I have long been interested in the definition of "cult," having been raised (fourth generation) Seventh Day Adventist and eventually leaving the church. I'm not sure labeling is always helpful - if something "is" or "isn't" a cult, would it matter, as far as the members' experiences? But I remain interested in exploring the issue.

From rickross FAQ, some definitions of cult:

A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.

Ellen G. White is the prophetess of Seventh Day Adventism. Her writings are held up as equal in stature to the Bible. My cousin was excommunicated for exposing Ellen White's plagiarism of other authors. To this day, belief in (including coercive belief) remains strong.

A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.

Coercive persuasion is an unfortunate aspect of many Christian sects, whether or not they count as "cults." But yes, Adventism is rife with coercive persuasion; if you don't come to church, you would get a phone call or a visit that day.

Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

Economic exploitation is rife in Adventism; the upper "tier" lives very well, enjoying large salaries based in great part on the "tithing" system (all members donate 10% of their income to the church--even children have "tithe" banks for their allowance.) Many SDAs in the lower tier live at subsistence-level (we certainly did). Racism was built into the economic exploitation; there was something called "Section 1" and "Section 2" housing. "Section 2" consisted of bigger houses, finer furnishing, and was--ironically--for the visiting white staff, whereas the local, native staff lived in "Section 1."

The experience of Adventism varies widely from country to country, and town to town, and time to time. Adventism has certainly modernized and liberalized in some larger American cities, although overseas Adventism remains ultra-conservative. There are very liberal churches now, as well as staunchly hardline communities whose behaviors are the very definition of "cult."

I don't use cult pejoratively; I love my Adventist family and friends, and had a loving, caring upbringing. However, I truly feel Adventism continues to exhibit many aspects of a cult.

Does anyone else here have thoughts on, or experiences with, Adventism? I would welcome the discussion!

See [www.culteducation.com]

Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:

1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.

2. A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.

3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

* Don't some groups once seen as "cults" often move more into the mainstream, becoming generally respected sects or religions?

Yes. There are certainly examples of groups that were once perhaps thought of as "cults" that have evolved into relatively mainstream sects or religions. Such examples as the Seventh Day Adventists once led by Ellen White, or the Mormons, also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.

But it is also important to note that some groups, which may have once been labeled as "cults" continue to be controversial due to their unsafe or destructive practices. Two examples of groups that continue to be problematic and often destructive are the former Russellites, now known as "Jehovah's Witnesses," that once prohibited organ transplants and still expects its members to refuse blood transfusions, which has resulted in numerous deaths. And the Christian Scientists founded by Mary Baker Eddy who often reject medical treatment, again resulting in the loss of life. Some groups may say they have renounced unsafe or destructive practices, only to be exposed later as guilty of the same extremes and abuses.

Whatever anyone outside thinks, I was raised in Seventh Day Adventism, and in my opinion, it's a cult.

It has not reformed into some mainstream religion; in fact, the current president, Ted Wilson, is making all upper-level employees of the church (physicians, professors, lawyers, college presidents) sign a "loyalty contract" in order to keep their jobs.

It reminds me of the Chinese government - liberalizing through the '90s, and now suddenly backsliding (to use Adventist dialect).

Sile,
In any religious group, political group,or social group there can often be negative experiences.A group of people together are always going to have dynamics , power plays , people who are in, people who are out, people who have more or less money or respect than others. Its the nature of the human animal.
( One of my own personal assessments of group dynamics, with any group is to identify who is "out" and look at how they are treated.That is after all, the bottom line on how badly such a group will potentially be willing to treat you, and says a lot about what kinds of behaviors are and are not tolerated.)
In answer to your question though, the Seventh Day Adventists are imo a valid and kind religion.The Roman Catholic Church ,would also be another example. But that does not mean that individual people within either group may not have had negative or bad experiences. (Take the scandal of priests abusing children for example in the Catholic church.)
Some things that would worry me in any religion ( becuase the issue is about behaviors, not beliefs)
Obviously at the far end of the scale;
Being required to die or commit suicide for the religion.
(Think Jonestown)
Violence as a way of gaining spirituality. ( In some groups people have been expected to beat each other, or physically harm each other so as to "beat out devils", or "increase enlightenment".)
Seperation of parents from their children, parents not being allowed to raise their own children, or not being allowed to make decisions for their own child. Child abuse within the group, particularly where such abuse is condoned and encouraged by the group leaders.
Verbal abuse by the leader as a way of "increasing someone elses spirituality".
Having the leader in some way identify who is the current group scapegoat, and encourage others to attack this person or shun them
Shunning of family members who have not joined the group.
Not being allowed to speak to any family member who is not a member of the group.
Secret sexual relationships betwen the leader and others.
Set ups where the leader gets to sleep with multiple people but followers are expected to be celibate.
Large love donations being given to the leader
No support for members of the group who are poor, in need, old or sick. ( You can tell a great deal about the dynamics in a group by how they treat the people who are no longer useful to them.)
Just some different thoughts, hope some of them are useful to you.
All the best, Yasmin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 01:25AM by yasmin.

Very interested to hear your thoughts, Yasmin!

The definition of cult doesn't require the group to be overtly mean; there are many levels of pressure.

My mother would be told, "When you get to your new station, you are going to do this and that job." There was nothing she could do about it. She would be told, "Upper-level conference people are coming to stay with you. You will host, feed, and transport them for 3 weeks (using your own funds)."

My cousin wrote a book exposing the SDA prophetess as a plagiarist; as a result, when my family returned to America after 6 years of service overseas, my parents were told they were not hirable. The job that had been promised my father was withdrawn, and we were left hanging with no money, no housing and zero savings (the church tells you not to save, because "the lord is coming any day.")

My father nearly died of dysentery as an infant because his parents refused to get him immunized.

Huge tithes and offerings are demanded of the people; if you don't pay tithes and offerings, you will be called in and spoken to. You are told to "live humbly" so that the money can be used for the lord's work. And yet the General Conference higher-ups have huge houses and expensive cars.

If you eat meat, watch TV on Sabbath, listen to the radio, wear jewelry, talk to Catholics, or visit ANY other church, you will be called in for questioning.

The level of "cultness" does depend on the region, and even on the individual church.

Most Adventists are very nice people. However, Adventism fits many, many criteria used to define a cult.

Another odd bit - as a child, we were taught in school that Catholics had what they claimed were wine cellars under their churches, but were in reality, dungeons of some kind. We were told that in the "end times," Catholics would imprison us in these "dungeons." Catholics would first enact "Blue Laws," forbidding us from observing the Sabbath and forcing us instead to work; on Sunday, we would be forced to attend church. Many Adventists have proclaimed loudly that they would choose death rather than worship on Sunday, when the time came. They encouraged their children to think this way.

Absolutely no one will go to heaven, except Adventists. As children we lived in dread that every child we saw in the street was doomed to eternal death, unless we converted them.

As children, we were sent door to door at night, by ourselves (not even in pairs!!) in shady parts of town, to ask strangers for money (this is called "ingathering.) All this money is then turned over to the local church, which forwards it to the region, and then to national headquarters (called the "General Conference.") If we did not participate in ingathering, we were considered "backsliders" (the general name for anyone not doing what the church demanded). Ones job and schooling could be affected at any time by "backsliding." As Adventists, we were pressured to work ONLY for Adventist organizations, and go to school only in Adventist schools. This meant that one was very vulnerable--parents could lose jobs, or children be kicked out of school, if the family didn't "behave."

I could go on.

Quote
Sile
Whatever anyone outside thinks, I was raised in Seventh Day Adventism, and in my opinion, it's a cult.

It has not reformed into some mainstream religion; in fact, the current president, Ted Wilson, is making all upper-level employees of the church (physicians, professors, lawyers, college presidents) sign a "loyalty contract" in order to keep their jobs.

It reminds me of the Chinese government - liberalizing through the '90s, and now suddenly backsliding (to use Adventist dialect).

Yesterday I was riding on a subway train and saw a pretty young lady sitting in her seat and reading a NKJV Bible. I asked her if she was a Christian, and then she replied "No, I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist." I asked her if she believed in the Trinity, if she believes that Jesus Christ IS God. She answered to the affirmative. Then she gave me a paperback book entitled Steps to Christ and abruptly got off the train at the next stop, before we had a chance to speak much. It was a very interesting encounter.

The Dude Abides!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 11:01AM by zeuszor.

I don't receive any complaints about Seventh Day Adventists.

And they have democratically elected church government, such as an elected president who serves a fixed term.

Whatever bad experiences Sile claims to have had as a child, this doesn't make the group a "cult".

The Adventist Church now acknowledges what they call "the borrowings" of Ellen White, i.e. plagiarism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2011 10:22PM by rrmoderator.

These are not my experiences - they are our experiences.

The Adventist church encourages members, at every turn, to accept Ellen G. White's plagiarized writings (including Steps to Christ, mentioned above) as divinely inspired, and further, to respect these writings as one would respect the holy Bible itself.

The Adventist church is indeed concerned with members doubting the Spirit of Prophecy (as Ellen G. White's plagiarized works are collectively known). In fact, Ted Wilson is sponsoring new resolutions to pressure members into stating publicly that they believe Ellen White received her writings directly from God. This is the church's official statement (based on a 2010 resolution) on White's plagiarized writings:

Resolution on the Spirit of Prophecy

We, the delegates to the 2010 General Conference Session in Atlanta, Georgia, acknowledge with gratitude the continuing contribution to the Seventh-day Adventist Church found in the writings and ministry of Ellen G White. We are witnesses to how the Church has been blessed and guided by God through the inspired counsel of His messenger. Her counsels exalt the Bible as the Word of God, lift up Jesus as Creator and Redeemer of the world, and encourage a life of service and sacrifice. Her ministry has directly aided in the preservation of unity in the Church and its expanding global outreach.

The gift of prophecy, like the other spiritual gifts, is to bring about unity, equip God's people for the work of ministry, build up the body of Christ, protect it from being deceived by false doctrine, and foster individual and collective spiritual growth (Ephesians 4:11-15). We recognize in Ellen G White the gift of prophecy, and affirm that as this gift is valued and its instruction heeded, the Church prospers.

Consequently, we express our gratitude to God for His gracious gift in the prophetic ministry of Ellen G White. We call upon Seventh-day Adventists everywhere to prayerfully study her messages and benefit from the inspiration and instruction found there. We encourage the teachers and administrators of our educational institutions and the leaders of our health-care facilities and publishing houses to review her counsels for their areas of service. We urge pastors to make use of these writings in their sermon preparation and in their planning with the members for the mission of their churches. We appeal to Church administrators at every level to exert their influence in affirming the importance of these writings for the Church and to continue efforts to make these writings available to church members at affordable cost. And we affirm our commitment to "believe His prophets" (2 Chronicles 20:20), that we may prosper in fulfilling our mission to the world and thus hasten the coming of Jesus.

_______________

This statement was approved and Resolution was voted by the General Conference Session of the Seventh-day Adventists Church in Atlanta, Georgia, June 24-July 3, 2010.

Sile:

Of course Ellen White remains a revered figure within the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

But you again failed to make a compelling argument that the Seventh Day Adventist Church is a "cult".

In fact, it is a religion and not a cult.

Again, I am not receiving complaints from unhappy ex-members and affected families, such as those that come in regularly about many of the groups listed through this Web site. This site has up and running since 1996 and my work goes back to 1982.

I am sorry you and/or your family had an unhappy experiences at the Adventist Church.

But at this point perhaps it's best to move on.

You are not making much headway here with your arguments.