ralpher:

In your eagerness to post defenses of Byron Katie on this thread you have gone a bit over the top.

Most people don't worry about being "randomly killed," "home invaded" and so on.

And Katie really isn't qualified to deal with phobias, fears, etc.

People concerned about such issues are better and more safely served by a helping professional, such as a licensed therapist, psychologist or psychiatrist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2008 11:48PM by rrmoderator.

And finally, my response to the flower incident: Byron Katie was possibly challenging the woman to say why she should react differently from the flower. That could have led to an interesting exchange, and then we'd know much more about what BK meant. Unfortunately, the woman on camera did not pick up the point, and so we can't really know what she meant by it. She might have meant to imply that people should become flowers, or that they should chop themselves up into fertilizer and feed trees with their own bodies, or that the woman sitting with her was a flower that was dreaming she was a human being; but without the immediate response of the person on camera, we can only conjecture. The Buddha--a flakey cultist?--once assembled a group of students, and held up a flower. After a while, he put it down again, and then said, 'that's all I have to say, but for those of you who need the words, I will now speak." So BK points to the flowers, and apparently the woman didn't need anything more than that and a few words. If only she had, and had asked about it, we would have more to work with.

I haven't read all the posts here, but I'll just respond to this quote above.

Ralpher, this is absolutely disingenuous. She was NOT challenging the woman to say why she should react differently from the flower. And you know it. And anyone else watching it would know it to, so who do you think you're kidding here?

I'm not interested in corresponding with someone who can't be honest. Time for me to move on.

That's fine with me dude, sayonara.

But take this with you: it is absolutely abusive, in any form of relationship, to insist that you know what is in someone's head better than they do. To insist that they aren't being honest, or know something that you know, without checking it out, asking them, is truly to abuse.

So who is being more abusive, Byron Katie on that tape, when she simply makes an assertion that is manifestly true (the flower is not worried about anything) or you, who insists you know what is in my head, what you can't know?

And I don't think people will miss the inability to respond to my post with evidence or arguments.

bye now

R

ralpher:

Some of your posts have not been approved because they are little more than flames.

See the rules.

Be honest, you are here on a mission, not so much for any meaningful exchange of ideas, but rather as a defender of Katie.

Can you think of anything wrong with Byron Katie?

vlinden:

Remember that the purpose of an Internet troll is often to subvert a thread, e.g. chase people off.

Don't allow ralpher to do that if you are interested in this topic.

No, I"m not going to stop posting, I'm just not going to continue engaging with Ralpher.

It's interesting how I'm not supposed to judge Byron Katie, I'm not supposed to judge him, I'm not supposed to feel we can "know" anything. Sometimes I wonder why the good lord dun give me a brain 'tween my ears!

Of course I was giving Ralpher the benefit of the doubt that he is actually smart enough to know that Byron Katie was NOT offering the Israeli woman a chance to think about why she should react differently from the flower. Smart, but disingenuous. If I"m wrong, then he's just not capable of accepting that Byron Katie was simply spewing nonsense. Or he doesn't recognize nonsense.

The great truths of life that humanity has uncovered can be found in so many places, without a lot of accompanying nonsense to confuse and mislead people. Why would I be interested in supporting a woman who says nonsensical things along with regurgitating well known ideas?

There's really very little new under the sun. But some people find ways of packaging themselves as the latest and greatest. Kudos to Katie for slapping a ribbon on her ass and selling herself to the ever-hungry masses so successfully. I'm just not buying, Ralpher. Sorry.

Our local Byron Katie promoter's comments about 'science' are totally false. One does wonder if that disinformation come right from Byron Katie herself?

But the only thing our Byron Katie promoter said about the world of the New Age Teachers that I agree with was this...

_________________________
1. Keep the money you have.
2. Take others' away.
_________________________

That pretty much sums up their core beliefs. Nice and simple.
People who operate like that, literally have something very close to that as their core beliefs, which is why they do what they do.

Its very clear that Byron Katie is running a type of New Age LGAT culty psycho-babble moneymaking machine.
[www.thework.com]

She even has a HOTLINE staffed by "Volunteers" to help sell you more Byron Katie courses when you are vulnerable and depressed.
[www.instituteforthework.com]

She also has a highly-organized and EXTREMELY aggressive Byron Katie propaganda campaign for her followers. Have a look at it below, its almost unbelievable what she is doing to people.



----WARNING: Byron Katie Internet Viral Marketing Alert! --------------

"Chats/Forums/Discussion Boards: If you participate in online chat groups and discussion boards where you share your personal experiences of life, you may want to write about how The Work has made a difference in your life and let people know about our site and Katie's products so they can find out for themselves if The Work would be helpful to them. People typically enjoy hearing about the things you find useful in your life."

[www.thework.com]

_______(excerpt for education and analysis)_________________________
Many of you have told us how much The Work has helped you and have asked how you can help The Work. We love that you'd like to share The Work with others, so we have compiled a list of ideas for you. We trust that you will find your own helpful and creative ways to share The Work with as many people as possible that feel right to you - and thank you for that.

Financial donations: One of the most direct ways to help keep The Work moving is to make a financial contribution to The Work Foundation. Make a secure online donation right now via our online store.

If you would like to send a check, please mail it to:
The Work Foundation
XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX

Volunteer your services: We often need volunteers to assist at events with Katie throughout the world.

Sharing The Work with others: One of the most effective ways to spread the word is to share The Work with others in as many creative ways as possible. Here are some of the possibilities that we came up with:

Work Events: In communities around the world people are hosting local Inquiry Circles and other Work events. Please visit the Institute for the Work Community Center and check the "Bulletins" on the Discussion Forums page to view upcoming Work related events in your area.

Public Access TV Stations: Most communities have local public access channels where community members can suggest programming ideas. You could supply the station with Katie's DVDs or videos to put on their program schedule. Look in your local phone book or on the web to find the contact information for your local public access TV station.

Local Radio: Many communities also have public radio stations that often air community-interest programs. You could offer your favorite Katie CDs for on-air play during a variety of different programs (e.g. health and wellness, spirituality, peace, self-help, parenting, etc.).

Book Reviews: We invite you to write reviews for Loving What Is and I Need Your Love - Is That True? on sites like Amazon.com and other online book review sites.

Libraries and Bookstores: You can request that your local library and bookstores carry Loving What Is and I Need Your Love - Is That True? and ask whether they would like to list them on their recommended reading lists.

Articles and Interviews: Sharing your personal stories with The Work in the form of articles and interviews is a nice way to share The Work with others. Your experience with The Work is often what interests people the most. If you have used The Work to find freedom from issues like depression, anger, death, fear, body image concerns, sexuality, etc., you may want to write an article and offer it for publication in local and national magazines and journals. You may also want to contact the producers of national TV and radio programs (like The Oprah Winfrey Show) to tell them about The Work in your life and see if they would be interested in having Katie on their program.

Classes/Courses: If you are an educator, consider adding Loving What Is and/or I Need Your Love - Is That True? to your list of required reading texts. Loving What Is and I Need Your Love - Is That True? may be especially of interest in courses that deal with mediation, conflict resolution, human development, brain research, mind-body healing, psychology, social work, mental health, peace and consciousness studies, addiction and recovery courses and so much more.

Web Links: If you have your own web site, consider linking to www.thework.com.

Blogs: Do you write your own blog? If so, you may consider sharing your experience with The Work with your readers and provide a link to www.thework.com.

Chats/Forums/Discussion Boards: If you participate in online chat groups and discussion boards where you share your personal experiences of life, you may want to write about how The Work has made a difference in your life and let people know about our site and Katie's products so they can find out for themselves if The Work would be helpful to them. People typically enjoy hearing about the things you find useful in your life.

Distribute Flyers: Often you can find flyers for events with Katie at our Events Calendar page (look for the little Flyer icon for each event), here. Feel free to print them out, make copies and distribute them within your community at coffee shops, yoga parlors, bookstores, community centers, etc.

Give Away the Little Book: In our store you can purchase copies of "the little book" - a small 40-page book that walks the reader through The Work. This is a great intro to The Work and is highly affordable to you and is free to nonprofit organizations. We also have an attractive little book stand for those of you who wish to spread The Work at your office space or place of worship.

Give Away CD Samplers: In our store you can purchase copies of two different sampler CDs. Some prefer to hear Katie doing The Work "live" with people and this has proven to be a great way to share The Work with others.

Give a Gift: In our store we have a large variety of products that offer The Work in many forms, including Katie's books, CDs, DVDs, videos, journals, gift items and, of course, The Parlor.

The Parlor: Giving a gift subscription to The Parlor is a great way for people to understand The Work more deeply and ask Katie any question that comes to them. Each month Katie personally writes The Parlor (typically a 30-40 page document), answering reader's questions, Working letters, and providing insight into her world. Rich with content and little surprises, The Parlor is a great way to join the The Work family.

Send Someone to a Katie Event: Attending an event with Katie is a very powerful, life-altering experience for many. Giving someone the opportunity to attend an event with Katie, whether it is a simple one-day public event, a weekend intensive or the full 9-day School for The Work, is an amazing way to share the power of The Work with someone you love. To view upcoming events with Katie, check the Events Calendar >>
If you have any other ideas that you'd like to see added to this list, please email info@thework.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2008 03:10AM by The Anticult.

Whoa boy! I just read this one from Ralpher:

Since ideas can't hurt people, all of these gurus are well within their rights to sell their stuff. It's a business to them, in addition to being a nice way to spend their time, and downright helpful a lot of the time to some of the people.

Okay, take one BIG mo'foing step back right now, Ralpher, I think we found the error muy grande in your thought process.

Ideas can't hurt people? Did you just say that? Not only can they hurt, they do hurt, ever second of every day, because ideas are guiding our inner and outer lives. Ideas alone can cause someone to lose their mind. Ideas alone can cause suffering and confusion, the end of relationships, the destruction of lives. Ideas in action can cause murder and mayhem and irrevocable loss.

You see, the difference between people like you, and everyone else on this board posting against cults, LGATs, New Age Gurus, etc, is that we have a strong allegiance to truth, because we understand what hell realms bad ideas can spawn. We don't "try it on for size" and then take it off if it "doesn't fit." All that means is paying money to hear someone's bad ideas, getting them richer and you poorer for your wasted time and effort, and any resulting confusion or bad choices you may make.

I never said Tolle or Katie are "cults" and they don't have to be, to be dangerous or to be scam artists. The purpose of this board -- which may be one of the most importance websites in existence -- is to help shed light into the darkness that many people are profitting from, or even helping to create.

And let me explain that last concept. When you have New Age gurus telling people they can live in some perpetual state of grace, of light, it immediately creates the idea that they are in darkness. Religion does the same thing. Tell people they are in darkness, and they need light, and then offer to show them the way. In exchange ask for devotion, fealty, or $59.99 shipping included.

And you know what, it isn't true. There is only one core teaching since the beginning of our wisdom that everyone is seeking: We are ALL ONE.

But the One has divided, and in our division we live, we love, and we suffer. And that is life. When we die perhaps we'll return to the One, but for now we cannot separate ourselves from our minds, our egos, our rationality, and attempting to do so causes more hurt than good. People can even go mad trying. This is not healing, it's delusion.

Corboy,

Your description of the cell phones going off on the dead victims of the Israeli bomb attack gave me chills all over. God, what a horrible image. I have many relatives in Israel, one beautiful young cousin who almost lost his eye recently to shrapnel. He's a soldier.

There is another thread somewhere that talks about the "power of negative thinking" and people interested in Byron Katie should read it. I think it was referring to an article in a magazine that was calling for Oprah to stop pushing Tolle . . . all about how the most important people in our society spend most of their time considering "worst case scenarios" to make sure that everything functions. Like hospitals, airlines, nuclear reactors . .

Rabidly New Age people are not usually employed in these types of industries.

I think your point about staying alert in oder to help others is also important. How many New Agers zone out to spiritual trance music on their iPods while riding on the trains? Not much use for paying attention. Imagine getting mugged on the subway and your only witness is some New Ager? The cops later ask for a description and she says, "Well, he was a Light Being who hadn't been properly trained to be present to transformation . . . ."

They'd probably lock her up too.

By the way, all my comments are being generated from a life spent in large part surrounded by New Age culture and conspiracy culture. I KNOW of what I speak, believe you me . . .

Here's the deal with Byron Katie. She is a businesswoman and entrepreneur, in partnership with the hubby co-writer. She is a very good salesperson, and manipulative persuader.

She claims to have be suicidal for years, and then one day attained Enlightenment by her Magic Technique. that's her STORY.

Her technique is exactly the false ideas being thrown around in this thread, based on the question...IS IT TRUE?
She then perverts Epistemology with a type of Thought-Stopping-Reversal, somewhat akin to Silva Mind Control, it appears. Its also a type of perversion of some ideas that were popular at the time, called Self-Talk.
Her goal is to to teach people to stop believing their thoughts. Again, a perversion of Zen Buddhism.
She claims this technique of her is the secret to happiness.
So she threw together a grab-bag of ideas from the early 1980's, and said it cured her.

I don't believe she was as depressed as she says, that is a Sales Technique called making the Big Claim. The bottom line is she was probably a bit depressed in the 1970's, started reading flakey New Age self-help books. One day she did get ENLIGHTENED.

She thought, man, I can write this stuff too! Why work my fingers to the bone, when I can get into the New Age Guru scene? Books, tapes, speeches, coaching....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Huge Mark-up!
Massive Profits!
Flakey Competition!

She then started learning all of the personal Guru culty techniques, even having her students live with her. And she just built it up into a rather large organization, which makes a ton of money, exploiting human unhappiness and misery.

Same old story, same old song and dance...