Wow. That is great. Paolo Roberto is bad news but he is like a worshipped cult leader to many of his followers. I wonder how you could do that when those churches affiliated with PR are not even legal to start with?
YES YOU ARE RIGHT (HERE IS WHAT HAPPEN )...CHURCH LIKE THE ONE IN VANCOUVER CANADA ...ONLY DEAL WITH PAOLO ROBERTO .AND HIS WIFE NONATA ..THEY DO NOT WORK WITH ANY OTHER PADRIHOS
HE MAKE $10,000 DOLLARS EACH WEEK END HE GOES THERE ...AND THEN SELL THE $5,OOO
COURSE THAT HIS FOLLOWERS WILL GLADLY PAY ...EVEN IF THEY ARE MOSTLY BROKE
THEY TRAVEL TO BRASIL AND LET THE SPOOKS POSESS THEM ...AND AFTER 5 DAYS THEY THINK THEY HAD GREAT SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES GIVING SPIRITS THE OPPORTUNITIES TO USE THEIR BODIES TO GO TO THE LIGHT ...ITS A WIERD BRASILIAN SCAM ...HE IS A CULT LEADER AS GENUINE AS THEY COME ...IN MY OPINION ...HE IS ALSO A PSYCHOLOGIST ...THATS EVEN MORE SCARY ...I WAS REALLY TAKEN BY HIM BUT FORTUNATLY I AM NOT SCARE TO SPEAK OUT .
WHEN I DID A VIDEO TO EXPOSE HIM ....A LAWYER CONTACTED ME ....AND BECAME AN INTERMIDIARY BETWEN ME AND PAULO ROBERTO ...AND I TOLD THE LAWYER MY DEMANDS
TO HAVE THAT VIDEO COME DOWN .(i had all kind of phone calls and emails by his fanatic followers begging me to take down the video )..THIS VIDEO COULD HAVE COST PAULO LOTS OF MONEY HE COULD HAVE BEEN BAR FROM ENTRY TO CANADA ...
HE MAKES LOTS OF $$$ IN VANCOUVER AND HIS WIFE IN TORONTO...AND THEY HAVE A FEW CITIES IN THE USA ..THAT WORSHIP THEM .. AS ITS ALL ILLEGAL MONEY ...THOSE DOLLLARS FIND ITs WAY TO BRASIL PAOLO ROBERTO BANK ACCOUNTS
MY FRIENDS THAT GOT THEIR STARS FROM HIM 15 YEARS AGO NOW SAY ...HE AS LOST HIS WAY ...ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY SEX AND POWERS ..ANYWAY
TO MY SURPRISE THE LAWYER FINALLY SENT ME A EMAIL SIGN BY PAOLO ROBERTO
THAT HE WOULD NOT DO THIS "ILLUMINATION WORK " WITH NEW PEOPLE
I HAD BROUGHT 9 NEW PEOPLE TO ONE OF THOSE WORK ...AS I TOUGHT IT WOULD BE A REGULAR MEETING ....WHEN MY FRIENDS SAW THE PEOPLE START SCREAMING AND ROLLING ON THE FLOOR ....THEY GOT REALLY SCARE AND THEY NEVER WENT BACK TO MEETINGS
OF PAOLO ROBERTO ....ITS UNFORTUNATE BUT TRUTH AS YOU SAID HIS FOLLOWERS WORSHIP THE GUY
A CULT LEADER ...AND PLACES LIKE VANCOUVER CANADA WILL DEAL ONLY WITH HIM ..
.
PLUS HE IS ANOTHER ONE THAT SMOKE DOPE DAYLY ...AND BECAUSE HE DOES ...IS FOLLOWERS DO TO ...THEY DO MEETINGS JUST WITH POT WHEN DAIME IS LOW .

Do you know the history of how Umbanda became incorporated into Santo Daime? NO I DO NOT KNOW AND I WOULD LIKE VERY MUCH TO KNOW It is a rather sordid story. IF ITS SORDID I RELLY WANT TO KNOW (HUMOR) Ge Marques did a study of that history and wrote a long paper about it. I will look for the link and send it to you in PM when I find it.

Quote
dabcult
....Santo Daime is not one religion
it as become in many ways ....many cults within a religion .

I would completely agree with that. SD doesn't fit the classic profile of a cult but there are churches within it that are cultlike....PAOLO ROBERTO IS AN EXEMPLE ...THERE ARE OTHERS ...PADRINOS WITH 3 OR 4 WIFES ...TOTALLY DYSFONCTIONAL FAMILY LIFE ...AND THEY SIT GUIDING PEOPLE IN CEREMONIES ...ITS WEIRD ...SWEET JESUS ....BUT THERE IS ALSO VERY NICE CHURCHES WITH VERY NICE PEOPLE WITH NO EGO TRIP ...I BELONG TO ONE OF THOSE

Quote
dabcult
.Now he is inviting who knows who Peruvian Shamans to lead ceremonies in Peru ...and talking of inviting them to the USA ...are some of them practicing UMBANDA? Fortunately not. That is distinctively Brazilian. It is virtually unknown in Peru....THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EVIL SPIRITS MIGHT SHOW UP IN THOSE PERUVIAN SHAMANIC TRADITIONS ..DEAR GAYLE
WE CAN NOT SAY OK GUYS GO WITH TRINITY ...THERE WILL BE NO UBANDA .
HE WILL BRING ONLY GOOD LITTLE PERUVIAN SHAMAN THERE IS NO DANGER
THERE IS LOTS AND LOTS OF DANGERS ..IN THIS TRINITY PROPAGANDA
AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE ...I DO NOT TRUST ANT SHAMAN ...NONE

Quote
liminal

Gayle, other than ONAC and its various branches, do you know of anyone else running commercial public ayahuasca operations in USA, similar to Trinity? Similar in New Age hustler marketer style?

Not similar to Trinity in that way. There are a lot of small groups happening under the radar. That includes circles with stable fellowships, people who bring Amazonian curanderos to lead ceremonies, professional therapists doing work underground with drug addicts and PTSD sufferers, and, increasingly, retreats that take paying guests for a short period. But they all have kept a low profile due to the legality issue, and the DEA has seemed to be willing to look the other way as long as these groups stayed quiet and more or less invisible. They are across the board upset with what Trinity is doing, because he is potentially threatening to bring down a legal crackdown on all of them.

I like the status quo, that allows these small groups to operate as long as they are quiet about it. That keeps any of them from expanding or proselytizing. The trouble is, they vary in competence. Some are good at what they do and some are not.

By the way, I forgot to mention that I agree with you, dabcult, bipolar disorder is one problem that can be made worse by ayahuasca.

Gayle, is clinical depression a condition that can be made worse with ayahuasca?

Years ago, a fragile friend of mine who had depression and was on 2 antidepressants and one antianxiety medication considered doing an ayahuasca retreat in Peru -- and even asked me if I would accompany her.

I persuaded her not to do it. (If she had insisted on going, I would have refused to get involved - I cannot speak Spanish and I knew I would have been incapable of
handling any emergency that could arise in this context.)

People taking medications that are MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitors) have to abstain from those meds and from MAOI foodstuffs and over the counter medications for two weeks - or more?

People who need their medications could destabilize and that would be bad enough
-especially when far from home and with unreliable people.

Many people use medications that have MAOI properties. (Not all of these are psychiatric medications, btw) If one conscientiously excludes customers who have
health and pharmacy issues that make ayahuasca unsafe for them, this would reduce the number of potential customers.

Ethical ayahuasca mentors would put client welfare ahead of financial success.

But--what about the ones who are greedy for money and or are children in adult bodies who are greedy for new humans to control and turn into toys and cash sources?

Yet another concern:

Some conditions, such as schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder and bipolar affective disorder have stigmatizing connotations.

Persons with these conditions may be afraid to disclose this for fear of disgrace or of being excluded.

And, some persons have a genetic predisposition for bipolar but are not old enough or stressed enough to have had an episode. (Many suffer bipolar for years
before they finally receive a diagnosis).

I have read of some persons who did not experience their first bipolar episode until they went through a major disruption in their sleep week cycle, such as
a first trip to a foreign country several times zones away from home.

Screening people for ayahuasca use would require establishing a trusting relationship in which they would be able to trust enough to disclose this information. And the interviewer would need to be alert enough to question
the applicant about any family history of bipolar disorder, major depression
or addiction issues.

Very many serious addictions arise when the sufferer attempts to self medicate
an underlying condition.

One would also if ethical, screen applicants for medical conditions that would
preclude ayahuasca use.

For example, type 2 diabetes and prediabetes are becoming common. Both
predispose people to aggressive early onset cardiovascular disease and high blood pressure. Diabetics can incur painless heart attacks.

A person may have fragile blood vessels and risk rupturing them and having a bleed
or a dangerous disruption in heart rhythm while vomiting.

These days even young persons are developing prediabetes and diabetes and too many do not know they have these conditions.

I would expect an ethical and well informed ayahuasca mentor would require each applicant to undergo a physical examination that would include screens for diabetes and prediabetes and for hypertension.

Corboy is not crying wolf. Here are some articles.


Cash rich technology workers may consider an ayahuasca retreat. But if this
article is accurate, many of them should be screened for underlying conditions
that would make ayahuasca use dangerous for them. The work place culture leaves people afraid to use health care resources companies provide for them.

Is Silicon Valley Bad for Your Health - Fortune Magazine.

Diabetes and prediabetes

One in Eleven People Affected by Diabetes

[www.bbc.co.uk]

[www.google.com]

[www.bbc.com]

[www.bbc.com]

Gayle said

I like the status quo, that allows these small groups to operate as long as they are quiet about it. That keeps any of them from expanding or proselytizing. The trouble is, they vary in competence. Some are good at what they do and some are not.

I was talking with some Santo Daime church leaders ....and they all say the same
Trinity can cause lots and lots of problems to sincere santo daime like churches that are trying to become legal ...The approval of the Santo Daime church in Oregon was a very long process....and many other churches in the USA and Canada have apply in their own states to become legal entities (some have invested $100,000 or more )...they do not make videos about it or proletezise about it
actually last year I made another video pointing out the big problem that Santo Daime is now having worldwide with marijuana being use by many Padrinos
It was up for a week and leaders of all kinds of santo daime churches
ask me to please take it down ....as it might cause delay ..or even refusal from the various governemental agengies ...as this is done STATE BY STAE IN THE USA ....Canada will have to be a national approval .
and with idiots like Paulo Roberto encouraging his followers to smoke dope
its gonna be a big challenge.
TRINITY ....does not give a dam about all the other churches or therapists
trying to be legal ....he just goes on and on making publicity videos
"TRINITY GUZMAN HERE >>>WITH AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING ...BULLSHIT .JOIN MY CHURCH EVEN AS IT IS NOT EVEN FONCTIONING AND YOU WILL THEN BE LEGALLY
ABLE TO DRINK AYAHUASCA..........He is feeding LIES AND DECEITS ...and some people are gonna get hurt

Dear Corboy
Very wise what you had to say in your last post

TRINITYs gang is absolutely not ready to diagnose if any participants as medical problems....and in my experience many many will lie about their condition and mental and medical history ....they will lie about what kind of medication they are taking ...I HAVE SEEN IT ...just because they want to get that AYAHUASKA experience...it is astounding how many people do not mind playing russian roulette with their brain .
I have seen myself people vomiting so much and so hard in some ceremonies it was svary to see them turn red faces ext
and as you said the "
"A person may have fragile blood vessels and risk rupturing them and having a bleed or a dangerous disruption in heart rhythm while vomiting."
I have seen people freaking exausted from vomiting ..and where then lying down for the rest of the ceremony(but well attended by experts in Santo Daime )
After taking the ayahuaska for 50 times or more
I think that a regimen of dayly meditation...is ultimatly more beneficial than those mind explorations with the Ayahuaska.

[realitysandwich.com]

Shamans and Charlatans: Assessing Castaneda's Legacy

(small excerpt)

Quote

s The Teachings of Don Juan introduced thousands of psychedelically-inclined readers to its mysterious sage, the deserts of Mexico were subsequently inundated with droves of ?Don Juan seekers? determined to find, and be enlightened by, the elusive sorcerer. Anthropologist Jane Holden Kelley reports the harassment of Pascuan Yaquis during the 1970s by ?long-haired hippies? in search of Castaneda?s muse. Seizing an opporunity, the crafty villagers played along, divesting the deluded youths of money, booze, and cigarettes before they realized they had been duped.[11]

It was not the Yaquis, however, but the Huichols who bore the brunt of the hippie influx throughout the seventies. As Fikes explains, the Yaquis ?offer relatively little to guru-seekers? since they do not use psychedelics and are somewhat ?more acculturated? than the peyote-ingesting Huichols. He relates accounts of traditional Huichols ?harassed, jailed, shot at, and almost murdered by guru-seekers? and offers an anecdote depicting the attempted stabbing of his Huichol ?father? by a gringo peyote hunter. These incidents grew more infrequent with time, but the lasting impact of The Teachings on Native Americans, asserts Fikes, lies in the marketing of the Don Juan archetype.

New Age ?shamans? modeled on Castaneda?s sorcerer exist in abundance in today?s society. Offering travel packages to psychedelic meccas, these pseudo-shamans profit from the misappropriation of rituals and liturgical objects sacred to Native American religions. While some operations offer legitimate and conscientious experiences of traditional shamanism, others are little more than opportunistic scams. As Fikes contends, such shameless exploitation trivializes ?Huichol, Yaqui, or any Native American culture by masking or ignoring its true genius.? Furthermore, these profiteers increase the Western fascination with psychedelic drugs such as peyote, bringing unwanted government attention to authentic Native American practices.

A New York Times article from July 23, 1970 describes the plight of Oaxacan Indians suffering from the flood of American ?mushroom addicts? and the subsequent crackdown by Mexican authorities; once considered a ?great medicine,? the fungi are now contraband in Oaxaca.[12] In the United States, similar legislative measures currently threaten Native Americans' religious freedom. The Smith vs. Oregon decision of the Supreme Court, for instance, banned the ritual use of peyote among members of the Native American Church from 1990 until its repeal in 1993. Within a ?War on Drugs? political climate, the mystique engendered by Don Juan and his imitators represents a real and direct threat to the ?special rights? Native American cultures have been granted in American society.

Most troublingly, the fallout from nearly four decades of Castaneda-inspired drug tourism in Mexico now threatens to wipe out some indigenous shamanic cultures entirely. According to a recent National Public Radio report, the rampant, unsustainable harvesting of peyote by foreigners and drug traffickers from the desert surrounding Real de Catorce has placed the slow-growing cactus in danger of vanishing from the region. The area is held sacred by the Huichol who regularly pass through the north Mexican desert on shamanic pilgrimages. Once thriving in abundance along their route, the peyote cactus has become increasingly scarce, prompting the Indians to lobby the government for protection of the holy site. If the peyote disappears, so does the unique knowledge system of one of Mexico's most vital remaining tribal cultures.[13]

'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2016 12:31AM by corboy.

Quote
corboy
Gayle, is clinical depression a condition that can be made worse with ayahuasca?

Hi corboy, clinical depression is one of the conditions that can respond most positively to ayahuasca. For both physiological and psychological reasons. In some cases (based on considerable anecdotal evidence that we have gathered on the Ayahuasca Forums) people have cured their clinical depression permanently with ayahuasca.

But it isn't so simple, because as you know, ayahuasca (and MAOIs in general) can have dangerous interaction with other antidepressant medications (as well as many other medications). And, as you note, some of these medications require weeks to get out of the system -- some of them require six weeks or more to get off (and the weaning process should be supervised by a doctor).

During that period, without meds, the person may get worse, and the problem is that ayahuasca does not ALWAYS work for depressed people. And then you can have a situation where someone has been off their meds for weeks, compounded by the discouragement that what they had placed such hope in didn't even work. This is the exception, but it does happen.

And while part of its antidepressant action is purely physiological (MAOIs are perhaps the most effective class of antidepressants, but doctors use them only as a last resort because of the interaction problem, with certain foods as well as with other meds) ayahuasca also can bring to the surface hidden traumas and issues that can lie behind the depression. And if this is not handled skillfully, hopefully with the support of a qualified therapist (or alone, if the person is determined enough), the person may not be able to work through these issues all the way through, leaving them stuck halfway through the process, and they may be too fearful to go back in and finish the process.
Anecdotally, this is a situation not uncommonly reported on the ayahuasca forums, and then we have to encourage the person to go back in and finish the process, because otherwise they can remain "stuck" in a worse state than before. Again, this is the exception, but it does happen.

So it is possible in some cases for those reasons for ayahuasca to worsen clinical depression. But that is the exception. Generally speaking, ayahuasca can be one of the most effective treatments for depression.

It should be noted that, while the DMT component (the Schedule 1 drug that is usually in ayahuasca brews, contained in the additive plants) gets the most publicity and interest, it is actually the other component, the ayahuasca vine (Banisteriopsis caapi) that contains the chemicals that have the physiological effect on depression. Some people have successfully used daily small doses of ayahuasca vine, without the DMT, to treat their depression. In other words, you can get the physiological anti-depressant effects without the hallucinatory effects. As I noted before, ayahuasca (vine) has the long-term effects of increasing serotonin receptors in the brain, making the brain more able to use serotonin even when it is low, which can lead to permanent improvement in depression.

Ayahuasca is potentially one of the best treatments for clinical depression, but unfortunately. research and double-blind studies are hampered by the legality problem.

(By the way, earlier I mentioned that bipolar disorder can be made worse -- this is because, for someone with bipolar disorder, the "afterglow" state I described before can lead to a manic state that can last for days, weeks, or months.)

So again, the legal avenues need to be opened for research on ayahuasca to develop effective therapies.

BTW, corboy, you also mention diabetes and pre-diabetes. Ayahuasca can increase the body's sensitivity to insulin, which can be beneficial for the pre-diabetic. But for someone who actually has diabetes, and is on medication or special diet to balance their insulin and blood sugar, increasing sensitivity to insulin has the danger of causing a blood sugar crash. Anyone with diabetes who is considering taking ayahuasca needs to talk with their doctor about adjusting their medications to prevent this.

These are just more reasons why inexperienced amateurs like Trinity and company should not be in charge of administering this powerful medicine indiscriminately to people.

Dear Gayle ...so nice to have a pro on this expose of Trinity .

As far as depression...I know all about it ...I went into a very big one after my beloved wife died in 1995 ...and as a speed reader I read a lot of books about depression and I was also medicated for years

This is a very interesting subject ...who is qualified to diagnose
if its small depression ....deep clinical depression ...or a BI POLAR condition

then there is the fast cycle BI POLAR and the long cycle BI POLAR
in other word some people can be depress for a week and manic for a week
and some others can be depressed for months and manic for months .

Its complicated and not to be diagnose by TNT and his side kicks like ...Mark Rolland Stakman or Frenziska Hoffman
The idiot sees $$$$ and thats all