Gayle thank you for laying this out in detail.

AH gets video testimonies from people who are in that afterglow and uses this to promote their business.

Trinity may have a cultic hold on at least one of his inner circle already.


gayle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to add more about ayahuasca, especially
> as it relates to cultism.
>
> Ayahuasca is different from recreational drugs and
> drugs of abuse, including alcohol, in that those
> normally make one feel good when one is under the
> effects, and then one feels bad afterward.
> Ayahuasca, on the other hand, is at best an
> unpleasant experience. It can be a physical and
> mental ordeal. You have to have courage and maybe
> a touch of masochism to do it.
>
> But on the other side of the ordeal is the
> euphoric afterglow. This comes from both
> physiological reasons and psychological reasons
> (facing and purging inner demons, etc). For
> clinically depressed people, it can be the only
> time that they have experienced joy and happiness
> since they can remember. While this afterglow
> doesn't last more than a few days, just having the
> experience to help their brain remember what joy
> actually feels like can be a miracle for a
> clinically depressed person.
>
> In this afterglow, which is most intense
> immediately after the ceremony, you feel in love
> with the whole world and with everyone you see.
> You love and trust everyone. In this open state,
> you could be extremely susceptible to cultist
> brainwashing (as long as it is all washed down
> with hugs and smiles and love-love-love). It's
> scary, to me, to think of ayahuasca being in the
> hands of cult leaders.
>
> This, I feel, is the danger here, the real safety
> issue. But, as I am sure that everyone here
> knows, the law has nothing to say about cultism.
> The First Amendment prohibits any legal
> discrimination based on religious beliefs.
>
> So the only safety issue that can be
> brought up to the DEA is the issue of unqualified
> leaders who are unequipped to handle crises that
> can come up and who can even make people's
> problems worse. Which is indeed a genuine
> problem. People do -- rarely -- get traumatized
> in badly run ceremonies.
>
> But between me and the cult forum, I don't feel
> that is the most important danger. The real
> danger would be to let cult leaders get hold of
> this medicine. That is a very scary thought to me.

Quote
dabcult

Most people who take ayahuasca ARE benefitted, some experience tremendous benefit and healing. From my experience, the number of people with bad outcomes may be only about 2-3%. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU GET THESE NUMBERS ?
Long term effect on the brain ...we do not know

Well, I described my credentials for being able to make an educated guess. And there is a tremendous amount of academic research being done, including neurological research. I belong to a network of academic researchers on ayahuasca that includes several hundred people and a lot of discussion of research findings.

Quote
dabc
have also see ...people that are long time leaders in the Santo Daime people who have drank gallons and gallons of the brew ...that have become overcome by
lust and started to use their "LEADER" PADRIHO ....position to abuse sexully many many gulible woman.

Yes, I have heard about that, and that happens at the retreats in Peru and Ecuador as well (as I mentioned). That is a manifestation of how easy it is to take advantage of people in the afterglow. People are naturally gullible when they are in the afterglow state.

And as far as long-term effects on the brain, one long-term change that has been shown has been an increase in serotonin receptors, which means that if the brain has limited serotonin, it can use it more efficiently. This is safer than antidepressants that increase serotonin itself, and is one of the reason that long-term ayahuasca use can create permanent improvement in many cases of clinical depression. There are hundreds of studies of ayahuasca and ayahuasca use, from many different angles -- psychology, neurology, sociology, and others -- and more research being done all the time.

Dear Gayle I appreciate so much having your expert opinion on this forum THANK YOU ...As far as the benifits of ayahuaska for depression ...possibly truth
but if that depression is related to a diagnosis of being BI POLAR
(and as church leaders who are untrained in psychology diagnosis ) you never know if the new participant is only suffering from depression or is BI POLAR) in my experience the brew can make a person mood swing ...very deep in one direction and then very deep in another direction......not good ...there as been a few suicides in Argentina after Ayahuaska meetings ...(TNT and his gang have no expertise to diagnose a client ...its all brother and sister you will have "AMAZING " experiences
I think TNT favorite word is "AMAZING "
Santo Daime followers also use often large quantities of marijuana
The head of that church..padrino ALFREDO is known to be a daily user so are many other Padrinos like Paolo Roberto ( a dangerous guy )
But a few do not smoke at all ..like ALEX ...I certainly do not smoke anymore .
Padrino Sebastian unfortunately introduce pot in the 70 ies as part of the ritual ...Something that Maestro Ireneo (the orinator of the religion ) had prohibited (he is even on record to have help in the 1940 ies people stop smoking pot )
Now there is hundreds if not thousands Santo Daime followers that are addicted to pot(THEY CALL POT ..SANTA MARIA )...you cannot get addicted to ayahuasca ...put pot is another story .Second generation families in Santo Daime have many kids addicted to pot ...even in Mapia the headquaters of the church in Brasil
I have made a few videos to point that out ...But Santo Daime organisation as beg me to take them down ..and I did ...so as not to cause trouble in their legality in America ...but there is a big problem there ...pot just numb the mind .I also love many aspect of Santo Daime and my closet friends are part of the religion ...and I attend a church where pot is prohibited.
The legal churches in OREGON have a strick policy of NO pot in the church or around the church ...and leaders there do not smoke pot ....and when Brasilian leaders come to OREGON they are told very forcebly ....NO POT AROUND THE CHURCH
IT COULD CAUSE TROUBLE TO THEIR LEGAL STATUS ..
We do not know if TNT is using pot or not ....DO YOU KNOW ? He as talk about his ingestion of San Pedro ...and other psychidelics but does he smoke pot
will his church smoke pot ?I wonder what he will say to the US goverment about
the whats in and whats out as far as drugs in his church
PAYOTE..MUSHROOMS SAN PEDRO MARIJUANA all sacrements ?

I wonder why Trinity and Marc initially chose Washington atate? Did they imagine that our marijuana laws [www.liq.wa.gov] somehow would apply to other drugs - because they don't.

Maybe Trinity views Washington as in a gold rush, and he wants to benefit. Maybe customers are more likely to believe his false claims of legality, because they equate Washington with "legal".

Trinity originally had promised another location, one near the Columbia River, on the Washington state side.

AH on their website includes guidelines to refrain from alcohol and marijuana beginning two weeks before retreat.

But I don't know if marijuana was used out on the land, don't know what drugs Marc and Franziska were using.

I wonder if some of Trinity's team is still out on the land. It is a rustic situation out on rural land, especially if Marc still isn't allowing people full use of the indoor bathrooms.

We know the Washington state AH operation is illegal and unsafe. I'm curious about the safety also of the members of Trinity's inner circle. How is Trinity treating them?

Hi, trying to answer questions from the last two posts, not necessarily in order ...


I'm sure the reason he picked Washington state was because the Pacific NW is a good market for this kind of thing. The place is only an hour or two from Seattle, Olympia, and Portland, all strong counterculture areas.

I am told that marijuana use is discouraged there.

As for how Trinity treats his people, I have been in touch with four disillusioned ex-employees who felt exploited and mistreated. But I don't want to try to speak for them.

Now, as far as the questions raised about the Santo Daime (of which I am a member)... there are a lot of good and sincere people in the Daime, and I wouldn't want to endanger their existing legality, but there are a lot of questionable things (to put in mildly) in the Daime.

The marijuana use is controversial but widespread in Brazil. Dabcult is correct that the Oregon churches forbid it because of their legal agreement. I think that that still holds even though marijuana has now been legalized in Oregon.

But what I find the most dangerous is that some Daime churches encourage "mediumship," that is, possession or "incorporation" of whatever "entities" come along, indisciminately. This is because in Brazil there is a strong Afro-Brazilian culture (Umbanda, Candomble, etc) and this became absorbed by many Daime churches there, but mixing African-style possession with a strong psychoactive substance is one of the most alarming things I have ever seen. The founder of the Daime was a black man, but he was completely against it, and it only started happening after his death. He also didn't allow marijuana in the ceremonies, but didn't seem to be concerned about people using it outside of ceremony, because there didn't seem to be much of it then around where he was. Nowadays, though, I hear, cocaine addiction is a growing problem in Mapia. It certainly has not turned out to be the utopia that it was originally envisioned to be.

But I don't want to divert this thread into talking about the Daime.

Dear Gaile ...you are not diverting the thread ...on the contrary ...you are pointing out some of the dangers ....as most people do not have a clue of that medicine and all it can do ...good and bad ...Our Santo Daime experiences can bring clarity to what could be a tragedy in the making

I was alarm when I went to Santo Daime ceremonies for the so called
"illumination works "was practice and this with total NEW COMERS to Santo Daime
Very very scary Spirits of the Astral using the Daime sessions to possess the body of participants IT DID LOOK LIKE ROSEMARY BABY POSSESSIONS)....and the Paulo Roberto ....and his son ...and in some sessions in the US and in Brasil also with his wife ....charging $5,000 us for 5 days(that one is in Rio De Janerio) ...promising that he will deposses the person ....and get spiritual benifits for allowing spooks to be liberated in the light..
The idea is that the spirits will take advantage of a Daime session and with the help of the Padrino ....they will be liberated in the light ..
I HAD TO DEAL WITH A LAWYER TO FORCE PAULO ROBERTO E SILVA TO STOP DOING THIS WORK IN AMERICA WITH NEW COMERS ....PAOLO AS PUT THIS PROMISE IN WRITING FOR ME AND THE LAWYER..THAT FROM LAST YEAR HE WOULD ONLY DO THIS WORK WITH FERDADOS (PEOPLE WHO ARE INITIATED ...OR HAVE A STAR) I spoke up and got in lots of troubles with his followers
Now they will not even talk to me ....Santo Daime is not one religion
it as become in many ways ....many cults within a religion .some better than others b]Paulo[/b] Roberto E Silva is probably the worst exemple ....many churches of Santo Daime will not let him in the door of their churches since he as also use his position and charisma and powers to have sex with ....ladies of his church ...and other churches (he says he is now cure of those errors ...but who knows ? )
So this bring us back to TNT Guzman ...a total neophyte compare to the Santo Daime Padrinos....What the Hell is he gonna do if such spirits start possessing participants of his ceremonies ?....call 911 ?..Now he is inviting who knows who Peruvian Shamans to lead ceremonies in Peru ...and talking of inviting them to the USA ...are some of them practicing UMBANDA?
Anyone thinking of doing works with those guys are just olaying russian roulette with their precious brain.I am always amaze how many people are just going in the jungles of Peru and doing Ayahuaska with who knows who and putting their sanity and life on the line ...and here we have a super salesman dpoing bombastic videos ...Brothers and sisters Trinity Guznam here with some more AMAZING AMAZING news .....Yes right ...he remind me of the old snake oil salesman.

I appreciate the Daime discussion, gives us some larger context as we look at Trinity.

Trinity's right hand man Dylan Guss is now looking for experienced guides to lead day hikes in Pisac, once a week, 18 people at a time. Also "sweat lodge facilitaters" who will do once a week ceremonies for 18 people.

I imagine Trinity wants to bring in some $ through this next round of retreats, keep people hooked, and add to his own autobiography of himself as an amazing guy. Then he could return to USA in triumph and create an unethical ayahuasca empire.

Hopefully his plans can be curtailed.

Quote
dabcult
I was alarm when I went to Santo Daime ceremonies for the so called
"illumination works "was practice and this with total NEW COMERS to Santo Daime
Very very scary Spirits of the Astral using the Daime sessions to possess the body of participants IT DID LOOK LIKE ROSEMARY BABY POSSESSIONS)....and the Paulo Roberto ....and his son ...and in some sessions in the US and in Brasil also with his wife ....charging $5,000 us for 5 days(that one is in Rio De Janerio) ...promising that he will deposses the person ....and get spiritual benifits for allowing spooks to be liberated in the light..
The idea is that the spirits will take advantage of a Daime session and with the help of the Padrino ....they will be liberated in the light ..
I HAD TO DEAL WITH A LAWYER TO FORCE PAULO ROBERTO E SILVA TO STOP DOING THIS WORK IN AMERICA WITH NEW COMERS ....PAOLO AS PUT THIS PROMISE IN WRITING FOR ME AND THE LAWYER..THAT FROM LAST YEAR HE WOULD ONLY DO THIS WORK WITH FERDADOS (PEOPLE WHO ARE INITIATED ...OR HAVE A STAR) I spoke up and got in lots of troubles with his followers
Now they will not even talk to me

Wow. That is great. Paolo Roberto is bad news but he is like a worshipped cult leader to many of his followers. I wonder how you could do that when those churches affiliated with PR are not even legal to start with?

Do you know the history of how Umbanda became incorporated into Santo Daime? It is a rather sordid story. Ge Marques did a study of that history and wrote a long paper about it. I will look for the link and send it to you in PM when I find it.

Quote
dabcult
....Santo Daime is not one religion
it as become in many ways ....many cults within a religion .

I would completely agree with that. SD doesn't fit the classic profile of a cult but there are churches within it that are cultlike.

Quote
dabcult
.Now he is inviting who knows who Peruvian Shamans to lead ceremonies in Peru ...and talking of inviting them to the USA ...are some of them practicing UMBANDA?

Fortunately not. That is distinctively Brazilian. It is virtually unknown in Peru.

Gayle, other than ONAC and its various branches, do you know of anyone else running commercial public ayahuasca operations in USA, similar to Trinity? Similar in New Age hustler marketer style?