Gaja Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heythere1010101 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Hi Gaja, I feel this same way as well, I was deep into chasing after teachers, books, taking
> > everything as gospel for about as many years as you have. When I left sahaja, I had absolutely no interest
> Hi,
> of course, this is good to discuss it, to come to know what actually had happened. to know better.To
> not make the same mistakes, to grow out of this, wiser, and stronger. To worn those who are wiser
> than I was, and are checking gurus out before they get caught in the trap of spirituality.

Namaste Gaja, namaste Heythere, you are merely giving up the idea that liberation is instant. That's what the cow seems to be selling to the masses, but is now being found out. You can never loose what you truly are, so do not give up on loosing what you are not.

Continue to document the memories of your slavery here, and let it stay here for others who have been diverted out of his enslavement by Grace. You don't have to carry it with you. Then try to slowly move on, without the cow of course.

If the teaching doesn't help me in any way, then the teacher must be wrong.

itsnowornever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the teaching doesn't help me in any way, then
> the teacher must be wrong.

Like an audio book, a cow or parrot is capable of speaking the truth. And an audio book should not cost much. You pay online, download and it does not relieve you of your life savings. And you don't have to slave your youth away.

This forum exists because the audio book has upgraded itself and now claims that it can jump over the moon, wants to imitate the glory of Egyptian pharoahs in Europe, charges you exorbitant money to attend word salad sessions, which does not help you in any way, wasting much time and resources. People speak up because it is really injustice.

>
> Like an audio book, a cow or parrot is capable of
> speaking the truth. And an audio book should not
> cost much. You pay online, download and it does
> not relieve you of your life savings. And you
> don't have to slave your youth away.
>
> This forum exists because the audio book has
> upgraded itself and now claims that it can jump
> over the moon, wants to imitate the glory of
> Egyptian pharoahs in Europe, charges you
> exorbitant money to attend word salad sessions,
> which does not help you in any way, wasting much
> time and resources. People speak up because it is
> really injustice.

______________________
I wouldn't pay for his crazy talks. What for ? To go crazy by myself? No thanks, even if this was for free, I wouldn't listen to it as well.
But I do enjoy listen to silence within myself, is for free, and is pleasant.

Gaja Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I wouldn't pay for his crazy talks. What for ? To
> go crazy by myself? No thanks, even if this was
> for free, I wouldn't listen to it as well.
> But I do enjoy listen to silence within myself, is for free, and is pleasant.

Yes, The road Home is already wrought with obstacles, The real guru guides the way, Not dig more pits for one to stumble into. One who charges considerable money for satsang is far from liberated, is simply stuck in the greed pit. Congratulations on being liberated from the dung pit. Grace has been kind to us.

"If one imagines that others have discovered a true nature that myself has not yet been able to "realize", a painful tension - a dilemma- arises between the degrading story I tell myself on the one hand: 'I'm just a frightened, ennui-stricken, lump of flesh' and the fanciful story of enlightenment, self-realization, and deathlessness on the other.
'I am pure consciousness with no connection to body or ego.' Really?No connection at all?
Sorting this dilemma does not require self-realization, discovering true nature, finding one's place in the supposed 'cosmic order' , or anything else, I say. Discovery takes place only right now, and no one gets to choose what to discover, or when, or how."

itsnowornever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "If one imagines that others have discovered a
> true nature that myself has not yet been able to
> "realize", a painful tension - a dilemma- arises
> between the degrading story I tell myself on the
> one hand: 'I'm just a frightened, ennui-stricken,
> lump of flesh' and the fanciful story of
> enlightenment, self-realization, and deathlessness
> on the other.
> 'I am pure consciousness with no connection to
> body or ego.' Really?No connection at all?
> Sorting this dilemma does not require
> self-realization, discovering true nature, finding
> one's place in the supposed 'cosmic order' , or
> anything else, I say. Discovery takes place only
> right now, and no one gets to choose what
> to discover, or when, or how."

Yes, we already are. Just have to turn within.

I found his interesting comment under one of Rob Juliano's Youtube videos about Moo:

"This is a Bhakti kind of path. Bhakti requires an object of devotion, the leader serves that role. Different paths don't have this type of dynamic. Besides, he is allowed to enjoy being loved, as long as he's using his power wisely. And as far as I've seen, he has. Sex is fine. Having sex with a master is a great blessing because it brings in higher vibrations. Women have an advantage over men in this sense. It's a boost up to a new level. Furthermore, the sex being selfish by Mooji or guru being a common criticism is unfounded. Sex is forced to occur by nature. It benefits Mooji to have sex, it heals both parties, increases health of both parties, and intelligence. Sex is how children are brought into the world. The energy of sex has to be very high to draw in souls from heaven. Now, if a person observes a guru and see he is valuing sex and power over doing god's duty of moving their followers towards liberation, then criticism is needed. This is not seen with Mooji, only fear and confusion regarding the fact that a man is having sex with people under his care. Now, if a break in relationship occurs between a follower and master from sex- who's fault is this. It is the ego of the follower, who is trying to use the sexual past with the master as leverage to gain some existence/power. This is not a loving soul that does this, but, this is why these souls are with a master- to learn about love."

[www.youtube.com]

Well, it's a very interesting way of looking at things, isn't it?

Let's now look at the definition of "Bhakti" from the Harvard University Divinity School:

"Bhakti means devotion. Just as some people are inspired to seek wisdom, others are more naturally disposed to devotion as a spiritual path. The word bhakti, from a root meaning “to share,” conveys the sense of “sharing” inherent in the love of God. Not only does the devotee love God, but God, they say, loves the devotee. Bhakti is expressed in many ways—in songs and hymns, in temple worship, in dance and in plays."

Songs, dance, hymns and plays. Very interesting. Strange how it doesn't mention 'having sex with devotees'. Perhaps we should alert Harvard University to this important discrepancy? Perhaps Old Tony Moo needs to become a guest lecturer at Harvard - just to set them straight?

Or perhaps Moo's official website needs to share his version own of 'Bhakti' with everyone, just so there is no confusion! What a farce.

Quoted material in brackets is Rob Juliano's Youtube material as quoted by Sahara71.

Quote

Bhakti requires an object of devotion, the leader serves that role. Different paths don't have this type of dynamic. Besides, he is allowed to enjoy being loved, as long as he's using his power wisely

Corboy comment: Seems to me the only ones who respond wisely and well to bhakti devotion
are our dogs and cats. It takes profound bhakti to pick up and manually dispose of our Loved One's excrement.

(Oh, my God....perhaps when we pick up the dog and cat poo, we are actually practicing tantra and don't know it!!)

Bhakti devotion between humans, dogs and cats seems to work as well as it does because interspecies sex is forbidden under penalty of law - and social taboo.

Quote

And as far as I've seen, he(Presumably Moo) has. Sex is fine. Having sex with a master is a great blessing because it brings in higher vibrations.

"Having sex with a master is a great blessing because it brings in higher vibrations"

Corboy comment: There are some problems here. This is an assertion, made as though everyone agrees that this is so and that there is no debate.

Hmmm. But there has been debate and there is debate on whether sex with a master is a great blessing. For according to the material from Rob Juliano that Sahara71 quoted in the post above RJ seems to acknowledge others have not found sex with the master to be a great blessing:

Quote

Now, if a break in relationship occurs between a follower and master from sex- who's fault is this. It is the ego of the follower, who is trying to use the sexual past with the master as leverage to gain some existence/power. This is not a loving soul that does this, but, this is why these souls are with a master- to learn about love."

So, there does disagreement whether sexual congress between master and disciple "Having sex with a master is a great blessing". A simple assertion that it is a great blessing is not enough, not unless you're convinced the guru can never ever do wrong.

So lets ask if the term "vibrations" - used to describe something objectively observable and measurable by different persons can be correlated with something - "blessings" that are not objectively observable and measurable.

No. These terms relate to different domains - the objective (science/measurable phenomena) and blessings (metaphysical and subjective) Whether something is a great blessing or a great violation of trust is not measurable in terms of vibrations, whether it is sound waves or light wavelengths.)

Whether something is or is not a blessing is subjective, is debatable and it belongs to the area of metaphysics. There is no universally agreed upon unit of measurement for blessings.

Combining the language of science with that of metaphysics is like trying to play a game of soccer using an American football. Metaphysics and science are discussed using different sets of rules, rules that cannot be combined without generating messy confusing conclusions.

Scientific method is useful only for investigating objective phenomena that can be described using an agreed upon vocabulary and an agreed upon unit of measurement. A stable precise vocabulary shared among investigators is a necessary precondition for scientific method. So is a shared commitment to honest and complete communication of one's findings no matter how personally disappointing this is.

Unlike gurus, scientists must be willing to admit, publicly, "the evidence from different research teams does not support my hypothesis."

"Having sex with a master is a great blessing because it brings in higher vibrations"

Suppose we try to study this using scientific method.

"Vibrations" -- vibrations of what?

Mechanical vibrations?
Electromagnetic vibrations?

How do we know that sex with a master "brings in higher vibrations?"

Did Masters and Johnson report any findings on this?

[www.google.com]

Schultz and Sabelis the Dutch researchers that did MRIs of copulating couples - do they have any findings on this?

*** Not Safe For Work
Must be Over 18 to Read This

[www.google.com]

Has any research been done on this subject by the celebrated Dr. Frank-N-Furter, the sweet transvestite from Transsexual, Transylvania?

[www.google.com]

This is very important. A finding is not robust unless it has been replicated by different researchers If just one person alleges that sex with a master brings in higher vibrations, this is merely anecdotal.

Now, if a person observes a guru and see he is valuing sex and power over doing god's duty of moving their followers towards liberation

Corboy question: "If a person observes".... what about the descriptions given by people on this discussion thread (which has been repeatedly been disrupted by trolls) and other discussions shut down?

Quote

Now, if a break in relationship occurs between a follower and master from sex- who's fault is this. It is the ego of the follower, who is trying to use the sexual past with the master as leverage to gain some existence/power. This is not a loving soul that does this, but, this is why these souls are with a master- to learn about love."

Corboy comment: No other motive is considered possible for a dismayed disciple except "leverage to gain some existence/power?"

What if the disciple was not informed that having sex with the master will be the pedagogical method used to "learn about love"?

To refresh our memories, lets look at xivoparig's post from almost two years ago, the item that transformed this discussion thread from a sedate backwater into a volcanically active discussion that brought a legion of trolls -- and many others some stating they have spent considerable time at Monte Sahaja.

This is how one is taught about love?

Quote

Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: xivoparig
Date: August 10, 2018 02:26AM

This account may be deleted but I am posting anonymously to help others and for fear of being found. Mooji is a straight up conman in the worst sense praying on the desperate and vulnerable. He is a rapist and everybody has to be warned. This happened over a year ago over the span of 2-3 months or so. I don't want to post much more than that as his may be reading.

I was having a rough time with money and having a home and I ended up at a Mooji talk in London. At this point in your life, anything free is a blessing. I wasn't the only one in this situation, there were a few of us that were given food, shelter and in exchange for an 'open mind'. I was thankful for this - much better than the streets and you don't mind filling the time with hearing someone speak. We went along to hear him talk to the masses and it was quite inspirational and this went on for a while with us 'following him'... well there is nothing like a free lunch.

I started seeing some females who I met in similar situations as me who would have 'private talks' with Mooji and come out of rooms looking detached and something bubbling below. I had a friend, let's call her 'Sarah'. Whenever I asked Sarah what happened, she would put on a fake smile and spout that life is beautiful we have to believe. This wasn't the real them and it bugged me that something wasn't right. Mooji never really invited me privately in but his crew spoke to me a lot about 'giving myself' to them whatever that meant, submitting for the higher good and belief. It was wishy washy to pinpoint what I was supposed to believe but the sheer force of belief coming from the crew made me didn't want to question this for fear of being thrown out on the streets. I felt like I had to contribute something but I didn't know. Work? Giving out leaflets? Not sure.

So far, there was a positive focus and sense of wellbeing but for what price?

This happened one day a while into my stint with them. I had to sleep when I could being with so many others so I found a quiet corner behind some bags in a venue. I curled up and was trying to drift off amongst the people coming in and out setting up. I couldn't fall asleep so I was lying there trying to relax. I finally sat up and I could see mooji and one of his crew members who I always saw float around mooji and not say much (I didn't even recall hearing his voice) talking to each other. They had their backs to me and i felt a bit strange as nobody else was around and they couldn't see me. I heard them talking about 'Sarah'. Mooji was asking top crew guy if 'sarah' was ready to give herself. ' The crew guy was saying how 'i've been working on her, she'll be *sleeping* with you within the week'.
I was shocked at the frankness of this abuse and it made sense from sarah's detached personality. She was being forcd to prostitute herself to mooji!
Mooji was asking about some others and what they are 'contributing' and the crew guy was talking about them giving money (some followers had money and were not sleeping on the street).

I sat back down behind the bags and lied down quietly as I could sweating if they found me, they would not only kick me out but silence me.

I had to leave and I knew I wouldn't have long with Sarah. I was ready to go and I had to plan my exit so I chose my moment to speak to her about what I heard. She called me a liar and how I didn't believe enough. She was on the verge of tears and her words didn't match how she felt with this conflicting information I was telling her. She was too far gone. I left straight away and I never found out what happened to her. If you're reading sarah or if you ARE a 'sarah' then I urge you to trust your instincts and not fall into the mooji trap. He's preying on the weak with having to believe in something. Don't give him money, don't give him your body. He is using a positive persona and behind this is a twisted evil man. I'm now doing ok, I have a job, a home. There is a way out of this cult.

xivoparig also wrote this

[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote

Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: xivoparig
Date: August 11, 2018 01:26AM

(Quoted material from a previous post by Corboy deleted)

Thank you corboy. That is good good advice for everyone.
I am trusting no-one. Not even you. I do not want to be interviewed and I recognize the danger in speaking about what happened. The whole Mooji cult works on followers deflecting and entrapment. The constant repetitiveness of tasks, chants that make the cult a part of your daily life. I saw this starting to happen to me. I saw lots of potential people in this position, giving their money and bodies away to this cult. This is the first place that came up on search so I posted. I want Mooji exposed and I am hoping this gets publicized and the press jumps on him. I know that if Sarah or others search the internet this post will come up and they can read and reflect on themselves how to get out before they are in too deep. My message to Mooji and any other cult that IS your life is don't be blinded and lead on with 'belief'.

xivoparig later wrote this

Quote

Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: xivoparig
Date: August 11, 2018 11:06AM

Well I had to sleep where I could which is what led me to find out this! We were kept 'busy. What I can remember is some people didn't have any real names. They had new names, identities and personas and leave the material world to find true happiness. In a nutshell this did mean cutting yourself off from people. There was a sense of freedom and movement ..but it wasn't real freedom. It is hard to explain as there is a trance like state everyone was in. I wasn't fully integrated but I was being beckoned into the group more and more as time went on. If I was there for longer I'm not sure how cut off I would be and how deep it got. I was one of the group that was very new and kept my guard up more than others so mooji's followers didn't talk to me as much as they talked to others who after formed a strange bond that shunned us new blood out. From general chit chat those very close to mooji people didn't want to talk about their 'old lives' or personas because it 'wasn't important' when I approached them. They seemed like they had nobody but the golden path of this trickster mooji. Maybe they were too far brainwashed. There were different levels of people. Those who were deep into it were closes to mooji and they had no life before meeting him and the new blood were all being reeled in and slowly transformed. It was a false sense of trust. It's terrifying to think about.

xivoparig took a break and later revisited the discussion.

Quote

https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,135827,141644#msg-141644

Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2020 07:13AM by corboy.

Does Moo reportedly commanding a heron be shot - a mother heron - because the bird is feeding on expensive koi fish in a decorative pond - does that sound like a lesson in love?

Discussions of the heron situation can be read here:

[forum.culteducation.com]