Whether or not one has doubts about the facts surrounding the events of Sept 11, it would seem that post-Sept 11 America has, in many respects, taken on many aspects of a cult. As many of us know, cults can range in size from 2 people to millions throughout a nation. Consider some of the aspects that make up cults; many of them would fit with the atmosphere of post-Sept 11 America:

- Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability: the current Administration has been given tremendous powers to wage war without the normal checks of Congress. It also has the power to curtail civil liberties to a large degree in pursuit of the "War on Terrorism".

- No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry: note the withering attacks on those who dare to voice opinions contrary to that of the current Administration, like Rep Murtha and Michael Moore. "You are either with us or against us."

- Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions: ie: al Qaeda. This group is used to keep people in a constant state of fear, to remind people why the Administration needs more power and has a need to launch foreign wars. Any time there are questions about Administration policies, we are told that they are necessary because of the plans and possible attacks of al Qaeda.

- The group/leader is always right: Since the President claims he hears God's voice therefore he cannot be wrong. "You are either with us or against us."

- The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible: ie: Bush hears the voice of God: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did"

- There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader: ie: Farhenheit 9/11, news media, BBC, NY Times.

Thoughts?

Hello mjr:

I agree with you, and think that many others would also.

However, I believe the guidelines for this message board prohibit discussion of politics. Previous political discussions have been cut short.

Did you see the recent flick "Good Night and Good Luck"?

George Klooney produced it. Seems politically appropriate to demonstrate similarities to the current administration and historical McCarthy hearings "against communism."

As long as humans have existed, there have been those who use coercive methods to unduly influence others' behaviors for their own benefit.

It is important to protect ourselves with awareness. However, with increased information about such methods, the cults also become increasingly sophisticated.

Happy Holi-daze all!
toni

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Toni
Happy Holi-daze all!

[img:a0bd3e3213]http://images5.theimagehosting.com/laugh.16.gif[/img:a0bd3e3213]



Mjr40, your points on exaggerated fears is a good call. I don't know how much is simply irrational fears and knee jerk reactions, and how much is fanning of public fears to increase power. I think that would make the difference between being cult-like or simply reactionary and going into a panicky fight or flight mode.

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Mjr40
- Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions: ie: al Qaeda. This group is used to keep people in a constant state of fear, to remind people why the Administration needs more power and has a need to launch foreign wars.

I think a lot of the fear is because we've grown up on things like James Bond where super-sophisticated, highly financed, technological rogue enemies lurk. The fact of the matter is these guys hijacked planes with box cutters. These guys were flagged not to be allowed on plans, yet incompetence allowed them on. (No need for Patriot Acts, and stripping of civil liberties -- people just need to be fired and ones put in that can do their jobs.)

Bin Laden is not a James Bond villain as we're lead to believe. Yes he has/had some decent cash, and pretty much the best he could do with it was to give some guys flying lessons. The plan seemed impressive simply due to airport employee incompetence, and irresponsibility on the part of airplane staff handing over an airplane because they were threatened with a box cutter! I mean, c'mon. Yes, you may get some nasty cuts which will need stitches after you wrestle the guy down. But it's complete cowardice and incompetence to hand over the controls of your plane to someone threatening you with a pair of needle-nose pliers.

Couldn't help notice some more evidence recently from an AP article:
Facing angry criticism and challenges to his authority in Congress, President Bush on Saturday unapologetically defended his administration's right to conduct secret post-Sept. 11 spying in the United States as "critical to saving American lives."

Since October 2001, the super-secret National Security Agency has eavesdropped on the international phone calls and e-mails of people inside the United States without court-approved warrants. Bush said steps like these would help fight terrorists like those who involved in the Sept. 11 plot.

"The activities I have authorized make it more likely that killers like these 9/11 hijackers will be identified and located in time," Bush said. "And the activities conducted under this authorization have helped detect and prevent possible terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad."

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It would seem to me that this is more evidence of cultic actions in a post-Sept 11 world. The leader is doing the following:
- demanding the he make unilateral decisions with no oversight, checks or critiques
- invoking fear in the form of an external enemy
- demands that freedoms be given up in the name of protection from this enemy.

These actions are all similar to what a cult leader uses to gain and keep followers.

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Toni
However, I believe the guidelines for this message board prohibit discussion of politics. Previous political discussions have been cut short.

I agree, I don't want to discuss politics, just how cultic psychology is being used and applied in our political system and society currently.

I believe a thread like this is exactly the reason that political debate is prohibited. With all due respect, the same arguments might be made against the previous president, the one before him, etc.

It never ceases to amaze me how critical thinking gets thrown out depending upon whose side (politically speaking) is in power.

Ever Onward!

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skinnyfatts
I believe a thread like this is exactly the reason that political debate is prohibited.

This thread is not about politics; it is about the cultic aspects of our society that have emerged after the events of 9/11.

Okay on the flip side of the "cultic" mentality... we could discuss the "political correctness" that has people so afraid of "offending" anyone who happens to be a follower if Islam, that islamic terrorist cults are largely ignored and allowed to spread their hatred and fear. It's like the reaction to "with us or against us" has been just as extreme and limiting and no one wins. The cults are able to continue their evil work (and continue to tarnish the image of Islam as a whole), and the victims are helpless in a society that labels them "intolerant" when they try to speak out.

P.S. I don't see how we can debate the "cult psychology" of Bush's actions post-9/11 without being political, and others have stated that isn't allowed here. If the moderator says the topic is okay then I will add my thoughts on that matter.

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Toni

Did you see the recent flick "Good Night and Good Luck"?

George Klooney produced it. Seems politically appropriate to demonstrate similarities to the current administration and historical McCarthy hearings "against communism."

Excellent point Toni. "Good Night and Goodluck" (about the McCarthy era) brings up many salient points with regards to the use of cultic psychology on a national scale:
- intimidation
- culture of fear
- accusations without being grounded in merit
- focus on the personality of a central figure
- suspension of freedom of thought
- lack of dialectical debate
- use of an external enemy to justify suspension of normal freedoms
- character assassination of those with 'improper opinions'.

Many of the same tactics that McCarthy used are being used in our society today, this time with the justification of the Global War on Terror.

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YellowBeard

Mjr40, your points on exaggerated fears is a good call. I don't know how much is simply irrational fears and knee jerk reactions, and how much is fanning of public fears to increase power. I think that would make the difference between being cult-like or simply reactionary and going into a panicky fight or flight mode.

Thank you YellowBeard. Your point is a good one - there is a certain "fog", if you will, that has been placed around many of these events. Once the fog is in place, it becomes difficult to tell the difference between what is a logical reaction and what is a manipulation of fears in order to accumulate more power. It should be noted that this "fog" concept is also one that is used by cults, particularly secretive ones like Opus Dei.