Quote
rrmoderator
Praising and/or promoting Ramana or any other philosophy or religious writer, thinker is not the purpose of this board.

This is a violation of the rules regarding promoting beliefs and essentially preaching.

I was responding to Shimon's most recent post on this thread.

I understand; thanks for the clarification.

I think Shimon was expressing choosing one teacher who does not have cult-like tendencies over another who does. I got the impression that he was stating it is a relief to choose a teacher he feels does not have these tendencies rather than trying to convert anyone else, or praise and promote Ramana. That is my impression from my dialogue with Shimon. I am sure he wouldn't force-feed Ramana down anyone's throat, but was rather expressing his happiness in choosing a teacher for himself who is not a cult leader over one who is. That's a good thing. He expressed his personal choice and free will after being subjected to heavy mind control, and I think that is wonderful. It is clear it is his personal decision rather than promotion. Ramana is one of the few teachers who people can learn about along with the major religions in some university survey courses, so I am nearly certain he is a safe person for Shimon, rather than for anyone else. I understand where you are coming from, I just think in this particular case Shimon was showing his personal choice rather than promoting Ramana. It would be similar to a person stating that they will return to the safety of their religion of Christianity rather than stay in the cult the ICOC; it expresses free will and a good decision after being subjected to mind control rather than intending to promote or preach to others, in my opinion. Thank you, sir.

Thanks I understand that, but the rules here provide for a preaching free zone.

At times it's meaningful to point that out in order to avoid potential problems.

Hello everyone! David Hawkins is one of my many teachers. One thing I notice is some apparent contradictions in his AK.

However - I can't but notice the presense that he speaks of. Not only this, but I count myself as on the Pathway of the Heart.

The only thing I pay attention to in his work is his parts on love and giving up positions.

This is something that I have wrote a while back while doubting him.

There's not as much intellectual credibility through kinesiology as I would like to give him, but there is something very special that his work has given me - God's Peace. As I practiced his work with a full heart and followed everything he said to do, I was not let down. All the promises he had given me came true. Every description of the ego has come to be true. The energy I feel from his books is too great to describe and this man always makes me positive when I think about his teachings. No matter the doubt... this man's work has revealed things to me that made me have the greatest times of my life. Not only that - those around me have surely been affected by it also.

Dr. Hawkins is always enforcing not to have blind faith and to trust God out of the experiential reality about it. He says truth is self-revealing and I have come to known that personally as the world around me has transformed.


I don't know what to say as I am not intellectual as you all. All I know is that by following his teachings through the heart enourmous transformations have occured in my life.

Just yesterday I opened up his unconditional love section and started crying after being addicted to a computer game online.

I felt home.

Home like a mother watching her daughter getting married - real Love.




I am completely aware of where someone could see harm in following his AK.

Which is why I don't lol.

What I do however is have a great compassion for Dr. Hawkins and NEVER worship him.

I worship God.

The error that I see with people that follow the Doc is how they get so caught up in the intellect. Can you be reborn as an animal?

WHO CARES!

Can you have the best moment of your life sitting still in your room thinking of loving thoughts? I did. And it was something special.

The doc I feel never has once noted he was more special than anyone else. When I think of him I think of a funny old humble man that realizes what I don't.

His work has decreased my egotism incredibly.

I am a trombone player. I used to be the most cockiest player ever! God... look at me everyone! look how loud I am! LOL

The doc has in his pride sections in his books the ways to overcome pride by realizing my musicality is a gift for the benefit of all of mankind.


In his books he recommends brother lawrence's "Practicing the Presence of God"

100 percent devotion from a Christian I believe.

Although he refutes certain teachers I have to mention that the one's he doesn't have something in common - they are loving!

I pray that if Dr. Hawkins is a cult leader for the best of luck to him. But I just don't understand how a man that litteraly freed me from obsessive compulsive disorder and allowed me to litteraly almost cry because of the innocence of a bully can have these errors.

By their fruits ye' shall know them. Isn't that how I know the doc?

If I can clarify anything that would be great.

I just know that by practicing the teachings from Dr. Hawkins I have got to the point to where if a teacher comes over to help me out in school, I will start tearing at times from the care and love.


I do not avoid people because they are below 200 etc. I avoid those who make fun of me and refute that energy level.

Just a while ago a bully was making a joke with me with a girl that might be a prostitute. I ran away from them like a panzy.

If I followed Dr. Hawkins I would have stood there standing up for truth with a grip on unconditional love and said "I would appreciate it if you got off of me. I really don't want to call the cops."

If the doc told me to punch her I would immediately ditch Doctor Hawkins and pray for a real teacher.

Also, I can't help but be aware also that the doc has a tendency to go into details just so his work isn't manipulated as so in other works.

God bless all you for seeking the Truth. I sincerely wish to get to the bottom of this, and if I caused problems sharing my beliefs, am terribly sorry.

With love,
Tbonegeek18
P.S. - please don't dissect my post with scientific information. I would appreciate a heart - to - heart analysis with personal understandings. I have read almost all of this topic on this site also so I understand his Ph. D . dillema and AK controversy

Quote
tbonegeek18
Hello everyone! David Hawkins is one of my many teachers.

Who are your other teachers?

Quote
tbonegeek18
One thing I notice is some apparent contradictions in his AK.

However - I can't but notice the presense that he speaks of. Not only this, but I count myself as on the Pathway of the Heart.

The only thing I pay attention to in his work is his parts on love and giving up positions.

Many teachers stress this.

Quote
tbonegeek18
This is something that I have wrote a while back while doubting him.

There's not as much intellectual credibility through kinesiology as I would like to give him, but there is something very special that his work has given me - God's Peace.

Do any of the other teachers give this to you as well?

Quote
tbonegeek18
As I practiced his work with a full heart and followed everything he said to do, I was not let down. All the promises he had given me came true. Every description of the ego has come to be true. The energy I feel from his books is too great to describe and this man always makes me positive when I think about his teachings. No matter the doubt... this man's work has revealed things to me that made me have the greatest times of my life. Not only that - those around me have surely been affected by it also.

Dr. Hawkins is always enforcing not to have blind faith and to trust God out of the experiential reality about it. He says truth is self-revealing and I have come to known that personally as the world around me has transformed.

His AK requires blind faith. Consider what Brad69 wrote earlier about psychological dissonance.

Quote
tbonegeek18
I don't know what to say as I am not intellectual as you all. All I know is that by following his teachings through the heart enourmous transformations have occured in my life.

Just yesterday I opened up his unconditional love section and started crying after being addicted to a computer game online.

I felt home.

Home like a mother watching her daughter getting married - real Love.

I am completely aware of where someone could see harm in following his AK.

Which is why I don't lol.

What I do however is have a great compassion for Dr. Hawkins and NEVER worship him.

I worship God.

The error that I see with people that follow the Doc is how they get so caught up in the intellect. Can you be reborn as an animal?

WHO CARES!

Can you have the best moment of your life sitting still in your room thinking of loving thoughts? I did. And it was something special.

The doc I feel never has once noted he was more special than anyone else. When I think of him I think of a funny old humble man that realizes what I don't.

He arm-presses himself in the 990s and most of humanity below 200. How do you know he realizes what you don't? Isn't this a form of specialness?

Quote
tbonegeek18
His work has decreased my egotism incredibly.

I am a trombone player. I used to be the most cockiest player ever! God... look at me everyone! look how loud I am! LOL

The doc has in his pride sections in his books the ways to overcome pride by realizing my musicality is a gift for the benefit of all of mankind.

Maybe part of your gift is to express yourself with exaggerated self-confidence. That isn't necessarily pride, but part of musicianship for some artists.

Quote
tbonegeek18
In his books he recommends brother lawrence's "Practicing the Presence of God"

100 percent devotion from a Christian I believe.

Although he refutes certain teachers I have to mention that the one's he doesn't have something in common - they are loving!

I pray that if Dr. Hawkins is a cult leader for the best of luck to him. But I just don't understand how a man that litteraly freed me from obsessive compulsive disorder and allowed me to litteraly almost cry because of the innocence of a bully can have these errors.

Cult experts make the claim.

Quote
tbonegeek18
By their fruits ye' shall know them. Isn't that how I know the doc?

If I can clarify anything that would be great.

I just know that by practicing the teachings from Dr. Hawkins I have got to the point to where if a teacher comes over to help me out in school, I will start tearing at times from the care and love.

I do not avoid people because they are below 200 etc. I avoid those who make fun of me and refute that energy level.

Just a while ago a bully was making a joke with me with a girl that might be a prostitute. I ran away from them like a panzy.

If I followed Dr. Hawkins I would have stood there standing up for truth with a grip on unconditional love and said "I would appreciate it if you got off of me. I really don't want to call the cops."

If the doc told me to punch her I would immediately ditch Doctor Hawkins and pray for a real teacher.

He has made similar statements regarding pacifism.

Quote
tbonegeek18
Also, I can't help but be aware also that the doc has a tendency to go into details just so his work isn't manipulated as so in other works.

God bless all you for seeking the Truth. I sincerely wish to get to the bottom of this, and if I caused problems sharing my beliefs, am terribly sorry.

With love,
Tbonegeek18
P.S. - please don't dissect my post with scientific information. I would appreciate a heart - to - heart analysis with personal understandings. I have read almost all of this topic on this site also so I understand his Ph. D . dillema and AK controversy

If you follow the pathway of the heart, there are many other teachers that teach this that are not raising red flags to cult experts and concerned observers. Do you not get positive results from other teachers, or is it only from Hawkins?

Thanks.

Quote
PhoenixPotter

Quote
tbonegeek18
Hello everyone! David Hawkins is one of my many teachers.

Who are your other teachers?

Quote
tbonegeek18
One thing I notice is some apparent contradictions in his AK.

However - I can't but notice the presense that he speaks of. Not only this, but I count myself as on the Pathway of the Heart.

The only thing I pay attention to in his work is his parts on love and giving up positions.

Many teachers stress this.

Quote
tbonegeek18
This is something that I have wrote a while back while doubting him.

There's not as much intellectual credibility through kinesiology as I would like to give him, but there is something very special that his work has given me - God's Peace.

Do any of the other teachers give this to you as well?

Quote
tbonegeek18
As I practiced his work with a full heart and followed everything he said to do, I was not let down. All the promises he had given me came true. Every description of the ego has come to be true. The energy I feel from his books is too great to describe and this man always makes me positive when I think about his teachings. No matter the doubt... this man's work has revealed things to me that made me have the greatest times of my life. Not only that - those around me have surely been affected by it also.

Dr. Hawkins is always enforcing not to have blind faith and to trust God out of the experiential reality about it. He says truth is self-revealing and I have come to known that personally as the world around me has transformed.

His AK requires blind faith. Consider what Brad69 wrote earlier about psychological dissonance.

Quote
tbonegeek18
I don't know what to say as I am not intellectual as you all. All I know is that by following his teachings through the heart enourmous transformations have occured in my life.

Just yesterday I opened up his unconditional love section and started crying after being addicted to a computer game online.

I felt home.

Home like a mother watching her daughter getting married - real Love.

I am completely aware of where someone could see harm in following his AK.

Which is why I don't lol.

What I do however is have a great compassion for Dr. Hawkins and NEVER worship him.

I worship God.

The error that I see with people that follow the Doc is how they get so caught up in the intellect. Can you be reborn as an animal?

WHO CARES!

Can you have the best moment of your life sitting still in your room thinking of loving thoughts? I did. And it was something special.

The doc I feel never has once noted he was more special than anyone else. When I think of him I think of a funny old humble man that realizes what I don't.

He arm-presses himself in the 990s and most of humanity below 200. How do you know he realizes what you don't? Isn't this a form of specialness?

Quote
tbonegeek18
His work has decreased my egotism incredibly.

I am a trombone player. I used to be the most cockiest player ever! God... look at me everyone! look how loud I am! LOL

The doc has in his pride sections in his books the ways to overcome pride by realizing my musicality is a gift for the benefit of all of mankind.

Maybe part of your gift is to express yourself with exaggerated self-confidence. That isn't necessarily pride, but part of musicianship for some artists.

Quote
tbonegeek18
In his books he recommends brother lawrence's "Practicing the Presence of God"

100 percent devotion from a Christian I believe.

Although he refutes certain teachers I have to mention that the one's he doesn't have something in common - they are loving!

I pray that if Dr. Hawkins is a cult leader for the best of luck to him. But I just don't understand how a man that litteraly freed me from obsessive compulsive disorder and allowed me to litteraly almost cry because of the innocence of a bully can have these errors.

Cult experts make the claim.

Quote
tbonegeek18
By their fruits ye' shall know them. Isn't that how I know the doc?

If I can clarify anything that would be great.

I just know that by practicing the teachings from Dr. Hawkins I have got to the point to where if a teacher comes over to help me out in school, I will start tearing at times from the care and love.

I do not avoid people because they are below 200 etc. I avoid those who make fun of me and refute that energy level.

Just a while ago a bully was making a joke with me with a girl that might be a prostitute. I ran away from them like a panzy.

If I followed Dr. Hawkins I would have stood there standing up for truth with a grip on unconditional love and said "I would appreciate it if you got off of me. I really don't want to call the cops."

If the doc told me to punch her I would immediately ditch Doctor Hawkins and pray for a real teacher.

He has made similar statements regarding pacifism.

Quote
tbonegeek18
Also, I can't help but be aware also that the doc has a tendency to go into details just so his work isn't manipulated as so in other works.

God bless all you for seeking the Truth. I sincerely wish to get to the bottom of this, and if I caused problems sharing my beliefs, am terribly sorry.

With love,
Tbonegeek18
P.S. - please don't dissect my post with scientific information. I would appreciate a heart - to - heart analysis with personal understandings. I have read almost all of this topic on this site also so I understand his Ph. D . dillema and AK controversy

If you follow the pathway of the heart, there are many other teachers that teach this that are not raising red flags to cult experts and concerned observers. Do you not get positive results from other teachers, or is it only from Hawkins?

Thanks.

Hey, thank you for your reply.

My other teachers include

Wayne Dyer
Marianne Williamson
Ram Dass
Mother Teresa

Now all the teachers give this - however, I find the way that the information is presented by Dr. Hawkins to give the exact reason for example why they are innocent. His elaboration seems to make the ego run for cover haha.

His AK I have no idea about either way - it's rather irrelevant to me actually.

While he calibrates himself in the 990's what I pay attention to is my reaction to his calibration. Still now I do not hold him above me. I feel that that's something he has done well for me - I put less people above myself, but as an equal.

My exaggerated self confidence is quite disturbing. It's kind of like this - I get a feeling of "Damn, I'm good".

I react with "Watch it... (referring to being careful with it)"

The thing is - that lower self in me is just so tenacious!

Hmm, as I responded earlier as david hawkins does in fact give me the greatest results I feel through releasing positions I get positive results from them all. I also feel that if Dr. Hawkins ever pulled a fast one, he himself has given me the information to catch the fast move. It's kind of like this - I do not feel that he is allowed to break any rules.

If he so much as slightly hints at an unkind sentence, I will question it. If he makes a joke, I will ask myself if it's just funny in a different context.

I don't know how to say it - I just know that if he is a cult leader, there isn't too much harm he's done so far - as a matter of fact, it was leaving his teachings mentally for a while that has done the most damage through my own character.

"Live your life like a prayer" - Dr. Hawkins


That's the stuff that I follow - the conclusion is that his work does work for me whether or not he's a cult leader. Funny enough but if someone's work reveals God's presence to you, there's not much more to say.

Now the question is whether or not his work is a trojan horse, or a wolf in sheeps clothing.

This is where you would have to trust me. The biggest sign that I am still ok is the fact that I

1. Listen to other teachers such as mother teresa
2. Put an emphasis as love as a way of being
3. Question the doc's work at times and his actions (question, but not come to a negative conclusion most of the time)

The cult experts I have no idea about - I do have an idea about results though. And these results have proven reliable and real.

Thanks for your time and God Bless!

Dr. Carroll added a new essay to his site on July 16, 2007 that may get at some of what you are saying. It is titled "Evaluating Personal Experience"
[www.skepdic.com]

Carroll addresses anecdotal evidence specifically regarding AK and Hawkins, among other subjects, and speaks to the need for controlled experiments over personal testimony.

There is some information on the Rick Ross site regarding the teachers you mentioned that you may want to consider.

Wayne Dyer: [www.google.com]

Marianne Williamson: [www.google.com]

Ram Dass: [www.google.com]

I would point out that you are sort of not really following what Hawkins says, but picking and choosing what you like and discarding the rest. So you are not really a follower of his, per se, but are just taking what works for you. That's fine, but it is not really what Hawkins is teaching and asking of people.

Thanks.

Hawkins' Wikipedia article has been deleted completely [en.wikipedia.org]

There is still a version of it available here [www.answers.com]

If you want to hear some craziness [www.miraclescenter.us]

Keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

Note their disclaimers.

Anyone can potentially put anything on Wikipedia. And a group or leader's devoted followers can swamp an entry.

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rrmoderator
Keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

Note their disclaimers.

Anyone can potentially put anything on Wikipedia. And a group or leader's devoted followers can swamp an entry.

That's true. That's why it has been deleted. His followers kept complaining about any negative comment in the article no matter how well-sourced and legitimate (such as from NEIRR), and wanted only positive information (even if inaccurate, such as his knighthood), and the administrator finally just deleted the article. The administrator wrote:

Quote

you know what, no matter what everyone does or says, I am always getting emails about this being a BLP [Biography of Living Persons] violation or some copyvio. Take your matches elsewhere, I am done with this.
[en.wikipedia.org]

This bio from NEIRR is accurate: [neirr.org]
Thanks.

[b:2400acdd64]The Emperor's New Clothes — David Hawkins' absolute calibration of truth[/b:2400acdd64] Andrew P—09/2007 [i:2400acdd64]David Hawkins is a controversial spiritual teacher who claims that consciousness/truth can be objectively calibrated by the muscle test. This is an in-depth investigation into this claim. [/i:2400acdd64]

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IF YOU VISIT WIKIPEDIA and look up Dr. David Hawkins, the American psychiatrist who has over the last decade been putting out a lot of scientific-sounding New Age / New Consciousness philosophy in a series of books, magazines and lectures, you will be surprised to see that his entry in that online encyclopedia is almost blank. This is in stark contrast to the same entry just a couple of months earlier, an entry which was substantial due to Hawkins' controversial nature. As someone who naively believes in free speech, I could not understand how a Wikipedia entry could just disappear...

[www.energygrid.com]