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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: nowthewiser ()
Date: May 14, 2017 08:48AM

By the way, I have been reading the FB page, and I have absolutely no idea who Phoenix086 is. I had no idea he (I'm guessing it's a he but who knows) had the "real name" so close to the one I chose. Sheer, actual coincidence. Again you guys are making so many assumptions.

Also I may bow out of reading or responding to all of this. It is genuinely triggering to my PTSD which I am still working through.

And FFS. I know of several people that came away from her with trauma and have been diagnosed by therapists they see regularly as having PTSD from the experience. And off the top of my head can think of numerous others that know it to be a cult. Why keep assuming it's just one person or a couple on a personal vendetta?




Oh yeah. Narcissism.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: Lb ()
Date: May 14, 2017 04:11PM

I am sorry Nowthewiser that you dismiss what I say, by dismissing me as a cult follower.

I am not following Uma in the way you describe of yourself. I am no ones follower, rather I engage with different teachers, of different origin and with different teachings.
I have never heard her say that she is Truth herself and I never thought of her as such.
I also never heard her claiming that the changes in my life where hers and not mine. This kind of concept did not arise in my contact with her.

The practice of self-awareness and resulting empowerment of self-responsibility, I have learned long ago with other teachers. This has given me much greater freedom, because by learning that I have the power and ability to chose how I perceive, process and react to what ever is coming at me from the outside (or inside for that matter), I have stopped being a powerless victim of my life’s circumstances, and/ or my own programed conditioning. I have never used self-responsibility as means to blame others and deflect from my own responsibility (like you imply that Uma did), neither have I seen Uma do this. Also have I not seen it used as an excuse/method by Uma to keep someone in an abusive situation.

You don’t know what it is to stand in my place, because I cannot recognize myself in how you describe yourself when you where “following” Uma.
I am sorry that you where “being deeply influenced by someone that you are ultimately trusting to know you better than you do.”
And here lies a difference between my and your relating to Uma. I am not trusting her to know me better that I do, I always listen to my own resonance, my own intuition. That is the only sane and healthy way to allow feedback about something that I may have not been previously aware of, or what I find painful to hear. And again, this I learned way before meeting Uma.

“Sovereignty. That's the word. And I thought I had during the times I spent around Uma, but I was existing in a reality construct that was not actually real.”
Again I cannot relate to this experience during my time with Uma, but I do recall bouts of feeling of Sovereignty when I was young and used the transforming experiences and empowerment I felt by being with my teachers, as a way to feel my self superior and untouchable, which was indeed an illusional bubble, but one of my own creation.

“So, yeah, I dismiss what you say, because you're actually not in your right mind. And it may take you years to see that, and you may not want to, and I guess that's ok though I feel sad for the actual freedom you'll miss.”
I am sad that you felt that you where not in your right mind and you missed actual freedom, at least that is what I conclude from the above quote you project onto me.
I am also getting a deeper sense of who you are, how you related to Uma and what happened with you during your time with her. And even more strongly now, I would recommend you to work it out with her, with a neutral and capable mediator/psychologist (or your own therapist) present.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: Lb ()
Date: May 14, 2017 05:52PM

Thank you rrmoderator for your questions and attention.

“Again, can you think of anything Uma Inder has said or done that is wrong?”
I can’t. I don’t say that she never does anything wrong, she probably does, like everyone else, but I cannot think of anything I have seen or experienced that I thought of as wrong.
Actually, one thing comes to mind: when I sat with her and other students after yoga class, I thought a few times that she shouldn’t keep giving so much, pouring love and attention, answering questions tirelessly. I thought than that she must also think of herself more. I did say that to her.

“What negative experiences have occurred to others that you think are Uma Inder's responsibility?”
I do not know of negative experiences of others that are Uma Inder’s responsibility. She is responsible for her own actions, as others are for theirs. To determine the responsibilities of any given occurrence, you have to look into what happened and who was responsible for what.

“Is any of the criticism directed at Uma Inder valid? If so please explain how you see it as being valid and meaningful.”
Truthful criticism is not only valuable and meaningful, but also essential for growth (this would include criticism directed towards Uma Inder), while it can be painful when it hits mark. However, the allegations, which are posted here, do not qualify, in my opinion, as sincere criticism, because they miss accuracy and are defamatory in the way they are voiced. Therefor I do not find them valid and meaningful as a criticism.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: nowthewiser ()
Date: May 14, 2017 08:51PM

Oh, and I hear you about her being willing to see any perspective. I saw that, too, in fact she is masterful about that.

EXCEPT when it's a view that is genuinely and intelligently critical of her.

Other words that came to mind that she's used to describe students: rank, lame, foul, swine, dog. I'll keep em coming as they come to me.

And I hear you saying that simply being called those kinds of things by someone you're in a teacher-student relationship with shouldn't have negative effect, or that any negative effect is based on past conditioning? Check your reality, Lb. Something's amiss.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: May 14, 2017 10:13PM

Lb:

So your only critique of Uma Inder is "that she shouldn’t keep giving so much."

Excuse me, but that is not criticism, but rather you building her up and promoting her here.

You say that you have "other teachers."

Who are these teachers specifically. Please name them and where they are located.

Have any of these teachers specifically contradicted what Uma Inder has taught or said?

Please name the teacher specifically thas has specifically contradicted what Uma Inder has taught or said per your experience.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: nowthewiser ()
Date: May 14, 2017 10:49PM

Lb, you continue to place responsibility for my experience on only me, not understanding that this was a co-created dynamic, absolutely and completely fostered by the culture that Uma created (& demanded) around herself, and that I bought into.

She did actually say she is Truth. And Nature itself. And Kundalini. And Kali. And Death itself. And Source. I am not making those up.

And she did actually demand that we give credit to her when someone recognized some positive change in us. To fail to do so resulted in humiliation.

When I talk about trusting her to know me more than myself...I saw, for example, her tell people what their motivations are. And if they resisted and said that wasn't true, they were lambasted with harsh words and talks about how they are in doubt and how if she's not Truth to them, it won't work.

I see you taking pity on me. Please stop. You are holding yourself in a superior place. It's the same kind of benign superiority that is so prevalent in cult environments and many spiritual-leaning people.

I don't regret anything that happened. It hurt like hell, and was a serious mind-fuck, but I am glad for what I have grown into because of it.

It sounds like maybe Uma has changed her tune. If so, that's a good thing. It also sounds like you weren't/aren't in deep enough to be on the receiving end of the abusive shit. So what I am doing is warning you. It can get nasty in there. In a way that can be really psychologically damaging.

On that note, I'm not saying Uma suggested others to stay in abusive situations. I'm saying Uma creates abusive situations and calls people "pussies" for crying about it. And suggests that the rest of the world is "living a lie" and that you are choosing the lie if you walk away from her, ie Truth.

Again it sounds like you weren't exposed to these things. So how about you stop assuming others' experiences are wrong or that they were just lesser humans who don't get how to do spiritual student-ism the "right" way.

I have no interest in talking to Uma. Every person I have seen try has been met with anything but listening or true reception or acknowledgment. It feels futile. Which is why I'm glad people are speaking about the other side of Uma Inder.

Why did you come on to this board, anyway? It does feel like it's what rrmoderator was saying...you came to be an apologist or (subtly, "compassionately") attack anyone who speaks ill of Uma.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: Lb ()
Date: May 15, 2017 03:34PM

Rrmoderator,
Those questions are not relevant in order to determine the character and integrity of Uma Inder, or if she has or not has abused anybody. I am getting the feeling that you are not really interested in my experiences with her.
What might be relevant: I am not interested in ideologies or dogmas. Whatever any of those teachers have said is relevant in the context it has been said, to whom, where and when. Which means that there are many contradictions between them and even in the words spoken by the same person.
One of the components, which they all have in common, and which I consider essential, is the emphasis on accepting ourselves in all our facets, as a base to know ourselves.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: Lb ()
Date: May 15, 2017 03:44PM

Nowthewiser
“Rank, lame, foul, swine, dog” This is not how I know Uma. I would not accept to be called those names.
And you are correct when you assume that I have neither received nor seen the kind of abuse you are describing in your posts, nor heard Uma calling herself by the terms that you state she did.
But you are not correct when you assume that I take pity on you, or that I assume that your experience is wrong, because “you are lesser and don’t get spiritual student-ism right” as you put it. I also do not place the responsibility for your negative experiences only on you. I cannot know, I was not present in any of the kind of situation you describe.
From what I gather from your account, is that there were more people present in the events you refer to..
I think it would contribute to this discussion to hear them.
I, also think, that at this point it would be beneficial if you could state your case here, of how you got PTSD as a result of your contact with Uma Inder clearly and accurately, and ask those other victims you know of to do the same. I really think this would bring much more clarity into the discussion.

I came on this board because I cannot match the things you describe here, with my own experiences, to understand what happened and to communicate my own experiences as a contribution to this thread.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: May 15, 2017 09:40PM

Lb:

You seem to be saying because you have not experienced anything negative, nothing negative could be happening in the Uma Inder group.

However, others directly contradict your personal experience.

You have only positive seemingly promotional things to say about Uma Inder. And frankly, you seem to be here on behalf of Uma Inder to defend the group.

You cite nothing negative or critical about Uma Inder as if Inder is perfect and without any fault or responsibility for anyone having a negative experience concerning the group, its teachings and practices.

Doesn't seem like you are interested in any meaningful discussion and/or exchange of ideas, experiences etc.

You are here to defend Uma Inder and are apparently trolling this thread on behalf of Uma Inder.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: jh ()
Date: July 16, 2017 06:07AM

I haven't been on this site for a long time but want to say I am certainly not the same person as phoenix or nowthewiser. I have not been masquerading as different people.

LB, as you say you met Uma 3 years ago, I think perhaps you were around Uma and the group at a later time, or not close enough to Uma and the the group to see or be privy to the experiences being described by others, which I think fall somewhere into a rough time frame of 2011-2015. It makes sense to me they wouldn’t make sense to you nor would you recognise what is being described. From what I saw, some people were closely entwined in the group and others were on the sidelines. Perhaps you weren’t intensely there in the group meetings in Bali, or on the online forum which was running through those years? It is, I feel, of course, always ok that you have a differing experience of Uma and the group, either within those years people have described experience of here, or after.

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