Quote
Traveler99
So to go back to our main topic here, where is Mooji on this 'continuum'?

And, really, where on this "scale" are 99% of the "spiritual teachers" out there?

Good question! In my assessment (which may of course be incorrect), there aren't any well known present day teachers that are as far along the continuum as Ramana, but plenty who are further along than Mooji. And I think all of those would laugh at the notion of selling pots of dirt they "may have walked on" or chains with their picture on it or accepting titles like "Sri Baba" or any other part of the Mooji guru theatre. By the way, Mooji-dirt isn't for sale anymore it seems, but the Mooji picture chains still are: [satsangshop.com]

I think teachers who still have egoic tendencies (which probably is all/most of them) but don't acknowledge those are disingenuous or deluded and should be avoided.

I think the ASI code of ethics for spiritual teachers is a good tool for assessing the trustworthiness of teachers: [www.spiritual-integrity.org]

In relation to the above, this part of the code is particularly relevant:

Quote

2.3 Teachers openly acknowledge their own imperfection and do not encourage students to see them as perfect. Teachers openly acknowledge their own shadow and blind spots and actively engage in the healing and integrating them, thus modeling their humanity authentically to students.
2.4 Teachers agree not spiritually bypass their humanity or use spiritual concepts and approaches to avoid looking at their own deficiencies. They are expected to be prepared to acknowledge the limitations of their skills and wisdom.

Part of the feedback which Mooji recently received (and dismissed) from an attendee at his satsang addressed the same problem:
[youtu.be]

Quote

I want to ask you if you are aware of the fact that unconsciously many people coming to you are actually trying to replicate an image of you, not the reality of you, because they don't perceive the totality of you. They don't perceive you as a human being also, and I feel this is a missing component in your teaching, a very very missing component in your teaching, because they can not be complete unless they see you as a human also—with your emotions, with your screaming, with your shouting, with everything that you are, as a human.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2020 12:14AM by zizlz.

One day in Apr 2019, a senior person from his inner circle living in MS, messaged my sangha leader to complain about a woman from our locality, who was ‘giving’ him problems and he was not happy. My sangha leader shared this with me. I suddenly realized that this man may not be interested in expanding effort to help ‘troublesome’ people at all; he seems to have not come for the sick. Instead, he may be benefiting from those who are doing well. So unlike Christ. In fact, I had already experienced a similar attitude from another senior person from his inner circle in Feb 2017 at the Rishikesh satsang, but I had then dismissed any judgment in favor of my ‘ego problem’. I recall sometime in Feb 2016 seeing a video sent from him to my sangha leader asking for Macbook Pro (maxed spec) because someone had thrashed his existing one with beverage spillage. This incident started me rationalizing why a ‘simple’ and ‘humble’ guru would need such luxury item which is mostly used by the rich or professionals, and I really felt sorry for my sangha leader because that person went around asking for donations to buy the new laptop to bring on a trip to MS.

In June 2019, I was encouraged by my sangha leader to go for the One Sangha gathering at MS where ‘chosen’ members from sangha groups all over the world went to attend. We were asked to fill in our personal particulars, including photograph, passport number, issue and expiry dates. In addition, we were required to make short introductory video featuring ourselves, stating the motivation and reason for going to MS. They made it look like they were filtering ‘troublesome’ applicants out. And something in me refused to do such a video, so my application was refused.

I am glad now that I never spend my savings on that trip, because in Oct 2019, Grace brought me to Ramana Ashram where my questions were answered at his samadhi for a fraction of the cost. After that trip, I got a grip of my ego and was never bothered by questions arising from the mind again. Even when I lost my lost my job and ran into money problems after my trip to see Ramana, as well as having to live apart from my family, I was never the same person again. Grace has allowed me to see through him and this transient world. Please do not take this to mean that I have self realised the Truth because I have not. It only means that I have got of good grip of my ego and slowing wearing it down.

Throughout this time, I was never against his teachings even though I felt confused most of the time by the very vague and ambiguous philosophical descriptions of Truth. I had blamed my perceived lack of progress on my spiritual immaturity. I wrote him a letter in Feb 2019 to get an indication of my spiritual progress. He had read this to the Rishikesh satsang audience in a manner that gave me the feeling that he used it to entertain the crowd, without specifically answering my question. In fact, I was only guided to an understanding of the answer to my question at Ramana’s samadhi. In my opinion, he could not guide me because he may not have had the experience and therefore does not have the authority to do damage to my ego.

My sangha leader was never in favor of my trip to see Ramana in Tiruvannamalai. There was constant insistence to go to MS where “all spiritual activities are happening” and “there is nothing in Tiru”. And when I persisted, there were continuous inquiries into my Tiru itinerary, which I did not hide. When I reach Tiru, my sangha leader messaged me and said that the moo sangha group at Tiruvannamalai was airing an online live broadcast of moo retreat satsang in Lisbon and the Tiruvannamalai sangha leader can come pick me to go to their gathering place. I said no. Then another day, a beautiful girl (yes, she was beautiful) was waiting for me at Ramana Ashram entrance. I don't know her, but she recognized me and know my name. She invited me to go to their satsang place to watch moo online live satsang. I said no and walk off. I felt so hounded.

I am so blessed to be able to see through all these. Grace has been very kind to me. I also want to give credit to my sangha leader for starting me on the path to Truth and hope that many will come to realize that they are already Light onto themselves.

How is it possible that they have firearms on Monte Sahaja? Are they going to use them against any human being in addition to the heron?
I find that very worrying. Also I would like to know if those weapons are legal.

What Stefa has written is very interesting.

Stefa, welcome to CEI message board.

If you get any private messages that seem odd or inappropriate, send a copy to Rick Ross, ASAP. He wants this message board to remain a safe place.

You can contact Mr. Ross here.

[forum.culteducation.com]


Could it be that applicants to this special event were required to send in videos of themselves -- so that their physical appearance and mannerisms can be assessed and documented?

Stefa wrote:

Quote

In June 2019, I was encouraged by my sangha leader to go for the One Sangha gathering at MS where ‘chosen’ members from sangha groups all over the world went to attend. We were asked to fill in our personal particulars, including photograph, passport number, issue and expiry dates. In addition, we were required to make short introductory video featuring ourselves, stating the motivation and reason for going to MS. They made it look like they were filtering ‘troublesome’ applicants out. And something in me refused to do such a video, so my application was refused..

Look how quickly someone ID'd you at the Ramanasram even though you chose not to send in a video. Somehow, someone in the Moo Empire aquired information about your travel itinerary and --- what you look like.

Quote

My sangha leader was never in favor of my trip to see Ramana in Tiruvannamalai. There was constant insistence to go to MS where “all spiritual activities are happening” and “there is nothing in Tiru”. And when I persisted, there were continuous inquiries into my Tiru itinerary, which I did not hide. When I reach Tiru, my sangha leader messaged me and said that the moo sangha group at Tiruvannamalai was airing an online live broadcast of moo retreat satsang in Lisbon and the Tiruvannamalai sangha leader can come pick me to go to their gathering place. I said no. Then another day, a beautiful girl (yes, she was beautiful) was waiting for me at Ramana Ashram entrance. I don't know her, but she recognized me and know my name. She invited me to go to their satsang place to watch moo online live satsang. I said no and walk off. I felt so hounded.

If you were not living at Monte Sahaja and Tiru and got this kind of scrutiny, what kind of snooping goes on at Monte Sahaja, Zmar and the various other Moo events, eh?

If Moo is a genuine jnani, he would forbid this behavior. His minions would know it would not please him, so they would not do it at all.

Interesting too that Stefa reports being invited to this special Chosen Ones event. This suggests your sangha leader may have said something resulted in that invitation being made to you. Someone must have decided to get a closer look at you because you might be a potentially desirable addition to the Moo Empire portfolio of human assets.

Perhaps you have valuable education, highly marketable skills, desirable social connections, etc. Not just anyone is invited to such events. If you run a business where you have clients, such a teaching yoga, being a body worker, psychotherapist you'd be an especially valuable addition to any guru's portfolio because you could market the guru to clients.

Good that you escaped.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2020 01:18AM by corboy.

Stefa wrote:

Quote

I recall sometime in Feb 2016 seeing a video sent from him to my sangha leader asking for Macbook Pro (maxed spec) because someone had thrashed his existing one with beverage spillage. This incident started me rationalizing why a ‘simple’ and ‘humble’ guru would need such luxury item which is mostly used by the rich or professionals, and I really felt sorry for my sangha leader because that person went around asking for donations to buy the new laptop to bring on a trip to MS.

Is this the kind of Macbook Moo requested?

[www.google.com]

Stefa's Experience--
Is Mooji's Organization becoming "Big Brother"?
Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
Please share if you have.

A few posts ago I mentioned some great former inner circle members that my friend called Bob and Kathy. These two would NEVER have engaged in activities like this so called "Sangha Leader" and others in Mooji's organization did.

Is this "Sangha Leader" and his compatriot "Make a Video and Tell us Everything" folks typical? As Corboy asked, does Mooji know about this?

Truly, they must find Stefa a potentially "valuable asset" in some way.

The thought of any spiritual person telling an aspirant not to go to Ramanasram in Tiruvannamalai, and not to abide in the energy of the holy mountain Arunachala, is absolutely abhorrent to me.

One of the most attuned spiritual persons I know is a person who has spent decades in India (and in Europe and North America) meeting virtually all the "big name" teachers and gurus. For the last few years he has chosen to quietly reside most of the year in the environs of Arunachala. He sees the mountain first thing every day, and goes to sleep with it glowing under the moon and the stars. This person says, "Ramana is my guru. I have him and the mountain. What else would I need?"

Even when this person is not in India this person's awareness is. A focus on the "Truth" (words fail, as usual. This truth is beyond "true and false," but how to express it?) as shared by Ramana is enough for this person to have peace of mind, to live assured and fearless, in the moment, aware that everything can change in the "next" second, but that the moment is rich, is All That Is.

My friend the Hermit lives the same way, but in the USA. The location is irrelevant. But even he was "helped" years ago by a visit to Arunachala and Ramanasram.

For anyone to claim that being with any teacher, Mooji or anyone else, at their ashram is "better" than visiting to the long-time home of Sri Ramana Maharshi... Words cannot express my utter incomprehension at hearing such a statement. Nowhere is "better" than that place, even as 90% of the "teachers" who flood there every January and February are horrible frauds who at best have become stuck in what Sri Aurobindo called the "Intermediate Zone" where they have "gone astray" and ended up in and as a "spiritual disaster." (For more of the Intermediate Zone, see recent posts in the Aaravindha Himadra and in the James Swartz threads.)


MOOJI,
EVEN MORE IS COMING OUT THAT SHOWS THE INTERVIEW
(Requested in the "Open Letter" to you above)
NEEDS TO HAPPEN!
Please, do this.

Mooji, perhaps you really are feeling "snowed" and "buried" by all the "stuff" attendant to being the Great Guru and the head of a huge Sangha and big Ashram.

Do you have "peace of mind" now?

Suddenly I wonder about this.

And if you don't, you're in the need of a break. You need what you likely recommend to many of your followers. Time to process. Time to "Be."

I'd recommend you take some time for you. Find "the hut by the river" you mentioned in Rishikesh in 2017, and go to it. Be for a while. You, the sky, the flowing water, a forest, and...

That must sound good to you. It sure does to me.

Before going, though, do appoint a "caretaker" who is not a Big Brother type. Perhaps without you knowing it, they seem to be all around you. (I'd recommend Bob and Kathy, actually...)

Perhaps I'm dreaming. Although I do suspect that this is also your dream, too.

Hello Corboy,

The model would be close to what is described in

[www.techradar.com]

Take note though that our locality is not in the US to get top US specs, but the estimated cost would be 1600 USD, not including a gel cover for the keyboard to protect against similar spillage of beverage.

This was significantly beyond me because I would only buy second hand laptop and DIY upgrade the memory and hard disk for personal use. This would only cost under 150 USD for a first generation i7 quad core HP elitebook from about 10 years ago.

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you get any private messages that seem odd or
> inappropriate, send a copy to Rick Ross, ASAP. He
> wants this message board to remain a safe place.
>
> You can contact Mr. Ross here.
>
> [forum.culteducation.com]

Thank you very much for the information.


> Could it be that applicants to this special event
> were required to send in videos of themselves --
> so that their physical appearance and mannerisms
> can be assessed and documented?

Could be a lot of things like assessing sincerity. But the feeling I got wasn't that. Even the email (sorry i use email and letter interchangeably) that I sent him in Feb 2019 had to have a photograph of myself, which i thought was very odd, but I did sent it anyway.


> Look how quickly someone ID'd you at the
> Ramanasram even though you chose not to send in a
> video. Somehow, someone in the Moo Empire aquired
> information about your travel itinerary and ---
> what you look like.

Yes, the lady at Ramanashram ID'd me with a usb camera sitting on top her computer 15" monitor.


> If you were not living at Monte Sahaja and Tiru
> and got this kind of scrutiny, what kind of
> snooping goes on at Monte Sahaja, Zmar and the
> various other Moo events, eh?

I never thought about this until you mention it now. Thank for sharing.

> If Moo is a genuine jnani, he would forbid this
> behavior. His minions would know it would not
> please him, so they would not do it at all.

If he is a jnani, he would have seen through the world into my need from the questions specified in the letter (email),the photograph I sent him and would have answered my questions specific to my need and not play the crowd. Let's contrast this with my experience at Ramana Ashram Oct 2019. One afternoon, while I was sitting in the old hall, I was informed by the ashram kitchen attendant (Kanan), that a jnani whom I wanted to meet was sitting in the mother's shrine. I rushed out and ran (very rude but i did) across the new shrine (now housing Ramana's samadhi) to the mother's shrine and received a darshan so strong it caused me a momentary lapse in awareness, something like a blackout (senses wipeout), lost of body consciousness. Words can never come close to describing this. I just stood there in front of IT. When I recovered, IT was gone. IT knew I was coming and IT was standing there, facing the direction I was approaching IT and waiting for me to come into sight to give me the darshan I wanted. You see, if you have experienced the real thing, you can easily differentiate a fake.


> Interesting too that Stefa reports being invited
> to this special Chosen Ones event. This suggests
> your sangha leader may have said something
> resulted in that invitation being made to you.
> Someone must have decided to get a closer look at
> you because you might be a potentially desirable
> addition to the Moo Empire portfolio of human
> assets.
>
> Perhaps you have valuable education, highly
> marketable skills, desirable social connections,
> etc. Not just anyone is invited to such events. If
> you run a business where you have clients, such a
> teaching yoga, being a body worker,
> psychotherapist you'd be an especially valuable
> addition to any guru's portfolio because you could
> market the guru to clients.

Yes, my sangha leader showed me the message that was sent to Meera Om in the organizing committee in which my leader had strongly recommended me. I just did not want to conform to their self-video requirement, that's why the rejection. On hindsight, what you just shared is quite likely because, i used to be in microelectronics design, then accounts, finance, internal audit and later medicine.

Traveler99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this "Sangha Leader" and his compatriot "Make a
> Video and Tell us Everything" folks typical? As
> Corboy asked, does Mooji know about this?

Namaste, Instructions for video came straight from MS, I do not know if Mooji know about it or if the sangha leader helped others take a video of themselves, but I rejected having anything to do with sending one.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contents of Letter from MS confirming application for One Sangha gathering 2019
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: International Sangha <sangha@mooji.org>
Date: Tue, Jun X, 2019 at X:XX XX
Subject: One Sangha Gathering – Application Confirmation
To: <XX>

Dear one,



Your application to join the One Sangha Gathering has been received. On 24 June, we will notify you whether you will be able to attend. Please do not make any travel arrangements before you receive confirmation from us.



If you did not have a chance to submit a video yet, you can still submit it here.



Full love and gratitude,

International Sangha Team
------------------------------
End Letter
------------------------------


> The thought of any spiritual person telling an
> aspirant not to go to Ramanasram in
> Tiruvannamalai, and not to abide in the energy of
> the holy mountain Arunachala, is absolutely
> abhorrent to me.

Devotees of Ramana, a couple in their seventies, whom Grace connected me to, were responsible for organising my trip to Tiru. They told me that Shiva himself was present as the mountain and Ramana's Grace was strong at the Ashram. Something in me knew they were not boasting. So when my sangha leader said 'there is nothing in Tiru', my suspicions were aroused.

> One of the most attuned spiritual persons I know
> is a person who has spent decades in India (and in
> Europe and North America) meeting virtually all
> the "big name" teachers and gurus. For the last
> few years he has chosen to quietly reside most of
> the year in the environs of Arunachala. He sees
> the mountain first thing every day, and goes to
> sleep with it glowing under the moon and the
> stars. This person says, "Ramana is my guru. I
> have him and the mountain. What else would I
> need?"

Every morning at 3am, i do a walking (giri pradakshina) round the mountain. Complete normally by about 6:15-6:30am if I don't deviate into the surrounding temples. i experienced the mind numbing effect throughout the day. The effect is just like returning to childhood days, where the mind is simply incapable of thinking about anything. It just refuse to function. Like it decided to go on strike. Never experienced anything like this before. had problems remembering my temporary visa card password but luckily i wrote it down before the trip. I was physically at moo's satsang in rishikesh feb 2017, and managed to get a hug from him. That hug is only human compared to my Tiru's experience.

In my opinion, we, including moo, need to eventually merge our ego with the Absolute. that probably is the only contribution of value to humanity.

stefa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> corboy Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Look how quickly someone ID'd you at the
> > Ramanasram even though you chose not to send in
> a
> > video. Somehow, someone in the Moo Empire
> aquired
> > information about your travel itinerary and ---
> > what you look like.
>
> Yes, the lady at Ramanashram ID'd me with a usb
> camera sitting on top her computer 15" monitor.
>

Sorry Corboy, I misunderstood your original message. Yes, I was very surprised. To authenticate and gain trust, she was able to give me the name of my sangha leader in my home country, which also shows that there had been communication between them. There are so many people entering and leaving the ashram every day, and for her to be able to single me out, she must be really doing a very good job to say the least.

What I had wanted to say in my first reply to Corboy was the registration when we first arrived at Ramana Ashram's residence was simple. Dr. Murthy copied particulars from our passport, and visa. Then a lady photographed us individually using a usb camera sitting on top of her 15" monitor. Apparently, they have to conform to indian residency laws. The hotel in rishikesh where we stay for the satsang in feb 2017 did the same thing. Sorry for the misunderstanding and thank you.