David Bruce Hues/ Essoteric Teachings
Posted by:
gaura99
()
Date: September 05, 2008 09:22AM
I just thought It may be valuable for some seekers of spiritual truth who come across a Guru named David Bruce Hues to understand some the positive and negative impact that one may experience making contact with him. On his web site there is a lot of standard Vedic knowledge taught from the basis of the writings of AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada an Indian Guru who started the world wide hare Krishna movement, called ISKCON. This is the positive aspect. He is also I believe sincerely dedicated to serving God and his Guru but many of such persons who present themselves as Self Realized Gurus refuse to see that they also still human and may have some imperfections or blind spots. They can create havoc in the lives of others because of not being willing to look at themselves honestly because of believing they are already perfect self realized souls.
I read quite of few of the posts from his students and prospective students on the forum on his website. I observed how he responded to questions and statements of many people. There is no doubt a lot of knowledge that can be found on his web site. One can also get access to the same knowledge from the internet directly without having to possibly pay a dear price in the form of conforming and sacrificing ones individuality and personal reality to fit in the box of his personal interpretation of the Scriptures. He accepts no other points of view and condemns vehemently teachers of other paths, who are not following the particular path that he is following. I have been following the same path as him for many years and he even condems me for having a different opinion, experiences and realizations gained from my own personal journey following the same path. We are all individuals and he does not appear to have the capacity respect a persons individuality and personal evolvement if it is even is slightly different than his.
Here is the main warning to all! People who share their personal realizations and understanding of themselves, their reality, or opinion on his forum, will be met with strong condemnation, belittlement, disdain and may even called insane. I have noticed some weakened and probably previously physiologically abused persons who reach out to him for help and are rewarded by being emotionally abused because they don’t fit in the box of his own personal scriptural interpretations. If one ends up conforming to his personal views that he believes is absolute reality for everyone then they receive praise. If they don’t conform then they receive intense condemnation, criticism, and are belittled. This is the danger I see for those who share on his forums because one may fall into the trap by accepting his authority due to his personal claim to be Self Realized and suffer emotional and psychological abuse by accepting his words as true. I would say his teaching has the trappings of a dangerous cult for one who gets deeply involved. One can only get deeply involved by accepting his absolute authority and personal perspective on the Scriptures otherwise if any differences or individual perspective is shared they are thrown out of his forum if they don’t submit. How convenient of a way to maintain absolute control. If someone has another point of view or does not accept to be emotionally abused they are thrown out and demonized like I was. No one can hear from them again because of having no way of making contact.
I read quite of few of the posts from his students and prospective students on the forum on his website. I observed how he responded to questions and statements of many people. There is no doubt a lot of knowledge that can be found on his web site. One can also get access to the same knowledge from the internet directly without having to possibly pay a dear price in the form of conforming and sacrificing ones individuality and personal reality to fit in the box of his personal interpretation of the Scriptures. He accepts no other points of view and condemns vehemently teachers of other paths, who are not following the particular path that he is following. I have been following the same path as him for many years and he even condems me for having a different opinion, experiences and realizations gained from my own personal journey following the same path. We are all individuals and he does not appear to have the capacity respect a persons individuality and personal evolvement if it is even is slightly different than his.
Here is the main warning to all! People who share their personal realizations and understanding of themselves, their reality, or opinion on his forum, will be met with strong condemnation, belittlement, disdain and may even called insane. I have noticed some weakened and probably previously physiologically abused persons who reach out to him for help and are rewarded by being emotionally abused because they don’t fit in the box of his own personal scriptural interpretations. If one ends up conforming to his personal views that he believes is absolute reality for everyone then they receive praise. If they don’t conform then they receive intense condemnation, criticism, and are belittled. This is the danger I see for those who share on his forums because one may fall into the trap by accepting his authority due to his personal claim to be Self Realized and suffer emotional and psychological abuse by accepting his words as true. I would say his teaching has the trappings of a dangerous cult for one who gets deeply involved. One can only get deeply involved by accepting his absolute authority and personal perspective on the Scriptures otherwise if any differences or individual perspective is shared they are thrown out of his forum if they don’t submit. How convenient of a way to maintain absolute control. If someone has another point of view or does not accept to be emotionally abused they are thrown out and demonized like I was. No one can hear from them again because of having no way of making contact.
Re: David Bruce Hughes
Posted by:
gaura99
()
Date: September 06, 2008 02:23PM
These are responses to questions and comments from sincere and inquiring students and forum paticipants taken from the forum daily journal. Please pay close attention of the statements to see how much of these answers and underlying tone of much of what is said in the posts is invalidating, negative and disempowering and naturally could cause doubt in one’s mind. It appears that David Bruce Hughes and his close disciples are considering themselves Absolute perfect authorities on the Vedic scriptures and feel they have free license to discount, deride, and try to emotional abuse anyone who disagrees with their personal interpretations of the scriptures and spiritual life. All in the name of teaching! They quote and twist scripture to invalidate and condemn the experiences and personal realizations of others who share honestly and openly on their forum. Sometimes the quotes of scripture are so so long and rambling on as indicated in Rupanugas posts and sometimes David’s, that one cannot even find what they are relevant to because they are barely explained at best. The underlining tone of all these posts are to discredit, condemn and invalidate all who share their own realizations and life experiences on the forum so that one will either be cohearsed to accept the groups opinnion or be kicked off the forum and demonized. Any opinion of others that is respectfully shared that different than David Bruce Hues interpretations are labeled evil, illusion and wrong. If one is interested perpetuating their previous pattern of emotional abuse and in having their sanity, individuality, life realizations, and self esteem targeted for being nuked by this group then here’s a forum for them to participate in.
When the Cat's Away...
by David Bruce Hughes - Monday, September 1, 2008, 12:52 PM
Dear Students,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
...the mice will play. Recently we have seen an invasion of rascals on this Forum. They have read that I am on vacation, so they think that they can get away with perverting the purpose of this association for their own purposes. That is not going to work, and it is never going to work. This Forum is only for sincere students of the Esoteric Teaching. Period.
My disciples Uddhava dās, Rūpānuga dās, Neville and others are perfectly competent to recognize and correct bogus philosophy―that's why they are my disciples―and I have given them full administration privileges to this Forum. They are extremely vigilant, and I am always monitoring the Forum and advising them. So if you have some personal agenda or opinion different from the Esoteric Teaching of the Vedas, don't bother posting your nonsense here; go someplace where there are stupid people who will tolerate you. We will always maintain this Forum as a safe place where only the real Absolute Truth is discussed; that is our commitment.
This Forum is called Kurukṣetra because it is a battlefield where one's faith is proved; once his sincerity is demonstrated and he is ready to meet our conditions, he can inquire further on the Naimiṣāraṇya Forum.
"The conditions for hearing the transcendental message of the Absolute Truth are set forth herein. The first condition is that the audience must be very sincere and eager to hear. And the speaker must be in the line of disciplic succession from the recognized ācārya. The transcendental message of the Absolute is not understandable by those who are materially absorbed. Under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master, one becomes gradually purified. Therefore, one must be in the chain of disciplic succession and learn the spiritual art of submissive hearing. In the case of Sūta Gosvāmī and the sages of Naimiṣāraṇya, all these conditions are fulfilled because Śrīla Sūta Gosvāmī is in the line of Śrīla Vyāsadeva, and the sages of Naimiṣāraṇya are all sincere souls who are anxious to learn the truth. Thus the transcendental topics of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's superhuman activities, His incarnation, His birth, appearance or disappearance, His forms, His names and so on are all easily understandable because all requirements are fulfilled. Such discourses help all men on the path of spiritual realization." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.1.13 Purport]
As clearly explained by Śrīla Vyāsadeva in Śrī Vedānta-sūtra and other scriptures, we do not accept the various distortions, misinterpretations and misunderstandings of the authentic Vedic Esoteric Teaching. We are here to serve the sincere people, not the rascals who come to exploit and deceive. This Forum is for submissive hearing, not for rascal argumentation, which is simply a waste of time.
love,
Baba
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Re: Mukti and Moksha
by David Bruce Hughes - Monday, September 1, 2008, 06:07 PM
Dear Jim,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Every hot-headed young whippersnapper thinks he knows everything. Once you actually attain maturity, you will have to admit that actually we human beings can know very little, and most of what we do know is all mixed up and unsystematic. Fortunately, the Esoteric Teaching of the Vedas is there to guide us, or we would not have a hope of attaining anything like real knowledge.
All of your questions and much, much more are answered in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. But your posts reveal that even if you have read it as you claim, you have not understood it at all. Otherwise you would not say so many confused and ignorant things. Let me just highlight one example out of many: "A very important thing I want to tell, is I see myself equal to everybody, and doesn't put myself higher or lower to another!"
You cannot be equal to everyone: there will always be superior and inferior men. Just like when you are in school, there are students in higher grades and others in lower grades. In whatever way you measure, there will always be people better than you and less than you. The only way we are equal is in our spiritual potential, but even then there are enormous differences in how well we have realized that potential.
We are not going to get anywhere in our discussions unless you accept that we know something that you don't, and have realized many spiritual truths that are simply theoretical or even completely unknown to you. Anyone who becomes expert in any field can immediately tell when he encounters someone who is less experienced or knowledgeable. It is not a matter of proof, but of experience. You can prove anything by so-called logic, even that black is white and down is up; but the real proof is when you can apply and explain the knowledge clearly, and you can't. Instead you contradict yourself at every turn.
For example, the symptoms of the self-realized soul who has attained mukti are given in the Bhagavad-gītā, but you are so lazy that you want to hold forth like some kind of authority here before you have even bothered to read them. That is why we criticize you; not because we enjoy it, but to wake you up from your illusory misconception of your spiritual advancement. You say that you want mukti, but your words reveal that you are not even on the most neophyte platform of an actually liberated soul. You have to accept this, otherwise there is no basis for further discussion.
na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me." [Bhagavad-gītā 7.15]
PURPORT
It is said in Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Kṛṣṇa, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question arises: How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender to the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the all-powerful Personality of Godhead? Mukti, or liberation from the laws of material nature, is sought by the leaders of mankind in different ways and with great plans and perseverance for a great many years and births. But if that liberation is possible by simply surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then why don't these intelligent and hard-working leaders adopt this simple method?
The Gītā answers this question very frankly. Those really learned leaders of society like Brahmā, Śiva, Kapila, the Kumāras, Manu, Vyāsa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlāda, Bali, and later on Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Śrī Caitanya and many others, who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, scientists, etc., surrender to the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God; they simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material existence in their vain attempts to solve them.
No one who eats meat can understand spiritual life. I have never met a meat-eater who could understand even the first or second chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, what to speak of any of the higher truths of spiritual life. When you stop making lots of words about nothing, do your homework, read the literature, practice the principles and actually surrender to Kṛṣṇa and His Esoteric Teaching, then we will start to take you seriously.
love,
Baba
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Re: Mukti and Moksha
by David Bruce Hughes - Monday, September 1, 2008, 12:19 PM
Dear Jim and All,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Rūpānuga Prabhu is right; it was apparent from your very first post that you are in complete illusion and confusion. You claimed to have read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, but then you are uncertain about what Brahman realization is, and how to attain it. Yet this very subject is explained numerous times, very clearly in that book. So if you don't understand that means that you don't want to understand the actual Esoteric Teaching, but you want to speculate some misunderstanding of your own.
The Esoteric Teaching of the Vedas has two sides: what it accepts and what it does not accept. We are not free to speculate on the matter and make guesses according to our limited intelligence. We have to accept the interpretations of the great authorities like Śrīla Prabhupāda, otherwise we become deviated and lost.
William Zodda is not an uathorized representative of this lineage; he has deliberately changed the meaning of terms like 'illicit sex' given by Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he also advocates compromising with the impersonalists. He is completely disloyal to the lineage and to his own spiritual master. No one should take such a rascal seriously when he bluffs you with his sophisticated nonsense. He will have to stand before his spiritual master and answer for his intransigence; and if you follow his path, then so will you.
The authentic path of spiritual life is very difficult, and few people have the determination, intelligence or integrity to follow it to the end and attain actual realization. People like Jim and William admit that they have not attained the ultimate realization given in the Vedas; so how are they qualified to lead others? If one who is unrealized tries to become a spiritual authority for others, it is just the blind leading the blind, and they all wind up in the ditch.
"A pure devotee of the Lord like Brahmā and persons in his disciplic succession are always unhappy to see the perplexities of the conditioned souls, who are suffering the onslaughts of the threefold miseries which pertain to the body and mind, to the disturbances of material nature, and to many other such material disadvantages. Not knowing adequate measures for relieving such difficulties, suffering persons sometimes pose themselves as leaders of the people, and the unfortunate followers are put into further disadvantages under such so-called leadership. This is like a blind man's leading another blind man to fall into a ditch. Therefore, unless the devotees of the Lord take pity on them and teach them the right path, their lives are hopeless failures. The devotees of the Lord who voluntarily take the responsibility of raising the foolish materialistic sense enjoyers are as confidential to the Lord as Lord Brahmā." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.9.8 Purport]
love,
Baba
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Re: Mukti and Moksha
by Rūpānuga Dāsa - Monday, September 1, 2008, 09:58 AM
Dear Jim,
Don't try to pull others into a sentimental mood by dramatizing your misunderstandings.
You did not follow the rules and standards on this forum and for this you got chastised. Nobody wants to hamper your spiritual advancement or make you fall down from whatever advancement you might have got.
The problem is that you don't display the symptoms of the realizations that you claim to have. If you have to ask us, whether you had an experience of self-realization, then it is totally clear that you didn't have it. Why? If you were self-realized you would have - by definition - found your true identity and would know about that very clearly. The same holds true for any proposed 'love relationship with Krsna'. This is ridiculous. You don't follow any bona fide path, I bet you are not even following the four regulative principles - and then you go on and claim to have a love relationship with Krsna.
Your last post also confirms my analysis of the strong bewilderment by your false ego. Because you can not accept that people question your alleged spiritual advancement you have to go into the role of the spoiled child. This makes very clear, that you have not attained any of the liberations that you so persistently confuse with each other...
Love and Respect
Rupanuga Dasa
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Re: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - Genuine Spiritual Teacher?
by Rūpānuga Dāsa - Monday, September 1, 2008, 01:14 PM
Dear William,
"nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa on this earth, having taken shelter at His lotus feet.
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Sarasvatī Gosvāmī. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanyadeva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism."
"Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī used to explain impersonalism, the Absolute Truth, as being without hands, legs, mouths or eyes. In this way he used to cheat the people by denying the personal form of the Lord. Such a foolish person was Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, whose only business was to sever the limbs of the Lord by proving the Lord impersonal. Although the Lord has form, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī was attempting to cut off the hands and legs of the Lord. This is the business of demons. The Vedas state that people who do not accept the Lord's form are rascals. The form of the Lord is factual, for Kṛṣṇa states in Bhagavad-gītā (15.15): vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. When Kṛṣṇa says aham, He says "I am," which means "I," the person. He adds the word eva, which is used for conclusive verification. It is by Vedānta philosophy that one has to know the Supreme Person. Whoever describes Vedic knowledge as impersonal is a demon. One becomes successful in life by worshiping the form of the Lord. The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs deny the form of the Lord, which delivers all fallen souls. Indeed, this form is cut to pieces by Māyāvādī demons." [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya 17.104, Purport]
Yes, "back in the old days" the devotees were actually following Prabhupada.
This and other previous posts of yours point out in detail that you are not a follower of Srila Prabhupada. In fact you have degraded to an abominable pseudo-devotee who tries to use his political expertise and experience to poison others with speculative impersonalistic nonsense.
I remember that you whined over the loss of some of your students you allegedly had, through the intervention of some ISKCON Guru's followers... Now you try attempt to do the same thing. Babaji has not withdrawn himself for a week from the forum and you start to spread this ridiculous nonsense about sex-life and mayavada-philosophy, trying to set up our students against Babaji and his close disciples who counteract this. But your current post makes it clear that you can't have any ethics, because you have completely deviated from the actual path that Srila Prabhupada taught. But despite of that you claim a role as one of his senior disciples and you even try to announce yourself a spiritual teacher on these forums. We can not tolerate this poisonous mentality.
In order to refute the nonsense you stated above I will extensively quote sastra to show in detail that the position towards mayavada-philosophy you presented does not - in any way - go along with the philosophical and ethical standards and conclusions of our sampradaya.
Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita:
"For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progrese in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied." [Bhagavad-gita 12.5]
Srila Prabhupada comments on this:
"A living entity is eternally an individual soul, and if he wants to merge into the spiritual whole, he may accomplish the realization of the eternal and knowledgeable aspects of his original nature, but the blissful portion is not realized. By the grace of some devotee, such a transcendentalist, highly learned in the process of jñāna-yoga, may come to the point of bhakti-yoga, or devotional service. At that time, long practice in impersonalism also becomes a source of trouble, because he cannot give up the idea. Therefore an embodied soul is always in difficulty with the unmanifest, both at the time of practice and at the time of realization. Every living soul is partially independant, and one should know for certain that this unmanifested realization is against the nature of his spiritual blissful self. One should not take up this process. For every individual living entity the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which entails full engagement in devotional service, is the best way. If one wants to ignore this devotional service, there is the danger of turning to atheism. Thus this process of centering attention on the unmanifested, the inconceivable, which is beyond the approach of the senses, as already expressed in this verse, should never be encouraged at any time, especially in this age. It is not advised by Lord Kṛṣṇa." [Bhagavad-gita 12.5, Purport]
"O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet." [Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.32]
Srila Prabhupada comments:
"There are persons who advocate accepting any process and who say that whatever process one accepts will lead to the same goal, but that is refuted in this verse, where such persons are referred to as vimukta-māninaḥ, signifying that although they think they have attained the highest perfection, in fact they have not. In the present day, big, big politicians all over the world think that by scheming they can occupy the highest political post, that of president or prime minister, but we actually see that even in this life such big prime ministers, presidents and other politicians, because of being nondevotees, fall down (patanty adhaḥ). To become president or prime minister is not easy; one must work very hard (āruhya kṛcchreṇa) to achieve the post. And even though one may reach his goal, at any moment one may be kicked down by material nature. In human society there have been many instances in which great, exalted politicians have fallen from government and become lost in historical oblivion. The cause of this is aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: [SB 10.2.32] their intelligence is impure. The śāstra says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). One achieves the perfection of life by becoming a devotee of Viṣṇu, but people do not know this. Therefore, as stated in Bhagavad-gītā (12.5), kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Persons who do not ultimately accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead and take to devotional service, but who instead are attached to impersonalism and voidism, must undergo great labor to achieve their goals.
śreyaḥ-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho
kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye
(SB 10.14.4)
To achieve understanding, such persons work very hard and undergo severe austerities, but their hard labor and austerities themselves are their only achievement, for they do not actually achieve the real goal of life." [Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.32, Purport]
“Everything about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is spiritual, including His body, opulence and paraphernalia. Māyāvāda philosophy, however, covering His spiritual opulence, advocates the theory of impersonalism." [Caitanya-caritāmṛta Adi, 7.112]
“The Buddhists do not recognize the authority of the Vedas; therefore they are considered agnostics. However, those who have taken shelter of the Vedic scriptures yet preach agnosticism in accordance with the Māyāvāda philosophy are certainly more dangerous than the Buddhists." [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya, 6.168]
Srila Prabhupada comments:
"Although the Buddhists are directly opposed to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, it can easily be understood that the Śaṅkarites are more dangerous because they accept the authority of the Vedas yet act contrary to Vedic instruction. Vedāśraya nāstikya-vāda means “agnosticism under the shelter of Vedic culture” and refers to the monistic philosophy of the Māyāvādīs. Lord Buddha abandoned the authority of the Vedic literature and therefore rejected the ritualistic ceremonies and sacrifices recommended in the Vedas. His nirvāṇa philosophy means stopping all material activities. Lord Buddha did not recognize the presence of transcendental forms and spiritual activities beyond the material world. He simply described voidism beyond this material existence. The Māyāvādī philosophers offer lip service to Vedic authority but try to escape the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. They concoct some idea of a transcendental position and call themselves Nārāyaṇa, or God. However, God’s position is completely different from their concoction. Such Māyāvādī philosophers consider themselves above the influence of karma-kāṇḍa (fruitive activities and their reactions). For them, the spiritual world is equated with the Buddhist voidism. There is very little difference between impersonalism and voidism. Voidism can be directly understood, but the impersonalism enunciated by Māyāvādī philosophers is not very easily understandable. Of course, Māyāvādī philosophers accept a spiritual existence, but they do not know about the spiritual world and spiritual beings. According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.2.32):
ye ’nye ’ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho ’nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ
The intelligence of the Māyāvādīs is not purified; therefore even though they practice austerities for self-realization, they cannot remain within the impersonal brahmajyoti. Consequently, they fall down again into this material world.
The Māyāvādīs’ conception of spiritual existence is almost identical to the negation of material existence. The Māyāvādīs believe that there is nothing positive in spiritual life. As a result, they cannot understand devotional service or the worship of the Supreme Person, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. The Māyāvādī philosophers consider Deity worship in devotional service to be pratibimba-vāda, or the worship of a form that is the reflection of a false material form. Thus the Lord’s transcendental form, which is eternally blissful and full of knowledge, is unknown to Māyāvādī philosophers. Although the term “Bhagavān” is explicitly described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, they cannot understand it. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: “The Absolute Truth is called Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān.” (SB 1.2.11) The Māyāvādīs try to understand Brahman only, or, at the most, Paramātmā. However, they are unable to understand Bhagavān. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Because of the temperament of the Māyāvādī philosophers, real knowledge is taken from them. Because they cannot receive the mercy of the Lord, they will always be bewildered by His transcendental form. Impersonal philosophy destroys the three phases of knowledge—jñāna, jñeya and jñātā. As soon as one speaks of knowledge, there must be a person who is the knower, the knowledge itself and the object of knowledge. Māyāvāda philosophy combines these three categories; therefore the Māyāvādīs cannot understand how the spiritual potencies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead act. Because of their poor fund of knowledge, they cannot understand the distinction in the spiritual world between knowledge, the knower and the object of knowledge. Because of this, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu considers the Māyāvādī philosophers more dangerous than the Buddhists." [Caitanya-caritāmṛta Madhya, 6.168, Purport]
To misrepresent the writings of past-acaryas and the teachings of the Lord to favor your misconceptions and whimsical speculations is not at all acceptable.
To quote from the text by Bhaktivinoda Thakur which you have even failed to reference or to link to:
"Satvata-dharma, or nonsectarian Vaisnava-dharma, is the living entities constitutional, or eternal, religious principles. The Vaisnava principles that are found in the Mayavada-sampradaya are only indirect imitations of those principles. When such sectarian Vaisnava principles become transcendental, that is, when they are freed from impersonalism, then they become Satvata-dharma, or religious principles related with the Supreme Truth. The different sampradayas, namely dvaita (dualism) dvaitadvaita (simultaneous oneness and difference), suddhadvaita ( purified oneness), and visistadvaita (specific monism) that are found in satvata-dharma are nothing but wonderful varieties of sentiments within the Vaisnava science. Actually the various sampradayas are not the result of differences in the basic truth. Impersonalism is diametrically opposite to the science of bhakti. Those Vaisnavas who have accepted impersonalism are not pure Vaisnavas. "
As it is clearly visible you have, in a disgusting spirit, deliberately ripped a part of Bhaktivinoda's text out of context to make it appear as if he would support the nonsense you are propagating.
We can't accept people like you, who claim to be devotees but who are actually backstabbing vaisnava-culture and philosophy on our forums. That is why we have removed your posting priveleges.
Furthermore I would like to share some personal information about the spiritual teacher in question in this thread:
When Maharishi Mahesh Yogi first came to the U.S. he stayed in Los Angeles in the house of a family. (The name of this family is not of importance. This story was delivered to Babaji by a direct witness of these events.)
The family had a little daughter and "Maharishi" repeatedly abused her sexually. This is the nature of impersonalists. They can not control their senses. They are demons - as mentioned above. Similar examples can be found in the biographies of "Satya Sai Baba" or Rashneesh.
"As for those who are impersonalists and who want to commit spiritual suicide by annihilating the individual existence of the living entity, Kṛṣṇa helps also by absorbing them into His effulgence. Such impersonalists do not agree to accept the eternal, blissful Personality of Godhead; consequently they cannot relish the bliss of transcendental personal service to the Lord, having extinguished their individuality." [Bhagavad-gita 4.11, Purport]
I hope this answers all open questions the interested reader might have had.
Hare Krsna
Rupanuga Dasa
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David Bruce hues says:
Dear Inci,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
The problem with You Will Attain Me is fixed. Thanks for letting me know.
The Holy Name is completely spiritual, so it has no material effects. But it does change our consciousness, removing the darkness of ignorance and revealing the Absolute Truth. In material consciousness we are actually insane, because we accept the body as the self. In normal circumstances we can hide our madness from ourselves, but when we chant the Holy Name of the Lord, everything is revealed in clarity.
So what is happening is that you are seeing for the first time how crazy you really are. Naturally this is a bit scary, but it will pass. The effect of material happiness is like nectar in the beginning and poison at the end; but the effect of the Holy Name is like poison in the beginning and nectar in the end.
Re: Chanting mantras and speed
by David Bruce Hughes - Monday, September 1, 2008, 12:04 PM
Dear Angelina,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
It sounds like you are completely in illusion. The romantic ideal is based on sex attraction, and it is just sense gratification. The Vedas are very clear about what is acceptable sex life under regulative principles. We are not interested in your personal opinion in the matter, we are interested in what the scriptures say:
samaṁ kāya-śiro-grīvaṁ dhārayann acalaṁ sthiraḥ
samprekṣya nāsikāgraṁ svaṁ diśaś cānavalokayan
praśāntātmā vigata-bhīr brahmacāri-vrate sthitaḥ
manaḥ saṁyamya mac-citto yukta āsīta mat-paraḥ
"One should hold one's body, neck and head erect in a straight line and stare steadily at the tip of the nose. Thus, with an unagitated, subdued mind, devoid of fear, completely free from sex life, one should meditate upon Me within the heart and make Me the ultimate goal of life." [Bhagavad-gītā 6.13-14]
This Forum is not for propagating your personal opinions, but for discussing the Absolute Truths of the Esoteric Teaching. If you continue to abuse your posting privileges, we will be forced to withdraw them.
Kṛṣṇa teaches that all actions performed or personal enjoyment create karma, which binds us to material existence:
yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra
loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ
tad-arthaṁ karma kaunteya
mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara
"Work done as a sacrifice for Viṣṇu has to be performed, otherwise work binds one to this material world. Therefore, O son of Kuntī, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain unattached and free from bondage." [Bhagavad-gītā 3.9]
Therefore according to the Esoteric Teaching, the only acceptable use for sex life is creating God-conscious children by performance of the garbhādāna-saṁskāra:
"There are so many things, such as the garbhādāna, or seed-giving, ceremony. Even when sex is employed properly, for begetting a child, it is not undertaken secretly, without anyone else’s knowledge. There should be a ceremonial function, garbhādāna-saṁskāra. All the brāhmaṇas and relatives come, and everyone knows, 'Some time soon, this man is going to have sex for begetting a child.' So there is a dignified heralding. Not that sexual activity is simply done in the heat of the moment, like cats and dogs."
You have written me so many long emails complaining about how the men in your life have mistreated you, and how much you have suffered in pursuit of this unattainable desire for love in the material world. Still you want to maintain this nonsense that sex for personal sense gratification is OK. Actually I think that people like you and William are not fully sane or rational, otherwise how you can maintain such contradictory thoughts within your mind?
You have not understood anything of the Esoteric Teaching; all of our hard work is lost on you. You have not learned anything after all this time, either from us or from the experiences of your own life. Simply you remain on the sentimental platform of your own mental speculation. This is animal consciousness.
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
"One who identifies his self as the inert body composed of mucus, bile and air, who assumes his wife and family are permanently his own, who thinks an earthen image or the land of his birth is worshipable, or who sees a place of pilgrimage as merely the water there, but who never identifies himself with, feels kinship with, worships or even visits those who are wise in spiritual truth—such a person is no better than a cow or an ass." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 10.84.13]
The only real love is Kṛṣṇa's eternal, unconditional love for His parts and parcels, the living entities. Everyone else will cheat you. All other kinds of love are temporary and conditional, therefore they are material and false, part of The Big Lie.
How many times do we have to say this before you get it? Your hope of finding love in this material world is a false hope, exactly like a mirage of water in the desert. There is no water in the desert, therefore if we think we see water in the distance, it is simply a mirage. Similarly, if we think that love is available in this material world, it is just an illusion. You have to get past this illusion once and for all before you can make any meaningful spiritual progress.
love,
Baba
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Re: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - Genuine Spiritual Teacher?
by Neville Clemens - Sunday, August 31, 2008, 04:13 PM
Dear Mathias,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
No, we do not accept Maharishi as a bona fide spiritual teacher because he is an impersonalist who denies the personality of God and does not teach the highest philosophy, which is the attainment of the perfect love relationship with God. That is also why he only commented on the first six chapters of the Bhagavad-Gita, carefully avoiding the rest of the Gita that deals with devotional service and other such personal aspects of God and spiritual life. So we reject such teachers that hold back spiritual knowledge and furthermore, indulge in the ridiculous practice of selling mantras to people who are foolish enough to by them because they want some easy spiritual knick-knack in their life.
Please listen to these podcasts for a primer on the dangers and logical fallacies of the impersonalist philosophy:
• Seduced by Untruth
• 'Oneness' means nothingness
• I don't see the connection
No, instead we accept someone like Srila Prabhupada as a bona fide spiritual master. He has kindly translated and provided a beautiful and authoritative commentary on the Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. Not only that, he has translated many other priceless Vedic literatures and you can read them all for free here. Similarly, this is also an esoteric school that freely gives out the highest spiritual knowledge, holding nothing back. The price is the sincerity of the student. You may have some difficult un-learning to do, but of course it is possible and you can start by reading this and following our curriculum.
Love,
Neville
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Re: Mukti and Moksha
by Rūpānuga Dāsa - Sunday, August 31, 2008, 06:08 PM
Dear Jim,
To quote Dinesh D'souza, "I feel like a mosquito in a nudist-colony -- I don't know where to start."
Obviously you have no clue what you are talking about. Your speculative new-age meditations are not of interest on these forums. And if you had read Srila Prabhupada's Gita I wouldn't need to explain this to you.
You can't just read confidential spiritual material that has been passed down for thousands and millions of years from Guru to disciple without studying the purports given therein. But that you do so shows that all you want to do is to speculate about this 'lightsoul'-nonsense, which you have failed to describe properly due to your confusion of so called spiritual terminology. (For example: "Even my goal isn't to be in my lightsoul when I die, it is good for me when I'm talking about my experience to other that want to hear about it,..." - this sentence alone shows that you are not qualified to recieve any deeper answer from the students on these forums, because you have made no attempt to even study the very basics of our philosophy and hence all you do is steal our time with your speculations...)
Another thing is that when a student instructs you on something, you should accept that and meditate upon that, so that you can understand what that person tries to tell you. But instead you believe that you already know everything you need to know about spiritual life and therefore you go and make your first post on the forum for advanced students.
Then you foolishly critisize the Gita because it doesn't still your hunger after cheap experiences.
I am not willing to list all of the nonsense in your post but I will give you a simple choice: Either you stick to our rules, standards and curriculum or you go and find another place where people are more appreciative for impersonalistic speculation.
We are a real spiritual school. Our system gives knowledge from a higher source to the students through disciplic succession. So when a senior student answers your post, you should be thankful that he took his time to do so. You should read these responds very carefully, because they are written by someone who has a higher realization and understanding than you. If you can't deal with that because of your false ego, it is your problem and not ours.
Love and Respect
Hare Krsna
Rupanuga Dasa
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One should not associate with a coarse fool who is bereft of the knowledge of self-realization and who is no more than a dancing dog in the hands of a woman." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.31.34]
Such fools may appear in the dress of devotees and speak eloquently with all reason and argument, but they are still in the animalistic consciousness of sense enjoyment; therefore their association must be avoided. Certainly they cannot be allowed to speak freely in an association of transcendentalists such as our esoteric school. Therefore we are very firm to restrict their influence and activities, just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. This is the path that leads to knowledge.
love,
Baba
When the Cat's Away...
by David Bruce Hughes - Monday, September 1, 2008, 12:52 PM
Dear Students,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
...the mice will play. Recently we have seen an invasion of rascals on this Forum. They have read that I am on vacation, so they think that they can get away with perverting the purpose of this association for their own purposes. That is not going to work, and it is never going to work. This Forum is only for sincere students of the Esoteric Teaching. Period.
My disciples Uddhava dās, Rūpānuga dās, Neville and others are perfectly competent to recognize and correct bogus philosophy―that's why they are my disciples―and I have given them full administration privileges to this Forum. They are extremely vigilant, and I am always monitoring the Forum and advising them. So if you have some personal agenda or opinion different from the Esoteric Teaching of the Vedas, don't bother posting your nonsense here; go someplace where there are stupid people who will tolerate you. We will always maintain this Forum as a safe place where only the real Absolute Truth is discussed; that is our commitment.
This Forum is called Kurukṣetra because it is a battlefield where one's faith is proved; once his sincerity is demonstrated and he is ready to meet our conditions, he can inquire further on the Naimiṣāraṇya Forum.
"The conditions for hearing the transcendental message of the Absolute Truth are set forth herein. The first condition is that the audience must be very sincere and eager to hear. And the speaker must be in the line of disciplic succession from the recognized ācārya. The transcendental message of the Absolute is not understandable by those who are materially absorbed. Under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master, one becomes gradually purified. Therefore, one must be in the chain of disciplic succession and learn the spiritual art of submissive hearing. In the case of Sūta Gosvāmī and the sages of Naimiṣāraṇya, all these conditions are fulfilled because Śrīla Sūta Gosvāmī is in the line of Śrīla Vyāsadeva, and the sages of Naimiṣāraṇya are all sincere souls who are anxious to learn the truth. Thus the transcendental topics of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's superhuman activities, His incarnation, His birth, appearance or disappearance, His forms, His names and so on are all easily understandable because all requirements are fulfilled. Such discourses help all men on the path of spiritual realization." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.1.13 Purport]
As clearly explained by Śrīla Vyāsadeva in Śrī Vedānta-sūtra and other scriptures, we do not accept the various distortions, misinterpretations and misunderstandings of the authentic Vedic Esoteric Teaching. We are here to serve the sincere people, not the rascals who come to exploit and deceive. This Forum is for submissive hearing, not for rascal argumentation, which is simply a waste of time.
love,
Baba
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Re: Mukti and Moksha
by David Bruce Hughes - Monday, September 1, 2008, 06:07 PM
Dear Jim,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Every hot-headed young whippersnapper thinks he knows everything. Once you actually attain maturity, you will have to admit that actually we human beings can know very little, and most of what we do know is all mixed up and unsystematic. Fortunately, the Esoteric Teaching of the Vedas is there to guide us, or we would not have a hope of attaining anything like real knowledge.
All of your questions and much, much more are answered in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. But your posts reveal that even if you have read it as you claim, you have not understood it at all. Otherwise you would not say so many confused and ignorant things. Let me just highlight one example out of many: "A very important thing I want to tell, is I see myself equal to everybody, and doesn't put myself higher or lower to another!"
You cannot be equal to everyone: there will always be superior and inferior men. Just like when you are in school, there are students in higher grades and others in lower grades. In whatever way you measure, there will always be people better than you and less than you. The only way we are equal is in our spiritual potential, but even then there are enormous differences in how well we have realized that potential.
We are not going to get anywhere in our discussions unless you accept that we know something that you don't, and have realized many spiritual truths that are simply theoretical or even completely unknown to you. Anyone who becomes expert in any field can immediately tell when he encounters someone who is less experienced or knowledgeable. It is not a matter of proof, but of experience. You can prove anything by so-called logic, even that black is white and down is up; but the real proof is when you can apply and explain the knowledge clearly, and you can't. Instead you contradict yourself at every turn.
For example, the symptoms of the self-realized soul who has attained mukti are given in the Bhagavad-gītā, but you are so lazy that you want to hold forth like some kind of authority here before you have even bothered to read them. That is why we criticize you; not because we enjoy it, but to wake you up from your illusory misconception of your spiritual advancement. You say that you want mukti, but your words reveal that you are not even on the most neophyte platform of an actually liberated soul. You have to accept this, otherwise there is no basis for further discussion.
na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me." [Bhagavad-gītā 7.15]
PURPORT
It is said in Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Kṛṣṇa, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question arises: How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender to the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the all-powerful Personality of Godhead? Mukti, or liberation from the laws of material nature, is sought by the leaders of mankind in different ways and with great plans and perseverance for a great many years and births. But if that liberation is possible by simply surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then why don't these intelligent and hard-working leaders adopt this simple method?
The Gītā answers this question very frankly. Those really learned leaders of society like Brahmā, Śiva, Kapila, the Kumāras, Manu, Vyāsa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlāda, Bali, and later on Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Śrī Caitanya and many others, who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, scientists, etc., surrender to the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God; they simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material existence in their vain attempts to solve them.
No one who eats meat can understand spiritual life. I have never met a meat-eater who could understand even the first or second chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, what to speak of any of the higher truths of spiritual life. When you stop making lots of words about nothing, do your homework, read the literature, practice the principles and actually surrender to Kṛṣṇa and His Esoteric Teaching, then we will start to take you seriously.
love,
Baba
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Re: Mukti and Moksha
by David Bruce Hughes - Monday, September 1, 2008, 12:19 PM
Dear Jim and All,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Rūpānuga Prabhu is right; it was apparent from your very first post that you are in complete illusion and confusion. You claimed to have read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, but then you are uncertain about what Brahman realization is, and how to attain it. Yet this very subject is explained numerous times, very clearly in that book. So if you don't understand that means that you don't want to understand the actual Esoteric Teaching, but you want to speculate some misunderstanding of your own.
The Esoteric Teaching of the Vedas has two sides: what it accepts and what it does not accept. We are not free to speculate on the matter and make guesses according to our limited intelligence. We have to accept the interpretations of the great authorities like Śrīla Prabhupāda, otherwise we become deviated and lost.
William Zodda is not an uathorized representative of this lineage; he has deliberately changed the meaning of terms like 'illicit sex' given by Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he also advocates compromising with the impersonalists. He is completely disloyal to the lineage and to his own spiritual master. No one should take such a rascal seriously when he bluffs you with his sophisticated nonsense. He will have to stand before his spiritual master and answer for his intransigence; and if you follow his path, then so will you.
The authentic path of spiritual life is very difficult, and few people have the determination, intelligence or integrity to follow it to the end and attain actual realization. People like Jim and William admit that they have not attained the ultimate realization given in the Vedas; so how are they qualified to lead others? If one who is unrealized tries to become a spiritual authority for others, it is just the blind leading the blind, and they all wind up in the ditch.
"A pure devotee of the Lord like Brahmā and persons in his disciplic succession are always unhappy to see the perplexities of the conditioned souls, who are suffering the onslaughts of the threefold miseries which pertain to the body and mind, to the disturbances of material nature, and to many other such material disadvantages. Not knowing adequate measures for relieving such difficulties, suffering persons sometimes pose themselves as leaders of the people, and the unfortunate followers are put into further disadvantages under such so-called leadership. This is like a blind man's leading another blind man to fall into a ditch. Therefore, unless the devotees of the Lord take pity on them and teach them the right path, their lives are hopeless failures. The devotees of the Lord who voluntarily take the responsibility of raising the foolish materialistic sense enjoyers are as confidential to the Lord as Lord Brahmā." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.9.8 Purport]
love,
Baba
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Re: Mukti and Moksha
by Rūpānuga Dāsa - Monday, September 1, 2008, 09:58 AM
Dear Jim,
Don't try to pull others into a sentimental mood by dramatizing your misunderstandings.
You did not follow the rules and standards on this forum and for this you got chastised. Nobody wants to hamper your spiritual advancement or make you fall down from whatever advancement you might have got.
The problem is that you don't display the symptoms of the realizations that you claim to have. If you have to ask us, whether you had an experience of self-realization, then it is totally clear that you didn't have it. Why? If you were self-realized you would have - by definition - found your true identity and would know about that very clearly. The same holds true for any proposed 'love relationship with Krsna'. This is ridiculous. You don't follow any bona fide path, I bet you are not even following the four regulative principles - and then you go on and claim to have a love relationship with Krsna.
Your last post also confirms my analysis of the strong bewilderment by your false ego. Because you can not accept that people question your alleged spiritual advancement you have to go into the role of the spoiled child. This makes very clear, that you have not attained any of the liberations that you so persistently confuse with each other...
Love and Respect
Rupanuga Dasa
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Re: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - Genuine Spiritual Teacher?
by Rūpānuga Dāsa - Monday, September 1, 2008, 01:14 PM
Dear William,
"nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
I offer my respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa on this earth, having taken shelter at His lotus feet.
namas te sārasvate deve gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe
nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe
Our respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of Sarasvatī Gosvāmī. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanyadeva and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism."
"Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī used to explain impersonalism, the Absolute Truth, as being without hands, legs, mouths or eyes. In this way he used to cheat the people by denying the personal form of the Lord. Such a foolish person was Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, whose only business was to sever the limbs of the Lord by proving the Lord impersonal. Although the Lord has form, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī was attempting to cut off the hands and legs of the Lord. This is the business of demons. The Vedas state that people who do not accept the Lord's form are rascals. The form of the Lord is factual, for Kṛṣṇa states in Bhagavad-gītā (15.15): vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. When Kṛṣṇa says aham, He says "I am," which means "I," the person. He adds the word eva, which is used for conclusive verification. It is by Vedānta philosophy that one has to know the Supreme Person. Whoever describes Vedic knowledge as impersonal is a demon. One becomes successful in life by worshiping the form of the Lord. The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs deny the form of the Lord, which delivers all fallen souls. Indeed, this form is cut to pieces by Māyāvādī demons." [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya 17.104, Purport]
Yes, "back in the old days" the devotees were actually following Prabhupada.
This and other previous posts of yours point out in detail that you are not a follower of Srila Prabhupada. In fact you have degraded to an abominable pseudo-devotee who tries to use his political expertise and experience to poison others with speculative impersonalistic nonsense.
I remember that you whined over the loss of some of your students you allegedly had, through the intervention of some ISKCON Guru's followers... Now you try attempt to do the same thing. Babaji has not withdrawn himself for a week from the forum and you start to spread this ridiculous nonsense about sex-life and mayavada-philosophy, trying to set up our students against Babaji and his close disciples who counteract this. But your current post makes it clear that you can't have any ethics, because you have completely deviated from the actual path that Srila Prabhupada taught. But despite of that you claim a role as one of his senior disciples and you even try to announce yourself a spiritual teacher on these forums. We can not tolerate this poisonous mentality.
In order to refute the nonsense you stated above I will extensively quote sastra to show in detail that the position towards mayavada-philosophy you presented does not - in any way - go along with the philosophical and ethical standards and conclusions of our sampradaya.
Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita:
"For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progrese in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied." [Bhagavad-gita 12.5]
Srila Prabhupada comments on this:
"A living entity is eternally an individual soul, and if he wants to merge into the spiritual whole, he may accomplish the realization of the eternal and knowledgeable aspects of his original nature, but the blissful portion is not realized. By the grace of some devotee, such a transcendentalist, highly learned in the process of jñāna-yoga, may come to the point of bhakti-yoga, or devotional service. At that time, long practice in impersonalism also becomes a source of trouble, because he cannot give up the idea. Therefore an embodied soul is always in difficulty with the unmanifest, both at the time of practice and at the time of realization. Every living soul is partially independant, and one should know for certain that this unmanifested realization is against the nature of his spiritual blissful self. One should not take up this process. For every individual living entity the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which entails full engagement in devotional service, is the best way. If one wants to ignore this devotional service, there is the danger of turning to atheism. Thus this process of centering attention on the unmanifested, the inconceivable, which is beyond the approach of the senses, as already expressed in this verse, should never be encouraged at any time, especially in this age. It is not advised by Lord Kṛṣṇa." [Bhagavad-gita 12.5, Purport]
"O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet." [Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.32]
Srila Prabhupada comments:
"There are persons who advocate accepting any process and who say that whatever process one accepts will lead to the same goal, but that is refuted in this verse, where such persons are referred to as vimukta-māninaḥ, signifying that although they think they have attained the highest perfection, in fact they have not. In the present day, big, big politicians all over the world think that by scheming they can occupy the highest political post, that of president or prime minister, but we actually see that even in this life such big prime ministers, presidents and other politicians, because of being nondevotees, fall down (patanty adhaḥ). To become president or prime minister is not easy; one must work very hard (āruhya kṛcchreṇa) to achieve the post. And even though one may reach his goal, at any moment one may be kicked down by material nature. In human society there have been many instances in which great, exalted politicians have fallen from government and become lost in historical oblivion. The cause of this is aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: [SB 10.2.32] their intelligence is impure. The śāstra says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). One achieves the perfection of life by becoming a devotee of Viṣṇu, but people do not know this. Therefore, as stated in Bhagavad-gītā (12.5), kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Persons who do not ultimately accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead and take to devotional service, but who instead are attached to impersonalism and voidism, must undergo great labor to achieve their goals.
śreyaḥ-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho
kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye
(SB 10.14.4)
To achieve understanding, such persons work very hard and undergo severe austerities, but their hard labor and austerities themselves are their only achievement, for they do not actually achieve the real goal of life." [Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.2.32, Purport]
“Everything about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is spiritual, including His body, opulence and paraphernalia. Māyāvāda philosophy, however, covering His spiritual opulence, advocates the theory of impersonalism." [Caitanya-caritāmṛta Adi, 7.112]
“The Buddhists do not recognize the authority of the Vedas; therefore they are considered agnostics. However, those who have taken shelter of the Vedic scriptures yet preach agnosticism in accordance with the Māyāvāda philosophy are certainly more dangerous than the Buddhists." [Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya, 6.168]
Srila Prabhupada comments:
"Although the Buddhists are directly opposed to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, it can easily be understood that the Śaṅkarites are more dangerous because they accept the authority of the Vedas yet act contrary to Vedic instruction. Vedāśraya nāstikya-vāda means “agnosticism under the shelter of Vedic culture” and refers to the monistic philosophy of the Māyāvādīs. Lord Buddha abandoned the authority of the Vedic literature and therefore rejected the ritualistic ceremonies and sacrifices recommended in the Vedas. His nirvāṇa philosophy means stopping all material activities. Lord Buddha did not recognize the presence of transcendental forms and spiritual activities beyond the material world. He simply described voidism beyond this material existence. The Māyāvādī philosophers offer lip service to Vedic authority but try to escape the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. They concoct some idea of a transcendental position and call themselves Nārāyaṇa, or God. However, God’s position is completely different from their concoction. Such Māyāvādī philosophers consider themselves above the influence of karma-kāṇḍa (fruitive activities and their reactions). For them, the spiritual world is equated with the Buddhist voidism. There is very little difference between impersonalism and voidism. Voidism can be directly understood, but the impersonalism enunciated by Māyāvādī philosophers is not very easily understandable. Of course, Māyāvādī philosophers accept a spiritual existence, but they do not know about the spiritual world and spiritual beings. According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.2.32):
ye ’nye ’ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho ’nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ
The intelligence of the Māyāvādīs is not purified; therefore even though they practice austerities for self-realization, they cannot remain within the impersonal brahmajyoti. Consequently, they fall down again into this material world.
The Māyāvādīs’ conception of spiritual existence is almost identical to the negation of material existence. The Māyāvādīs believe that there is nothing positive in spiritual life. As a result, they cannot understand devotional service or the worship of the Supreme Person, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. The Māyāvādī philosophers consider Deity worship in devotional service to be pratibimba-vāda, or the worship of a form that is the reflection of a false material form. Thus the Lord’s transcendental form, which is eternally blissful and full of knowledge, is unknown to Māyāvādī philosophers. Although the term “Bhagavān” is explicitly described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, they cannot understand it. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: “The Absolute Truth is called Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān.” (SB 1.2.11) The Māyāvādīs try to understand Brahman only, or, at the most, Paramātmā. However, they are unable to understand Bhagavān. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Because of the temperament of the Māyāvādī philosophers, real knowledge is taken from them. Because they cannot receive the mercy of the Lord, they will always be bewildered by His transcendental form. Impersonal philosophy destroys the three phases of knowledge—jñāna, jñeya and jñātā. As soon as one speaks of knowledge, there must be a person who is the knower, the knowledge itself and the object of knowledge. Māyāvāda philosophy combines these three categories; therefore the Māyāvādīs cannot understand how the spiritual potencies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead act. Because of their poor fund of knowledge, they cannot understand the distinction in the spiritual world between knowledge, the knower and the object of knowledge. Because of this, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu considers the Māyāvādī philosophers more dangerous than the Buddhists." [Caitanya-caritāmṛta Madhya, 6.168, Purport]
To misrepresent the writings of past-acaryas and the teachings of the Lord to favor your misconceptions and whimsical speculations is not at all acceptable.
To quote from the text by Bhaktivinoda Thakur which you have even failed to reference or to link to:
"Satvata-dharma, or nonsectarian Vaisnava-dharma, is the living entities constitutional, or eternal, religious principles. The Vaisnava principles that are found in the Mayavada-sampradaya are only indirect imitations of those principles. When such sectarian Vaisnava principles become transcendental, that is, when they are freed from impersonalism, then they become Satvata-dharma, or religious principles related with the Supreme Truth. The different sampradayas, namely dvaita (dualism) dvaitadvaita (simultaneous oneness and difference), suddhadvaita ( purified oneness), and visistadvaita (specific monism) that are found in satvata-dharma are nothing but wonderful varieties of sentiments within the Vaisnava science. Actually the various sampradayas are not the result of differences in the basic truth. Impersonalism is diametrically opposite to the science of bhakti. Those Vaisnavas who have accepted impersonalism are not pure Vaisnavas. "
As it is clearly visible you have, in a disgusting spirit, deliberately ripped a part of Bhaktivinoda's text out of context to make it appear as if he would support the nonsense you are propagating.
We can't accept people like you, who claim to be devotees but who are actually backstabbing vaisnava-culture and philosophy on our forums. That is why we have removed your posting priveleges.
Furthermore I would like to share some personal information about the spiritual teacher in question in this thread:
When Maharishi Mahesh Yogi first came to the U.S. he stayed in Los Angeles in the house of a family. (The name of this family is not of importance. This story was delivered to Babaji by a direct witness of these events.)
The family had a little daughter and "Maharishi" repeatedly abused her sexually. This is the nature of impersonalists. They can not control their senses. They are demons - as mentioned above. Similar examples can be found in the biographies of "Satya Sai Baba" or Rashneesh.
"As for those who are impersonalists and who want to commit spiritual suicide by annihilating the individual existence of the living entity, Kṛṣṇa helps also by absorbing them into His effulgence. Such impersonalists do not agree to accept the eternal, blissful Personality of Godhead; consequently they cannot relish the bliss of transcendental personal service to the Lord, having extinguished their individuality." [Bhagavad-gita 4.11, Purport]
I hope this answers all open questions the interested reader might have had.
Hare Krsna
Rupanuga Dasa
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David Bruce hues says:
Dear Inci,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
The problem with You Will Attain Me is fixed. Thanks for letting me know.
The Holy Name is completely spiritual, so it has no material effects. But it does change our consciousness, removing the darkness of ignorance and revealing the Absolute Truth. In material consciousness we are actually insane, because we accept the body as the self. In normal circumstances we can hide our madness from ourselves, but when we chant the Holy Name of the Lord, everything is revealed in clarity.
So what is happening is that you are seeing for the first time how crazy you really are. Naturally this is a bit scary, but it will pass. The effect of material happiness is like nectar in the beginning and poison at the end; but the effect of the Holy Name is like poison in the beginning and nectar in the end.
Re: Chanting mantras and speed
by David Bruce Hughes - Monday, September 1, 2008, 12:04 PM
Dear Angelina,
Hare Kṛṣṇa! Please accept my blessings. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
It sounds like you are completely in illusion. The romantic ideal is based on sex attraction, and it is just sense gratification. The Vedas are very clear about what is acceptable sex life under regulative principles. We are not interested in your personal opinion in the matter, we are interested in what the scriptures say:
samaṁ kāya-śiro-grīvaṁ dhārayann acalaṁ sthiraḥ
samprekṣya nāsikāgraṁ svaṁ diśaś cānavalokayan
praśāntātmā vigata-bhīr brahmacāri-vrate sthitaḥ
manaḥ saṁyamya mac-citto yukta āsīta mat-paraḥ
"One should hold one's body, neck and head erect in a straight line and stare steadily at the tip of the nose. Thus, with an unagitated, subdued mind, devoid of fear, completely free from sex life, one should meditate upon Me within the heart and make Me the ultimate goal of life." [Bhagavad-gītā 6.13-14]
This Forum is not for propagating your personal opinions, but for discussing the Absolute Truths of the Esoteric Teaching. If you continue to abuse your posting privileges, we will be forced to withdraw them.
Kṛṣṇa teaches that all actions performed or personal enjoyment create karma, which binds us to material existence:
yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra
loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ
tad-arthaṁ karma kaunteya
mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara
"Work done as a sacrifice for Viṣṇu has to be performed, otherwise work binds one to this material world. Therefore, O son of Kuntī, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain unattached and free from bondage." [Bhagavad-gītā 3.9]
Therefore according to the Esoteric Teaching, the only acceptable use for sex life is creating God-conscious children by performance of the garbhādāna-saṁskāra:
"There are so many things, such as the garbhādāna, or seed-giving, ceremony. Even when sex is employed properly, for begetting a child, it is not undertaken secretly, without anyone else’s knowledge. There should be a ceremonial function, garbhādāna-saṁskāra. All the brāhmaṇas and relatives come, and everyone knows, 'Some time soon, this man is going to have sex for begetting a child.' So there is a dignified heralding. Not that sexual activity is simply done in the heat of the moment, like cats and dogs."
You have written me so many long emails complaining about how the men in your life have mistreated you, and how much you have suffered in pursuit of this unattainable desire for love in the material world. Still you want to maintain this nonsense that sex for personal sense gratification is OK. Actually I think that people like you and William are not fully sane or rational, otherwise how you can maintain such contradictory thoughts within your mind?
You have not understood anything of the Esoteric Teaching; all of our hard work is lost on you. You have not learned anything after all this time, either from us or from the experiences of your own life. Simply you remain on the sentimental platform of your own mental speculation. This is animal consciousness.
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
"One who identifies his self as the inert body composed of mucus, bile and air, who assumes his wife and family are permanently his own, who thinks an earthen image or the land of his birth is worshipable, or who sees a place of pilgrimage as merely the water there, but who never identifies himself with, feels kinship with, worships or even visits those who are wise in spiritual truth—such a person is no better than a cow or an ass." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 10.84.13]
The only real love is Kṛṣṇa's eternal, unconditional love for His parts and parcels, the living entities. Everyone else will cheat you. All other kinds of love are temporary and conditional, therefore they are material and false, part of The Big Lie.
How many times do we have to say this before you get it? Your hope of finding love in this material world is a false hope, exactly like a mirage of water in the desert. There is no water in the desert, therefore if we think we see water in the distance, it is simply a mirage. Similarly, if we think that love is available in this material world, it is just an illusion. You have to get past this illusion once and for all before you can make any meaningful spiritual progress.
love,
Baba
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Re: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - Genuine Spiritual Teacher?
by Neville Clemens - Sunday, August 31, 2008, 04:13 PM
Dear Mathias,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
No, we do not accept Maharishi as a bona fide spiritual teacher because he is an impersonalist who denies the personality of God and does not teach the highest philosophy, which is the attainment of the perfect love relationship with God. That is also why he only commented on the first six chapters of the Bhagavad-Gita, carefully avoiding the rest of the Gita that deals with devotional service and other such personal aspects of God and spiritual life. So we reject such teachers that hold back spiritual knowledge and furthermore, indulge in the ridiculous practice of selling mantras to people who are foolish enough to by them because they want some easy spiritual knick-knack in their life.
Please listen to these podcasts for a primer on the dangers and logical fallacies of the impersonalist philosophy:
• Seduced by Untruth
• 'Oneness' means nothingness
• I don't see the connection
No, instead we accept someone like Srila Prabhupada as a bona fide spiritual master. He has kindly translated and provided a beautiful and authoritative commentary on the Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. Not only that, he has translated many other priceless Vedic literatures and you can read them all for free here. Similarly, this is also an esoteric school that freely gives out the highest spiritual knowledge, holding nothing back. The price is the sincerity of the student. You may have some difficult un-learning to do, but of course it is possible and you can start by reading this and following our curriculum.
Love,
Neville
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Re: Mukti and Moksha
by Rūpānuga Dāsa - Sunday, August 31, 2008, 06:08 PM
Dear Jim,
To quote Dinesh D'souza, "I feel like a mosquito in a nudist-colony -- I don't know where to start."
Obviously you have no clue what you are talking about. Your speculative new-age meditations are not of interest on these forums. And if you had read Srila Prabhupada's Gita I wouldn't need to explain this to you.
You can't just read confidential spiritual material that has been passed down for thousands and millions of years from Guru to disciple without studying the purports given therein. But that you do so shows that all you want to do is to speculate about this 'lightsoul'-nonsense, which you have failed to describe properly due to your confusion of so called spiritual terminology. (For example: "Even my goal isn't to be in my lightsoul when I die, it is good for me when I'm talking about my experience to other that want to hear about it,..." - this sentence alone shows that you are not qualified to recieve any deeper answer from the students on these forums, because you have made no attempt to even study the very basics of our philosophy and hence all you do is steal our time with your speculations...)
Another thing is that when a student instructs you on something, you should accept that and meditate upon that, so that you can understand what that person tries to tell you. But instead you believe that you already know everything you need to know about spiritual life and therefore you go and make your first post on the forum for advanced students.
Then you foolishly critisize the Gita because it doesn't still your hunger after cheap experiences.
I am not willing to list all of the nonsense in your post but I will give you a simple choice: Either you stick to our rules, standards and curriculum or you go and find another place where people are more appreciative for impersonalistic speculation.
We are a real spiritual school. Our system gives knowledge from a higher source to the students through disciplic succession. So when a senior student answers your post, you should be thankful that he took his time to do so. You should read these responds very carefully, because they are written by someone who has a higher realization and understanding than you. If you can't deal with that because of your false ego, it is your problem and not ours.
Love and Respect
Hare Krsna
Rupanuga Dasa
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One should not associate with a coarse fool who is bereft of the knowledge of self-realization and who is no more than a dancing dog in the hands of a woman." [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.31.34]
Such fools may appear in the dress of devotees and speak eloquently with all reason and argument, but they are still in the animalistic consciousness of sense enjoyment; therefore their association must be avoided. Certainly they cannot be allowed to speak freely in an association of transcendentalists such as our esoteric school. Therefore we are very firm to restrict their influence and activities, just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. This is the path that leads to knowledge.
love,
Baba
Re: David Bruce Hughes
Posted by:
jkI2efLqwv
()
Date: October 29, 2011 05:46PM
Dear friends,
I know this is an old thread, but I have some important and urgent news regarding David Bruce Hughes. It turns out he has been involved in all types of illicit activities from having gay-BDSM-sadomasochistic sex with his disciples to forcing them to ingest mind-altering drugs in order to brainwash them.
There are also around 400 explicit pictures circulating around the internet depicting this psychopath carrying out various shocking and shameful activities.
I have made a blog detailing all of the revelations as well as experiences of his former disciples. Our only hope is that this awareness will prevent any innocent victims from falling prey to this psychopath's devious schemes in the future.
http://dbh.blogspot.com
Please check out the blog at the link above.
I know this is an old thread, but I have some important and urgent news regarding David Bruce Hughes. It turns out he has been involved in all types of illicit activities from having gay-BDSM-sadomasochistic sex with his disciples to forcing them to ingest mind-altering drugs in order to brainwash them.
There are also around 400 explicit pictures circulating around the internet depicting this psychopath carrying out various shocking and shameful activities.
I have made a blog detailing all of the revelations as well as experiences of his former disciples. Our only hope is that this awareness will prevent any innocent victims from falling prey to this psychopath's devious schemes in the future.
http://dbh.blogspot.com
Please check out the blog at the link above.
Re: David Bruce Hughes
Posted by:
jkI2efLqwv
()
Date: October 30, 2011 05:40AM
Sorry the link is actually [dbhexposed.blogspot.com] , not what I posted above.
Re: David Bruce Hues/ Essoteric Teachings
Posted by:
JeomoJaMDor
()
Date: November 01, 2011 03:22AM
Indeed, DBH has escaped to Soberg, Norway. He was residing in India. Indians don't like that Homo stuff. He would either be thrown in jail or worse. In India a Guru involved in Homosexual relationship is considered the most sinful act in India. Punishment by death or life in prison.
Please don't be victim, DBH is a sociopath. He knows how to juggle words and make you a victim. He cheated a lot of honest people. Now he is running around with 100k in gold and silver metals. So if you see him make sure to inform the cops. Or better yet..punch him in the face for us.
He also has two or three homosexual students. Their names are Conor Ryan (Kanai Dasa) he is Irish total sociopath, under DBH's control and another named Marino Klisovich (Maha-marga Dasa) from Zagreb, Croatia.
Also another student might be associated with him named Ulises Guerrero aka Uddhava Dasa he is from Mexico. Ulises is currently in Miami Florida.
[dbhexposed.blogspot.com]
Do a search on youtube..
Hare Krsna.
Please don't be victim, DBH is a sociopath. He knows how to juggle words and make you a victim. He cheated a lot of honest people. Now he is running around with 100k in gold and silver metals. So if you see him make sure to inform the cops. Or better yet..punch him in the face for us.
He also has two or three homosexual students. Their names are Conor Ryan (Kanai Dasa) he is Irish total sociopath, under DBH's control and another named Marino Klisovich (Maha-marga Dasa) from Zagreb, Croatia.
Also another student might be associated with him named Ulises Guerrero aka Uddhava Dasa he is from Mexico. Ulises is currently in Miami Florida.
[dbhexposed.blogspot.com]
Do a search on youtube..
Hare Krsna.
Re: David Bruce Hughes
Posted by:
jkI2efLqwv
()
Date: May 15, 2012 11:56AM
I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to update with some new information.
David Bruce Hughes is now going by the name of Davíd Alleón
Davíd Alleón aka David Bruce Hughes is currently living in Spain and is trying to lure yet another batch of naive knowledge-seekers into yet another cult with his blatant mind control and "ontological reprogramming" techniques.
David Bruce Hughes is now going by the name of Davíd Alleón
Davíd Alleón aka David Bruce Hughes is currently living in Spain and is trying to lure yet another batch of naive knowledge-seekers into yet another cult with his blatant mind control and "ontological reprogramming" techniques.
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