[b:16927f105e]Cults.co.nz -- New Zealand Cults, Sects, Religions, Christian Organisations, and other groups.[/b:16927f105e]

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[b:16927f105e]Site Changes, June 2007[/b:16927f105e]:

David R Hawkins - mystic author.

[www.cults.co.nz]

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[b:16927f105e]Hawkins, David R[/b:16927f105e]. Danger[/color:16927f105e] David R Hawkins is said to have a following in New Zealand and Australia. He is described by Wikipedia as being [i:16927f105e]an American psychiatrist, mystic, author and spiritual teacher in Sedona, Arizona[/i:16927f105e]. Robert Todd Carroll, PhD points out [i:16927f105e]Hawkins, by the way, is not only an MD but a PhD. The latter was earned from Columbia Pacific University, an unaccredited diploma mill that was shut down by court order[/i:16927f105e]. To get an idea of what Mr Hawkins is on about, consider a quote promoting one of his books:

"The scientific minded reader will be pleased in that for the first time a cogent and verifiable means of verification of spiritual reality is provided by means of an 'objective' reduplicable method of measurement based on physiologically derived clinical evidence."

Which is really nothing but babble (remember GWP healing instruments? [ [www.cults.co.nz] ]), but some people just lap it up. The [i:16927f105e]'objective' reduplicable [sic] method[/i:16927f105e] mentioned may relate to the God consciousness rating system referred to by this researcher:

"Hawkins uses applied kinesiology [ [www.cults.co.nz] ], a New Age pseudoscience, to calibrate everyone and everything's level of consciousness in the universe. Jesus is at 1000 in his system, and Hawkins himself calibrates one of his books at 999.8. He believes he is God."

He also rates Buddha and Krishna at 1000, indicating they, along with Jesus, have total God consciousness. Anyone who thinks applied kinesiology doesn't work, or in double blind trials is only as good as random chance automatically rates below 200. To stay above 200 contact with unclean "under-200-ers" (my term), which supposedly make up about 80% of the population, must be avoided. Anyone who questions the scale also automatically rates below 200 (and probably only about 140) and is therefore not worth listening to - "[i:16927f105e]I don't like to talk to dumb people[/i:16927f105e]" - whereas someone above 700 has reached enlightenment. How George W Bush rated a 460 only Mr Hawkins knows. In fits of self-contradiction [i:16927f105e]"Hawkins repeatedly makes statements such as, 'All opinions are vanities,' and, 'The mind has no capacity to tell truth from falsehood.'" [/i:16927f105e]See self refuting statements for other examples of statements that contradict themselves.

[www.cults.co.nz]

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[b:16927f105e]Self refuting statements[/b:16927f105e]

[b:16927f105e]Statement:[/b:16927f105e] "The mind has no capacity to tell truth from falsehood" - David R Hawkins.

[b:16927f105e]Response(s)[/b:16927f105e]: Did your mind have the capacity to tell that that statement is true? Does my mind have the capacity to tell that that statement is true?

[b:16927f105e]Statement[/b:16927f105e]: "All opinions are vanities" - David R Hawkins.

[b:16927f105e]Response(s)[/b:16927f105e]: Was that opinion just a vanity? Was that just your opinion?

[www.cults.co.nz]

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[b:16927f105e]New Zealand Cult List Ratings Explained[/b:16927f105e]
Danger[/color:16927f105e]: The group/person or belief/practice is considered dangerous due to mind control or particularly bad doctrine. These groups (or people) have a strong tendency to damage their members/followers.

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[u:a6c2277cfc]Sri Ramana's response to criticism[/u:a6c2277cfc]

A true sage lives their life as they teach it. If their words are full of love and compassion, nonduality, and lack of egotism, then their attitude in life should be too. This is how one tells the True Teacher from the False Guru.

Nowhere is this more clear than in the response of Sri Ramana Maharshi to criticism, slander, and lies said about him. This is revealed in the following anecdotes:

[i:a6c2277cfc]Patience, more patience[/i:a6c2277cfc]

Mr T.K.S. Iyer, a disciple, was excited because someone in the town had spoken disparagingly of the Master. He did not retort and came away excited. So he asked Master what penalty should be paid for his failure to defend him.

Maharshi: Patience, more patience; tolerance, more tolerance!

[i:a6c2277cfc]Only this is untrue?[/i:a6c2277cfc]

There was a man from the state of Kerala who had written a biography of Sri Ramana Maharshi in Malayalam (that state’s regional language). Before sending the manuscript to press he decided to visit the Ashram and have it read aloud before Bhagavan.

Because Kunju Swami was born in Kerala and spoke fluent Malayalam, Bhagavan asked him to read the manuscript aloud, and also to look after the author’s needs during his visit. As Kunju Swami began reading, he could not believe what was written. The book stated that Maharshi was married and was the father of several children, and that one day, while living in the South Indian town of Madurai, he closed his eyes and was somehow magically transported to the Arunachala Hill. The book went on like this, containing many fictional accounts.

After the reading took place, the author had to leave quickly in order to catch a train back home. Maharshi was very gracious to him and asked Kunju Swami to be sure he had something to eat before leaving, and see to it that he reached the train station on time.

After seeing off the visitor, Kunju Swami hurried back to the Ashram, anxious to hear what Bhagavan thought of this highly exaggerated manuscript, which was about to go to press. Back at the Old Hall, he found Ramana Maharshi quietly attending to some small chore, completely unconcerned about anything else. Kunju Swami waited as patiently as he could, wondering if Maharshi might raise the subject. But he just quietly chatted with those present and sat silently.

Finally, Kunju Swami could not contain himself any longer and asked: “Bhagavan, how could you allow this book to get printed? It is full of inaccuracies. In fact, most of it is untrue.” Bhagavan looked at Kunju Swami for a moment then replied: “Oh, I see. You mean only this is untrue, and everything else is true?”

The book was never printed!
[www.kheper.net]

Hawkins, by comparison, encourages impatience and intolerance of criticism of himself, and censors [i:a6c2277cfc]factual[/i:a6c2277cfc] (not inaccurate) information as at Wikipedia.

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shimon
Even for the greatest teachers of all time, like Jesus or Buddha you will find those who disagree with their teachings.

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[i:28373d279b]Monks, if anyone should speak in disparagement of me, of the Dharma or of the Sangha, you should not be angry, resentful or upset on that account. If you were to be angry or displeased at such disparagement, that would only be a hindrance to you. For if others disparage me, the Dharma or the Sangha, then you must explain what is incorrect as being incorrect, saying: "That is incorrect, that is false, that is not our way, that is not found among us."[/i:28373d279b] ~ The Buddha

The response from Hawkins and followers is not to politely correct inaccuracies (apparently there are none to correct), but to calibrate observers at 160. An observer notes that applied kinesiology has been disproved, and Hawkins responds by judging ("calibrating") them to be below 200, which is [i:28373d279b]ad hominem[/i:28373d279b] and begs the question (i.e., it is circular reasoning -- AK is "true" [i:28373d279b]per AK tests[/i:28373d279b]). Except now Hawkins is removing "kinesiology" from his books, so I guess criticism of "muscle testing" will get a negative calibration from said muscle testing...

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Skepticism is a form of a (rather grandiose) negative approach and calibrates at 160...It is also associated with thinly disguised animosity towards God, religion, and spirituality...Alas, skeptics are unable to perform consciousness calibrations because it requires that both of the participants as well as the intention of the question calibrate over 200. (None have done so thus far.)...[i:28373d279b]All[/i:28373d279b] of the purportedly negative reports received on kinesiology calibrate below 200.
[davidhawkins.info]

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David Hawkins conclusively proves the ability of kinesiological testing to distinguish truth or falsehood in any statement
[www.veritaspub.com]

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To get correct answers, both people doing it have to calibrate over 200, which is the level of integrity. They have to have integrity to begin with - which excludes 85% of the population!
[www.kindredspirit.co.uk]

This is a cult, not a science, spirituality, or a religion.

I only have a minute. but wanted to say that i talked to a few buddhists recently and they confirmed to me that the dalai lama is indeed enlightened, is a living Buddha. Hawkins calibrates him at 570 only, which is very high, but not yet enlightened. THey made it clear to me that he has exhausted all of his karma and is enlightened. so for hawkins to say he is not enlightened proves his calibrations are off and should nt be taken seriously, right? Something to ponder on.

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shimon
I only have a minute. but wanted to say that i talked to a few buddhists recently and they confirmed to me that the dalai lama is indeed enlightened, is a living Buddha. Hawkins calibrates him at 570 only, which is very high, but not yet enlightened. THey made it clear to me that he has exhausted all of his karma and is enlightened. so for hawkins to say he is not enlightened proves his calibrations are off and should nt be taken seriously, right? Something to ponder on.

You bring up a good point that I would like to take a little time to address.

It is difficult to be certain whether a person such as the Dalai Lama is enlightened or not. It is a matter of faith. In other words, it is difficult to establish as a [i:a83f3f6c6a]fact[/i:a83f3f6c6a].

There are a few ways to find conflicts in Hawkins’ calibration system. Contradictions of his system are of three types: Internal; between testers; and against the facts.

Internal

One way to falsify the system is to note all of the internal contradictions – there are many. One could create a whole database for the calibrations that Hawkins contradicts himself. Some examples that come to mind are Meister Eckhart at both 600 and 700, Zoroaster is either 850 or 1000, [i:a83f3f6c6a]Eye of the I[/i:a83f3f6c6a] is either 950 or 980, Huang Po is in the 700s or 900s, etc. There are many that people can report on.

Between Testers

Another way is to note that no one ever replicates Hawkins’ results greater than chance would account for (as the studies indicated is the case). Any person being honest about this will admit that no one ever agrees on calibrations when performing the tests. This also contradicts the workability of the test that Hawkins wrote about.

Against the Facts

The final way to falsify the system is to note basic facts that are incorrect, though were purportedly tested for truth prior to publication. There are, again, many examples. I’ve referenced some already. One I’ve not yet noted is Hawkins wrote that Ramana Maharshi died in about 1958; in fact, it was 1950. One could consider that this is a minor detail, but in the context of Hawkins stating that every word he writes is the absolute truth, these details compound to become a mountain; it is no triviality, but rather indicates that the system is entirely flawed, that there is no truth in it whatsoever.

His PhD is from an unaccredited diploma mill ( [en.wikipedia.org] ); all double-blind studies at the NLM and NIH show that AK does not work ( www.pubmed.com ); the major proponents of AK are critical of Hawkins’ work and state that it is not true; and many of Hawkins’ claims have not held up to scrutiny.

It’s been noted before that any time Hawkins strays from his own field he often enters into error (e.g., philosophy, physics, mathematics, applied kinesiology, scorpions, etc.) People who are knowledgeable in a particular area will point out Hawkins’ errors in that specialty and these also pile up to become a mountain.

All one can do is compare Hawkins’ results to the facts. This does not mean that you disagree with a particular result, but rather shows the error of the entire system. I will give two examples of Hawkins’ pseudoscience contradicting established scientific fact that carry major consequences: tobacco smoking and global warming.

Hawkins believes organic tobacco calibrates above 200 and so is good for you. Here is what The Lung Association writes:

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[u:a83f3f6c6a]Is there a safe tobacco[/u:a83f3f6c6a]
No. There is no safe tobacco.
Tobacco is the only product in the world that kills half of the people who use it exactly as directed…
[u:a83f3f6c6a]"Natural" or organic tobacco[/u:a83f3f6c6a]
Some people grow their own tobacco and think it's safer because it's "natural." Smoking homegrown tobacco doesn't make it any safer. You're still breathing in hot, dirty, toxic smoke into your lungs.
[www.lung.ca]

Hawkins also believes that anthropogenic global warming is not true. The scientific consensus on global warming is overwhelming; the basic conclusions of the the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change "have been endorsed by at least 30 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries ( [en.wikipedia.org] ). See [en.wikipedia.org] , Al Gore's [i:a83f3f6c6a]An Inconvenient Truth[/i:a83f3f6c6a], and Tim Flannery's [i:a83f3f6c6a]The Weather Makers[/i:a83f3f6c6a] as just a few examples.

Even “bellwether of integrity” Bill O’Reilly stated:

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“[i:a83f3f6c6a]Global warming is here. All these idiots are running around and saying it isn’t here; that’s ridiculous[/i:a83f3f6c6a].” – Bill O’Reilly
[www.youtube.com]

Hawkins also contradicts spiritual principles. Just one example is pacifism. I recall Hawkins wrote that people who believe in pacifism will have "negative karma," so I suppose this includes pacifists such as Albert Einstein, Leo Tolstoy, Albert Schweitzer, Alfred Nobel, the Dalai Lama, Martin Luther King, Jr., Mohandas Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Mahavira, the Buddha, and Jesus Christ.

Another of Hawkins calibrations that is goofy is that of Ramesh Balsekar at 760. 600 + is enlightenment and ramesh is way over 600 and rameshes guru was Nisargadatta Maharaj which calibrated at 720, the same as Ramana Maharshi. Both Ramana and Nisargadatta were considered two of the greatest teachers of all time. ANd hawkins calibrates ramesh as higher than these two, and from what i read, he, hawkins that is, has since removed rameshes calibrations from his books, he is no longer listed as an integrous teacher. it seems good old ramesh was sleeping with or having some sexual relations with some of his female disciples, and he is a married man i believe. ANyways, he has fallen and no longer at 760, he probably fell below 200 and integrity.

Back to the Dalai Lama. After my discussions with the buddhists, it was clear to me that all sects and lineages of Mahayana and Vajrayana BUddhism all accept the Dalai Lama as their leader and as an enlightened being. Yes, there is no way to prove it, that he is, but they all accept it and believe it. Their system is based on the belief that he reincarnates, comes back over and over by free will, that he is free of all karma and is a living Buddha. Buddhists seem to be some of the purest, most evolved spiritual people on the planet, and yet hawkins calibrates him still below 600 and enlightenment, and he calibrates another cult leader by the name of Swami Muktananda as over 600. I just dont get his calibrations.

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shimon
Another of Hawkins calibrations that is goofy is that of Ramesh Balsekar at 760. 600 + is enlightenment and ramesh is way over 600 and rameshes guru was Nisargadatta Maharaj which calibrated at 720, the same as Ramana Maharshi. Both Ramana and Nisargadatta were considered two of the greatest teachers of all time. ANd hawkins calibrates ramesh as higher than these two, and from what i read, he, hawkins that is, has since removed rameshes calibrations from his books, he is no longer listed as an integrous teacher. it seems good old ramesh was sleeping with or having some sexual relations with some of his female disciples, and he is a married man i believe. ANyways, he has fallen and no longer at 760, he probably fell below 200 and integrity.

Balsekar had a mistress for a number of years, including the time period that Hawkins calibrated him so high, from what I understand. Here is the information [www.inner-quest.org]

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...Ramesh had had a mistress for a number of years (as well as other women before that)...the events with women taking place in Kovalam also took place in Ramesh's Bombay home. I could not believe my ears. I wonder if Mrs. Balsekar and her children know about all this, and if so, how they feel?

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shimon
Back to the Dalai Lama. After my discussions with the buddhists, it was clear to me that all sects and lineages of Mahayana and Vajrayana BUddhism all accept the Dalai Lama as their leader and as an enlightened being. Yes, there is no way to prove it, that he is, but they all accept it and believe it. Their system is based on the belief that he reincarnates, comes back over and over by free will, that he is free of all karma and is a living Buddha. Buddhists seem to be some of the purest, most evolved spiritual people on the planet, and yet hawkins calibrates him still below 600 and enlightenment, and he calibrates another cult leader by the name of Swami Muktananda as over 600. I just dont get his calibrations.

There is no need to try to get his calibrations; they are not true. The system does not induce peace of mind as purported but leads to a lot pointless questions and arguments. The whole system is a sham.

Here is some info on Muktananda [www.google.com]

These are just more examples that show Hawkins' system does not work, and that people could simply access information on the internet such as at the Rick Ross site rather than press on a person's arm or listen to Hawkins' wife's arm for the absolute truth.

It is not your fault that you don't get the calibrations; they make no sense. It shows that you are healthy and not deluded. Your mind will not be corrupted, that is very good! Enlightenment will not be found through his calibrations; they are the antithesis of realization.

I found some other sources that mention Hawkins through Ross' site.

[www.google.com]

"Tapping into inner happiness: The message of many gurus is oddly similar: Joy and peace follow enlightenment"

[i:370e0fb9a8]Edmonton Sun[/i:370e0fb9a8], Canada/April 17, 2006
By Jeremy Loome

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Dr. David Hawkins has his own publishing company, pushing the combination of spirituality and applied kinesiology...But for every movement willing to back up its claims, there are plenty who will not. De Ruiter, Chopra and Hawkins - along with several followers of each - all refused to comment on their critics, their practices and their sales.

[www.culteducation.com]

This is a funny thread :lol:

[board.culteducation.com]

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Taoism Crap happens.
Confucianism Confucious say, "Crap Happens".
Calvinism This crap is pre-ordained.
Buddhism If crap happens, it really isn't crap.
Jehovah's Witness Crap happens because you don't work hard enough.
Seventh Day Adventist No crap on Saturdays.
Zen What is the sound of crap happening?
Hedonism There's nothing like a good crap happening.
Hinduism This crap happened before.
Mormonism This crap will help me grow.
Islam If crap happens, it is the will of Allah.
Moonies Only happy crap really happens.
Stoicism This crap is good for me.
Protestantism We don't take no crap from the Pope.
Catholicism Crap happens because you are BAD.
Hare Krishna Crap happens Rama Rama.
Judaism Why does this crap always happen to US?
Zoroastrianism Crap happens half the time.
Christian Science Crap is all in your mind.
Quaker We will continue calmly in spite of this crap.
Environmentalism Recycle this crap.
Existentialism What is crap anyway?
Baha'i Crap happens, but let's not fight about it.
Unitarianism We're all partly responsible for everyone's crap.
Unity We're all in this crap together/You can crap loaves/fishes and $100 bills if you Believe you can.
Native American Crapping is part of living. Get used to it.
Scientology We'll get rid of your crap for just $7,899.
Est If you haven't "got it," you haven't got crap/No crapping allowed.
Rastafarianism Let's smoke this crap.
Remnant Fellowship/Weigh Down Workshop Don't eat one bite of crap past full or you'll go to hell
The Secret If crap happens to you, you attracted it.
Landmark Education We can sort out your crap for $700 and your entire weekend
[b:370e0fb9a8]David R. Hawkins[/b:370e0fb9a8]: Using Applied Kinesiology, this crap must calibrate at over 990 in order for it to be able to calibrate other crap.

Dr David Hawkins | Power vs. Force www.level-of-consciousness.org

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[b:0fa92701bd]Help Find Missing Girl[/b:0fa92701bd]

[u:0fa92701bd]Orbital[/u:0fa92701bd]: Hi, You may have heard in the news about the young girl, Madeleine McCann, who has gone missing while on holiday in Portugal. It's been all over the news in the UK, at least. I just recently had the idea of trying to find whether she is still alive / where she is using kinesiology. Would it be possible? Can someone try it?

Recent news article about the disappearance: [news.bbc.co.uk]

[u:0fa92701bd]sagetwooh[/u:0fa92701bd]: I'm surprised this hasn't come up here on this forum before as it is one of the questions Dr. Hawkins is asked about quite often from what I understand.

According to DH he is generally denied permission to ask these questions. The event of the child gone missing is a crucial part of the karma they are here to work off/through.

[www.level-of-consciousness.org]

Most use of AK is in regard to subjects that are unfalsifiable (e.g., so and so "calibrates at 350," rather than "the missing person is at place X"). When AK deals with facts, of course, it does not work. AK should be able to answer where a missing girl is according to Hawkins' books, which state that practically any question can be answered.

Hawkins most likely doesn't want to repeat what happened when psychic and fellow Hay House author Sylvia Browne told distraught parents that their son, Shawn Hornbeck, was dead.

Of course, Hornbeck was not dead, and four years later was found. [www.youtube.com]

James Randi, who has publicly challenged Browne as well as Hawkins to win his $1 million prize (neither have taken Randi up on the offer [www.randi.org] ), appeared along with Browne's business manager on CNN with Anderson Cooper [www.youtube.com] .

Browne’s business manager’s response to Randi? It is the same as Hawkins to his critics. Browne is a “vessel of God” and Randi is an “atheist.” To which Anderson Cooper pointed out that this was “like a high school debating tactic, to attack the guy who’s asking the questions as opposed to answering the actual questions.” So long as frauds hide in “spiritual” clothing they have no right to be held accountable apparently.

To add insult to injury, you may remember "integrous" Bill O'Reilly stated that Hornbeck had "fun" and he "liked" being kidnapped ( [www.youtube.com] ). (Which prompted Keith Olbermann to ask why O'Reilly still had a job after blaming the victim [www.youtube.com] .)

In any case, Hawkins places a person's "negative karma" from past lives above compassion. AK is absolutely true, according to Hawkins, but since the missing girl supposedly has negative karma from her previous lives, AK is not allowed to find her. Compassion for Hawkins is not relieving suffering, but believing that people must suffer due to karma.

I am slowly starting to read all of the previous posts by you Phoenix Potter. I find what you have to share very thought provoking. I stumbled on one at the begginning where you say Hawkins has a narcisstic personality disorder. That is very interesting and thought provoking. For someone who supposedly has no ego, it sounds very egotistic to me. Maybe there still is some self there, some David left, despite what his followers have to say.

I like how at the begginning there was more activiity and more people sharing and posting. I wonder why no one is posting abotu Hawkins anymore. You have any clue? I mean thousdands read this and no one is talking about hawkins. There must be some disenchanted ex-hawkins followers out there. Or is there? Maybe everyone who follows hawkins never leaves him. They love him and love his system of authority. What do you think? Have you met any ex-hawkins followers, and why did they leave, if you know any?