahaja Express Dec 23,30 €
> 2018 Susc Sahaja Expres January 23,50 €
> August 2018 Netherlands online 91,67 €
> June 2018 Monte Sahaja online 126,50 €
>
> Waiting for your refund.
> Yours sincerely
Wow, you attended really a lot of retreats.Far more i ever attended.
But I think it's a pity that you didn't take anything positive out of all these retreats.
I mean, my mooji time is over too and i'm currently tired of teachers. But the time was important and I wouldn't mourn the money of the past but just be here and now.
Too bad you didn't learn anything for yourself there.
Then sure it'll feel like a waste of money.
-------------------------------------------------------
....................................................
I enclose a screen print with
> payments. The total is € 1944.55. As I noted below
> detailed:
>
> Zmar may 2015 Online Silent Retreat 186,33 €
> Sahaja Express monthly subscription 29,06 € July
> 2015
> Monte Sahaja retreat July 28 190,07 €
> Zmar September 2015 online 183,90 €
> London online November 2015 129,61 €
> 2016 Zmar online May 170,59 €
> First Monte Sahaja online 2016 117,77 €
> Second Monte Sahaja online 2016 117,77 €
> Zmar online September 2016 113,99 €
> Lisbon online April 2017 77,77 €
> Zmar 2017 May online 117,28 €
> Monte Sahaja online July 2017 123,12 €
> Monte Sahaja online August 2017 122,32 €
> 2017 Susc Sahaja Express Dec 23,30 €
> 2018 Susc Sahaja Expres January 23,50 €
> August 2018 Netherlands online 91,67 €
> June 2018 Monte Sahaja online 126,50 €
>
> Waiting for your refund.
> Yours sincerely
Wow, you attended really a lot of retreats.Far more i ever attended.
But I think it's a pity that you didn't take anything positive out of all these retreats.
I mean, my mooji time is over too and i'm currently tired of teachers. But the time was important and I wouldn't mourn the money of the past but just be here and now.
Too bad you didn't learn anything for yourself there.
Then sure it'll feel like a waste of money.
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