Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 27, 2008 09:04PM
Advice for those quitting:
From
[knappfamilycounseling.com]
Though Mr Knapp does not say so, those who leave group A, not knowing it has fostered an addictive biochemical pattern of meditation/trance addiction, may be at risk of guru hopping to another group B.
Friends who join in solidarity after leaving cult A may, in all innocence refer one another into cult B. One may get involved with cult B and then refer one friend and another friend, and bang, they're all cross addicted to B.
Someone from Siddha yoga went so far as to suggest that the mind states cultivated in that group functioned as an addictive drug:
From "Shakti as Drug - Food For Thought "
[groups.google.com]
From
[knappfamilycounseling.com]
Quote
As to the social/environmental: You may have to decide what kind of environment you surround yourself with during this difficult time.
In my counseling experience, people who surround themselves with friends who continue to meditate — or at least support the TM Movement and the Maharishi — have a difficult time cutting back or ceasing meditation.
Just as an alcoholic has to choose to avoid bars and drinking parties — even drinking friends, it is possible, although not certain, you may need to change your social environment to successfully cease TM.
Though Mr Knapp does not say so, those who leave group A, not knowing it has fostered an addictive biochemical pattern of meditation/trance addiction, may be at risk of guru hopping to another group B.
Friends who join in solidarity after leaving cult A may, in all innocence refer one another into cult B. One may get involved with cult B and then refer one friend and another friend, and bang, they're all cross addicted to B.
Someone from Siddha yoga went so far as to suggest that the mind states cultivated in that group functioned as an addictive drug:
Quote
How many times have you said or heard someone say after a long chant or meditation that they felt "stoned"?
Referring to the '60's reference of using drugs, there are many similarities between the two. At the same time, the spiritual communities would have you believe that their 'high' is safer and cleaner than drugs.
I have serious doubts about that.
Shakti, as generated by chanting and meditating, easily moves a person
beyond 'uncomfortable' feelings. We are told that it is 'good' because we
are moving beyond those feelings, that we are 'purifying' them. And yet,
it never seems to stop. The 'feelings' keep coming back and we keep
chanting and meditating to purify them and to get high.
I can remember incredible ecstatic experiences that truly transformed me, for a time. The interesting thing was that when I returned home after a visit at the ashram, the normal range of feelings always returned.
We were told to attend the local center and do daily japa (another way of generating shakti or a change in mood) to stay in touch.
Mostly we are told to come back, at a significant cost.
I am not against all chanting and meditation, but believe that if it is to
be used it should be in balance with the other aspects of our lives. Do we
attend to our feelings? Do we attend to our physical needs? Are we using shakti to avoid the painful realities of our life?
With the use of shakti, we are given the social reinforcements and
supports to continue the 'spiritual' practices!
We are told and we tell ourselves how special we are because the rest of the world doesn't have the same experiences we do. We develop an all knowing look and language to support our use of shakti.
Just as people who have addiction problems, we also develop symptoms of
abuse that get in the way of our daily functioning. Some of these might
include:
1. Use of shakti to avoid feelings and critical thinking
2. Spending money we don't have to attend another program, to get another 'hit'
3. Isolate ourselves from others who do not use shakti
4. Lie to support the organization that delivers the shakti
5. Developing a dependency upon the person (guru) and the organization
that delivers the shakti
6. Breaking the law (physical and sexual assaults on individuals, forging
documents, smuggling items into India and the US) under the guise of
protecting the shakti
7. Use of shakti to develop open and receptive states in people, then
'programming' them with the goals of the organization
8. Developing illness by not getting enough sleep in search of shakti
9. Call in sick at work to do seva, to get ready for a program and more
shakti
I have also observed shakti used to heal.
I remember having the flu and attending a spiritual healing center. The healer 'worked on me' and I felt a strong energy, similar to but not exactly the same type of energy I had felt at the Siddha Yoga ashram.
Almost immediately, I began to feel better. This healer had been trained to do 'spiritual healing'. She clearly 'channeled' some energy to me and I felt better. I've had other instances of healing from individuals who channeled energy.
It seems to me that if energy can be used to help can't it be used to hurt?
From "Shakti as Drug - Food For Thought "
[groups.google.com]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Vanda Mikoloski?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: September 28, 2008 05:11AM
There is a comedian Vanda Mikoloski who appears to be hooked in somehow with Byron Katie, Landmark, Ramtha, and Eckhart Tolle, and others.
It would take some work to find out how deep the criticism is, or if its even a type of comedy-front and lite-criticism as a type of promotion of the LGAT enlightenment salespeople?
Stephen Sashen, and other Byron Katie people also TRY to use comedy as a way to communicate with people.
its an interesting angle to look at.
Vanda Mikoloski and LGAT Enlightenment?
[forum.culteducation.com]
It would take some work to find out how deep the criticism is, or if its even a type of comedy-front and lite-criticism as a type of promotion of the LGAT enlightenment salespeople?
Stephen Sashen, and other Byron Katie people also TRY to use comedy as a way to communicate with people.
its an interesting angle to look at.
Vanda Mikoloski and LGAT Enlightenment?
[forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Blogs
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: October 13, 2008 07:54PM
Pretty much every day I receive a Google alert on Byron Katie and almost always the alert tips me off to several blogs that reference BK.
Here is an example, from a blog called "Inner180":
[[url=http://inner180.com/2008/10/12/joy-diet-day-12-who-would-you-be-without-your-story/]Joy Diet Day 12-Who Would You Be Without Your Story?[/url]]
A woman named Terry writes the blog and in her latest entry she says:
There is an "About Terry" section in the blog and it has this to say about Terry:
Even more shocking to me is that a "former trial lawyer" could fall for The Work. But then I think that shows how insidious The Work is.
Oy vay.
Here is an example, from a blog called "Inner180":
[[url=http://inner180.com/2008/10/12/joy-diet-day-12-who-would-you-be-without-your-story/]Joy Diet Day 12-Who Would You Be Without Your Story?[/url]]
A woman named Terry writes the blog and in her latest entry she says:
I find this pretty scary. Terry doesn't say why she wouldn't have gone to the school if she'd thought about it more, but I can imagine stuff happened in the school that was, uh, freaky.Quote
Some of the comments earlier this week reminded me of a time when my fear seemed both relentless and no longer tolerable. One night, on Byron Katie’s website, the line, “Who would you be without your story?” leapt of the screen and smacked me right between the eyes. On the spot, I registered for her nine-day school, even though I knew virtually nothing about it.
The school began one week later, which was fortunate, because if I’d had longer to think about it, I wouldn’t have gone.
There is an "About Terry" section in the blog and it has this to say about Terry:
And so, once again we have someone using The Work to make money. What a shocker.Quote
Whether you’re stuck without a vision, have a goal you can’t reach, or want to experience greater satisfaction in life, my job is to help you get what you want. My clients are smart, competent people who want to live to their fullest potential. I help them find what they really want and deal with whatever is getting in the way.
I offer one-on-one coaching, small group coaching, telecourses, and mentoring for new coaches. In addition to being a Martha Beck Master Certified Coach, I’m trained in Positive Psychology, the psychology of what goes right in life, The Work of Byron Katie, a process that dismantles limiting beliefs, and HeartMath, a scientifically proven stress reduction technique.
I’m a former trial lawyer who searched everywhere for an answer to this question: how could I create a life of fulfillment, authenticity, and happiness for myself?
Even more shocking to me is that a "former trial lawyer" could fall for The Work. But then I think that shows how insidious The Work is.
Oy vay.
Byron Katie and shill-blogs like Inner180 by Terry DeMeo (Huntress)
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: October 15, 2008 03:29AM
Thanks for posting this info. This is another angle in the Byron Katie empire, and many others do it as well.
This woman, Terry DeMeo of www.Inner180.com, is doing the Byron Katie sales-method to perfection.
1) Target people with unbearable pain and suffering and misery, who are desperate.
2) tell them Byron Katie can end their suffering instantly.
3) sign them up now.
Notice how Terry has constructed basically a hypnotic sales-script below.
Here is the sales-Story she is pitching below...
Its late at night...you are depressed...
You are desperate, alone, in misery and pain...you are on the BK website...BK's words LEAP OUT and SMACK YOU BETWEEN THE EYES (which is how you can kill a person instantly). ON THE SPOT, out of pure emotion and pain, you go and drop $5,000 to Byron Katie on your credit card, or to one of her salespeople like Terry DeMeo.
NO KNOWLEDGE, knowing nothing about it. (she wants you to be uniformed).
NO THINKING, as self-reflection will make you realize you are being scammed.
These folks are just doing the persuasive training methods right by the book.
Notice her imagery? Byron Katie is going to smack you between the eyes...smacking someone between the eyes can kill them instantly, or give a person permanent brain damage.
Also, notice her blog is called Inner180.
She wants to turn you around 180 degrees, which is backwards. She wants to turn you UPSIDE DOWN and BACKWARDS.
These are all very carefully chosen concepts and words.
These people are intelligent salespeople who know exactly what they are doing.
Terry DeMeo of www.inner180.com is very slick, and very smart. She even poses just like Byron Katie.
Byron Katie II
If people did the OPPOSITE of what Terry says, they would be fine.
Become an informed consumer, don't make impulse purchases based on emotion, think things over carefully.
Terry poses a nice picture, but her salesmethods are far far worse than a ruthless used car salesperson. This woman is way out there, as anyone who is telling depressed and desperate people to NOT think, and to make huge large purchases based on pure emotion without any knowledge is a ruthless person. That is some ugly shit, even worse as she poses a nice picture.
Notice her photo is named "HUNTRESS Demeo". Demeo is her last name...but HUNTRESS? Is that like HUNTER? As in kill the beast with a shot between the eyes?
Who wants to be the prey of the Huntress Terry DeMeo?
[inner180.com]
[inner180.files.wordpress.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2008 03:32AM by The Anticult.
This woman, Terry DeMeo of www.Inner180.com, is doing the Byron Katie sales-method to perfection.
1) Target people with unbearable pain and suffering and misery, who are desperate.
2) tell them Byron Katie can end their suffering instantly.
3) sign them up now.
Notice how Terry has constructed basically a hypnotic sales-script below.
Here is the sales-Story she is pitching below...
Its late at night...you are depressed...
You are desperate, alone, in misery and pain...you are on the BK website...BK's words LEAP OUT and SMACK YOU BETWEEN THE EYES (which is how you can kill a person instantly). ON THE SPOT, out of pure emotion and pain, you go and drop $5,000 to Byron Katie on your credit card, or to one of her salespeople like Terry DeMeo.
NO KNOWLEDGE, knowing nothing about it. (she wants you to be uniformed).
NO THINKING, as self-reflection will make you realize you are being scammed.
These folks are just doing the persuasive training methods right by the book.
Notice her imagery? Byron Katie is going to smack you between the eyes...smacking someone between the eyes can kill them instantly, or give a person permanent brain damage.
Also, notice her blog is called Inner180.
She wants to turn you around 180 degrees, which is backwards. She wants to turn you UPSIDE DOWN and BACKWARDS.
These are all very carefully chosen concepts and words.
These people are intelligent salespeople who know exactly what they are doing.
Terry DeMeo of www.inner180.com is very slick, and very smart. She even poses just like Byron Katie.
Byron Katie II
If people did the OPPOSITE of what Terry says, they would be fine.
Become an informed consumer, don't make impulse purchases based on emotion, think things over carefully.
Terry poses a nice picture, but her salesmethods are far far worse than a ruthless used car salesperson. This woman is way out there, as anyone who is telling depressed and desperate people to NOT think, and to make huge large purchases based on pure emotion without any knowledge is a ruthless person. That is some ugly shit, even worse as she poses a nice picture.
Notice her photo is named "HUNTRESS Demeo". Demeo is her last name...but HUNTRESS? Is that like HUNTER? As in kill the beast with a shot between the eyes?
Who wants to be the prey of the Huntress Terry DeMeo?
[inner180.com]
[inner180.files.wordpress.com]
Quote
helpme2times
Here is an example, from a blog called "Inner180":
[[url=http://inner180.com/2008/10/12/joy-diet-day-12-who-would-you-be-without-your-story/]Joy Diet Day 12-Who Would You Be Without Your Story?[/url]]
A woman named Terry writes the blog and in her latest entry she says:Quote
Some of the comments earlier this week reminded me of a time when my fear seemed both relentless and no longer tolerable. One night, on Byron Katie’s website, the line, “Who would you be without your story?” leapt of the screen and smacked me right between the eyes. On the spot, I registered for her nine-day school, even though I knew virtually nothing about it.
The school began one week later, which was fortunate, because if I’d had longer to think about it, I wouldn’t have gone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2008 03:32AM by The Anticult.
Byron Katie, Terry DeMeo (The Huntress) Aesop Wolf in Sheep's Clothing
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: October 16, 2008 06:58AM
it really is very interesting how Terry labelled her own picture, and it seems it slipped in by mistake.
Its interesting how these salespeople think of themselves as HUNTERS, and when taking photo's to use on their websites, would label the photo something like...
huntress_demeo_0111p.jpg
[inner180.files.wordpress.com]
Meanwhile they are taking lovey-dovey New Agey looking photo's, while thinking of themselves as the Hunter, and her coaching clients one assumes are the prey?
Its the classical wolves in sheeps clothing concept, but one rarely gets to see directly under the disguise, except with a mistake like uploading a photo with that kind of title.
They really all use the same method...promote themselves with some type of New Agey Love imagery, meanwhile they sees themselves as a hunter. In nature, a hunter is a predator, like a wolf.
So that is why the ancient image is so true, of a wolf taking some sheepskin and hiding under it to make the other sheep trust them, and then pouncing on them once they let the wolf into the herd.
Virtually all of these Byron Katie style "coaches" are wolves in sheeps clothing. They know if they presented themselves more honestly as a salesperson, all the sheeple would run away afraid. So the Huntress Byron Katie has to bat her eyes, smile, wear a wool sweater, and pull the wool over their eyes.
Whenever people are being dishonest, they can slip up and make mistakes, expecially when they are not big-time players yet. Its the Byron Katie wannabes that can be the most revealing.
Byron Katie is also a Huntress on the prowl, looking for easy soft-targets.
It literally is the story of the Wolf In Sheeps Clothing by Aesop. The shepherd could be a metaphor for the sheeple's critical thinking ability, which is what Byron Katie and Terry DeMeo go to great lengths to try and destroy.
[www.bartleby.com]
Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.) Fables.
The Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing
A WOLF found great difficulty in getting at the sheep owing to the vigilance of the shepherd and his dogs. But one day it found the skin of a sheep that had been flayed and thrown aside, so it put it on over its own pelt and strolled down among the sheep. The Lamb that belonged to the sheep, whose skin the Wolf was wearing, began to follow the Wolf in the Sheep’s clothing; so, leading the Lamb a little apart, he soon made a meal off her, and for some time he succeeded in deceiving the sheep, and enjoying hearty meals.
“APPEARANCES ARE DECEPTIVE.”
[i195.photobucket.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2008 07:01AM by The Anticult.
Its interesting how these salespeople think of themselves as HUNTERS, and when taking photo's to use on their websites, would label the photo something like...
huntress_demeo_0111p.jpg
[inner180.files.wordpress.com]
Meanwhile they are taking lovey-dovey New Agey looking photo's, while thinking of themselves as the Hunter, and her coaching clients one assumes are the prey?
Its the classical wolves in sheeps clothing concept, but one rarely gets to see directly under the disguise, except with a mistake like uploading a photo with that kind of title.
They really all use the same method...promote themselves with some type of New Agey Love imagery, meanwhile they sees themselves as a hunter. In nature, a hunter is a predator, like a wolf.
So that is why the ancient image is so true, of a wolf taking some sheepskin and hiding under it to make the other sheep trust them, and then pouncing on them once they let the wolf into the herd.
Virtually all of these Byron Katie style "coaches" are wolves in sheeps clothing. They know if they presented themselves more honestly as a salesperson, all the sheeple would run away afraid. So the Huntress Byron Katie has to bat her eyes, smile, wear a wool sweater, and pull the wool over their eyes.
Whenever people are being dishonest, they can slip up and make mistakes, expecially when they are not big-time players yet. Its the Byron Katie wannabes that can be the most revealing.
Byron Katie is also a Huntress on the prowl, looking for easy soft-targets.
It literally is the story of the Wolf In Sheeps Clothing by Aesop. The shepherd could be a metaphor for the sheeple's critical thinking ability, which is what Byron Katie and Terry DeMeo go to great lengths to try and destroy.
[www.bartleby.com]
Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.) Fables.
The Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing
A WOLF found great difficulty in getting at the sheep owing to the vigilance of the shepherd and his dogs. But one day it found the skin of a sheep that had been flayed and thrown aside, so it put it on over its own pelt and strolled down among the sheep. The Lamb that belonged to the sheep, whose skin the Wolf was wearing, began to follow the Wolf in the Sheep’s clothing; so, leading the Lamb a little apart, he soon made a meal off her, and for some time he succeeded in deceiving the sheep, and enjoying hearty meals.
“APPEARANCES ARE DECEPTIVE.”
[i195.photobucket.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2008 07:01AM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
hoax108
()
Date: October 16, 2008 09:36PM
Quote
corboy
Advice for those quitting:
How many times have you said or heard someone say after a long chant or meditation that they felt "stoned"?
I am not against all chanting and meditation, but believe that if it is to
be used it should be in balance with the other aspects of our lives. Do we
attend to our feelings? Do we attend to our physical needs? Are we using shakti to avoid the painful realities of our life?
Corboy,
I can definitely attest to the fact that chanting and meditation alters one's mood, similar to a "high". I have also observed people who used chanting to get a "buzz". In other words, they were not engaging in chanting to calm their mind and senses and/or to be pleasing to God, they were doing it to change their mood - in much the same way people use drugs and alcohol.
So I concur with your points. In the group (cult) I chanted with, there was no focus on balance. In fact, it was quite the opposite - we were constantly told to disregard our needs and concentrate on serving guru. Any "undo" attention paid to one's own needs was considered "maya" or illusion.
And I also believe that this group practices a form of breathing/chanting meditation to purposely make a person more susceptible to suggestion.
It seems like chanting and meditation are a real good fit for cult activity.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: October 17, 2008 02:03AM
Actually all this was from John Knapp's article--he served hard time in TM--Maharishi M Yogi's outfit.
People who have been through Siddha Yoga have noted similar mood altering effects, to the point where some use an addiction model to make sense of what they've been through.
People who have been through Siddha Yoga have noted similar mood altering effects, to the point where some use an addiction model to make sense of what they've been through.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Steven Sashen, scams, etc
Posted by:
Joel
()
Date: November 04, 2008 07:11PM
I've been heavily into Byron Katie's stuff for a year or so, and I think it really helped me at first. But I've started to have serious concerns about it, and feel like I'm going through a bit of a transition with it right now.
Where I'm at, at the moment, is this: if someone is in touch with compassion, or any sort of genuine healing insight, then it must go along with masses of humility. I don't see that humility with BK, quite the opposite, now. Action that comes out of compassion should also be free, free of charge, always. That's a belief I have, and a belief I started to question, after doing 'the work' for a while.
As soon as I let myself be swayed into questioning my thinking by someone else's agenda, I'm lost, basically. It's dangerous stuff.
It's like; she is telling me that I need to 'stay in my own business'. How would that work, exactly? By what mechanism can I allow that to go on? Only by allowing her to act as some sort of supernatural being to whom the normal rules do not apply? £65 for that please, cheers.
I have tried to separate the self-enquiry ('the work') from BK, but I've found it really difficult. It's like, her face and name are everywhere, all over it. What's that all about?
I think it's probably useful to learn a bit about 'internal cause and effect', the way my thoughts contribute to my reality, and to look at ways I can work with that. I might have gained something from all this, but there are limits to it. I need to value my own resistances at times, and not just try to question them all away.
Maybe life's just a mystery, ultimately, and anyone who claims to have a complete handle on it is deluding themselves, and/or others. I reckon that's where BK is.
Where I'm at, at the moment, is this: if someone is in touch with compassion, or any sort of genuine healing insight, then it must go along with masses of humility. I don't see that humility with BK, quite the opposite, now. Action that comes out of compassion should also be free, free of charge, always. That's a belief I have, and a belief I started to question, after doing 'the work' for a while.
As soon as I let myself be swayed into questioning my thinking by someone else's agenda, I'm lost, basically. It's dangerous stuff.
It's like; she is telling me that I need to 'stay in my own business'. How would that work, exactly? By what mechanism can I allow that to go on? Only by allowing her to act as some sort of supernatural being to whom the normal rules do not apply? £65 for that please, cheers.
I have tried to separate the self-enquiry ('the work') from BK, but I've found it really difficult. It's like, her face and name are everywhere, all over it. What's that all about?
I think it's probably useful to learn a bit about 'internal cause and effect', the way my thoughts contribute to my reality, and to look at ways I can work with that. I might have gained something from all this, but there are limits to it. I need to value my own resistances at times, and not just try to question them all away.
Maybe life's just a mystery, ultimately, and anyone who claims to have a complete handle on it is deluding themselves, and/or others. I reckon that's where BK is.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Steven Sashen, scams, etc
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: November 07, 2008 07:18AM
Hi Joel,
Thanks for adding your experience into the mix. Hopefully what you've said will help others with concerns/doubts who make their way here.
Re staying in one's own business... it sure does seem that BK is NOT in her own business when she is so bizzy "moving the work". And her face/name/etc. really is getting put out there a lot. Oy!
Thanks for adding your experience into the mix. Hopefully what you've said will help others with concerns/doubts who make their way here.
Re staying in one's own business... it sure does seem that BK is NOT in her own business when she is so bizzy "moving the work". And her face/name/etc. really is getting put out there a lot. Oy!
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Steven Sashen, scams, etc
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 07, 2008 01:45PM
well according to the Byron Katie alleged solipsism, her bidniz is our bidniz.
:-)
This "stay in your own business" gag is interesting. One could analyze in detail what that is really all about.
It seems to be a method for her to encourage people to not question her, and to become overly self-involved. Byron Katie knows the more people obsess about their own unhappiness, or lack of it, the worse it can get. Its a trap.
But I think maybe its more a method just to get people to not ask her the tough questions, and to block thinking with critical intelligence.
If someonw were to go on live TV and question her for 30 minutes, she could block most questions with those types of word games. If she gets caught in a lie, she can just tell you that its you who are lying, as that is what you are seeing, etc.
To me, its just more mind-screwing.
Byron Katie truly is bad news, its a shame people get sucked into her system.
:-)
This "stay in your own business" gag is interesting. One could analyze in detail what that is really all about.
It seems to be a method for her to encourage people to not question her, and to become overly self-involved. Byron Katie knows the more people obsess about their own unhappiness, or lack of it, the worse it can get. Its a trap.
But I think maybe its more a method just to get people to not ask her the tough questions, and to block thinking with critical intelligence.
If someonw were to go on live TV and question her for 30 minutes, she could block most questions with those types of word games. If she gets caught in a lie, she can just tell you that its you who are lying, as that is what you are seeing, etc.
To me, its just more mind-screwing.
Byron Katie truly is bad news, its a shame people get sucked into her system.
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