The article is relevant because the groups, ALL of them,function in much the same way. There is really nothing new about what Mooji is doing.

Most cult members attack the critical person rather than the points they're making. Nothing is wrong with me.

Furthermore, 'leaving' a group is a psychological event rather than a physical one, and many groups can be spread out all over the world but still be internally in a high control environment.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 07:18AM by happytown.

Stop deflecting. You claimed someone was unable to leave. I told you and provided proof that anyone can leave. Can you provide proof that they can't, or will you link me to another article that has nothing to do with Monte Sahaja or Mooji?

It feels like you wanna paint this person into a box in order to fit your narrative surrounding Mooji. But I knew her in real life so it won't work with me.

You also claim this person was in a high control environment living in another country. But she lived by herself, had a job, and even went on nights out with me. She had her own life away from the Sangha. So now explain how she was in a 'high control environment'. Your argument falls apart when presented with facts. What I am saying can be verified by anyone who visited the London Sangha during 2016(thats hundreds of people vs your 0 evidence).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 07:40AM by Applejuice.

Anyone can leave any group, but have you spoken to anyone who's left? Asked them what it feels like? Without filtering everything they say through some idea you have of them as 'lost'?

(I'm speaking to any one in any group reading this).

You are right. Technically anyone can leave, but what are the consequences of leaving? Do members, your former friends, do they treat you the same? They may feel like they do.

As I said, all these groups are the same, so you can ask anyone who left any group.

Being a member of a high demand group doesn't preclude going out on the town, or frequenting Albufeira MacDonalds.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 07:31AM by happytown.

Thank you for finally admitting that any person can leave Monte Sahaja at anytime, and nobody was held against their will. Let's deal with facts not assumptions.

As for people who leave the group, usually they go off on their own way. Some find new teachers, others are finished with gurus. From the few I spoke to after they left, they treated it like a phase in their life that they are no longer connected to. They don't have much to say about Mooji either way. I've certainly never heard any allegations against him.

And people who leave are not usually spoken about. There isn't a code of silence, but their just isn't much to say. It's like leaving one church and finding a new one. You might comment that James or Sarah has left, but beyond that what can you say? They are certainly not ostracised. People have returned and are welcomed back, they are not treated any different because they left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 07:42AM by Applejuice.

Being able to leave any time you like is not the same as the crushing experience of either walking away from, or being discarded by, a high control group to which you have given so much of your life, which you could never imagine being away from.

Regardless of the lack of personal testaments on this page, rest assured the people struggling with this exiting experience, when they come looking for information, know they are not alone.

Of course leaving a group where you live, work, and have personal relationships with people is difficult. What is your point? These are the consequences of living in a commune. That's why I would never live in one. Maybe that's why she left too.

I notice you also shifted the goalposts.

First you said this person was shamed, I told you they were not. They were held in high regard. Then you alleged they were oppressed, I let you know they were very free in their personality. Then you said they couldn't leave, I told you they were paid to go and live in another country. Then you said they were in a high control environment, but I let you know they live alone in another country and had a social life independent of the Sangha. And this can be confirmed by hundreds of people who visited that year. Then you linked me to pages that have nothing to do with Mooji or Monte Sahaja. Now you are talking about testimonies from people who are possibly reading, basically phantom testimonies to prove something false about Mooji and Monte Sahaja.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 08:06AM by Applejuice.

Leaving a high demand group where you have completely devoted yourself to a guru, is not the same as leaving a community.

Leaving a cult, despite how much you may want to leave, is excruciating, and many people think about leaving but cant find a way, just as many leave and go back. As stated in that excellent article about Bhagwan's Devious trap.

All ex-members of a group are shamed by the group. No one is going to be held in high regard if they cut ties. What possible reason could there be to walk away from Jesus? Are you mad or bad? Most people try to keep a low profile, keep in good standing, don't cause waves, quietly slip away, keep your friends. It's the best option, if it's an option. But if you're in deep,often that's not an option.

High demand group dynamics function in similar ways across the board.

Here is another link to something that is not connected to Mooji's circle of influence, because it can't hurt to know about these things if it's not a cult:

[www.geftakysassembly.com]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 08:51AM by happytown.

Applejuice,

I read your first post and I find it fascinating.

It's a little disappointing, however, because you claim to have been around the Mooji scene for 10 years or so and to have close insider information and you have even stayed at Monte Sahaja- yet, the amount of times you say "I have no idea about that" or that you "can't make a comment on that" is overwhelming.

Here is a list of the things you have no information about/can't comment on:

1. People living at the compound having their sex lives covertly monitored.
2. Moo and Krishnabai being more than just good friends.
3. Whether or not Moo shouts aggressively at people.
4. Why Moo does or doesn't travel to India.
5. Moo using trance induction/hypnosis to manipulate people.
6. Why people wear white robes, kiss Moo's feet and worship photos of him.
7. The suicide at the compound.

If you have such close insider information then why can't you just find out about these things yourself? Just ask your friends. Why the need to read everything on this forum and then comment on them here (mainly to say that you can't really comment)?

This forum is actually for people who are concerned about cults.

I for one would like to know- Do you think Moo runs a cult or not?

I feel like you are sitting on the fence, defending him on one hand and being somewhat critical on the other hand. Fair enough, I suppose, you probably haven't made up your mind yet.

I do think it's totally weird that a suicide happened in a group that you have very close associations with and yet you never talked about it to any group members. What's with that? What kind of group doesn't talk about important things like that? Why the silence and secrecy?

It's also very interesting that you claim Moo was a serial monogamist and that his relationships were never secret. You state that none of these women were his devotees, however. Really? Where else would he have met with available females? I mean, does he do online dating or what? He has been a guru for 10 years... it's not like he goes down to the local pub and hangs out.

I think we both know that if Moo has had relationships within the last 10 years, then the women he has 'dated' would have been part of his Satsung scene. They would have been followers. I am open to being corrected on this. If Moo dated the local barista or the local mayor or whatever, then please enlighten us.



.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 11:22AM by Sahara71.

Applejuice:

Can you think of anything wrong with Moo?

Can you name three things you think are wrong with Moo?

How much money does Moo receive through the Mooji group?

Ironic that you posted a link to a critical Geftakys group page.

If you search this message board you will see that it was here that the Geftakys group was exposed by former members regarding certain issues

See [forum.culteducation.com]

Seems like there were apologists years ago defending Geftakys until eventually everything came out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 12:10PM by rrmoderator.

Happytown say what you want. Nobody has been shamed for leaving. You won't find a single post, or hear about someone being shamed. So your articles are of little relevance to this discussion.

Sahara not sure what was confusing about my post, but I will try to clear some things up.

I never stated that Mooji's girlfriends were never his devotees. What I said was that he never preyed on his devotees in the way you describe. Sure some were his devotees, but of the thousands of women he meets each year, as far as I know he's only been with a handful, and they were proper relationships. I just meant Mooji is not known for sleeping around. I don't think you can find a single person who will tell you that Mooji sleeps around. But you can find people who watch videos of him where young ladies are gathered around, and they will be the ones to make up stuff.

Mooji and Krishnabi are not a couple. I'm sorry to burst your fantasy. This is well known inside and outside that she is his personal assistant and he treats her like a daughter. She has devoted her life to him in a way most other devotees don't. Believe me I've asked people close if they are together, I'm assured they are not. And in all honestly why would he need to hide it? Mooji has already announced his celibacy, and I just can't see him giving that up.

I wanted to be fair in my post, so I said I didn't know or could not comment on things that I held little knowledge of. I only speak of things which I know to be true.

That's why I could not comment on the suicide. I'd heard about it, but it never crossed my mind to ask for further info. I didn't know the person, but a lot of other people did and they say good things about the guy. I'll ask someone, and get back to you. But I'm not sure they could offer any further info. They were not inside the man's head, and he didn't leave a suicide note so we can't know what he was feeling. I know of another devotee suicide, but that happened away from Monte Sahaja, and this person had a history of mental illness.

I explained the sex life monitored stuff already. I was there and it's not true. The only thing remotely close is that people generally go to Mooji to discuss their relationships because they trust his advice. I know personally because a friend of mine did the same. Honestly when I was staying there I had relationship trouble, and wanted to speak to Mooji about this. People trust him, so whether you like it or not people will tell him intimate details freely. But if you don't want to talk about something he won't make you.

I already told you the official reason given for Mooji not travelling, and the unofficial reason.

I know you'll be disappointed, but I don't know why people wear white robes. I suppose it has something to do with traditional Indian spirituality? It has a holy vibe. I've always worn my regular clothes, jeans, sportswear, whatever feels most comfortable.

Kissing the masters feet comes from Indian tradition. Someone else in the thread explained it quite well. I got one have never kissed his feet. I've always greeted him with a hug. Never felt compelled to get down and do it, I don't think he really likes it. Believe me, people of their own volition go up with the intention of kissing his voice. You'll have to ask them directly why they do it.

I think I've already gave my opinion about the trance, and said yes it's a kind of trance, but for a 'positive' reason which is to relax the mind. That's why you feel so peaceful watching it. He doesn't put you in a trance, then tries to make you send him money or carry out a strange action. No, you just do the invitation, then carry on with your life.

I've already explained the photos part. Remember my example of people questioning the photos etc? It feels like genuinely think Mooji told them to hang his photo everywhere. People love Mooji's photo, go ask them to take it down. They won't lol.

I gave my opinion on shouting. In my 10 years of being around Mooji, and this includes in multiple countries and in private settings away from the camera I've never heard him shout. I mean not at his followers in a rude way. But I'm also not a disciple that travels everywhere with him, so I don't see everything that goes on. Therefore if he shouts it's probably a rare occurrence. He certainly doesn't go around shouting at people like a madman, which I feel is what you are trying to portray.

I'm not on the fence. To be clear, I think some of his followers are like sheep with no direction, some aren't. I think Mooji is a great person, but feel over the years his teaching may have declined in quality. And I personally wish he would not allow his follows to take charge of the direction his movement is going in.

For your last question, I already gave my answer. I don't know much about cults, but I don't think Mooji is a cult. He doesn't prey on his devotees for sexual services. He isn't trying to get as rich as possible. During the time I stayed there I had lost my job and they let me stay for free. And I wasn't forced to do seva(work on the land). Mooji doesn't live in a castle on a hill surrounded by bodyguards. Anyone can tell you he regularly walks/drives around and has random conversations with everyone. So I don't see how people claim he acts like a God in Monte Sahaja. I think his appearance in satsang makes it look like Mooji is a lazy fat guy. Anybody who has been to Sahaja can verify he's very active, and working on a project, and sometimes helped physically. He's getting on in age but does what he can.
Nobody is forced or coerced into staying any longer than they want to. People carry their phones and Wi-Fi is available, so they are not cut off from the outside world.

The only thing I think is cult like is the worship. But people choose to worship him, I've never worshipped him, just like many others don't. It would be nice if he actively told people not to worship him, but he doesn't so it's a little frustrating.