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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Mara Fiota ()
Date: September 11, 2018 02:21AM

swissalyst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The most loyal members (the \"true believers\")
> feel there can be no life outside the context of
> the group.





on this note in particular, what Mooji and other good teachers do is to point THROUGH BELIEF, THROUGH THOUGHT. Through ALL THOUGHT.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: September 11, 2018 07:36AM

Wombat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am disappointed that this forum is not employing
> critical thinking when looking at evidence against
> Mooji. In my view it loses a lot of credibility
> when evidence is not properly evaluated, but is
> instead collated to promote a point of view.
>
> I am referring to Corboy reposting the xivoparig
> material and then selectively reposting the
> comments that support his view, while ignoring my
> comments that it cannot be true as the when, where
> and how do not add up to where Mooji was that
> entire year! Happytown even posted "I think that
> xivoparig knows that the details of their post are
> verifiably false since Mooji spends most of his
> time in Portugal. I think it is further
> distraction and dilution of discussion."
>
> Similarly disturbing is drawing conclusions such
> as this: "The reason Mooji hints that people don't
> read classical Adviata is because he doesn't want
> them to know how he distorts and mis-uses these
> teachings. I'm not suggesting he is illiterate or
> too lazy to read. I am suggesting that he doesn't
> want people to explore any traditional teachings
> at length, he just wants them to blindly follow
> him. Mindlessly." This is pure opinion presented
> as fact. I know for a fact that Monte Sahaja has
> an 'Advaita Library' with hundreds of books from a
> very wide range of authors. Hardly likely that
> Mooji does not want his followers to read books...
>
> I was hoping for proper, measured debate, not a
> witch hunt!


Wombat,
I'm glad you retuned to the conversation. I hope you get something out of it. Of course, there are people here who are "pro Mooji" and people here who are against him. That is the nature of all debates...please do not take offence if people selectively use information to support an argument. This is what happens everywhere, throughout the world. That is what happens in a court-room for example...(something I have fortunately not had direct experience of.)

I will have to go back and re-read xivoparig's comments. I thought she said she met him in London, but she does not say where the rest of her story took place. She says she and others "Followed him." Could she have followed him to Portugal? I don't know. I know he does travel a bit.

I'm glad that Monte Sahaja has a library full of books and I hope the Mooji followers enjoy reading them. For me, personally, I thought Mooji was hinting that it is a waste of time to read books! I also thought he was hinting that we should not share non-dualist philosophy with others, our family and friends, and that we should 'stay quiet' about our discovery (of the 'truth'). I found this suspect....like he thinks we will find people who will talk us out of it, or else we will read something that contradicts what he was saying. That is how I interpreted it. He also says to a lot of people "don't go looking for relationships. Don't look for friends to hang out with." I also found this to be suspicious. Why does Mooji want us to be alone by ourselves, with our own thoughts?

It's not really healthy to be alone all the time, as human beings are designed to be social creatures and our brains respond favourably to social interaction.

This is my interpretation. I am very interested to hear any comments you might have. I welcome any information at all.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Horowitz ()
Date: September 13, 2018 09:22AM

throwaway034829392 reported at Reddit about Mooji in 2015:
I'm hesitant to share these thoughts, but I have a few things to say regarding Mooji. I like him, and I owe a great deal to him, insight-wise. I have no doubt that he is a highly realized person, but I would not say that he is without flaw. I have had the privilege of sitting with him on numerous occasions both in large group satsang and in more intimate settings.
Mooji is a great storyteller and unflinchingly charismatic. He exudes a surreal, almost supernatural peacefulness that attracts people to him. He speaks directly but not forcefully, he gently challenges people to see what is obvious to him.
But he is also a crowd-pleaser, and seems to enjoy playing the guru, the beloved master, showering attention on the many spiritually infantile seekers around him, a large number of which are young women, while often dodging more difficult questions or difficult people. Sometimes he addresses the crowd more than he does the person in front of him, even making fun of them in front of the crowd, and he often goes off on tangents and stories.
He doesn't address people as ego or offer their egobound selves a way out in the form of method or teaching. He just expects people to "get it", the way he did. At most he encourages people to self-inquire, which is in my experience very hard to do right and requires some razor sharp discernment, not available to many novice seekers and people caught up in their own suffering.
In short, he may be highly realized, but he is not a naturally great teacher. He is compassionate, but he also sometimes does not seem to want to make the effort to understand the fears or misconceptions of the person in front of him, and sometimes loses his patience when they don't "just get it". His "teaching" mainly consists of staring people in the eyes and showering the audience with divine energy or whatever it is that happens in his satsangs to make people become so starry-eyed. I've seen people, I know people, who've been following him around for years and seem no closer to self-realization. Instead, they seem hooked on the feel-good energies that he projects. People in the satsang community around him would often complain or joke about when they're with him, everything seems clear, but when they go home and try to live their lives, everything falls apart and they have to come back and see him.
I do not think he has a great interest in being a teacher. He's run off and started a commune in Portugal with his closest followers, and while they're no doubt having a great time together, he's stopped allowing people to come visit him unless they pay for attending his silent retreats. The podcasts and recordings that come out of there seem to be much less about confronting people and bringing them to understanding and more about telling stories and speaking about god and bliss and joy and other cosmic things. Not a lot of his followers seem to challenge him or to take up his challenge and he's outright expressed frustration with their unwillingness to follow his prescription of self-enquiry.
Furthermore, his "lineage" from Papaji is exaggerated at best, whose own lineage from Ramana Maharshi is suspect to say the least. Maharshi appointed or approved no successors, and neither did Papaji. In fact Papaji outright stated that no students of his ever "got it". Mooji no doubt sat with Papaji a few times (there are some movies of him approaching Papaji) and no doubt revere him greatly, but he makes a great show of being connected spiritually to both Papaji and Ramana, always keeping their images close at hand and visible to the audience in satsang. It may be innocent or it may be that he wishes to piggyback to some extent on their renown.
Supposedly he's also wanted for tax dodging in India where he used to hold retreats. I know that his followers run a great business selling not only satsang tickets (they used to call it "taking donations") but also books, DVDs and digital downloads and streams ("online retreats"). He, or some people in his group, are definitely deft enough to capitalize on the great number of people simply wishing to be in his presence.
[www.reddit.com]

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Wombat ()
Date: September 15, 2018 05:18PM

Sahara71 Wrote:
> I will have to go back and re-read xivoparig's
> comments. I thought she said she met him in
> London, but she does not say where the rest of her
> story took place. She says she and others
> "Followed him." Could she have followed him to
> Portugal? I don't know. I know he does travel a
> bit.

I didn't read it like that. And in Portugal, or anywhere else for that matter, I doubt there are sacks to lay behind in their main hall for a nap because there are so many people around and nowhere to sleep. There other details as well that are easy enough to falsify, but I'd rather not go into it.

> I'm glad that Monte Sahaja has a library full of
> books and I hope the Mooji followers enjoy reading
> them. For me, personally, I thought Mooji was
> hinting that it is a waste of time to read books!
> I also thought he was hinting that we should not
> share non-dualist philosophy with others, our
> family and friends, and that we should 'stay
> quiet' about our discovery (of the 'truth'). I
> found this suspect....like he thinks we will find
> people who will talk us out of it, or else we will
> read something that contradicts what he was
> saying. That is how I interpreted it. He also says
> to a lot of people "don't go looking for
> relationships. Don't look for friends to hang out
> with." I also found this to be suspicious. Why
> does Mooji want us to be alone by ourselves, with
> our own thoughts?
>
> It's not really healthy to be alone all the time,
> as human beings are designed to be social
> creatures and our brains respond favourably to
> social interaction.

What I see here is that you have heard a few things but are not deeply familiar with what Mooji says about them. Mooji says not to go looking for relationships, but he is not anti-relationships at all. Actually, he often says that relationships are a natural part of life and that many beautiful relationships also happen among his followers. But if your focus in life is looking for a relationship then it can be a distraction to self-discovery... I take it to mean that if you are going to Satsang but instead of listening and following his teachings you are looking around the hall for your next partner, then you might be missing the point. The little time I have had with his followers, I have to say that they seem to to have wonderful friendships so I don't think he ever said not to have friends... I've never heard that anyway.

The 'keep quiet' thing doesn't mean never talk to anyone. It means to keep quiet inside. It means don't go running around telling people you are enlightened just because you have had a profound experience -- well thats how I see it anyway. Some experiences need time to settle before we are able to articulate them. I think he is just trying to avoid people trying to run before they can walk, so to speak.

I know I sound like what the moderator called an apologist, but you did ask so I hope its okay.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: September 15, 2018 11:19PM

Wombat:

Do you have anything critical to say regarding Mooji?

What has he done that you have a problem with regarding his personal conduct and conduct?

Please give me some examples of Mooji mistakes per your observation.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 16, 2018 03:59AM


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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: alonzo ()
Date: September 16, 2018 06:08AM

Hi, Do you know where I can find the youtube video of the women you mentioned in your post. I spent a lot of time at monte sahaja and found some disturbing things. I am interested to hear what the women had to say.

This is what you wrote...……….. "The woman who first came forward with sexual allegations has posted elsewhere on YouTube too, saying that she is very lost and unhappy, that she is home from Monte Sahaja now, but still confused and scared. Her friends are rejecting her because she has changed. I personally don't think that she is a troll. I think she is traumatised. I have worked with people who have undergone trauma. It is so sad".

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: September 16, 2018 09:37AM

alonzo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, Do you know where I can find the youtube
> video of the women you mentioned in your post. I
> spent a lot of time at monte sahaja and found some
> disturbing things. I am interested to hear what
> the women had to say.
>
> This is what you wrote...……….. "The woman who
> first came forward with sexual allegations has
> posted elsewhere on YouTube too, saying that she
> is very lost and unhappy, that she is home from
> Monte Sahaja now, but still confused and scared.
> Her friends are rejecting her because she has
> changed. I personally don't think that she is a
> troll. I think she is traumatised. I have worked
> with people who have undergone trauma. It is so
> sad".

Hi Alonzo,

This is the original conversation, preserved here on a blog. It was deleted from YouTube a while back.

[chi-ting.blogspot.com]

The article is called "explosive sexual politics from the court of King Tony".

Can you tell us the things that concerned you while you were at Monte Saharja?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2018 09:46AM by Sahara71.

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: Sahara71 ()
Date: September 16, 2018 11:03AM

Horowitz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> throwaway034829392 reported at Reddit about Mooji
> in 2015:
>
>
His "teaching" mainly consists of staring
> people in the eyes and showering the audience with
> divine energy or whatever it is that happens in
> his satsangs to make people become so starry-eyed.
> I've seen people, I know people, who've been
> following him around for years and seem no closer
> to self-realization. Instead, they seem hooked on
> the feel-good energies that he projects. People in
> the satsang community around him would often
> complain or joke about when they're with him,
> everything seems clear, but when they go home and
> try to live their lives, everything falls apart
> and they have to come back and see him.
>
> [www.reddit.com]

Yes, I'm very concerned about this. Moo seems to teach some kind of instant enlightenment through self-inquiry.... but people aren't becoming enlightened through this teaching.... It's more like they are becoming dependent!

It's a kind of escapism.... going to an ashram and hanging off someone's every word. It's not healthy at all.

They return home and can't even cope with reality. So they go running back to Moo!

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Re: Mooji a cult?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 16, 2018 07:35PM

And, it could be that over the years, Moo has become more controlling of his followers because he's less able to function in an adult capacity.

Look at the guru life Moo now lives...he's waited on by an entourage. He lives in settings where the entire day revolves around him. Only those who pay large sums of money and believe in him get to stay there with him

He can ignore any question he cannot answer.

Its all the advantages of living as an adored child but with full access to all adult pleasures and no need to pay taxes.

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