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Re: Mooji a cult?
Date: September 10, 2020 02:36AM

Does anyone here speak German?
It'd be great to have a translation of this in English:
[www.youtube.com]

It's from a talk by Karl Renz.
Karl has spoken out against Mooji in a few of his books and talks.
The video title is "What do you have against Mooji?"

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 10, 2020 04:36AM

Read the Renz stuff with caution.

Renz is yet another neo advisors guru.
Will
I found some stuff written about Renz and *his* satsangs...written on Timothy Conway's website.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2020 04:38AM by corboy.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: stefa ()
Date: September 10, 2020 05:51AM

Namaste Namdev, it's been a while since we last communicated before you stopped abruptly. You use to tell me that Guruji was the only one who could give you an experience of the self. We also discussed about his "strange" and "erratic" behaviors which makes one doubt whether he was really an enlightened master who is loving and compassionate. Wherever you are now, please have a read at a dialogue below which will confirm your doubts. Love will find a way, whatever you experience now is definitely not Love. That's why the mind is still rising for many in Sahaja, and the "Master" is using that as a means to retain people like a drug lord. Nath's hunch was right, invitation is a bullshit that we have been trying to sell to the world as if it were gold. Should listen to Sidd, should act now that the covid19 has weakened his position. The equipment is ready for use. Be a light unto yourself.


"Q: It is clear that vasanas are not destroyed during sleep. Are they destroyed by nirvikalpa samadhi, or does this state have no effect on them?

AS: Bhagavan taught that we should aim for sahaja samadhi, not nirvikalpa samadhi. He said that it was not necessary to experience nirvikalpa samadhi prior to enjoying sahaja samadhi.
One form of nirvikalpa samadhi is like laya, like deep sleep.
There is peace while the samadhi persists, but when the experience is over the mind rises and the vasanas become just as active as before.

Laya [temporary suspension of all mental faculties in a trancelike state] is virtually the same as sleep. Experiencing this state is not helpful to your sadhana.

Laya is not meditation, it is unconsciousness; it is tamo guna in a very strong form. Meditation needs an awake mind, not an unconscious one.

Sleep and laya increase the identification with the mind. You may feel a little peace during laya, but when you wake up from this state the mind becomes very active again and the peace is all lost."

p. 345 CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: shamrock ()
Date: September 10, 2020 10:13AM

too many suicides Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's from a talk by Karl Renz.
> Karl has spoken out against Mooji in a few of his
> books and talks.
> The video title is "What do you have against
> Mooji?"


According to Chi Ting Apocalypse, Karl’s beef is that Mooji stole all his customers:

“Karl Renz has been sighted skulking around Tiru. Karl has been going through a prolonged mid life crisis after Mooji stole all of his punters”

[m.facebook.com]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 10, 2020 09:37PM

Corboy opinion: Tiru is full of neo advaita gurus competing for customers.

If one of them falters, the others want to grab his (or her) bereft disciples.

It is a game of chess. The only way to win is for a disciple to recognize he or she is part of a larger game that has nothing to do with spirituality and step off of the guru chessboard entirely.

Here is a discussion of Renz made some years ago.

[www.enlightened-spirituality.org]

Quote

Isolated from its Eastern religious and historical context and taught as a quick-fix, no-frills contemporary path to spiritual enlightenment, [Neo-Advaita's] tendency [is] to ignore traditional values like ethics and the cultivation of personal integrity. What’s more, it doesn’t give much credence to the values of the Western Enlightenment, either. Rationality, critical analysis, and common sense all take a back seat in its mind-transcending philosophy."

-------

Critique of prominent Neo-Advaita teacher Karl Renz:

[Around 2005, a very wise, sincere and spiritually sensible young American, "J," with his wife attended a few gatherings around German neo-Advaita teacher Karl Renz, while the latter was, like many neo-advaitins, conducting a series of meetings near Ramanashramam in Tiruvannamalai, South India. Ramanashramam is the ashram that arose in the 1920s around famous sage Ramana Mahârshi, and thus this vicinity is the perfect place for neo-advaitins wanting to lure new recruits. "J" confronted Karl on the limited nature of his (Karl's) views and teaching style. Here below is the concerned and "care-full" message that J sent me about this encounter. (I subsequently spent several hours with "J" on a visit to his parents home and can vouch for his character.) Note that, in the following text sent by J, all boldfacing, italics and bracketed remarks [] are by myself. --Timothy]


Dear One Timothy,

Regarding Karl Renz…

Before I begin, I would like to point out that I am not on some vengeance mission here… I don’t have it out for this man. I am sincerely concerned about the direction in which these precious teachings of the advaita non-dual traditions are being represented by immature teachers in the west, and what impact it may have on the generations of would-be aspirants in the future. Knowing what I know, I feel it is my responsibility to speak openly on these matters. I am focusing here on Karl because of his growing popularity, and the disquieting way in which I see him creating confusion around the teachings of authentic advaita vedanta, as represented by the great masters.

The fact of the matter is, I have associated with many of these neo-advaitin teachers, and am well aware of the now common trend to teach before being fully “ripe,” or having stabilized in a state of sahaja samadhi [the Natural Oneness of authentic, irreversible spiritual liberation]. I do not hold such expectations of every teacher out there who is willing to point the way, and help guide others. I am grateful for those, who with some understanding or illumination, give of their time and energy to serve as a spiritual guide. I have benefited immensely from such teachings, and they have served as a wonderful introduction, platform for further inquiry, and reminder to awaken from a state of slumber. Yet, for those who assume authority without having received it from a genuine source, or speak from a position of not having realized the ultimate understanding, I am most concerned for the possible abuse of power and distortion of truth.

Thus, having said that…

I have been going through a lot of material available on the web, which includes videos and transcripts of his dialogues, in the attempt to get a clearer idea of what it is about Karl Renz’s satsangs that trouble me. (I am being "affected"… oh, no! People will think I’m "unenlightened"! [NOTE from Timothy: in this remark, "J" is being humorously ironic].)

And Timothy, I deeply appreciate your article on the matter of common pitfalls of neo-advaitin teachers, as the ten point system you have presented, which has given me a very useful framework to organize my thoughts with. I agree with you that point #10 is most apparent in this case; that Karl is stuck in the deconstruction phase, fixated on “neti-neti” ['Not this, not this'], and abides in a nihilistic understanding of the absolute. Yet, as I read through your point system, numbers 1,2,4,5,6,and 9 are also very relevant to the flaws I see in Karl’s teaching[...]. I could go into more detail about each of these points in relation to Karl’s teaching, but I hope that what I have to report here will make it apparent enough.

What has become more clear to me in sifting through all this available documentation (and I must admit, I have not read his book… but then, such a pre-meditated offering would not be so representative of his teaching methods) is that Karl seems to be acting out of a concept of what the “Absolute” means, which is more akin to a state of nihilistic no-thingness, and to which makes all phenomenal existence valueless and meaningless (which ultimately, it is beyond value or meaning, but also not without value or meaning…like you reiterated with the two truths of absolute/relative, or the Zen saying “nothing matters, yet everything matters.”).

Moreover, he states that there is nothing to be done to realize that absolute state, as you are already realized in your Self, and there is no changing that fact, whatever you do. Again, mostly true, but not entirely true. He basically nullifies all necessity to seek, practice, study, etc, which is a major aspect to overlook. Essentially, he makes a mockery of the spiritual path, and the desire to awaken, and this alarms me.

[NOTE from Timothy: see my point-by-point critique of the identical "utterly-nothing-to-be-done" view promoted by neo-advaitin Ramesh Balsekar, a view that utterly neglects those many, many teachings from our sagely teacher, Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj, on the need for great "earnestness" in meditation on either the vital, animating Power or the beingness-consciousness-"I-Am-ness," and also for "zestfully doing one's duty" and "compassionately caring for others."]

For the rest of this critique of Karl Renz, go here:

[www.enlightened-spirituality.org]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: September 11, 2020 01:50AM

I only speak a little German and the audio quality is horrendous, but this is what I think I could make out in the first minute:

Renz: Er verspricht viel aber kann es nicht halten.
Audience member: Aber[?] dann, Ramana und Nisargadatta...
Renz: Ramana hat nie etwas versprochen.

Translation:
Renz: He promises a lot but can't keep his promises.
Audience member: But then, Ramana and Nisargadatta...
Renz: Ramana never promised anything.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: stefa ()
Date: September 11, 2020 06:33PM

Guys, let's go back to the moon with the cow...

Found a posting in guru ratings by lore (26 June 2020)

"Dear GR,
MR Anthony Mooyoung (MOOJI) should be at (0)
As a big Fake, he only serves himself. I had followed him for 4 years. Over that time he became
SRi Moojibaba from a simple crook that could give the illusion that he had something, to a big spiritual star theater, with millions in the bank.
When Covid-19 came out he did not react and went on with his program.
Then, when borders started to close he chose to isolate himself. Only speaking via computer. While nobody had jobs and was living the worst life they could remember, he still charged money for his advice while many other were giving financial breaks to people.
He kept his head down and stayed silent while the world went into lock down. As a leader he failed to speak about the pressing matters. Human rights etc. Now, you might say: so what? Well for a guy who talks about NOT being the body in his preaching he is suddenly very afraid of death.
The ashram got shut down and an group of power hungry zealots and sickos
took over the ashram. Purging and throwing out any unwanted people.
And for many weeks nothing. Then they killed a black guy in the US, and suddenly he was there again speaking. It plain to see he is attached to being a guru and his body and being black, all of this means he is by NO means a true guru who has gone beyond body and all attachments. This rich fat, ego centric
man has a lot of secretes that we will find out about sooner or later. For example the growing list of deaths around his so called satsangs and ashrams. To be awakened means you let go of power, money and fame, because you see it means nothing. The fat Moo will not know this and defend himself like the criminal he is."

You see, lore does not know that the cow has t2dm, which can be the cause of other conditions, and contracting covid19 may be deadly, hence the hysteria to isolate, lockdown, nobody goes in or out...and not forgetting those who are redundant or he suspects of plotting against him gets kicked out before the locust swamp.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2020 07:01PM by stefa.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: stefa ()
Date: September 11, 2020 06:37PM

namaste, another posting in guru ratings from Jael (3 Aug 2020)

"His writings and speeches sound like word salad. Meant to confuse you so you feel that you just don’t “get it” and those that do “get it”? Are totally codependent. Wow. I hate gurus who hold court and act like they have all the answers (which is all of them). Only YOU have the answers you need. Nobody else. To think they do, is a disservice to yourself."

And yes, the confusion is the initial stage of brainwashing to become a cow, so that you can imagine jumping over the moon. Truth is, the individual, the experiencer, has to die before the Divine shines forth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2020 07:05PM by stefa.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: stefa ()
Date: September 11, 2020 06:42PM

Another posting in guru rating by Daniel (9 Sep 2020)

"My only true complaint is his deception and fake humility. He sits there in his skirt saying “who am I? where am I? for you see blah blah” but what HE doesn’t tell you is that he charges 1000 euros each person for his satsungs, where up to 800+ people attend at a time. He owns hectares of land and even owns his own ashram in India. For such a spiritual “I’less” person, HE sure loves those rupies/dollars. From what I’ve witnessed he’s done nothing but mix good Buddhist ideologies into his own weaving of word salad and spiritual woo."

Interesting to note that he owns ashram in Indian. Tiru? Anybody has any idea?
Time to check with contacts in Tiru? The ego will always desire to be immortalised as god...dog?

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: stefa ()
Date: September 11, 2020 06:55PM

This is also from guru ratings...as usual trolls hoping to mitigate damage.

Elsa (2 July 2020)
"Let the people who got out of darkness speak out. If someone is not ready to be enlightened, it definitely is difficult to understand his teachings. That’s the reason some leave and back upon their readiness. As far as $$$ I have no clue how much and what it is used for, however, our focus primarily should be on the people who have and will be free of ego and darkness. Only becoming one with God / self liberate us from suffering. No medicine, $$$ …"

Am (6 Aug 2020)
"The Universe is a mirror, so every teacher will simply become the projection of your unhealed issues. They hold light and so in the light it casts a shadow and you see your reflection and your unhealed issues. Most teachers of meditation want you to transcend it. In my experience you must face it and feel it and it will dissolve, you won’t be able enjoy your Guru or TeacherPeople until you understand this principle. The guru or teacher plays their role perfectly for your growth. Everyone is your Guru, EVERYONE, but a Guru can fast track you."

...is not suprising for it is already said "a blind leads a blind, both will fall into the pit".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2020 07:16PM by stefa.

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