Joyfree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It is just awesome how much information is on this
> tread that is of immense value!!!
>
>
>
> I know that for many it is a huge huge step to
> only search for it, to only allow the possibility
> that he might not be that great. But I find it is
> a big difference to see over 100pages now and so
> many contributing to this! Where people actually
> share their experiences, share valuable
> information and actually interact with each other.
> And do not get censored, deleted or threatened.
>
> Again, thank you all for this!


YES, Joyfree, absolutely!


So much great content and sharing here, thank you everyone, I have to catch up with everything!

Just one thing: in Lisbon or any other town, M cannot "keep the crowd together" and brainwash everyone as it was possible in Zmar, so this is a good step so that they didn't want him there anymore! Just the whole scenery in Zmar was so nice, noone could leave the premises, spending all time and meals together and so on created a special atmosphere....it was perfect for him!


And him wanting to recruit more portuguese people could turn out not so good for him I think. If it is more and more seen through that he is leading a cult , at some point portugiese connections could work against him. So this development is good for us!

just read the article PapajisaysNO refers to. Thank you so much! It's so clear now what really happens during satsang and these "silent meditations" and that thing called "invitation to bondage forever". So all these 'spiritual" experiences I was having were no more than the normal workings of my own mind.

About this distortion of time that occurs while in a trance; I more and more had trouble remembering things. What day it was, names of people etc. Heard M. say several times that was a good sign. You were becoming more settled in the truth, in the now.
Also remember his account of this sanghamember, running around, being totally panicked because she couldn't find 'herself'. She was so scared. No, mister Moo thought that to be a particularly good sign. At the time I was still hanging onto every word of his, believing it to be the voice of god. So wow, that is what I wanted too. In hindsight it must have been a very unhealthty state of mind to be in...I doubt she got the help to get back to reality when Moo considers it te be a "blessing". Another thing also heard him say was that some of his close disciples started to forget their past alltogether.! That would explain the emptiness and dullness in their eyes I more than once wondered about.

The more I get into this, learn from all of you, dig into my own memories, questions and doubts, the more I know how lucky anyone is who gets to see through this veil of holy, holy bs, starting to place value again onto their own feelings. I wish many more find this forum, this thread and so can also start to heal from this..it works for me that way, again thank you all so much.

Thank you Valma for your very warm welcome!
I agree with you completely that the easter video shows a disturbed man! He is trying very much to convince himself of whatever he would like to be his reality.
I find this is the most disturbing messenger so far. But than again, not long ago I was still under “his spell”

It is very sad indeed about the guy F. that committed suicide! May his soul rest in peace!
And it is something carefully being hidden, not to speak of, probably in hope that it will be forgotten and from memories erased so the “holy land” and his “formless” majesty can continue the Disney-trance show.

Yes, I fully agree that questioning is absolutely essential! Like air to breathe!
If questioning is not allowed or dismissed, this should be a huge red flag for everyone!
Even when someone has the slightest doubt and is either ashamed or afraid to ask, it should raise a red flag!

I was not aware about the early bird before. I remember the never ending darshan session at the last Lisbon retreat.
I remember also at that retreat a guy from South America spoke and he also mentioned that his wife got sick and could not come to Portugal. I was very surprised to see this guy later in Sahaja, remaining there and entering a relationship with a long time devotee of M. The relationship got blessed by M and the guy remains “happily ever after” in Sahaja.

hi Ananas,

you write they didn't want him in Zmar. That would be in the line of things. Not being wanted in a place. From what I read, that also happened in Tiruvannamalai (tax-issues), the US (an alledged drugconviction in the UK) and Rishikesh in 2018. Reason given; him being too tired to go.
Can anyone shed more light on this?

Quote

It turns out that almost everybody has the inherent ability to see inner light and hear inner sound. Moreover, almost everybody has the capacity to have an out-of-body experience and behold wondrous inner visions. You don't need to go to an Indian guru to have such experiences indeed, you don't need to go anywhere at all.

But that's not what Kirpal Singh and his successors told their vast following. Instead, unsuspecting seekers(who number in the thousands) were taught to believe that it was the guru himself, not the disciple, who was orchestrating the elevation of the soul into higher regions. But Kirpal and crew were not being completely forthcoming about the mechanism which governs access to such amazing sights and sounds. That mechanism is the brain and that three pounds of glorious tissue is the lot of all humans - David C Lane, quoted from below.

Here is an item to supplement what we are learning about trance induction.

An article titled 'The Kirpal Statistic' written by David C Lane.

[www.ex-premie.org]

Lane, while teaching high school classes, discovered to his own amazement that he
could easily create a setting in which many of the students self generated
inner experiences.

Thanks to Internet Archives Wayback Machine, here is a saved copy of a discussion
of how neurolinguistic nested loops story telling works as a method of trance induction.



[web.archive.org]

One person in the discussion mentioned something called 'tonal chaining' -- utilizing voice inflection.

See if, along with everything else, someone might just might use voice inflection.

Just now I ran a google search. NLP tonal inflection.

[www.google.com]

A way to look at laughter.

Quote

The Manipulative Side of Laughter
University of California researchers Gregory A. Bryant and C. Athena Aktipis conducted studies around the thesis of laughter as a “co-evolutionary arms race” where two members of a species use evolutionary biology to manipulate communication. The researchers describe how genuine, spontaneous laughter signals other humans that they are seeking a positive relationship or at least a non-threatening one. After all, laughter is “known to trigger cataplexy,” or decreased muscle strength, which puts individuals in a more vulnerable state.

This means that volitional laughter can give a person the upper hand if you believe their non-threatening signals. A suspect can fake laughter to throw you off or weaken your position if they manage to make you laugh. Suspects also pretend to laugh in response to threatening questions or to avoid answering a question.

and

Quote

The Human Connection Through Laughter
All laughter is a kind of mimicry, which is why when someone laughs, we often laugh too, even if we don’t find the situation funny. Suspects use various forms of mimicry, such as repeating words, using the same cadence as another person, or using volitional laughter to manipulate people. Law enforcement can also use mimicry to counter their behavior by refusing to mimic or taking note of their deceptive signals.

While laughter can be used by suspects to throw off an investigator, law enforcement can also use the mimicry of laughter to connect with suspects. When someone mirrors our behavior, we’re more likely to relate to them, and we feel a bond with the people we laugh with. Laughter releases endorphins and simply makes people feel good, and while the goal of interviewing a suspect isn’t to make them feel happy, it certainly doesn’t hurt to put the suspect at ease. Building rapport and making a person feel comfortable is one of the hallmarks of the CVSA interview. If someone smiles or laughs, it means they are comfortable in the environment.

For more, read here.

Evaluating Laughter as a Deceptive Technique in the Police Interview

[www.cvsa1.com]

Corboy: I really really appreciate bringing into the discussion the role of the neurology/brain/mind in relation to how humans ultimately manifest their experience - and I mean any experience! It's where the rubber meets the road, and lies at the heart of discontent of M's followers who find themselves back out on the street - out of that self-induced trance of the imagined Self. I remember David Godman describing the final realization of an old devotee of Ramana's - how arduous, how dedicated, how intensely focused like a laser this gentleman was in order to attain that state - how rare an occurrence that final step is and how VERY FEW have done it. The utter frustration of M's devotees in 'wanting it' is nothing more than M. dangling some fictional carrot (GMO) and leading them into a false state - or a very mislabeled state which M. wants everyone to believe is the Self.


Forgive this sidebar into fantasy but as Peter Pan said to the children who wanted to 'fly' just like him:
" Just think lovely thoughts Michael, and up you'll go" - to Neverland where dreams are born and time is never planned, it's not on any chart, you must find it with your heart, Never Never land!" There are a lot of metaphorical images here, (also the Pied Piper comes to mind.) - even with M's invitation script of 'leave it all aside, leave it, leave it....this is still a mental function in which the brain + consciousness projects some visual to match the 'image' being requested, and the person has some physiological mirroring response - taken to be the Self. But because it remains in the mental field it is fleeting.

My feeling is that we are doing this to ourselves 24/7 anyway, with every action, desire, movement of body or mind, etc - but not as a trance hypnotic method - it's just IMO, the way consciousness-energy works - the fabric of our creative function. How do we create anything in our lives, even making a cup of tea? same process, but we don't stay in the kitchen making tea all day and night - like M. is inferring one should 'stabilize, become mature' in their 'seeing'
Seeing is a body/mind/senses function - it is not beyond the beyond as they say.

A few months ago I left Mooji and noticed how immediately my mind wanted to fill in the empty space left from not attending or watching satsangs and having that activity to which I realize, I was addicted. Yet I couldn't tolerate any teachers anymore - the whole teacher scene has become unbearable frankly. This forum became the healing balm in every way for which I am so grateful to each and every one of you. My point is that this journey is ongoing to retrain my own consciousness to be secure in the knowing that it's me as an individual soul and Source - that's the full package - and if that changes somehow, so be it. Cultivating my own consciousness to be a better prism to reflect the qualities of goodness is what has become important, and any pie in the sky carrot dangling images are dissolving.

Ananas wrote:
“
Just one thing: in Lisbon or any other town, M cannot "keep the crowd together" and brainwash everyone as it was possible in Zmar, so this is a good step so that they didn't want him there anymore! Just the whole scenery in Zmar was so nice, noone could leave the premises, spending all time and meals together and so on created a special atmosphere....it was perfect for him!

And him wanting to recruit more portuguese people could turn out not so good for him I think. If it is more and more seen through that he is leading a cult , at some point portugiese connections could work against him. So this development is good for us!
„

Indeed! Zmar and Sahaja are perfect places to pull one out of any reality into theirs. If one wants to leave, they are very much explained how the throw away they chance to freedom and how they waste that great opportunity presented by grace. Since everything in happening in complete silence, even if you have any doubts, one might start thinking wrong about himself because all of those hundreds of people seem to be just very comfortable. Not knowing what they are going through and how doubtful many of them might be as well. But then, after the second, most the third day, you just give in and find yourself kneeing in front of an empty chair…
It is great if they will never have access to Zmar again.
Probably this is one of the motives they want to recruit more people from Portugal, to expand the capacity of sahaja, so they are not dependable on outer locations in the future and can carry on far from any outer people and clear minds.
It is also true that they are doing everything possible to keep any attention away from the local people. Everyone is properly instructed how to behave and interact with locals, how to keep silence and don’t stick out in any way.

Another IMPORTANT thing that is to be taken into consideration:
Since 2015 Portugal has more strictly enforced a long-standing law!!! Anyone is required to report with the authorities within 3 weeks of arrival.
Here is the link with exact information:
[www.alesclarecimentos.pt]

This is a big issue they are having, because attention is the last thing they want! And let’s just leave it open how many are really reported that are there for a long stay……
In this light, it makes a lot of sense to get in more portugese citizens. Even if the flip side of the coin is to draw more attention in the country….


snapping-out wrote:
“
just read the article PapajisaysNO refers to. Thank you so much! It's so clear now what really happens during satsang and these "silent meditations" and that thing called "invitation to bondage forever". So all these 'spiritual" experiences I was having were no more than the normal workings of my own mind.

About this distortion of time that occurs while in a trance; I more and more had trouble remembering things. What day it was, names of people etc. Heard M. say several times that was a good sign. You were becoming more settled in the truth, in the now.
Also remember his account of this sanghamember, running around, being totally panicked because she couldn't find 'herself'. She was so scared. No, mister Moo thought that to be a particularly good sign. At the time I was still hanging onto every word of his, believing it to be the voice of god. So wow, that is what I wanted too. In hindsight it must have been a very unhealthty state of mind to be in...I doubt she got the help to get back to reality when Moo considers it te be a "blessing". Another thing also heard him say was that some of his close disciples started to forget their past alltogether.! That would explain the emptiness and dullness in their eyes I more than once wondered about.

The more I get into this, learn from all of you, dig into my own memories, questions and doubts, the more I know how lucky anyone is who gets to see through this veil of holy, holy bs, starting to place value again onto their own feelings. I wish many more find this forum, this thread and so can also start to heal from this..it works for me that way, again thank you all so much.
“

I’m exactly in the same place snapping-out. I’m still recovering from memory loss! I forgot key things and major happenings in my life and when family and friends brought up stories I remembered some but not all, which some of them are really essential for being integrated in society.

The article is really a huge help to easily understand what exactly is going on, because from the point of view of M and sangha all this stuff happening to one is a “blessing”.

What is really hard for me to understand is that there are members of the sangha that are psychologists and some are actually caring out that profession! They are for example in the care-team during satsangs. How is it possible for one how did study this stuff to fall for such a cheap scam??? Or are they a part of feeding it?


Corboy:
Thank you for the additional material!

It explains to me also how M always comes to repeat the same stories over and over again, regardless of what the initial question was.

Death and Mooji

The death of people are handled differently by how it serves Mooji it seems.

I’ve read long page tributes to Sangha members who die and leave him their estate. Even noting what remarkable members they were and how long they were with Mooji and their contributions and how they left him their money. Then there are simple and quiet announcements, if at all put out about Fran and others. And I’ve heard from other sources as well no one is to speak of him.

So you die around Mooji and it won’t bring him into question and your praised. You die around Mooji and it raises questions you are erased. Seems even ones death is only seen on how will this impact Mooji.

The value of person’s life seems very arbitrary to how it benefits or disadvantages Mooji and sadly so does a person’s death.

How do people process a friends death without being allowed to talk about it with other friends? How do you know what actually happened to him? How do you know how to make sure it doesn’t happen to anyone else? Why doesn’t Fran matter enough to people there to see his life and how he died means something is very very off? How do people there feel safe?

Somewhere in anyone’s mind with any compassion they must realize the same could happen to anyone there. They could be pushed to a limit. And erased. I find it highly disturbing. I feel very bad for Fran and the others who also have died trusting Mooji.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2019 11:33PM by PapajisaysNO.