Life as a deployable agent - how not to be empathic
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 10, 2018 12:43AM
Yes, there's information out there on how people are trained to be deployable agents and not be respectful or responsive toward us.
Someone trained as a deployable agent has more stamina than someone not trained as a deployable agent.
A deployable agent is trained to run on a simple program that puts the leader at center of the universe,
A deployable agent suppresses doubt and does not listen respectfully to those disagreeing with the leader or the leader's teachings.
For the trained deployable agent, life is simple, there's increased stamina.
Those not trained remain aware of doubts, and listen to others with respect and give those who disagree the benefit of the doubt.
This takes energy. Confront us with a trained deployable agent and we dont' know this is a deployable agent, its going to be a crazy making encounter.
Some Large Grout Training (LGAT) cults have methods that are the envy of any guru.
Here is an glaring example of how one group (Landmark Education) trains its graduates (aka deployable agents) to ignore us when we say no and refuse to sign up for Landmark 'trainings'.
Anything we say except "yes" is ignored as noise.
Repeat, someone trained as a deployable agent has more stamina than we do because their empathy is suppressed.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 12:54AM by corboy.
Someone trained as a deployable agent has more stamina than someone not trained as a deployable agent.
A deployable agent is trained to run on a simple program that puts the leader at center of the universe,
A deployable agent suppresses doubt and does not listen respectfully to those disagreeing with the leader or the leader's teachings.
For the trained deployable agent, life is simple, there's increased stamina.
Those not trained remain aware of doubts, and listen to others with respect and give those who disagree the benefit of the doubt.
This takes energy. Confront us with a trained deployable agent and we dont' know this is a deployable agent, its going to be a crazy making encounter.
Some Large Grout Training (LGAT) cults have methods that are the envy of any guru.
Here is an glaring example of how one group (Landmark Education) trains its graduates (aka deployable agents) to ignore us when we say no and refuse to sign up for Landmark 'trainings'.
Anything we say except "yes" is ignored as noise.
Repeat, someone trained as a deployable agent has more stamina than we do because their empathy is suppressed.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Quote
(Sumerlin's) boyfriend got further into the organization(Landmark), signing up for the leadership and self-expression program, Sumerlin agreed to attend an introductory course.
"They were just big sales pitches," (Sumerlin) says. "We were whisked away into these back rooms where they try to get you to sign up. If you don't they want to know why. What's so great about your life that you don't want to improve it? Why do you have such a hard time committing to anything?"
"It's like shooting clay pigeons; there was always another question. They just try to wear you down."
At one point, Sumerlin tried to leave - but first she had to get past several hall monitors who kept up the questioning.
"It was before I learned that the only way to handle these people is to just say no," she adds. "Anything else gives them an opening to ask another question. They're trained on how to do it."
In fact, she says, a former volunteer told her how they were taught to desensitize themselves to objections from potential recruits by singing "Old MacDonald Had a Farm" and substituting all the possible objections people might have for the verses: "I'm not signing up because…of money. Ee-I-Ee-I-O.
I'm not signing up because…I don't want to. Ee-I-Ei-I-O."
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 12:54AM by corboy.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: November 10, 2018 04:43AM
Thank you for sharing, Startingover.
That is really bad about the two women being so cold to you and not showing any emotion why you were telling them your personal issues. How can they claim to be spiritual? How can they claim that Advaita is all about divine love? Or whatever is is supposed to be about.... It's very vague.
But in a truly spiritual community, people would never behave that way! Of course they would not.
It reminds me of when I first became suspicious of Moo. I went on the Mooji Sangha Facebook page -the official one. I asked questions about Advaita and other things... Well, my questions were shut down in a harsh way, it was very blunt. People repeatedly wanted to shut me down by saying "you are in your mind", in a way that makes it sound like "you are not as evolved as us and don't ask questions".
Of course I became even more suspicious....
I said but "you must also be in your mind in order to make a judgement that I am in my mind". I mean seriously, they were judging me. It wasn't very Christian of them!
That is when I knew beyond doubt that that Moo group were not spiritual people at all, they were harsh and judgemental people who could not discuss anything.
It wasn't just the one time I went on that Facebook page, either. I went on it heaps of times to confirm my hypothesis. I also had my friends read the answers I was receiving. (It's a public page) My friends were like "f***, these people are seriously weird."
They are not normal people. They are cray-cray.
I challenge anyone reading this, if you are on Facebook, to fully investigate that page and make your own conclusions.
So all this tallies up with what you are describing to us, Startingover.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 04:45AM by Sahara71.
That is really bad about the two women being so cold to you and not showing any emotion why you were telling them your personal issues. How can they claim to be spiritual? How can they claim that Advaita is all about divine love? Or whatever is is supposed to be about.... It's very vague.
But in a truly spiritual community, people would never behave that way! Of course they would not.
It reminds me of when I first became suspicious of Moo. I went on the Mooji Sangha Facebook page -the official one. I asked questions about Advaita and other things... Well, my questions were shut down in a harsh way, it was very blunt. People repeatedly wanted to shut me down by saying "you are in your mind", in a way that makes it sound like "you are not as evolved as us and don't ask questions".
Of course I became even more suspicious....
I said but "you must also be in your mind in order to make a judgement that I am in my mind". I mean seriously, they were judging me. It wasn't very Christian of them!
That is when I knew beyond doubt that that Moo group were not spiritual people at all, they were harsh and judgemental people who could not discuss anything.
It wasn't just the one time I went on that Facebook page, either. I went on it heaps of times to confirm my hypothesis. I also had my friends read the answers I was receiving. (It's a public page) My friends were like "f***, these people are seriously weird."
They are not normal people. They are cray-cray.
I challenge anyone reading this, if you are on Facebook, to fully investigate that page and make your own conclusions.
So all this tallies up with what you are describing to us, Startingover.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 04:45AM by Sahara71.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
happytown
()
Date: November 10, 2018 05:40AM
A link to the Spiritual Abuse Resources website. And an article about the conversion process in high demand groups:
"In some cultic groups it is not unusual for a person to go through the following stages:
1. Prospective converts perceive the leader as having some special ability or charisma (he reads minds; he heals people; he induces altered states of consciousness in people) that triggers a powerful inner experience (e.g., of the leader's spiritual "presence"), which in turn causes them to reconsider their assumptions about the world, self, and others.
2. The leader’s minions, who become aware of prospects' openness to their belief system, will, frequently with much genuine concern and sincerity, do what they can to ensure that prospects make the “correct” interpretation of those experiences.
3.Prospects come to accept, at least provisionally, the fundamental assumptions, what I have sometimes called the “ruling propositions” on which the group is based—e.g., guru is God incarnate, Pastor Bob is a modern-day prophet, Sister Veronica is God’s messenger. The leader and/or group thus come to have a high level of credibility and authority for the prospect.
4. Prospects yield to group pressures, whether they be mild or strong, and reach a point at which they implicitly if not explicitly declare, “I believe!” The initial declaration is usually directed at the ruling propositions, e.g., "guru is God incarnate." Prospects are now converts.
5. Converts rearrange their peripheral beliefs and behaviors to make them more consistent with the new set of assumptions. Again, these actions frequently are accompanied by varying degrees of social guidance and/or pressure. For example, accepting that "guru is God" implies obeying guru, even if his orders make no sense ("Who am I to question God?").
6. Converts become comfortable with the new set of beliefs and behaviors and begin to live according to them.
7. Other group members, sometimes without realizing it, provide rewards and punishments that tend to strengthen new converts' loyalty to the group.
8. Converts become aware of inconsistencies, contradictions, abuses, or failed predictions within the group or organization.
9. Normal cognitive dissonance processes combined with group pressures cause the member to search for rationalizations to explain away these disturbing discrepancies."
[www.spiritualabuseresources.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 05:42AM by happytown.
"In some cultic groups it is not unusual for a person to go through the following stages:
1. Prospective converts perceive the leader as having some special ability or charisma (he reads minds; he heals people; he induces altered states of consciousness in people) that triggers a powerful inner experience (e.g., of the leader's spiritual "presence"), which in turn causes them to reconsider their assumptions about the world, self, and others.
2. The leader’s minions, who become aware of prospects' openness to their belief system, will, frequently with much genuine concern and sincerity, do what they can to ensure that prospects make the “correct” interpretation of those experiences.
3.Prospects come to accept, at least provisionally, the fundamental assumptions, what I have sometimes called the “ruling propositions” on which the group is based—e.g., guru is God incarnate, Pastor Bob is a modern-day prophet, Sister Veronica is God’s messenger. The leader and/or group thus come to have a high level of credibility and authority for the prospect.
4. Prospects yield to group pressures, whether they be mild or strong, and reach a point at which they implicitly if not explicitly declare, “I believe!” The initial declaration is usually directed at the ruling propositions, e.g., "guru is God incarnate." Prospects are now converts.
5. Converts rearrange their peripheral beliefs and behaviors to make them more consistent with the new set of assumptions. Again, these actions frequently are accompanied by varying degrees of social guidance and/or pressure. For example, accepting that "guru is God" implies obeying guru, even if his orders make no sense ("Who am I to question God?").
6. Converts become comfortable with the new set of beliefs and behaviors and begin to live according to them.
7. Other group members, sometimes without realizing it, provide rewards and punishments that tend to strengthen new converts' loyalty to the group.
8. Converts become aware of inconsistencies, contradictions, abuses, or failed predictions within the group or organization.
9. Normal cognitive dissonance processes combined with group pressures cause the member to search for rationalizations to explain away these disturbing discrepancies."
[www.spiritualabuseresources.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 05:42AM by happytown.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
happytown
()
Date: November 10, 2018 06:01AM
This post from page 37, which seems to have been written by a computer algorithm with the search terms "Mooji cult", is getting a lot of attention on the chi-ting apocalypse page.
[m.facebook.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 06:02AM by happytown.
[m.facebook.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 06:02AM by happytown.
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
happytown
()
Date: November 10, 2018 08:06AM
It seems it was actually bringinthecat's post that caused all the trolls to appear, Perhaps this deserves its own thread:
Date: March 30, 2018 05:59AM
I went to mooji's ashram in 2014 for a few months. I was doing seva there on their building projects, building a new temple. I had a good time and got a lot out of it.
reading all this had brought back a memory that I feel I should share though, because it bothers me in retrospect. About the woman referenced as mooji's ex. We were gathered for one of the many spontaneous satsangs that take place there. About one hundred people were there I guess. It was a different feel, like something bad had happened. It was about some disgruntled student who had written an angry letter. It felt a bit uncomfortable, but the general vibe was that the student had got it wrong. It was about getting people's opinions on what had happened. It had a sort of tribunal feel, but whoever wrote the letter wasn't there.
towards the end, this woman identified as mooji's ex on this website got up and started shouting at him. It was awkward and sudden. She was very upset. I recall Mooji wafting his hand at her and saying "you were too attached".
anyway it's on tape and there were about one hundred people there I am sure. I remember at the time thinking that people are going through things in this ashram environment, and it can be very challenging. And of course mooji was a sage and not to be mistaken with a regular guy.
But four years on, and now especially with this #metoo movement always in the news, I had to reassess and speak up, albeit anonymously. In what other area would a sixty year old man leaving his partner for a much younger woman be accepted as being for her own good because she was too attached? It's ludricous. It'S weird how it seemed acceptable.
I know this is all hearsay, but as I said, it was all recorded in front of many witnesses.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 08:36AM by happytown.
Date: March 30, 2018 05:59AM
I went to mooji's ashram in 2014 for a few months. I was doing seva there on their building projects, building a new temple. I had a good time and got a lot out of it.
reading all this had brought back a memory that I feel I should share though, because it bothers me in retrospect. About the woman referenced as mooji's ex. We were gathered for one of the many spontaneous satsangs that take place there. About one hundred people were there I guess. It was a different feel, like something bad had happened. It was about some disgruntled student who had written an angry letter. It felt a bit uncomfortable, but the general vibe was that the student had got it wrong. It was about getting people's opinions on what had happened. It had a sort of tribunal feel, but whoever wrote the letter wasn't there.
towards the end, this woman identified as mooji's ex on this website got up and started shouting at him. It was awkward and sudden. She was very upset. I recall Mooji wafting his hand at her and saying "you were too attached".
anyway it's on tape and there were about one hundred people there I am sure. I remember at the time thinking that people are going through things in this ashram environment, and it can be very challenging. And of course mooji was a sage and not to be mistaken with a regular guy.
But four years on, and now especially with this #metoo movement always in the news, I had to reassess and speak up, albeit anonymously. In what other area would a sixty year old man leaving his partner for a much younger woman be accepted as being for her own good because she was too attached? It's ludricous. It'S weird how it seemed acceptable.
I know this is all hearsay, but as I said, it was all recorded in front of many witnesses.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 08:36AM by happytown.
cult cult cult
Posted by:
Constantin
()
Date: November 10, 2018 07:05PM
sahara71 thanks ...
so far i will stay my ground, no pun intended, and do not know much about finances here enough. but if it is a registered business, then it would be fake to call it a ashram. And it is obvious that the inner circle has no money trouble.
Backlash is about being kicked out and losing all the friends.
Being shamed and financial loss. Also knowing that all these people would banish me with out going into a proper dialog.
Horowitz- yes a sahaja resistance or free monte would be wise and at this stage it is a good idea.
then about sudden anger and cold hearted-ness---
yes I have seen that a number of times from Mooo and lakshmi and also krinabai.
Also Omkara can get bitchy when protecting the moo. Then Sanooja used to be very sweet and now yes colder and colder.
corboy- yes they have copy of all our passports.
c
corboy
so far i will stay my ground, no pun intended, and do not know much about finances here enough. but if it is a registered business, then it would be fake to call it a ashram. And it is obvious that the inner circle has no money trouble.
Backlash is about being kicked out and losing all the friends.
Being shamed and financial loss. Also knowing that all these people would banish me with out going into a proper dialog.
Horowitz- yes a sahaja resistance or free monte would be wise and at this stage it is a good idea.
then about sudden anger and cold hearted-ness---
yes I have seen that a number of times from Mooo and lakshmi and also krinabai.
Also Omkara can get bitchy when protecting the moo. Then Sanooja used to be very sweet and now yes colder and colder.
corboy- yes they have copy of all our passports.
c
corboy
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Constantin
()
Date: November 10, 2018 07:06PM
and starting over yes we could pm ....
Recipe For Fear Amid the Bliss - Banishment & Unfriending
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 10, 2018 11:03PM
So this is a recipe for fear amid the bliss.
Knowing that if you disagree or dissent or fail to please, you will be unfriended and shat out of Monte Sahaja.
Does Constantin or anyone have a guess how many persons have been kicked
out of Monte Sahaja?
Knowing this can be done to you is the recipe for creating the based attachment Alexandra Stein tells us is characteristic of a totalist, cultic relationship.
What Constantin has just told us:
"Backlash is about being kicked out and losing all the friends.
Being shamed and financial loss.
Also knowing that all these people would banish me with out going into a proper dialog."
Friends, this is very heavy shit.
You are kicked out of Monte Sahaja.
You've been shamed to forget that YOUR seva service, your money, your laughter and your adoration BUILT Monte Sahaja.
You've been shamed to forget that YOU gave Moo your love and benefit of the doubt.
YOu've been shocked and shamed to forget that Moo is not giving you that same love nor giving you that same benefit of the doubt.
How do you pull yourself together to get out of Portugal after you've been savaged this way?
What if you have minor children who were ejected along with you? They are going to be freaked out. How do you pull yourself together to parent them?
What if, prior to you meeting Moo and feeling cured, you were depressed or you had a chemical addiction or an eating disorder? After traumatic ejection from Monte Sahaja and losing your Moo friends, you're in great danger of relapse.
How do you pull yourself together to find lodgings back in your home country, unless you are very lucky and have NOT burned your bridges to outside friends and family as many Moo disciples are reported to have done?
After being traumatically rejected that way, you're in shock.
Unless you are from a nation that has superb social service safety net to help you survive and get on your feet, without such a safety net, how, in your shattered state, do you pull yourself together to find lodgings, do job interviews and then function at work?
Knowing that if you disagree or dissent or fail to please, you will be unfriended and shat out of Monte Sahaja.
Does Constantin or anyone have a guess how many persons have been kicked
out of Monte Sahaja?
Knowing this can be done to you is the recipe for creating the based attachment Alexandra Stein tells us is characteristic of a totalist, cultic relationship.
What Constantin has just told us:
"Backlash is about being kicked out and losing all the friends.
Being shamed and financial loss.
Also knowing that all these people would banish me with out going into a proper dialog."
Friends, this is very heavy shit.
You are kicked out of Monte Sahaja.
You've been shamed to forget that YOUR seva service, your money, your laughter and your adoration BUILT Monte Sahaja.
You've been shamed to forget that YOU gave Moo your love and benefit of the doubt.
YOu've been shocked and shamed to forget that Moo is not giving you that same love nor giving you that same benefit of the doubt.
How do you pull yourself together to get out of Portugal after you've been savaged this way?
What if you have minor children who were ejected along with you? They are going to be freaked out. How do you pull yourself together to parent them?
What if, prior to you meeting Moo and feeling cured, you were depressed or you had a chemical addiction or an eating disorder? After traumatic ejection from Monte Sahaja and losing your Moo friends, you're in great danger of relapse.
How do you pull yourself together to find lodgings back in your home country, unless you are very lucky and have NOT burned your bridges to outside friends and family as many Moo disciples are reported to have done?
After being traumatically rejected that way, you're in shock.
Unless you are from a nation that has superb social service safety net to help you survive and get on your feet, without such a safety net, how, in your shattered state, do you pull yourself together to find lodgings, do job interviews and then function at work?
Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by:
Sahara71
()
Date: November 11, 2018 07:37AM
Hi Constantin,
It seems that I incorrectly told you that the ashram at Monte Sahaja is a business... it is actually a registered charity, with close tires to the UK registered Mooji Foundation, which is also also a charity.
So, we have an interesting three-in-one so-called 'charitable' organisation:
1. The Mooji Foundation- registered under it's current name since 2011. Registered Charity number: 1144016
2. Associacao Mooji Sangha -this is the ashram in Portugal. It is also a charity, but it is financially and otherwise supported by the Mooji Foundation. So funds are shunted from the 1st charity to the 2nd charity. Asociacao Mooji Sangha is decribed officially as a 'project' of the Moo Foundation.
3. Mooji Media LTD - this is the business side of things. It seems to run on mostly volunteer labor, but officially claims to have 5 to 7 employees.
Check out this website to view the statements filed by the supposedly legal Moo Foundation.
[beta.charitycommission.gov.uk]
The most interesting thing I have found out so far is that Tony Moo-Young is actually an employee of the Moo Foundation, earning 24,205 pounds per year. (This is around $31,400 U.S. dollars.) See page 26 of the last statement posted by the Moo people on the above website - the statement from December 2017.
Moo being only an employee may indicate that he doesn't really have much power in the organisation, although of course they are reliant on him to keep on parroting the ridiculous bullsh*t he goes on with.
Also of note is this woman: Rhonda Lee Johnson.
Johnson seems to have a lot of power within the Moo group. She is a Canadian woman in her mid 60's. Johnson serves on the board of trustees of The Mooji Foundation, she is also on the board of directors of the Associacao Mooji Sangha and is one of the managers of Mooji Media LTD. She seems to be the only person who is active across all three groups.
[beta.companieshouse.gov.uk]
Constantin, if you can provide us with any information about the dealings of this woman, Rhonda Johnson, it would be very revealing, I think.
The other important thing I have discovered is how to make an official complaint against the Moo group. Charities in the U.K. are governed by the Charity Commission, which reports directly to the U.K. parliament. You can make an official complaint about the conduct of a charity online here:
[forms.charitycommission.gov.uk]
It's very interesting that the Moo Cult Compound (offcially called the Associacao Mooji Sangha ashram) states as it's aim:
"The promotion of moral and spiritual welfare for the public benefit."
What a joke! All that I am seeing is reports of blatant disregard for devotees' welfare. People are being publicly shamed and mocked, they are being yelled at and abused, ignored when in obvious distress, used for free labor, then thrown out and cut off when they are no longer of use. They are also being exploited to donate money. People are suffering psychologically due to the actions of this group.
It seems that I incorrectly told you that the ashram at Monte Sahaja is a business... it is actually a registered charity, with close tires to the UK registered Mooji Foundation, which is also also a charity.
So, we have an interesting three-in-one so-called 'charitable' organisation:
1. The Mooji Foundation- registered under it's current name since 2011. Registered Charity number: 1144016
2. Associacao Mooji Sangha -this is the ashram in Portugal. It is also a charity, but it is financially and otherwise supported by the Mooji Foundation. So funds are shunted from the 1st charity to the 2nd charity. Asociacao Mooji Sangha is decribed officially as a 'project' of the Moo Foundation.
3. Mooji Media LTD - this is the business side of things. It seems to run on mostly volunteer labor, but officially claims to have 5 to 7 employees.
Check out this website to view the statements filed by the supposedly legal Moo Foundation.
[beta.charitycommission.gov.uk]
The most interesting thing I have found out so far is that Tony Moo-Young is actually an employee of the Moo Foundation, earning 24,205 pounds per year. (This is around $31,400 U.S. dollars.) See page 26 of the last statement posted by the Moo people on the above website - the statement from December 2017.
Moo being only an employee may indicate that he doesn't really have much power in the organisation, although of course they are reliant on him to keep on parroting the ridiculous bullsh*t he goes on with.
Also of note is this woman: Rhonda Lee Johnson.
Johnson seems to have a lot of power within the Moo group. She is a Canadian woman in her mid 60's. Johnson serves on the board of trustees of The Mooji Foundation, she is also on the board of directors of the Associacao Mooji Sangha and is one of the managers of Mooji Media LTD. She seems to be the only person who is active across all three groups.
[beta.companieshouse.gov.uk]
Constantin, if you can provide us with any information about the dealings of this woman, Rhonda Johnson, it would be very revealing, I think.
The other important thing I have discovered is how to make an official complaint against the Moo group. Charities in the U.K. are governed by the Charity Commission, which reports directly to the U.K. parliament. You can make an official complaint about the conduct of a charity online here:
[forms.charitycommission.gov.uk]
It's very interesting that the Moo Cult Compound (offcially called the Associacao Mooji Sangha ashram) states as it's aim:
"The promotion of moral and spiritual welfare for the public benefit."
What a joke! All that I am seeing is reports of blatant disregard for devotees' welfare. People are being publicly shamed and mocked, they are being yelled at and abused, ignored when in obvious distress, used for free labor, then thrown out and cut off when they are no longer of use. They are also being exploited to donate money. People are suffering psychologically due to the actions of this group.
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