Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Horowitz ()
Date: May 21, 2019 12:34AM

Lisa Cairns, a spiritual teacher speaks critically of Moooji’s sexual behaves at 57:00 in Do you need a Guru? Non-duality: []
The entire video is good, her first-hand experience about cults and gurus.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: May 21, 2019 03:22PM

I watched a few minutes of the Lisa Cairns video and she seems nice and authentic, but she may be spreading misconceptions without realizing it.

She says everything is a projection of the mind. I don't know if she means it that way, but many people will take that to mean that everything is a projection of the individual's mind. That's a dangerously misguided view, called 'solipsism'. To my (limited) understanding, the Advaita view is more like this: everything, including the individual mind, is a projection of the universal mind (Isvara). All appearance (i.e. Isvara as well as the individual) are a reflection of pure awareness/existence, so in that sense the universe and individual are identical but the former isn't a projection of the latter.

Another misconception she seems to propagate is a misunderstanding of what enlightenment is. One can have an awakening experience and know for sure at a mental level from then on that one's true self is pure awareness/existence. That's not yet enlightenment. There usually are still so many mental, emotional and behavioral habits that are based on and perpetuate the sense of being the individual that their even after the awakening, people perveive and interact in predominantly selfish.

With the awakening experience comes an initial feeling of having crossed the finish line. That's why many people, especially narcissistic ones, will then believe they are qualified teachers. In reality they are like seeds that have only just sprouted, teaching others how to be a tree.

Here's a relevant quote from the book "Guru? The story of Heather" (Appendix 4)


Many, and likely most, excellent teachers, have followed the three steps of “Learn
and Practice,” “Awaken,” and then “Go deeper, and abate the power of the
vasanas and samskaras before teaching.” These are those who are truly worthy
sharers of what really can’t be put perfectly into any words.
Except… As with almost everything else, there are exceptions.
The outstanding example of an exception is The Buddha. He went out of order.
He had worked intensively on his Vasanas and Samskaras before he
“Awakened,” so for him Awakening and Enlightenment were basically
synonymous, at least in time.
His example, fantastic though it was, has confused things for many for the last
2500 years.
For perhaps everyone except the Buddha, Enlightenment is not an immediate by-
product of (an) Awakening. For most persons, it takes at least five to ten years of
“Abiding” in the Awakening(s), of working on (letting go of) the power of
lurking vasanas and samskaras, before the person is ready to “teach.” However,
(again, partly due to the synonymous nature of the Buddha’s Awakening and
Enlightenment) this fact has been lost on many, including some who should
have, and likely actually did, know much better.
This three-step model, to repeat, is not exact. To take three of the most significant
spiritual personages in the modern consciousness as examples,
--Ramana Maharishi did barely any training before Awakening (though he spent
years of what could be called “spiritual processing” on and around the holy
mountain Arunachala after that before he became a renowned teacher).
--The Buddha, to say it again, was rare in that for him Awakening and
Enlightenment (defined here as the ability to teach as a true sage) came at
virtually the same moment.
-- Jesus, meanwhile, is a mystery. He had to have Awakened at some point, but
for many years of his life we have no record at all. During those “lost years” he
might have been living in the desert with the Essenes, have gone to India, or
been taken by aliens to Sigma Alpha Picardo. Nobody knows. A good guess is
that for at least part of those years he was dealing with what the Advaita and
Hindu folks would call his vasanas and samskaras, but there is only
circumstantial evidence for even that. All we know is that his official “ministry”
began around the age of thirty. He seems to fit the three-step model, but..?
Among other teachers, in recent times Mooji took years alone after Awakening
before he began to share. Pre-WWII in the twentieth century Krishnamurti
suffered through massive headaches as he processed all that to which he had
Awakened. In the late 19th century the great Swami Vivekananda met his master,
Ramakrishna, and despite being a rare being who was Awakened very quickly,
still spent years walking around India, radiating in the Truth, before deciding,
fatefully, to journey to the World Parliament of Religions in Chicago.
The examples go on and on, each with their own variations but with each “real” teacher, all three pieces being there.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: May 21, 2019 06:19PM

After rereading the quote about the difference between awakening and enlightenment from the previous post, I see the need to add that the writer was obviously mistaken about Mooji. Everything mentioned about Mooji in this thread indicates that Mooji may have had an awakening but is definitely not enlightened.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: May 26, 2019 06:11AM

I've just watched part of the Lisa Cairns video that was shared by Horowitz above.
Wow. From 57.00 to 1.06.00 she talks about Mooji and then about cult mentality in general and cultic abuse. []

I think the way Lisa portrays Moo's sexual relationships with his followers from an insightful psychological perspective is worthwhile considering. To paraphrase what Lisa is saying- you have to take into account that young women who end up in neo-advaita ashrams are quite possibly women who have already been traumatized in their lives... often, but not always, by sexual abuse of some kind.

The same young women end up having sex with Mooji, not because they especially want to, but because they are psychologically numb from trauma and don't know how to reject his advances. Mooji is likely to be entirely oblivious to all this. For him, its just a natural thing to do- he wouldn't even consider the damage he is doing to these women (and probably wouldn't care).

You can see that Lisa Cairns is visibly upset after she says all this. I would absolutely not be surprised if she has experienced something similar in her life or at least knows someone who has. (Just my own analysis here- feel free to disagree with me!)

I'm including two comments from Youtube subscribers from below Lisa's video:
The first comment is from "Anna" - we have heard from her before, in fact, I have shared her comments before. She is a woman who claims Mooji made sexual advances towards her. You can get an idea of the state of mind she is in from reading her recent comment:

Anna 4 days ago
after attending "satsang intensive"in London with mooji I went totally crazy, lost my job, and was living a little on the street totally scared(he told me I can trust him, even though so many don't trust him, he can asure me he is worth of trust). Even though it happened in 2013 every time his face came back to me in flashbacks I feel true hate. In internet I find out one of his worshiper told she is in more intimate relationship than a friends with mooji, said it a girl which is 50 years younger than he is. He is the most dangerous man I ever met. Be careful with that one, do not listen him, he is getting into your mind and mess with you, later you do not know what is going on, you are totally lost, everyone around you see and know you have been brainwashed. You feel lonely and one step from suicide and who is there who can get you out from this mental - insane state, of course someone who mess with you on the first place - you may think, and then you are finding out the insanity can go deeper, and deeper, until you know the only way out of insanity that mooji is creating is to cut yourself off mooji. He is really dangerous, do not listen to him. Where there is no mooji there is quietness and sanity and rest.

The second (very sad) comment is from 'K'. I've not included her full name, even though her comment is public, as I am concerned about her mental state. However, I feel it's important to realize that some of the young people attracted to neo-advaita are people with serious mental health issues:

Hi Lisa hope u r well. I wrote to u a bit ago but I guess ur busy. I don't understand my culture of us so called non dualists and how the same conventions of ignoring another human with expedient ease carries on but I already know I'm feeling fragile. I'm suicidal in fact. For months I've been trying to engage with psychiatric services. I'm being abused and I can't stop it. I'm suicidal. I left balanced view of candice o denvers making and my life should end because I can't get any help. Everyone ignores u when ur struggling. I've not a freibd left because I don't know how to talk anymore. I'm aspergic and non duality for real real and a weird brain difference which overwhelmed me before nevermind since I see more than I know what to do with. Balanced view has killed a couple of my friends dear friends gone because of guru games and I think I'm next

These people are very likely to be vulnerable to abuse if they end up in an ashram.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: May 30, 2019 06:47AM

Just perusing Tony Moo's slick website where now there is an 'appreciation' page for the Moo sycophants to give their glowing testimonials...

Most of the contributors have been screened and then edited so as to make them appear as normal as possible, although one named "Pablo" has slipped through the screening process:


Poor Old Pablo refers to himself as a bird trapped in a closed room, thrashing about, then says to Tony: "Thank you for being a hole in this blanket, then net, then you, me.... whatever the fruit, if true, it is by you and for you... I love you."

Someone in the audience starts laughing after the word 'blanket', because like me, she realizes that this whole devotional tribute makes no sense what-so-ever. When she realizes that everyone one else in the audience is actually taking the thing seriously, she stifles her laughter and Pablo continues his delusional tribute.

I'm surprised the editing team/web page design team let this particular video go up - but then I guess they are pretty worn-out form doing all their hundreds of hours of free labor (serva) for Tony! You can't expect perfection when you rely on slavery to get things done.

Here is an excerpt from the tribute by "Lakshmi" - one of Tony's favorite inner circle cult members.

"Thank you for each day you give in service to all of us
Thank you for your holy love that embraces all
Thank you for being the living example of Truth
Thank you for all the miracles I witness daily
Thank you for your healing presence
that transforms ignorance to wisdom, darkness to light"

Ummmmmm.... the miracles she witnesses daily????
Lol, perhaps we should inform the Vatican! The Pope needs to know about this. Miracles are now taking place daily at Monte Sahaja! Wonderful.

But hold on a minute, if Tony Moo could really perform miracles- they why doesn't he just snap his holy fingers and erase all the negative press he has been getting? Wouldn't that be the easiest thing to do?

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: yourenotanobject ()
Date: May 31, 2019 01:30AM

Relatively, I share with Lisa Cairns some difficulty with 2 belief patterns while inside the guru model

- autonomy (which a natural and healthy movement of your true nature) generally being labeled as arrogance

- any resistance will be "yours"(the student's) to look at and transcend (there's no space for the guide/guru to look at his triggering)

At the ultimate level, it's just how things appear and how they HAVE to appear.Deeply, there is no need to believe it shouldn't happen

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: snapping-out ()
Date: May 31, 2019 04:14AM

"holy love", "living example of Truth", "miracles", "healing presence". Well, that's humility for you. But as we know that is not one of the qualities of moo and the moo-moos.

I've been reading up on another very charming "cult" lately, mr. Rajneesh and his rajneeshees. It's scary how simular things are when one compares these two lovely "charities for the benefit of spiritual growth".
Dodgy moneymatters, scam marriages, narcissistic leadership, secretive inner circle, exploitation of people by making them work long hours for no pay on a poor diet, sex with devotees, constant asking for money under the pretence things otherwise won't get done, evading tax by calling oneself a charity, harrassing people who left the group, lawsuits etc. etc. Lower-ranking devotees who do NOT know what goes on behind the "private" sign. Three known suicides so far. At least one gun on the ashram (to shoot the bird, remember). Has the pizzeria been approved of yet? Of course it's just a "spontanious outburst of creativity" and not another way of releaving people of more money.

It's not in phoney tony's words that the truth is found, but in the wheelings and dealings of this "organisation" that is building around this egotist.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: LightWave ()
Date: May 31, 2019 09:09AM

Mt Sahaja is now looking like Chocolate Cake, but tasting like fish.
The power of the Being is Transparency, Truthfulness, Integrity, Naturalness
The power of the Spiritual Ego is Protecting and Preserving an Image of Specialness

3Hour Interview with Brian Rose of the London Real 22/Jan/2018,
at 2:52 Brian asks M, “What are you scared of?”
Mooji searches the air with his thinking eyes looking up diagonally for about 17 seconds then says “I’d be scared if Mooji is only a person!”

Earlier in the interview at about 1:57 Brian asks musingly ‘what’s it like to be a guru’ and M replies, ‘I don’t take nothing personally…sometimes people say things that are deeply hurtful, painful, lies’. Brian unconsciously saves him by answering for M, “like what? When you get this big, I’m guessing they call you a cult”.

M looks relieved to hear the word cult over let’s say accusations of him seducing and sexing the young female devotees. But then he goes on to say “that’s a soft accusation”…he blabbers on comparing himself to Jesus Christ being a cult. M often compares himself to Christ.

This piques Brian’s interest, “so {if} ‘cult’ is soft, what other things have been said?” M replies that he’s being accused of doing drugs, denied access to India, that he died, he’s a multimillionaire, has Rolls Royces. M sums it all up: people are just threatened by my very presence on Earth!

M artfully neglects to mention the strongest accusations are of sexual engagement with his young female devotees, hiding his sexual proclivities under the veil of sainthood, hiding a relationship with Krisnabai, some 30 years younger than him. And that everyone in his inner circle has to silently agree not to call him out on his deception or they will be cast out of the group.

M does not speak openly to his audience about sexual allegations. He covers it with a blanket of I didn’t do any of this. No one can wake up in this atmosphere.

There is no oxygen for this kind of behavior at the higher altitudes of Consciousness.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: LightWave ()
Date: May 31, 2019 10:30AM

M speaks of a negative ‘force’ that works against people who want to wake up. The human dna conditioning and social conditioning keep people trapped in a tightly woven loop of sexual identity.

The male conditioning that M is accused of playing out is old man seducing and sexing young women, competing with younger men, triumphing over them by getting the younger woman, and having dominance over other men to get their worship, sovereign rule over his kingdom and the only one with authority to banish anyone he feels threatened by.

The female conditioning Krisnabai, Lackshmi, shree and others play out is: to be chosen, to be special, to sit next to the most powerful man, to be subservient but hold a special status above the other women. The other women compete with each other and the head Babe, standing in line waiting and ready to be chosen to replace the existing when the head Dude ousts her.

The other conditioning playing out in MtS is the strong desire to belong to a tribe. A tribe that has attraction power so the King can pick and choose. So of course people want to be chosen and accepted into the tribal community with special rituals like silence that make them feel unique.

It’s all personhood, the very idea M preaches to wake up from, they have created. It’s their first bird Nest! We’ve created a special place where people can come and meet God. There is no place else like it on earth. The trap of the Spiritual Ego. Is there any way out?

Openness, Transcendence, Transparency.

Why would a living master hide his lover, why would she agree to being hidden, why would the others agree to cover it up, keep it hidden from the public? Is M and the gang trapped in the loop of lower consciousness charading as Spirituality?

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: LightWave ()
Date: May 31, 2019 10:45AM

I was skeptical of “guru’s” when somebody introduced me to Mooji a few years ago. I saw an arrogance about his physical body and relationships that raised a red flag.

But his characterization of the Self versus personhood revealed the clarity within me about this. I was receptive to this truth, and am thankful for it. And feel that anyone who is receptive will benefit from this. If you’re not receptive, it will not move you.

It comes out on this forum that “everybody knows he’s in a relationship with Krisnabai”. Wrong, I didn’t know and I asked one of the inner circle folks straight out, is Mooji married to one of those three girls who are holding onto his golf cart?
Answer: no, they are his personal aids.
Me: oh so is he having sexual relations with them? Because it looks like something is happening but not being openly admitted to.
Answer: no no, Mooji is not married, he was and had 3 kids, but he’s beyond marriage and those kind of relationships. He only cares about helping us to wake up.
Me: that’s rare. I’m just cautious about guru types with these super-egos.
Answer: Mooji is the real thing, he is a living master, he’s like a Christ. I don’t know how people get taken in by those other deceptive types. But Mooji is not like that, he’s loving and kind and honest.

M felt loving and kind to me, but honest…about his sexual nature, not sure. If he has transcended this consciousness and energy, surely he can lead his devotees thru this narrow passageway. Not seeing that happen. Can you have both, enlightenment and sex, maybe, but you won’t be hiding a loving relationship. I’d like to hear from M and K about the allegations of their relationship.

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