Re: Byron Katie (the Work), kick her out of your mind forever.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 20, 2008 09:19PM

Well I like this image... Byron Katie as Katherine Hepburn and I play the Cary Grant part:

[[url=]Katherine Hepburn and Cary Grant[/url]]

Actually there is more from the same movie that kind of fits our discussion:

[[url=]Katherine Hepburn in "The Philadelphia Story"[/url]]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2008 09:39PM by helpme2times.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: question lady ()
Date: July 21, 2008 12:07AM

Years ago, there was an Argentinian or Chilean movie about the military dictatorship that had stolen babies from their imprisoned mothers. The poor mothers were killed and the infants were adopted into the very military families complicit in the murders.

One woman, married to an officer who is childless, raises one of these babies, not at first knowing where her child is from...then is contacted by a brave grandmother who has sought to trace what happened to her disappeared daughter.

The adoptive mother, to her horror, begins getting hard evidence that her beloved daughter was stolen from a murdered prisoner.

Tormented, the adoptive mother tries to discuss this with her parish priest in the confessional.

He doesnt want to hear the story, it is too upsetting to him. So he tries to shut her up, reciting the words of absolution.

The brave and tormented woman shouts, 'I dont want absolution. I want the truth!'

And, despite the terrible pain and social cost, despite the rage of her officer husband, this woman who prefers the pain of being awake to the comfortable slumber of complicity, arranges to return her adopted child to her grandmother.

The film is about 20 years old, I wish I could remember the name.

But its enough to remember 'I dont want absolution. I want the truth'--even when the truth hurts.

The film is "La Historia Official". []

It is excellent.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: solea13 ()
Date: July 21, 2008 12:48AM

Yes, (going back to the discussion of Gurumayi's disappearance) and what about when the Guru unexpectedly and suddenly dies?

There was no instruction left regarding who should be the successor or any other instructions indicating how the Group should proceed in the event of our Guru's death.

I now know of at least two people who took their lives in the wake of his passing.

Some people saw the fact that the Guru made no contingency plans as part of (yet another) 'test' from God. In all the fear and confusion, childish explanations and rationalizations for such tragedies were sought on the part of the disicples.

The main jist of it always ended up being was that nobody could judge the situation and just to continue the practice with a sincere heart and all would be well etc. etc.

They said that the Guru wanted people to learn to stand alone as adults, not to depend on him any more and that was why he died.

What a pity that after all those years of child-like dependancy some people felt that they were unable to 'grow up' overnight after the shock of his death to the extent where they felt that life was no longer worth living.

Not forgetting that the option of receiving professional psychological help was strongly discouraged in the group at risk of being shunned.

What kind of a system is that, to leave people spiritually/emotionally/psychologically adrift with no recourse to outside help?

It wouldn't surprise me if more than a few ex-Syddha devotees have experienced moderate to severe psychological problems or even suicidal thoughts as a result of Gurumayi's abandonment.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2008 12:51AM by solea13.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 21, 2008 06:05AM

Questionlady, that was the film, all right!


'I dont want absolution, I want the truth.'

The whole movie theatre audience broke into applause at that one.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and flirting with abandonment...
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 21, 2008 12:06PM

by the way, this does have the same odor as the Byron Katie Europle salespitch where she is saying,

...this may be my last visit to the body is tired, and I have had cancer cancer cancer cancer cancer cancer...

Its yanking one the same string, that she might be retiring, dying, or whatever.
It wouldn't be surprising if BK retired in a few years, they are raking in serious cash now, millions a month.
Or she could just keep going for years.

But you often see with these guru's how they constantly yank on the illness, death, retirement strings, to make more sales, and also keep people feeling worried about them.
Of course they often say the exact opposite of what they are doing, and make them feel guilty about feeling worried.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) N. Taylor Interview
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 21, 2008 09:32PM

Another person falls under Byron Katie's spell:

[[url=]Byron Katie: The Raw Interview[/url]]

Warning: if you click on that link to read the interview, there is a very annoying "soundtrack" playing. How is someone supposed to concentrate on reading the interview with that playing? I had to turn my computer volume off. I can't help but wonder if it's Korn music, which JJ said was used in the 9-day school to trigger people's worst memories/traumas?

Anyway, this is an excerpt from the interview by N. Taylor:

N: I have some familiarity with the Work. **Melony and Steve H. join the table**

Hi — awesome — you guys joined us... And I'm thinking back to when I first came across the Work. The Work can feel extreme...

BK: Yes. It is very extreme. **K’s eyes dancing/sparkling** It is extremely extreme. We are confronting our whole identity. We are confronting the entire world in our mind and we believe it to be. So we're questioning the world as we believe it to be so we're questioning the world as we believe it to be and when we do that we lose that world. [Yes] And it leaves us in a state we think we don't know how to deal with. But in truth, we know how to deal with it very well. Because what we're left with basically is “how can I help?" and that's what we love to do, is help each other.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work), Oprah Winfrey, "Soul Series" Radio
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 21, 2008 09:51PM

Byron Katie is to appear on Oprah Winfrey's "Soul Series" radio show on Monday, July 28th, August 4th, and August 11th at 4am, 10am, 4pm and 10pm (all times Eastern). Hopefully people drawn to the show will look into criticism of Ms. Katie's work, such as in this thread:

[[url=,12906]Byron Katie (The Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??[/url]]

Re: Byron Katie (the Work), Oprah Winfrey, "Soul Series" Radio
Posted by: question lady ()
Date: July 22, 2008 03:20AM

Uh oh. What a nightmare.

Why aren't the legitimate cognitive therapy professionals speaking out about this bastardization of the techniques? Have the Aaron Beck or David Burns people said anything?

Re: Byron Katie (the Work), Oprah Winfrey, "Soul Series" Radio
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 22, 2008 04:03AM

A good question, question lady. I will see if I can find out anything about it.

Whilst reading Burns' "Feeling Good" book, I have been wondering if BK has "borrowed" from it, as Burns talks a lot about one's thoughts causing problems (aka suffering). I think the book originally came out in 1980, some years before the cockroach made its debut.

Byron Katie (the Work) David Wise PhD, financial conflict of interest
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 22, 2008 05:35AM

I doubt that any of the real cognitive therapy people would make any specific comments about a specific person. Its been going on for years.
Ever since the hundreds of scientific studies have proven aspects of cognitive therapy do work, every Tom, Dick and Katie has been trying to steal some thunder.

What they have done many times, is to outline specifically what their kind of CT is, and how it was tested. All of that info is available.
They have also said if you want to do that kind of therapy, get a direct referral from them, someone who is licensed.

So they have spoken out very clearly to stay away from all the unlicensed therapists out there, and Byron Katie is totally unlicensed. So they have already spoken out against her, and all of those like her for many years.

Also, many real therapists also say they do cognitive therapy. You might go, and all you do is talk therapy, no worksheets, no homework, etc. So sure in the widest sense talking is cognitive.
But CT is a very specific and tested method.

So if a person wants real CT, like the tested Dr. Aaron Beck method, they need to get a referral with a licensed person who is registered with the Beck Institute, for example.

One could send an email to the guy who wrote that book and ask him...
(A Headache in the Pelvis, Stanford psychologist David Wise Ph.D)

1) where is the evidence that The Work is cognitive therapy? (there is none).
2) where is the evidence The Work is the best, or does anything to help people? (there is none)

David Wise would either ignore the questions, or if pushed, just say it was an personal opinion, which is completely useless, and he knows it.
He is just promoting his own book to people in pain, and has probably cut side deals with a bunch of people like Byron Katie.
David Wise knows what he wrote would flunk out of a paper written in a grade 8 science class.

But he knows the audience, people in pain who are desperate.
So it calls into question David Wise motivations.

For him to make openly false statements with no evidence provided for his claims?
That is why they used the word "opinion". Weasel words.
Where are the FACTS?
Where is the SCIENCE?

The Work by Byron Katie is NOT cognitive therapy. (its not listed in the CT textbooks, to start!)
The Work has zero scientific evidence of its efficacy. Nothing. Zip.
So think about it, The Work is not even LISTED in the cognitive therapy textbooks, and David Wise says its the BEST! That raises extreme red warning flags about this guy, one would be very wise to avoid DAvid Wise to start, and investigate what he is doing very carefully.
If he will make brazenly false statements like that, then what else will he do?

David Wise sounds like he selling pain-relief products on an infomercial.
David Wise PhD is in a direct personal financial conflict of interest when promoting Byron Katie.

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