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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: jh ()
Date: September 27, 2016 02:50PM

I can't find anything on the google group, they are probably private.

This is what I found on the other forum by googling "svakul reality check" -

http://website.informer.com/visit?domain=realitycheck.svakul.com]Reality Check Svakul[/url]

The text on front page says :

Reality Check
A Kundalini Research Project

A forum for the naked truth - This forum is a living work that thrives through active participation from us. It needs to be fed. If you’re merely observing posts on this forum without actually responding with reflections or offering up what is true for you, you’re likely not digesting what is offered here...and what doesn’t get digested becomes toxic. The moderators will go through the list of forum members every month or so and remove those who haven’t participated in recent weeks.

"If you fear that what you get is not what you need....Take heed. What you get has nothing to do with what you think you need. Which is why what you get only starts when you relax into what is. What is, is what happens when you allow it ALL to be. You forget too easily the bliss beyond duality. The whole new way of being beyond hard or soft. That you ride into when you allow me to be whatever it takes. To reveal the choice you can make. Between Free and your compression into 2-D." Umaa

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 27, 2016 09:39PM

Man alive, what a scold. Sounds like Nightmare Nanny.

Does tantric discipleship mean we become the guru's property, to be used, mauled
and disposed of?

Anyone not trustful of Uma would say "Yuck!" and walk away.

Friends,

How does Uma get people to trust her so that they ignore misgivings and become willing to to obey this New Age nagging?

Are Uma's introductory classes like this?

Do her disciples describe her this way when chatting up possible new recruits?

Most of us, if we arrive in (say) Bali, or some other lovely
destination, especially a spiritual destination, do not go looking for misery,
terror and betrayal.

We are looking for love, friendship, looking for opportunities to bring out
what is best in us. To see the best in others.

Wanting to see the best in others is what makes us decent, kindly and trusting human beings.

If we are spiritual seekers we do not (Ken Wilber to the contrary) lose our
human right to call cruelty cruelty. We do not as spiritual seekers lose our right to trust our gut and leave when we feel shocked, disgusted or scared.

Above all, we do not lose our human right to be told up front and in full, what will be demanded of us after we have become emotionally and socially invested.

We are human beings, persons.

We are not not mere energy donors.

Our personalities and our boundaries are just as valid as those of the guru.

Someone who feeds on energy and does not reciprocate -- and calls us egotistical and toxic because we take exception to this:

That is scary.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2016 09:43PM by corboy.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: Phoenix086 ()
Date: September 28, 2016 12:47PM

Thanks for that text Jh. And interesting view corby.

Uma is quite good on releasing baits by feeding the sense of there is something beyond that is I and that is because of her. I think she truly believes it. And the fact that she needs feeding from all these chaotic at times violent energy perhaps is best to be seen as a reflection of her inner landspace. Chaotic, false, self serving, narcissm, ungrounded.

She's quick to throw abuse disguised as lessons but is unable to self reflect or open to the probability of truth and duality of what is but her own. Sad distorted woman. Interestingly I think she also tried to use her child, again something she sees as an extension of her rather than his own being as another story of her mystic , power and even encourage everyone to devote just as much to him as her. Yet accept some sexual feeling that rose up towards the child rather than seen as a red alert. How alarming.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 28, 2016 08:26PM

(Quoted from below)

Quote

"the cult leader unconsciously experiences his dependency needs as so deeply shameful that a delusion of omnipotence is developed to ward off the toxic shame. I...The leader can then express his unconscious self-loathing through his "compassion" (often thinly disguised contempt) for his followers’ weakness. Manically proclaiming his own perfection, the leader creates a program of "purification" for the follower."

(Sources of informativematerial come and go on the internet. To preserve
accessibility of these texts for future visitors to CEI's message board, I like
to reproduce the full text or sizable excerpts whenever possible -- C.)

Daniel Shaw was disciple of Gurumayi, leader of SYDA yoga, Fallsberg New York.

When he he studied to become a social worker, he woke up to the
abuses of Gurumayi and left. He is now in practice as a psychoanalyst.

excerpt from "Traumatic Abuse in Cults: A Psychoanalytic Perspective"

by Daniel Shaw, L.C.S.W.

[prem-rawat-talk.org]

Quote

The Psychopathology of the Cult Leader

Thought reform, or mind control, is another important component of my conceptualization of the seductive power of cults, although it is not a psychoanalytic concept. The psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton (1987) studied the methods used by the Chinese Communists during the Korean War to turn war prisoners into willing accomplices, and called these methods thought reform (see also Hinkle & Wolff, 1976; Schein, 1956; Singer, 1979). Thought reform techniques are readily found in use in any cult, yet it is my belief, based on my own exposure to and study of various cults, that many cult leaders are not necessarily students of thought reform techniques. One might argue that meditation and chanting, for example, are techniques specifically designed to control others, and they can be. But they are also ancient traditional spiritual practices. Cult leaders who require their followers to perform mind-numbing, trance-inducing practices may do so while fully believing that such practices are for the greatest possible good of the follower.

In religious philosophies that emphasize detachment and transcendence, for instance, trance states are highly valued as avenues toward these spiritual goals. Such religious "surrender"—to a sense of one’s wholeness, one’s connectedness to life, to a loving and creative spirit both within and without—is not necessarily the same experience as submission to the domination, control, and exploitation of a particular group and/or leader. The urge to surrender, as understood by Ghent (1990), a leading theorist of contemporary relational psychoanalysis, can be a move toward inner freedom, and does not necessarily lead to submission, or enslavement.

Cult leaders, however, practice forms of control, such as intimidation and humiliation, which demand submission. In Ghent’s view, masochistic submission is a perversion of surrender.

Cult leaders often use the idea of surrender as bait, and then switch to a demand for submission. Nevertheless, in so doing, they may not actually be practicing mind control in any conscious way. They may simply be behaving in ways typical of pathological narcissists, people whose personalities are characterized by paranoia and megalomania—characteristics, by the way, that are readily attributable to one of the modern masters of thought reform techniques, the totalitarian dictator known as Chairman Mao.

Totalitarian dictators study and invent thought reform techniques, but many cult leaders may simply be exhibiting characteristic behaviors of the pathological narcissist, with the attendant paranoia and mania typical of this personality disorder. Thought reform is the systematic application of techniques of domination, enslavement, and control, which can be quite similar to the naturally occurring behaviors of other abusers, like batterers, rapists, incest perpetrators, in all of whom can be seen the behaviors of pathological narcissism.

I base my formulation of the psychology of the cult leader in part on the daily close contact I had with Swami Chidvilasananda (Gurumayi) of Siddha Yoga between 1985 and 1992. I also support my hypotheses with information gained from extensive work with psychotherapy clients who have described their cult leaders’ behavior in detail, as well as on my extensive reading of biographical accounts of other leaders of cults.

I propose, following the profile of the pathological narcissist delineated by Rosenfeld (1971), a leading figure of the contemporary Kleinian school in London, and similar formulations from the American self psychological perspective of Kohut (1976), that the cult leader profoundly depends on the fanatic devotion of the follower. This dependency is deeply shameful to the cult leader, because, based on traumatic aspects of her own developmental history, any dependency has come to mean despicable weakness and humiliation to her. (Italics by Corboy for emphasis) Developmental trauma in those who in later life can be termed pathological narcissists typically consists of being raised, by parents or other caregivers, under extreme domination and control, accompanied by repeated experiences of being shamed and humiliated. The pathological narcissist identifies with this aggression and comes to despise his own normative dependency, to be contemptuous of dependence, which is equated to weakness. Manically defending against deprivation and humiliation, he comes to believe that he needs no one, that he can trust only himself, that those who depend on others are weak and contemptible. Thus the cult leader, largely unconsciously, compensates for his inability to trust and depend on others, and defends against the intense shame he feels connected to need and dependency, by attaining control over his followers, first through seductive promises of unconditional love and acceptance, and then through intimidation, shaming, and belittling. This serves to induce the loathsome dependency in the follower, and the cult leader thus contrives to disavow his own dependency, felt as loathsome and shameful. By psychologically seducing, and then battering the follower into being the shameful dependent one, the cult leader maintains his superior position and can boast delusionally of being totally liberated from all petty, mundane attachments. These processes of subjugating others, and inducing in others what one loathes and seeks to deny in oneself are extreme forms of manic defense against the shame of dependency.

In fact, the cult leader does not escape dependency. Instead, he (and also, in many cases, she) comes to depend on his followers to worship and adore him, to reflect his narcissistic delusion of perfection to him as does the mirror to the Evil Queen in the tale of Snow White. One of the ways in which this perversion of dependency is often enacted can be observed when the cult leader claims that because he needs nothing, he is entitled to everything. Thus, cult leaders claiming to be pure and perfect, without any need or attachment, use manic defenses to rationalize and justify their dependence on extravagant and grandiose trappings such as thrones, fleets of Rolls Royces, and the trust funds of their wealthy followers.

For the cult leader, his ability to induce total dependence in followers serves to sustain and enhance a desperately needed delusion of perfect, omnipotent control.

With many cult leaders, (e.g., Shoko Asahara [Lifton, 1999]), the dissolution of their delusion of omnipotence exposes an underlying core of psychosis. Sustaining a delusion of omnipotence and perfection is, for the cult leader, a manic effort to ward off psychic fragmentation. Again it is useful to consider that this kind of pathological narcissism and defensive mania is often seen in persons whose childhood development was controlled by extremely dominating, often sadistic caregivers, or whose developmental years were characterized by traumatic experiences of intense humiliation.

Cult leaders then create elaborate rationalizations for their abusive systems, while unconsciously patterning those systems from the templates of their own experiences of being abused.

Cult leaders succeed in dominating their followers because they have mastered the cruel art of exploiting universal human dependency and attachment needs in others. The lengthy period of dependency in human development, the power that parents have, as God-like figures, to literally give life and sustain the lives of their children, leaves each human being with the memory, however distant or unconscious, of total dependency. Cult leaders tap into and re-activate this piece of the human psyche.

Followers are encouraged to become regressed and infantilized, to believe that their life depends on pleasing the cult leader. Cult leaders depend on their ability to attract people, often at critically vulnerable points in their lives, who are confused, hungry, dissatisfied, searching. With such people, cult leaders typically find numerous ways to undermine their followers’ independence and their capacity to think critically.

In a religious cult, the leader is perceived as a deity who is always divinely right, and the devotee, always on the verge of being sinfully wrong, comes to live for the sole purpose of pleasing and avoiding displeasing the guru/god. The leader's displeasure comes to mean for the member that he is unworthy, monstrously defective, and, therefore, dispensable. The member has been conditioned to believe that loss of the leader's "grace" is equivalent to loss of any value, goodness, or rightness of the self. As the member becomes more deeply involved, his anxiety about remaining a member in good standing increases. This anxiety is akin to the intense fear, helplessness, loss of control and threat of annihilation that Herman, in her discussion of psychological domination, describes as induced in victims of both terrorists and battering husbands:

The ultimate effect of these techniques is to convince the victim that the perpetrator is omnipotent, that resistance is futile, and that her life depends upon winning his indulgence through absolute compliance. The goal of the perpetrator is to instill in his victim not only fear of death but also gratitude for being allowed to live. (Herman, 1992, p. 77)

Extending this formulation to cult leaders and followers, the cult leader can be understood as needing to disavow her dependency and expel her dread of psychic dissolution, which she succeeds in doing insofar as she is able to induce that dependency and fear in the follower. The bliss that cult members often display masks their terror of losing the leader’s interest in them, which is equivalent for the follower to "a fate worse than death."

Herman's motivation for writing Trauma and Recovery was to show the commonalities between rape survivors and combat veterans, between battered women and political prisoners, between the survivors of vast concentration camps created by tyrants who rule nations, and the survivors of small, hidden concentration camps created by tyrants who rule their homes. (Herman, 1992, p. 3).
Tyrants who rule religious cults subject members to similar violations.

To recapitulate, from a psychoanalytic perspective, the cult leader unconsciously experiences his dependency needs as so deeply shameful that a delusion of omnipotence is developed to ward off the toxic shame. It is urgent to the pathological narcissist, who knows unconsciously that he is susceptible to extreme mortification (the sense of "death" by shame), that this delusion of omnipotence be sustained. Manic defenses help sustain the delusion, but in addition, followers must be seduced and controlled so that the loathsome dependence can be externalized, located in others and thereby made controllable. The leader can then express his unconscious self-loathing through his "compassion" (often thinly disguised contempt) for his followers’ weakness. Manically proclaiming his own perfection, the leader creates a program of "purification" for the follower.

By enlisting the follower to hold the shame that he projects and evacuates from his own psyche, the cult leader rids himself of all shame, becoming, in effect, "shameless." He defines his shamelessness as enlightenment, liberation, or self-actualization.

It becomes important to the cult leader, for the maintenance of his state of shamelessness on which his psychic equilibrium depends, that there be no competition, that he alone, and no one else in the group, feels shameless.

So while apparently inviting others to attain his state of perfection (shamelessness) by following him, the cult leader is actually constantly involved in inducing shame in his followers, thereby maintaining his dominance and control.

I have called this sadomasochistic danse macabre the "dark side of enlightenment" (see Shaw, 2000)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2016 09:26PM by corboy.

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We do not choose cannot choose to suspend critical thinking
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 30, 2016 09:24PM


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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: Phoenix086 ()
Date: October 01, 2016 11:49AM

Oh and I know for a fact she's had sex with at least 3 of her students. Especially so and still ripe with her sidekick Mateo

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: jh ()
Date: October 12, 2016 03:43AM

No her intro / yoga classes were not like that, from what I saw things got more complicated when you went deeper and spent more time with her and the group, especially long periods of time, on a longer private training or on the forums. They also hung out in cafes for long periods of times and at umas home. People passing through quickly for a few classes at the yoga studio wouldn't have had much of an issue I don't think.

From what I saw, other people's spiritual experiences were touted as being "Uma", not the individual experiencer experiencing the divine but it was all always Uma. This was generally how people chatted it all up to be. Odd. This constant focus on her.

Phoenix, That is a truly shocking statement about her child.

Corboy, the Daniel Shaw writing is extremely extremely insightful.

I've been in contact with some others who have left. Some of them I knew so I am relieved about that. I too hope more people come forwards and speak out.

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Re: Uma Inder , Umaa
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 12, 2016 09:40AM

There's a proverb somewhere that our personalities are each unique but that in the spiritual dimension we are all the same.

No one is more exalted than others; no one is inferior. It is shared, like the air we breathe.

To call one's spiritual attainment "Uma" (or give someone or something else all the credit) is as ludicrous as to trademark oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide.

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A parallel with blood donation
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 12, 2016 11:10PM

The thing about being a guru is that gurus can, through the guru role itself and their own social skills, and business savvy, assemble large numbers of obedient persons to gather in one locale focus all attention on the guru and behave cooperatively in ways that liberate large quantities of emotional energy into the atmosphere, an energy donation the guru claims to own but has
merely elicited and then bounced back toward the audience.

Only war leaders, sports teams, successful political organizers and rock stars are capable of assembling such large assemblies of human energy donors. (Ditto for organizers of the hooligan mobs. For first hand descriptions of the energy experiences unleashed within mobs, get and read "Among the Thugs" by Bill Buford.)

Guruing is a business model and it is simiuataneously a social technique for creating scenarios designed to recruit and assemble human energy donors, purveyers of what psychologists term "emotional supplies." The guru then uses various ways to get disciples and onlookers to discharge their emotional and physical energy in a coordinated manner. It is not for nothing that athletes refer to the home field advantage.

Uncanny and remarkable emotional/physical events and even visions are unleashed in these types of social environments.

Rock stars have told many a time how they themselves go into a special zone when they pick up an audience's energy, such as Angus Young of AC/DC. He's full of aches and pains, been so for years. But when he encounters that energy pool created by his fans massed in a stadium, Angus becomes the Viking Berzerker, dancing in ways beyond what most teenagers can do.

But, Angus and the men of AC/DC do not tell us they have a pathway to the divine. AC/DC does not tell you that that you're needy, inferior to them.

They leave us invigorated and we go home with that extra energy from them, while AC DC has earned a living and gained new insights from us.

It is a fair exchange. No one is drained white and thrown away.

To the energy gurus out there:

You want energy donation from us, you need to give a fair mutually recognized exchange. You need us.

That is how the world wags.

(Somber) Thirty years ago, a nurse told me that many patients with leukemia
and chronic anemias looked to be in glowing health, with rosy complexions.

The truth was, those patients would have been ghastly pale but were kept going because they received frequent transfusions of blood from healthy donors

The roses in their cheeks were not their own but borrowed from their blood donors.

It was a fair exchange, just like the AC/DC concert.

The blood was donated consensually, one pint at a time. A multitude of donors provided what was needed. The blood was paid for by NHS or privately, or given by family and friends who were volunteers. The donation process was designed so that no one donor was debilitated.

Donors were given aftercare - replenishing drinks and food and monitored
to ensure they could get home safely - rather than being bled white then kicked
off the table, left to struggle home alone and forbidden to whinge.

Will a shakti or tantric guru treat you with the same candor and care as blood donors are given, eh?

How do we know that a shakti guru is actually in blooming spiritual health that is his or her own?

The recruiters are usually bubbly and happy. They'd scare people away if they were traumatized wrecks. We trust people who are energized, happy and give a guru the credit for it.

But what if a guru is just an ordinary bloke who blazes with vitality not because he is adept at energy cultivation but expert at energy appropriation?
.
And, what if the guru who claims to teach energy cultivation, who glows as he or she says so, is actually psychologically/spiritually a chronic invalid who needs vast quantities of vitality from many donors -- to the point of draining donors dry and requiring a constant supply of new energy donors.

How many would keep company with such a guru if they knew how many others
had been sent away, pale, shaking, chilled to the bone? The recruiters who sing the guru's praises will look happy and healthy. You trust them because you're not paranoid and because you have not yet been scammed.

Your recruiter may not know that he or she may later join the ranks of those whom the guru has blend and discarded.

Soooo....when deciding whether to entrust ourselves to an energy guru, we need to keep in mind that we are energy donors and **already have something of value.**

We have love, trust, and if young, the freshness that comes with curiosity and innocence. These are precious. And, sad to say, many of us when young do not realize the extent to which we are wealthy. We are so easily scammed by jaded, greedy types who have cultivated charisma and social charm so as to conceal an inner wretchedness and an endless hunger for energy donors.

Types like this need our energy, need it in such proportions that they cannot
pay for it. Instead they trick us to believe that we are lacking and they have what we need.

Based on what your disciples tell us when we are newly arrived, we see their vitality and trust that you will energize us -- that we will be SHARING our surplus energy with what you claim as your surplus energy.

We trust, based on what you look like, based on your energy display, that you yourself are eager to share your surplus with our surplus.
'
We trust based on what you and your disciples tell us, that you are healthy, not that you are secretly suffering from a chronic spiritual anemia and that we will be drained to debilitation so that you can be given the appearance
superior health and attract yet more healthy donors after we have been sent away.

It is like seeing someone in peer's robes and coronet. Does the person actually own the velvet and ermine robes free and clear, own his or her estates free and clear? Or has the person merely rented all this plumage from Moss Bros costumers?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2016 03:47AM by corboy.

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DIstortion of gratitude
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 13, 2016 09:48PM

This excerpt from Daniel Shaw's essay is worth a closer look.

Depending on the context, one can substitute "batterer", "dictator" "captor"
for "cult leader".

Quote

"... from a psychoanalytic perspective, the cult leader unconsciously experiences his dependency needs as so deeply shameful that a delusion of omnipotence is developed to ward off the toxic shame.

It is urgent to the pathological narcissist, who knows unconsciously that he is susceptible to extreme mortification (the sense of "death" by shame), that this delusion of omnipotence be sustained.

Manic defenses help sustain the delusion, but in addition, followers must be seduced and controlled so that the loathsome dependence can be externalized, located in others and thereby made controllable. The leader can then express his unconscious self-loathing through his "compassion" (often thinly disguised contempt) for his followers’ weakness. Manically proclaiming his own perfection, the leader creates a program of "purification" for the follower.

By enlisting the follower to hold the shame that he projects and evacuates from his own psyche, the cult leader rids himself of all shame, becoming, in effect, "shameless." He defines his shamelessness as enlightenment, liberation, or self-actualization.

It becomes important to the cult leader, for the maintenance of his state of shamelessness on which his psychic equilibrium depends, that there be no competition, that he alone, and no one else in the group, feels shameless.

So while apparently inviting others to attain his state of perfection (shamelessness) by following him, the cult leader is actually constantly involved in inducing shame in his followers, thereby maintaining his dominance and control"

*Examples of delusions of omnipotence:

* A guru or avatar who goes into trances or retreats and claims to work on higher planes to influence world affairs. One guru reportedly liked to go to the movies and claimed that while doing so, he was doing work to assist the spiritual welfare of the theatre audience. Another guru One guru claimed to get special messages from Francis of Assisi.

See Footnote #1

1 (A common example of a mortifying life history. Girls and women have their own nortifying experiences, leading some to become bullies. Here is given a description of a scenario in India, as India is where many gurus, avatars and godmen are manufactured and exported).

In India and many cultures, the oldest or most talented boy will be selected by the family as the one who will by their sacrifices, get an education, a lucrative job, marry well and raise them to prosperity. If the father of the family is absent, ailing, or has faltered, the pressure on the selected son will be all the greater. The parents will borrow, budget, sacrifice themselves so they can send their savior son to school for an elite education. This is a heavy burden for a sensitive boy or young man. (See Suketu Mehta's description here.

[books.google.com]

It is culturally taboo for this young person to resent the pressure. It is taboo to want to escape from that burden. But a psychosomatic crisis in which one goes mute, goes into trances especially after meeting a holy person can, subconsciously become a means of escape from the family burden.

In his book, Shamans, Mystics and Doctors,
Sudhir Kakar tells of a a young man, under exactly this family pressure, who became mute and went into trances. Instead of being recognized at the current Avatar of the Age, he received sympathetic medical attention. but
at a price of becoming a guru, enforced celibacy and the requirement to pretend
to not have ordinary human needs and desires. The shame of having deserted the family may lead this person to use the guru role to acquire wealth and celebrity to assist his family and off set having emasculated himself.

The guru may claim to know all the secrets of the universe and be Avatar of the Age, yet have a multitude of hangups that he cannot acknowledge. He will take this out on disciples in bursts of rage rationalised as enlightened teaching. Any self loathing felt by the guru will be extruded outwards like a psychic turd then smeared onto luckless disciples.

A male guru who when young may have been the hope of his family. When just a boy he would have been the one for whom the family made sacrifices to prepare him for a lucrative career and adventageous marriage so he could support them in their old age. A young man thus burdened might find it all too much to cope with. Consciously wishing to drop out of college or do coursework in humanities rather than technology might trigger trance illnesses that provide a socially permissible career change to that of holy man.

Footnote #2 A disciple or several disciples may become the designated scapegoats, fall into the guru's disfavor and be singled out by him for degradation in front of the other disciples. Andrew Cohen reportedly did this to many of his disciples, sending some off in disgrace to distant assignments. Other times disciples who were in disgrace volunteered to abase themselves in penance.

Footnote #3 Andrew Cohen commended students to abuse other students, degrading themselves along with the targeted victim.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2017 03:17AM by corboy.

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