Sahara19, the problem is that you are not currently devoting yourself to a spiritual solution to your life's problems. And so you are quoting with mystification something that is not designed for you, or not designed for where you are at the moment.

Like me, you may 'know a bit about spirituality', and it may have appealed to you at an earlier stage. But also like me, you've now rejected it, and so that's where your criticisms are coming from. That's not to excuse Mooji's bad practices, but it's necessary context.

I am in the same position myself but I'm able to see it. A few years ago I was more mentally unstable, but also more desirous of a power greater than myself/a spiritual awakening. So Mooji appealed.

Now things have stabilised for me, largely through non-spiritual means, so the spiritual things which appealed to me back then would seem distant and easily critiqued were I to go back to them. So I don't, and I leave them to the people who need them now, as I once did.

Here's a Mooji video that in my demented state of 2016 I remember really liking: [www.youtube.com]

It is aimed at people who have been with him for the spring satsang in Rishikesh.

What is he saying - anything? Is it just brainwashing, or hot air? Well, rather than hot air, it seemed to me to be a cool breeze, calming my disturbed mind, even if I then needed to do more practical things in the everyday world to actually recover.

Quote
I yam that I yam
Suicides of Mooji followers are not quite the same as student suicides at university. It's more like this: [www.youtube.com]

What? Sorry, don't get it...

My point was that there are a number of people in the word who tragically end their own lives every single day. In the EU it is around 11 per 100,000 each year. The reasons are often a complex mix of many factors.

I myself had a classmate kill herself when I was in Uni. We had worked very closely together. No one had any clue what she was going through. After she took her life it was not clear why she did it. Was the university to blame? The pressure of study? Was it her family? Her boyfriend? Was it an underlying mental illness? Some other trigger that no-one knew? We never knew for sure.

Mooji has thousands of followers, arguably tens or even hundreds of thousands. YES, every suicide case should be looked at carefully and assessed to see what can be done to prevent further suicides. But I am not sure that 1 suicide at a place that has been running for 6 or 7 years that has so many visitors every year is proof that Mooji is a "suicide cult", which is how I have seen it presented.

Anyway... you are right. This forum is not for me. Carry on everyone.

Oh, to keep track, Moo has a disciple named

[anantasatsang.org]

Ananta.[anantasatsang.org]

Quote

ANANTA GARG
Ananta (born, Tapan Garg) is a disciple of spiritual Guru, Shri Mooji. His quest for self-realization began in 1998, at the age of 23.

He spent the initial few years involved with Sri Sri Ravishankar's Art of Living Foundation. At one point, he seriously contemplated becoming a teacher of the Art of Living, but life led him in a different direction when he came across the teachings of Nisargadatta Maharaj and later, Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi and Shri HWL Poonja (Papaji).

He was deeply inspired by Nisargadatta's book "I Am That". He also spent some time with Ramesh Balsekar and occasionally attended his satsangs in Mumbai.

The search for Truth finally led him to his Guru Shri Mooji in January 2009. The instant Ananta met Mooji he felt a deep sense of having come home. He experienced a complete sense of surrender to Mooji and in his Presence, he discovered all that he was seeking. With Mooji's blessings, Ananta has been sharing Satsang since 2013.

Wombat:

Curious about your viewpoint.

Do you think Moo ever does anything wrong?

What mistakes has Moo made that you think should be admitted and/or corrected?

Please name three examples.

How do you think Moo could improve himself?

Quote
Sahara71
The video of Moo performing an exorcism was from his own Moo YouTube channel and was released by the Moo cult, not someone else. If you follow the link that was posted in this thread much earlier, then you will see that the link takes you straight to Moo's channel.

Ive looked and cannot find it. Could you show me? I'm happy to be corrected, but I've just never seen or heard this anywhere.

Quote
rrmoderator
Wombat:

Curious about your viewpoint.

Do you think Moo ever does anything wrong?

What mistakes has Moo made that you think should be admitted and/or corrected?

Please name three examples.


How do you think Moo could improve himself?

Compared to the criticisms posted here I doubt they will measure up, but I think the following are things that could be corrected:

When people come up to express doubt about what he teaches, he sometimes cuts right to trying to get them to use the doubt as a way to apply self-inquiry in much the same way that he would suggest using any strong emotion that comes up. I think that the doubts should be heard out more often.

I think he took way to long to stop people touching his feet. I'm glad he is now discouraging this, but the whole devotion thing has taken on a life of its own. I admit, it's not my thing at all.

I think there is an over reliance on his new method, the Invitation to Freedom, as if its a one stop shop to enlightenment. I think it's a great thing, but suspect that self-discovery may take a bit more than just this. I think he over-simplifies things.

Those would be my top 3 criticisms. My criticisms are clearly more garden variety than the "mooji is a dangerous, trance-inducing, sexually and psychologically abusing suicide cult" angle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2018 12:33AM by Wombat.

Wombat,

Your supposed criticism isn't much.

Based upon your very light critique it seems to me that you are just here as a Moo devotee and apologist.

Wombat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------
> What? Sorry, don't get it...
>
> My point was that there are a number of people in
> the word who tragically end their own lives every
> single day. In the EU it is around 11 per 100,000
> each year. The reasons are often a complex mix of
> many factors.
>
> I myself had a classmate kill herself when I was
> in Uni. We had worked very closely together. No
> one had any clue what she was going through. After
> she took her life it was not clear why she did it.
> Was the university to blame? The pressure of
> study? Was it her family? Her boyfriend? Was it an
> underlying mental illness? Some other trigger that
> no-one knew? We never knew for sure.
>
> Mooji has thousands of followers, arguably tens or
> even hundreds of thousands. YES, every suicide
> case should be looked at carefully and assessed to
> see what can be done to prevent further suicides.
> But I am not sure that 1 suicide at a place that
> has been running for 6 or 7 years that has so many
> visitors every year is proof that Mooji is a
> "suicide cult", which is how I have seen it
> presented.
>
> Anyway... you are right. This forum is not for me.
> Carry on everyone.

The suicide trap around Mooji is the same that there has always been around even notionally benign cults.

The mentally ill, despairing person in a time of psychological crisis initially finds comfort in the cult. They feel love from the guru and love from the group. Life becomes liveable!

They become dependant on the energy and love (or illusion of love) that's in the scene around the guru. They find themselves watching every video and, if geography and finances allow, spending as much time as possible on retreats or at the ashram, in the guru's energy field. The only books, the only teachers that matter for them are the ones that are approved by the guru. The only people that matter for them are other followers, other people who get it.

But then what next? Perhaps they stay in the cult forever. Great! That's quite a small life, but it may suit some people. There are closed religious groups living in isolation all over the world.

But if (perhaps due to their mental issues) they have a falling-out with the cult leader or other powerful cult members, and they are "expelled from paradise", they may well have no professional skills and no career, no money, no house, and damaged relationships with friends and family.

Or perhaps whilst at the ashram they eventually find themselves feeling as mentally ill as ever. Damned in paradise. Even the guru, even the group can't save them from their darkness.

Or maybe experiencing the intense emotions that are stimulated in individuals and collectively during satsang makes their mental illness worse, and the guru's very abstract teachings confuse their already shattered mind.

A closed-off cult can be a dangerous place indeed for a mentally ill person. As I've written earlier, it may also for a time be a liberating and useful place.

I don't know how much blame can be placed on the guru. He didn't create their illness; but he can have a powerful effect on it, for good or bad. At the end of the day they would probably be better off going to college instead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2018 06:21AM by i yam what i yam.

Background.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Wombat Wrote:
>
>
>
> When people come up to express doubt about what he
> teaches, he sometimes cuts right to trying to get
> them to use the doubt as a way to apply
> self-inquiry in much the same way that he would
> suggest using any strong emotion that comes up. I
> think that the doubts should be heard out more
> often.
>


Yes, Wombat! You have really hit the nail on the head.

This is something I have also been trying to explain in more than one way, because it is important. Moo doesn't let people have a voice.

I don't know if you've heard of the term "Advaita Shuffle"? This is when you use Advaita philosophy to negate any question you don't like, by turning it back on the questioner. You can do it with any question at all. Moo does it all the time, you will notice.

If someone has doubts, Moo will say "who is this one who is doubting? Can you just be still and witness them?" The person with the doubts has their mind completely distracted by this line of questioning. Plus, they are in front of the Satsung crowd, so they are under pressure to "get it".

It's disorientating to have your question answered with another question, and it's good showmanship on behalf of the performer, Moo, as well. Now, the adience has there attention firmly off the doubts that were raised and firmly on the poor soul who is under the microscope, because he doesn't "get it."

The Satsung audience giggles with suspense! The show is captivating!

Notice how the intricacies of Advaita are avoided... It's just this one part of Advaita that is used continually - this "self-inquiry" strategy, which should more accurately be called self-negation.

A person is told that their doubts amount to nothing. That their own self amounts to nothing. Their life experience (Moo calls life experience your "story", in order to dsiminish it) amounts to nothing. They are nothing. Nothing at all.

This is thought-reform. It's a type of brainwashing. It's pretty effective on those who are suseptable. It can also cause psychosis, if a person is prone to psychosis. I think that is one reason why we see people who are off the planet in Moo videos....

Once the person is rendered into "nothing" by Moo, he can fill their head with all kinds of nonsense. He can extract their money from them pretty easily, too.

For those who undergo the Advaita Shuffle and are effectively transformed into Moo followers, the process is complete. It doesn't really matter what you tell these people anymore, they will show unswerving devotion to Moo. They will believe anything.... For example, "It's OK to lie for the guru" as one person commented on the Moo section of Gururating.org - I think it was.

This is what happened to me. Had I been present in the cult compound while the brainwashing took place, I think I would have ended up spending years there, incapacitated by thought-reform. As it took place in an environment where Moo did not have total control over me, by way of his minions, the thought-reform process eventually failed with me.

Thank God I didn't suffer psychosis, either.

Wombat,

It's interesting that you question the "Invitation to Freedom" video presentation which has become the centrepiece of the online Moo show.

I went back and watched it just then. It starts out rational, but notice how Moo slows down is speech and talks more and more quietly as the video goes on? His pauses in speech become longer and longer, too. Towards the end, those pauses are really long... and he keeps closing his eyes, like he is getting some kind of divine inspiration....?

I notice that the audience begins to close their eyes, too. They are mirroring him. They answer his repeated, boring questions as though they are in a dream, a trance to be more specific.

This is trance induction.

The long, long pauses, the voice getting softer and softer. Then Moo even has the audacity to say in The Invitation, "this is not hypnosis". It's hypnosis all right! Denying it won't do you much good in a court of law! He waits until people in his audience have already begun to get spaced out, before he says "this is not hypnosis" so they will integrate that idea into their distorted thinking.

Moo gets his audience to repeatedly answer questions about the state of "is-ness" or "one-ness", while they are tranced-out. It doesn't matter how rediculous his questions are, the audience all reply in unison with soft voices "nooooooo". Like zombies!!

He even asks "can the is-ness be manipulated?" The audience answer "nooo".
Pretty scary stuff, when he is actually in the business of manipulating everyone that he can!

Then Moo's voice becomes even softer and he tells them they have just had some kind of transformative experience.

He starts to stare directly into the camera a lot, without saying anything, at this point. It goes on and on a bit; I didn't actually watch it all. The prolonged staring into the camera is part of the trance induction technique. It attempts to create some kind of intimacy with the viewers. No-one normally stares at you like that in normal, everyday life. It's unnerving, of course it is designed to be unnerving.

Moo tries to tell us that we weren't using our 'minds' when we were answering his rediculous and repetitive trance questions, and this is supposed to lead us away from relying on the mind. "Leave your mind behind".

How can you answer a question without using your mind? It's impossible. You need your mind...you can't function rationally without it. But you can function irrationally, without questioning anything, in a trance, which is what Moo wants from his followers.

The reason this video is at the centre of the Online Moo Show is that it quickly converts all those people who are susceptible to trance induction. If the video "The Invitation" really did give us instant enlightenment, then we wouldn't need to go to any retreats, we wouldn't need to watch any more videos and we wouldn't need to buy the Moo books.

We certainly wouldn't need to meet with Moo in person for 150 euros a pop!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2018 07:33AM by Sahara71.