How did you catch on that you were in a set up that turned out to be a cult, or
a front for a cult?

Substitute "abusive" if you feel that the term "cult" does not quite apply.

Here is an article that gives signs of a potentially bad employment situation.

Quotations are brief excerpts. The entire article is well worth a peek.

Ten Unmistakable Signs Of A Bad Place To Work

[www3.forbes.com]

The authors of "Ten Unmistakable Signs of a Bad Place to Work" do not refer to cults. However, much of this advice can be extrapolated to assist us in recognizing whether a church or human potential or good cause organization is potentially cultic.

The Forbes article gives a list of clues indicating control freak behavior on the part of a potential employer.

If it is a bad place to earn a living, it is a bad place in which to meditate, pray, do yoga or work for world peace.

Refusal to Give Interviewees the Employee Handbook

You need this document to learn what you need to make an informed decision.
Information is power. Refusal to give you a copy of the employee handbook or a copy of the liability waiver form to read and examine at home prior to participation in an event or workshop denies you information you need and deserve to have.

If a guru, human potential leader, retreat leader refuse to give you a copy of the waiver/release of liability form so that you can go home and examine it at leisure --beware.

[forum.culteducation.com]

If a guru or human potential group requires its members to keep its methods secret and states that newbies never be told what is done at retreats and seminars, beware. You cannot make a fully informed decision if you are not told what will be done to you.

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An employee handbook is a window to the corporate soul. Reading the employee handbook will give you enormous clues to the company’s culture. If they won’t give you a handbook, run away then and there!

You need a copy of that employee handbook so you can learn what you are getting into before you sign on the dotted line. Here is what you can learn from reading
a copy of that handbook. Such as:

No-Moonlighting Policy.

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A No-Moonlighting policy is a rule that says that if you work for this company, you can’t have another, part-time job. Why would that be any of their business, if you’re showing up to work and getting your work done?

No-References Policy

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You won’t find this policy in the employee handbook, so it is important that you ask your interviewer about it. Ask them whether the company’s managers are allowed to provide references for their former employees. In many large organizations, they are not.....only fearful leaders put No-Reference Policies in place. They couldn’t care less whether the No-Reference Policy makes it harder for their former teammates to get a new job. No-Reference Policies are unethical and should be illegal but they’re not, so proceed with caution!

Progressive Discipline

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If the handbook talks about Progressive Discipline, get out of Dodge immediately! You are an adult. You are not a wayward third-grader who needs to worry about getting sent to the principal’s office. Progressive Discipline policies that line out the punishments employees will receive for a first infraction, second infraction, etc. are holdovers from the Industrial Revolution and have no place in the Knowledge Economy we are working in now.

Payroll Deductions

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Some old-school companies will take money out of your paycheck for stupid things. You will see these policies written out in the employee handbook if they have them in place........
Any company that wants to take money out of your paycheck (for a piece of equipment that breaks while you’re using it, e.g.) is not a place you want to work for.

Dictated Hours

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I collect employee handbooks. At least 30% of the 100 or so employee handbooks on my hard drive specify the number of hours the company expects you to work — and I’m talking about salaried employees who do not get paid a penny for overtime.......

Managers Control Internal Transfers

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In good companies, employees bid on internal jobs they are interested in. If they get the job, then their new manager and their old manager will talk about a transition plan to get the employee into their new position without leaving the former manager in the lurch.

In bad companies, managers control their employees’ internal transfer and promotion opportunities.....

Companies that don’t understand the difference between machines that can be controlled by humans, and talented employees who can’t be controlled, don’t deserve your talents.

Formal Performance Management

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Performance Management is the name of a popular HR hoax and scam that turns any job into a series of tasks and goals that you’ll be held accountable for on a daily, weekly and monthly basis. No job worth doing breaks down into tiny, measurable parts.

No Casual Time

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When you read a potential employer’s employee handbook, pay special attention to the section of the handbook that focuses on paid time off. Good companies understand that in addition to scheduled vacation time and unscheduled sick time, normal adults need occasional days off to deal with real life.

You might have to take your cat to the vet one day or be called into a meeting at your kids’ school without notice. Good companies have personal time or casual time you can use for those real-life situations.......

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Pay Grades Make the Man (or Woman)

Also pay close attention to the discussion of pay grades in the employee handbook you are reading, and listen on your job interviews when people talk about pay grades and levels. ...

In some organizations you hear people say “Don’t call him — he’s an E5, and he won’t answer your call because you’re only an E3.” They say these things without irony. They think it’s normal to rank and evaluate people based on their title and pay grade....

Interview Process

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Last on our list of bad-company giveaways is the interviewing process itself. If people return your calls and email messages, treat you kindly during the interview process and generally seem to value your time and talents, that’s a great thing.

If they leave you waiting for weeks between each contact, give you endless tests and assignments and behave as though they are members of the royal family and you are a piece of dirt under their feet, don’t stick around!

*(Corboy note: by contrast, many cults treat you like royalty when trying to rope you in -especially if they suspect you have money or prestige. Keep your eyes and ears open and watch how they treat underlings. Are you ever able to have private chats with the people who clean the ashram, look after the guru's swimming pool? See how they are treated. If you are never able to meet the underlings -- avoid this set up. If kept a member of the guru's entourage, you are in a bubble and will be kept ignorant. Worse, you may turn into as abusive a person as your new buddy the guru. Humans are shaped by their social surroundings. No one is immune. Choose your social environment carefully -- and diversify it. )

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waiver/release of liability form

What is that thing ?

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If a guru or human potential group requires its members to keep its methods secret and states that newbies never be told what is done at retreats and seminars, beware.

I think there can be good reasons for secrecy:

1. If you started on the topic of employment, companies will try to secure valuable know-how.

2. A psychologist I know visited a professional training course, where they were asked not to disclose the content of some roleplaying exercises, because a new person attending the course in the future was supposed to react in a spontaneous way rather than planned.

3. I went to a sort of martial arts course, where we were asked not to show the exercises to other people, because they might learn them the wrong way, possibly leading to wrong results.

Other points don't seem to be portable to the "cults" topic.

I didnt say this was completely transferable, just made a suggestion.

The kind of waiver form to watch out for is illustrated here.

[forum.culteducation.com]

> I think there can be good reasons for secrecy:
>
> 1. If you started on the topic of employment,
> companies will try to secure valuable know-how.
>
> 2. A psychologist I know visited a professional
> training course, where they were asked not to
> disclose the content of some roleplaying
> exercises, because a new person attending the
> course in the future was supposed to react in a
> spontaneous way rather than planned.
>
> 3. I went to a sort of martial arts course, where
> we were asked not to show the exercises to other
> people, because they might learn them the wrong
> way, possibly leading to wrong results.
>
> Other points don't seem to be portable to the
> "cults" topic.

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and secret proceedings..."

President John F. Kennedy, Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, April 27, 1961

[www.zdnet.com]

If you’re a private organization, unless somebody complains, you can be as secretive as you want, especially with policies and trade secrets; but, if you’re fully or partly funded by taxpayers’ money, you have a social obligation to answer to public inquiries.

Tax-exempted religious organizations are considered partly funded by taxpayers' money. In an open society, inquiry is king.

Privacy is negotiated in a context of fair dealing and mutual respect. Privacy is
consensual and all parties know all of the background information.

Secrecy is done in the context of a power imbalance and in which the underlings
are not given all information needed to give un coerced consent.

Secrecy and fear go together. One feels trapped. The power holder desires control.

What we are objecting to is secrecy.

Here are some other posts about secrecy

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

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If you’re a private organization, unless somebody complains, you can be as secretive as you want, especially with policies and trade secrets; but, if you’re fully or partly funded by taxpayers’ money, you have a social obligation to answer to public inquiries.

Tax-exempted religious organizations are considered partly funded by taxpayers' money. In an open society, inquiry is king.

I was assuming there is a limit so such openness, such as what assets are being moved. As opposed to being open about all activities.

But of course that would happen to the extent that is required by the law (which I don't know).

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Privacy is negotiated in a context of fair dealing and mutual respect. Privacy is
consensual and all parties know all of the background information.

Secrecy is done in the context of a power imbalance and in which the underlings
are not given all information needed to give un coerced consent.

My point is about information control, we can use secrecy or another word:

If a person or group has some information, they would naturally exert control over what and to whom is being disclosed. And it would be their decision to negotiate.

Calling that "power imbalance" is too dramatic. It's quite simply an issue that I know something that you don't.

I can object to somebody being untruthful, but I see no objection to information control.

I guess that I'm saying that information control is the default and limited openness could be negotiated, while you're saying that openness is the default and privacy is to be negotiated.

We can disagree.

The topic of this thread is for interested readers to describe
what is useful in identifying bad situations and either getting out
quickly or avoiding recruitment altogether.

Yes, there is a limit to everything. As there is a limit to openness, the same applies to secrecy. Reason dictates what is considered sacred and a non-issue. It’s when the arcane becomes questionable and hurtful, that it must be subjected to inquiry and open debate. In an open society, you can hold certain knowledge as divine and is protected by the law. Gods and secret knowledge, just like trade formulas and corporate policies have a place in an open society, but they have to be defensible when questioned. Outside reason, is a free-for-all, that if society gets too coy about, can obviously lead to victimization of the innocent or the impressionable, like the children. Religious cults, unfortunately, will always push the envelope. That’s their nature and how they thrive. Under the guise of divine knowledge (secret to public), a guru, let’s say, will feed his toe nails to followers as a form of a sacrament or will separate children from parents so the devotional service is not disrupted. These and other weird things going on behind closed door, citizens must bring up for an open debate and intelligible inquiry.

Another scenario:

Suppose a person is being courted by a group.

Suppose that group owns a high upkeep building, constructed at a cost of
millions of dollars, that will cost thousands of dollars to maintain.
Vast gardents to be trimmed and maintained, large ponds that require
regular cleaning, stone walls that go grimy from freeway traffic and
need expensive washing.

This building is an eyesore, the neighbors hate it, and just a few
initiated members are allowed access to it.

Suppose this same group has just this couple hundred members, increasingly elderly, and the guru and senior members are housed in palatial surroundings and need increasingly high levels of menial service.

Younger, stronger members are needed to provide all that help, take care of the palace.

A prospective recruit needs to know all of this so that he or she
can assess whether the group loves her for her true self, or just wants
a menial to wait upon its increasingly decrepit and senior elite and its nasty
tempered guru.

A menial who will bear all this bad temper in the name of surrendering ego to the Master.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2016 02:42AM by corboy.

I understand your point about having discernment and being aware of red flags. As part of my own process of reconciling my time in a cult, I had to consider why I first joined. For me, I was vulnerable and not well informed. I know that going forward, whether in work settings or in any area of my life, I need to have a healthy level of skepticism, lots of critical thinking and research red flags that people have pointed out before me.

Thanks for posting from the article. Looks like a good read!

Cheers, Ash.