Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Playing Therapist re Incest
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: March 10, 2008 06:39AM
I'm not sure how much I can post re this, as far as "fair use" goes. From what I understand about fair use, it should be okay to post some brief quotes, so I'll do that.Quote
vlinden
I don't have any BK materials, thank god, but I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to post exact text where BK talks about instances of sexual or physical abuse.
If someone would post this, I would be happy to send it to the legitimate organizations that deal with these issues, with a letter asking them to review the material and consider making a public statement about it.
The following excerpts are from Byron Katie's book Loving What Is, from a section called "Mom Didn't Stop the Incest":
In reality, the pain we feel about a past event is created in the present, whatever our past pain might have been. Inquiry looks at this present pain. Even though I lead Diane back to the scene where the event took place, and she answers the questions as if she were in that fearful time, she never leaves the perfect safety of the present. (p. 249)
...when you discover your own part in the event, however small - your innocent compliance with the act, for the sake of love or in order to escape worse harm - let yourself feel the power of owning that part, and feel how painful it is to deny it. Then take the time to forgive yourself for any pain you've inflicted on yourself. The identity that's left after that may not feel like the identity of a victim at all. (p. 250)
[Katie says this to incest survivor "Diane"]: This is not about making a right decision or a wrong decision. The abuse continued. How do you react when you believe the thought that you'll be beaten or sent away? Night after night, he came into your room when your mother went to school. Give me a reason to keep this story that is not stressful inside you, or rape-making. (p. 255)
Re: Byron Katie(the Work) YouTube Venice Beach, Home of The Whopper
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: March 10, 2008 06:45AM
How about this Whopper from the Byron Katie Venice Beach YouTube video?Quote
The Anticult
by the way, did anyone see the Byron Katie video on YouTube down at Venice Beach? Part 1, the one with her and many of those attending The School For The Work?
[snip]
But Byron Katie tells some bald-faced Whoppers in that video...BK also stands for Burger King, and both BK's can sell some real "Whoppers". Home Of The Whopper, indeed...
"Defense is the first act of war."
Re: Byron Katie(the Work) YouTube Venice Beach, Home of The Whopper
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 10, 2008 07:54AM
Yes, its a good idea to get the exact text of what she says about sexual and physical abuse, and trauma, and other psychological issues.
Of course books are run through the publishers and scrubbed as clean as possible...you might just find mainly very carefully parsed language.
It might be more revealing to find some video, or online postings, or pamphlets, etc.
But its an amazing Miracle...Byron Katie says she has had "no thoughts" since 1986, or whenever, yet she is able to speak so carefully, to parse her words so carefully about the Holocaust, and 911, sexual abuse, etc. How can a person parse their words like a lawyer, without Thought?
Its must be a Miracle, or something...
Its also amazing that these Post-Yuppies, like in The Secret, or Byron Katie, or Abraham-Hicks , all feel the need to comment on the Holocaust.
That would be another good project, to get Byron Katies exact words about the Holocaust from the book "A Thousand Names for Joy, and anywhere else, and send that to the relevant people as well.
I recall her saying on the CD that ultimately the Holocaust, everything else is "good", since there is no such thing as good or evil, everything that happens is God's will and is good, but there is no God and there is no such thing a good, etc. (circular)
Lets get the text for that too, to get her exact words. One can be sure they are parsed very carefully.
Victor Frankl spoke about the Holocaust, and his point was that some humans can find meaning in suffering. But that is not at all the same thing as there is no such thing as evil or good, and everything that happens to people they brought on themselves, etc.
Of course books are run through the publishers and scrubbed as clean as possible...you might just find mainly very carefully parsed language.
It might be more revealing to find some video, or online postings, or pamphlets, etc.
But its an amazing Miracle...Byron Katie says she has had "no thoughts" since 1986, or whenever, yet she is able to speak so carefully, to parse her words so carefully about the Holocaust, and 911, sexual abuse, etc. How can a person parse their words like a lawyer, without Thought?
Its must be a Miracle, or something...
Its also amazing that these Post-Yuppies, like in The Secret, or Byron Katie, or Abraham-Hicks , all feel the need to comment on the Holocaust.
That would be another good project, to get Byron Katies exact words about the Holocaust from the book "A Thousand Names for Joy, and anywhere else, and send that to the relevant people as well.
I recall her saying on the CD that ultimately the Holocaust, everything else is "good", since there is no such thing as good or evil, everything that happens is God's will and is good, but there is no God and there is no such thing a good, etc. (circular)
Lets get the text for that too, to get her exact words. One can be sure they are parsed very carefully.
Victor Frankl spoke about the Holocaust, and his point was that some humans can find meaning in suffering. But that is not at all the same thing as there is no such thing as evil or good, and everything that happens to people they brought on themselves, etc.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: March 10, 2008 08:10AM
This forum seemed to be down for most of the weekend. You're getting through now!Quote
chick
Three posts and none have shown up yet? Am Ibeing impatient?
chick
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) covert, conversational hypnosis and NLP
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 10, 2008 08:21AM
Looks like we have a new poster by the name of "chick". Welcome.
[forum.culteducation.com]
New posters are Moderated for awhile, and that's why there is a delay, also the website was down for a few days for some reason.
So from time to time we should check back in the thread for new posts that were held in moderation...
That being said, no worries chick, you can tell it like it is here.
No one is going to try to use the Byron Katie Turnaround on you, to try and make you wrong for asking questions.
From what you said so far, you are right on the money. Many of the Byron Katie senior people are using all sorts of techniques from NLP, and also a type of abuse of Ericksonian conversational waking hypnosis, among many other things.
That is a very serious problem with Byron Katie, and her senior people. Complete lack of professional ethics. (they don't believe Ethics even exist!). A proper hypnotherapist is licensed, and CAREFULLY with total informed CONSENT works with you on what YOU want to work with.
They are also trained to deal with and serious issues that might arise,and have in place a supprt sytem to deal with that.
Byron Katie, and her most trained people do the opposite. They are usually not licensed at all, and have no training or license in dealing with psychological issues, serious or not. They do things to people without their informed consent, or even awareness, and do things to you that you have NOT chosen, and are not even aware of, until its too late.
This all needs to continue to be investigated, by regular people and by professionals, and brought out into the open. Hopefully more former Byron Katie students will continue to come forward and post what happened to them here, or anywhere else, so other people can begin to learn what they might be in for at the hands of Byron Katie, and her senior facilitators.
The public has a right to know what is being done TO them without their AWARENESS or informed consent.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2008 08:28AM by The Anticult.
[forum.culteducation.com]
New posters are Moderated for awhile, and that's why there is a delay, also the website was down for a few days for some reason.
So from time to time we should check back in the thread for new posts that were held in moderation...
That being said, no worries chick, you can tell it like it is here.
No one is going to try to use the Byron Katie Turnaround on you, to try and make you wrong for asking questions.
From what you said so far, you are right on the money. Many of the Byron Katie senior people are using all sorts of techniques from NLP, and also a type of abuse of Ericksonian conversational waking hypnosis, among many other things.
That is a very serious problem with Byron Katie, and her senior people. Complete lack of professional ethics. (they don't believe Ethics even exist!). A proper hypnotherapist is licensed, and CAREFULLY with total informed CONSENT works with you on what YOU want to work with.
They are also trained to deal with and serious issues that might arise,and have in place a supprt sytem to deal with that.
Byron Katie, and her most trained people do the opposite. They are usually not licensed at all, and have no training or license in dealing with psychological issues, serious or not. They do things to people without their informed consent, or even awareness, and do things to you that you have NOT chosen, and are not even aware of, until its too late.
This all needs to continue to be investigated, by regular people and by professionals, and brought out into the open. Hopefully more former Byron Katie students will continue to come forward and post what happened to them here, or anywhere else, so other people can begin to learn what they might be in for at the hands of Byron Katie, and her senior facilitators.
The public has a right to know what is being done TO them without their AWARENESS or informed consent.
Quote
chick
Hi checking in from the UK. A small portion of my story....
I have tried reading all that was written on this thread and unfortunately it leaves me cold with worry with regards to what I have gone through in the last year, with a starting point with BK and the work
Last year I undertook a series of six sessions, around a life coach. As part of it BK was touched on and we did the work and to be honest I could not get my head around it and saw that I was always going to be in the wrong because if you had issues that were negative about others then it seem to resound back onto you somehow.
In short if you judge others you judge yourself. That was how I saw it ultimately and was put through the double bind procedure, thus in session five I was put out. yes...!! put out. I still do not know what I was asked or what was done to me during that time loss? Though I was told that if I did not walk around this I would keep walking and another bit of info that came my way was about money
It seems a bit of a cliche to be honest and have heard of some others being abused in this way.
So a year has passed, but a very eventful one, I spent hours on the net trying to work out what this woman had done to me. It was NLP based and she said she was using NLP techniques on me, but did not disclose what they were. I tried to engage her into small talk and started to read about NLP. and it seemed ok or so I thought. I worked out myself that Ericksonion conversational hypnois was being used this might be what put me out? Or something else....
[..]
chick
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2008 08:28AM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
al3r
()
Date: March 10, 2008 01:12PM
I am currently reading Loving What Is by Byron Katie.
I thought the first part of the book was pretty boring and basic, but it's getting better the more I read. So far, I did like one thing she said very much. It was. IF you put your hand in a fire, does anyone have to tell you to move it?
We are capable to move away from the flame and into the Truth and Light without any outside force telling us- ie, a guru, or a organized religion, or a political party. I liked that. As the bible teaches that the Holy Spirit INSIDE us guides us, not somebody preaching at us.
When we all stop expecting organized religion to give us the answers as to what the bible means and as the holy spirit for ourselves, I believe only then can we stop all this nonsense about only one church being the "true" church. Peace out.
I thought the first part of the book was pretty boring and basic, but it's getting better the more I read. So far, I did like one thing she said very much. It was. IF you put your hand in a fire, does anyone have to tell you to move it?
We are capable to move away from the flame and into the Truth and Light without any outside force telling us- ie, a guru, or a organized religion, or a political party. I liked that. As the bible teaches that the Holy Spirit INSIDE us guides us, not somebody preaching at us.
When we all stop expecting organized religion to give us the answers as to what the bible means and as the holy spirit for ourselves, I believe only then can we stop all this nonsense about only one church being the "true" church. Peace out.
Byron Katie(the Work) the Steven Sashen Anti-Guru-Blog $100 challenge!
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 10, 2008 01:33PM
Steven Sashen was questioned a bit on the Byron Katie affair so far, so lets give the guy a nice thumbs-up when he makes a good blog posting at the Anti-Guru Blog.
"Develop a New Habit? Give me 21 days, and I’ll give you… three weeks"
[sashen.com]
And he even offers a $100 reward! Good stuff!
Steven Sashen is talking some good stuff about fish and flies, the Emoto water crystals scam, and Quantum Physics...and he concludes the blog with "Got any others?"
Yeah I do actually...How about changing a few words in The Steven Sashen $100 Challenge from the blog...
"If someone can give me a respected, published scientific study (that can’t be effortlessly debunked because of bad or no control groups, too small a sample size, or other obviously stupid study design... {like it being conducted by the company who makes millions from it, or their friends-associates! -editor}
...that demonstrates the proof of the "Byron Katie The Work" technology, I’ll give you $100!"
Why not? See below, Byron Katie International, and his own blog make a lot of very serious claims...
"Eliminate stress: Live without anxiety or fear"
"Eliminate depression: See perfection in situations that were once debilitating"
Eliminating Stress and Eliminating Depression is worth more than $100. Maybe $100 Billion.
But this is 100% serious.
Where is the proof, as he reasonably defines it himself? All we need are those studies measuring effects on stress and depression, that have been published in peer-reviewed journals
...like the "325 studies involving 465 specific comparisons" for Cognitive Therapy at the Beck Institute.
[www.beckinstitute.org]
(search their website for OUTCOME RESEARCH, their links never work).
Could someone let Steven Sashen know about him posting this new $100 Challenge on his blog, or responding to it here? Someone could post a link there to give him a heads up?
Does it not seem logical, fair, and completely reasonable?
_________________________________________________
[www.sashen.com]
"Experience the deceptively simple, yet infinitely profound, self-inquiry process known as The Work of Byron Katie.
Identify and break through limiting beliefs.
Meet your most persistent fears with understanding.
Free yourself from stress, resentment and unhappiness.
Unravel problems with health, relationships, work, money, and anything else that brings you pain.
In this profound weekend you'll explore exercises developed for and taught at Byron Katie's 10-day School for The Work, deepen the effect of the 4 Questions in your life, and rest in the wordless answer to "Who would you be without your story?
In addition, you'll explore "The Work in Movement" and "Quantum Work" (where, instead of you investigating your problems, your problems investigate you!). People who have done Quantum Work have said, "The Work is like turning on a light in a dark room... Quantum Work is like turning on floodlights!" and "I think this is the only way people should do The Work."
___________________________________________________________
(CLAIMS for The Work from the official Byron Katie website as of March 4, 2008)
What is The Work?
The Work is a simple yet powerful process of inquiry that teaches you to identify and question the stressful thoughts that cause all the suffering in the world. It's a way to understand what's hurting you, a way to end all your stress and suffering.
People who do The Work faithfully report life-changing results.
Eliminate stress: Live without anxiety or fear
Improve relationships: Have a new sense of connection and intimacy with your husband or wife, your parents, your children, and with yourself
Reduce anger: Get angry less often and less intensely, and eventually not at all
Eliminate depression: See perfection in situations that were once debilitating
Clarity: Act more intelligently and effectively
Energy: Experience a new sense of vigor and well-being
Peace: Learn how to love what is, and find lasting inner peace
_____________________________________________________________
"Develop a New Habit? Give me 21 days, and I’ll give you… three weeks"
[sashen.com]
And he even offers a $100 reward! Good stuff!
Steven Sashen is talking some good stuff about fish and flies, the Emoto water crystals scam, and Quantum Physics...and he concludes the blog with "Got any others?"
Yeah I do actually...How about changing a few words in The Steven Sashen $100 Challenge from the blog...
"If someone can give me a respected, published scientific study (that can’t be effortlessly debunked because of bad or no control groups, too small a sample size, or other obviously stupid study design... {like it being conducted by the company who makes millions from it, or their friends-associates! -editor}
...that demonstrates the proof of the "Byron Katie The Work" technology, I’ll give you $100!"
Why not? See below, Byron Katie International, and his own blog make a lot of very serious claims...
"Eliminate stress: Live without anxiety or fear"
"Eliminate depression: See perfection in situations that were once debilitating"
Eliminating Stress and Eliminating Depression is worth more than $100. Maybe $100 Billion.
But this is 100% serious.
Where is the proof, as he reasonably defines it himself? All we need are those studies measuring effects on stress and depression, that have been published in peer-reviewed journals
...like the "325 studies involving 465 specific comparisons" for Cognitive Therapy at the Beck Institute.
[www.beckinstitute.org]
(search their website for OUTCOME RESEARCH, their links never work).
Could someone let Steven Sashen know about him posting this new $100 Challenge on his blog, or responding to it here? Someone could post a link there to give him a heads up?
Does it not seem logical, fair, and completely reasonable?
_________________________________________________
[www.sashen.com]
"Experience the deceptively simple, yet infinitely profound, self-inquiry process known as The Work of Byron Katie.
Identify and break through limiting beliefs.
Meet your most persistent fears with understanding.
Free yourself from stress, resentment and unhappiness.
Unravel problems with health, relationships, work, money, and anything else that brings you pain.
In this profound weekend you'll explore exercises developed for and taught at Byron Katie's 10-day School for The Work, deepen the effect of the 4 Questions in your life, and rest in the wordless answer to "Who would you be without your story?
In addition, you'll explore "The Work in Movement" and "Quantum Work" (where, instead of you investigating your problems, your problems investigate you!). People who have done Quantum Work have said, "The Work is like turning on a light in a dark room... Quantum Work is like turning on floodlights!" and "I think this is the only way people should do The Work."
___________________________________________________________
(CLAIMS for The Work from the official Byron Katie website as of March 4, 2008)
What is The Work?
The Work is a simple yet powerful process of inquiry that teaches you to identify and question the stressful thoughts that cause all the suffering in the world. It's a way to understand what's hurting you, a way to end all your stress and suffering.
People who do The Work faithfully report life-changing results.
Eliminate stress: Live without anxiety or fear
Improve relationships: Have a new sense of connection and intimacy with your husband or wife, your parents, your children, and with yourself
Reduce anger: Get angry less often and less intensely, and eventually not at all
Eliminate depression: See perfection in situations that were once debilitating
Clarity: Act more intelligently and effectively
Energy: Experience a new sense of vigor and well-being
Peace: Learn how to love what is, and find lasting inner peace
_____________________________________________________________
its not all negation...there is plenty of Legit good stuff out there..
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 10, 2008 04:24PM
I just want to drop one small Knowledge-Bomb into this to balance things out a bit. It seems that everything about this is extremely negative, and it is, its important to look at the facts.
BUT, negation won't get us anywhere by itself. There are countless wonderful things to explore, that are legit.
For example, saw a documentary the other week about some contemporary artists...that is asking the same questions about "reality' but doing so in an intelligent way, and its FREE to think, you don't need an LGAT to let some crackpot wreck your mind, go to a current art show and expand your mind for $5, and that will be 1000x more enlightening.
There are real psychologists out there (like Martin Seligman), real philosophers and Thinkers.
Steven Pinker has a great new book out called "The Stuff of Thought", wonderful stuff. So there is lots of great stuff out there, that is wonderful and legit, and that is what leads to happiness and meaning.
No one needs to get tricked and trapped into Byron Katies nihilism, amorality, false-ideas, deception, manipulation and antiscience. Its deadly stuff...its a type of violent mind-destruction to create passivity and depression in the subjects...
Its VERY important to balance out and detox the BK mind-poison, every 30 minutes spent analyzing Byron Katie, gets off-set 2:1 by exposure to some high-quality, excellent food for the mind and soul, to grow one's Knowledge and ones character.
BUT, negation won't get us anywhere by itself. There are countless wonderful things to explore, that are legit.
For example, saw a documentary the other week about some contemporary artists...that is asking the same questions about "reality' but doing so in an intelligent way, and its FREE to think, you don't need an LGAT to let some crackpot wreck your mind, go to a current art show and expand your mind for $5, and that will be 1000x more enlightening.
There are real psychologists out there (like Martin Seligman), real philosophers and Thinkers.
Steven Pinker has a great new book out called "The Stuff of Thought", wonderful stuff. So there is lots of great stuff out there, that is wonderful and legit, and that is what leads to happiness and meaning.
No one needs to get tricked and trapped into Byron Katies nihilism, amorality, false-ideas, deception, manipulation and antiscience. Its deadly stuff...its a type of violent mind-destruction to create passivity and depression in the subjects...
Its VERY important to balance out and detox the BK mind-poison, every 30 minutes spent analyzing Byron Katie, gets off-set 2:1 by exposure to some high-quality, excellent food for the mind and soul, to grow one's Knowledge and ones character.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
chick
()
Date: March 10, 2008 08:52PM
It seems to me that the BK method is related to the Sedona Method which is a way to teach people how to disassociate.
chick
chick
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: March 10, 2008 08:57PM
al3r:
Please don't preach your religious beliefs.
This is against the rules you agreed to before posting on this message board.
Please don't preach your religious beliefs.
This is against the rules you agreed to before posting on this message board.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.