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Originally posted by letGodbetrue
"The belief in a man-god was a pagan idea. That's why the Jews, the inventors of monotheism, rejected the idea of a God incarnate in the form of Jesus or anyone else. They rejected the Pharoe as God, the gods of Greece, Rome, Philistian, etc..."

First of all, are you getting this information about who the Jews accepted and rejected from the Bible?
(RMG's reply:The Jews have a whole host of commentaries on the Bible (Torah as they call it) many of which were written a long time ago. I don't believe in the bible and it's miracles. I believe the Bible is the work of man not God.)

I believe it is a God-inspired, infallible book, but do you? The reason the Jews rejected the gods of their neighboring nations/cultures was because God told them to. The Jewish religion still anticpates the arrival of a messiah, but they are expecting a military ruler like David- a man, in spite of Isaiah 9:6 and others.

(RMG's reply: The Jews are expecting 2 messiahs acutally. A messiah son of David like Solomon who will be a man of peace. He will rebuild the Temple and establish a reign of universal brotherhood. The second messiah is descended from Joseph. He is the military leader who will proceed the Messiah Son of David.)

"As a prophet and a teacher, I find Jesus contradictory, sometimes juvenile, other times inspiring. But I find his teachings inferior to those of the Hasidim (the non-meddlesome, non cult like ones)."

Can you be more specific about the derogatory items?
R(RMG's reply: Jesus cursed a fig tree that didn't give him fruit when it wasn't the season for it to bear fruit. That's just one example. His insistance that he was the only person able to interperate Jewish law was another and his claims of Godhood also were laughable to the Jews).

Contradictory? Juvenile?
(Well you cited him as saying "think not that I've come to bring peace..." but the prophets say, ".. he will be called counselor, prince of peace...". Sounds contradictory to me.)




Inferior?

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Originally posted by richardmgreen

Inferior: Yes, the teachings of the Kabbablists, go deeply into God's reasons for creating the universe, not just into a cosmogony and cosmology. Breslov also publishes a lot of works and I've studied other Jewish traditions. But I'm not bogged down in keeping Kosher, Sabbath, Negiya etc. anymore.

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Originally posted by letGodbetrue
I'm not familiar with any passage that indicates that Jesus said He was the only one able to interpret the Law.
(RMG"s reply: Jesus said that he ".. am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the father but by me.." If that isn't claiming to have the only interperatations I don't know what is. But contrast most rabbinic authorities I met will tell you to compare notes and not to take their opinion as final. Only a top rabbi (a "Gadol Hador") would think otherwise at all and even he would also t ell you to come to your own conclusions".)



I know that many times the Jewish rulers tried to trap Jesus because they were jealous of His popularity, and He used the Scriptures to show them their errors. What did you mean?
(RMG's reply: Jesus invoked "honor your father and mother" when it came to who should get the sacrifices offerings. I forgot which verse this is but I never personally understood his point.
Also, Jesus was mostly effective with people who weren't learned Jews. The educated Jews pretty much ignored him. And the biggest problems he had he generated himself, not because of scriptural passages but because he kept calling certain Pharisees 'hypocrites" etc.. The Jews were under persecution from Rome at the time and the last thing they needed was some one with what they considered to be a half baked knowledge of Judaism to be calling them hypocrites.)




His claims of Godhood weren't laughable to them, they took Him very seriously and tried to kill Him for it on several occasions. Of course your point is they didn't believe Him, which is still true today.
(RMG's reply: Judaism doesn't believe in the concept of the messiah being God incarnate. There is no second opinion on this.
And Jesus' calling himself the "Son of Man" or the "Son of God" isn't exactly the same as calling himself god incarnate. The latter was probably due to the Eastern mystery religions influence on Xianty.)

I don't find the titles used for the Messiah inconsistent or contradictory in the example you've offered. Prince of Peace or Consuming Fire, those are roles that Jesus has as He fulfills prophecy. Sort of like a policeman, he is an agent of peace and can be violent also- not contradictory, just different roles fulfilled by the same person. There is a context for each statement.
(RMG"s reply: It's an interesting argument but it doesn't hold according to the Jewish belief in 2 messiahs not one. The Messiah son of David will be totally a man of peace.)


Do you believe that sin is real? If so, what is your definition? If it's bad, how do you deal with it?
(RMG's reply: Sin is more a focus in Xianity than in Judaism. But if a person sin's being forgiven requires making amends to an injured party. In Judaism there are different categories of laws:
Laws between man and man (Adom l'adom) and laws between man and God (adom l'Hashem). The latter sins are taken care of on Yom Kippur. But between man and man, a person must go to the offended party and make good.
I've never found a better explanation that the above. But in the final analysis, you have to be careful of what you do.
Even jesus or was it Paul said, "faith without works is dead".

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Originally posted by letGodbetrue
Your quote from Jesus (John 14:6) was merely a statement to set their expectations. He wasn't saying only He could interpret scripture. Many times Jesus told them 'Haven't you read...' Like He told them about David eating the 'Show bread', (Matt 12:3-5), or when they asked Him about divorce (Matt 19:4).
(RMG's reply: Nevertheless, Protestants can divorce. And I'm sure what you call the show bread has laws set forth in the Jewish extrabiblical works which predate JC by centuries. You're only hearing JC's point of view, the Jews have rebuttals to all of his teachings.)


I think He encouraged them to read it for them selves. He showed them their beloved scripture and explained it to them in such a way they stopped asking Him questions after the incident with the adulterous woman. (John 8:5)
(RMG's reply: Jesus' interperatations were just seen as coming from left field. I'm sure the Jewish leaders of his day basically didn't take him too seriously and neither did most Jews who were part of the mainstream Jewish faith of that day. It was only people who didn't have a good grounding in Judaism who followed him.)



"Jesus invoked "honor your father and mother" when it came to who should... I forgot which verse this is but I never personally understood his point." I'm not familiar with this either.

"The educated Jews pretty much ignored him." I agree, He was 'upsetting the apple cart' so to speak.
(RMG's reply: He was probably seen as very bizarre. And his logic had nothing to do with classical Jewish thought.)


He was challenging their positions of authority. He called the Pharisees hypocrites because they required common people to do things which they themselves didn't do.
(RMG's reply:Where did you get this impression from?)