Quote
The Shadow
whoooo, you really had me going there for a minute!!!!!! -- LOL --

but yeah, i see what you mean now, and that makes sense; yes, perhaps Ex-Bk people could speak with each other with one moderator who is trained in working with ex-cult members...i think you make a good point here.

Those BK CD's are just loaded with hundreds of strings of nonsensical phrases, that fold back on themselves like that.
It would be great to get that text from the Byron Katie covert hypnosis book...
"A THOUSAND NAMES FOR JOY"..(bait & switch)...and to get that text to a professional linguist,and a professional hypnotist, and let them comment.
That would be a good article for a paper.

But Ex-BK people do need to have a place to talk...there are lots of Ex-groups out there...Ex-Baba, Ex-Scientology...but just imagine the trolling in groups like that...they must have a way to deal with it. Otherwise it could make it even worse, and just stay stuck in limbo for months and years...

Now, the next project is to figure out WHY does Byron Katie install such negative and destructive Beliefs in her hypnotic subjects?
Its clear HOW she does it, but why?
That is very rare for these types of hypnotists...

Is it because Byron Katie herself suffers from some type of serious disturbance?

Or is it simply marketing, to find those in serious PAIN, and to use that as leverage? To attract people with distorted negative beliefs?

Or is it to build a pathological dependence in her subjects to Byron Katie?

Or does Byron Katie just get off on the Power of being worshipped, as she is?

Is Byron Katie uneducated and deluded enough to actually believe installing more negative beliefs is good?

Masochism, or sadism?



I don't think that has been answered yet.
They HOW is easy, its in the text and method...

But the WHY? Other than the obvious...
She has to know that installing "Love Is A Murderer" types of extremely negative core beliefs are going to wreck people's lives...everyone knows that... right?
Do they?

The Byron Katie (The Work) links are crawling with hypnotherapists, hypnotherapy, hypnosis, covert hypnosis...

[www.google.com]



Byron Katie certified facilitator is a Hypnotist:
_____________________________________________
Diane Bradshaw
Arizona, USA
English
"My journey as a trainer began in the late 80's with a hunger to learn everything I could about self awareness and healing. For many years to follow, I had a very active hypnosis business and school...
...Many have considered me a pioneering innovator in the hypnosis profession with a unique approach to inner child work. I have extensive experience in all aspects of hypnosis from behavioral change to deep core issues....
When appropriate, I creatively interlaces the four questions of the Work of Byron Katie and hypnosis with simplicity and ease."
www.dianebradshaw.com/_wsn/page2.html
(The Work of Byron Katie as facilitated by Clarity Coaching Institute.)

_________________________________________
Sagar Simon MS Counseling
Certified in the work of Byron Katie
Registered Hypnotherapist

" Sagar is a Certified facilitator of "The Work" of Byron Katie. He has two decades of experience in leading groups, mediations and hypnosis workshops. He has staffed many courses and workshops given by Byron Katie."
[www.people-solutions.org]
____________________________________________________

[www.feelgoodgirl.com]
"Stephanie Brail, and I am a well-being coach, healer, and hypnotherapist."

An Introduction to The Work of Byron Katie by Stephanie Brail
[www.feelgoodgirl.com]
____________________________________

[www.soundspositive.com]
"The soothing voice you hear belongs to Lysette Offley, founder of Sounds Positive and Henley Hypnotherapy...Lysette has attended many Landmark Corporation courses including extensive courses on Relationships, Intimacy and Effectiveness and Tony Robbins Courses...
She has also trained with... Byron Katie..."
_______________________________________



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2008 06:54PM by The Anticult.

Continuing Education Module

"But Ex-BK people do need to have a place to talk...there are lots of Ex-groups out there...Ex-Baba, Ex-Scientology...but just imagine the trolling in groups like that...they must have a way to deal with it. Otherwise it could make it even worse, and just stay stuck in limbo for months and years..."

It is possible that the more people have been shamed, and the more they have been conditioned to feel loyal and even protective of whoever or whatever has instilled the shame...and then the harder it would be for survivors
to muster the self agency needed to create a healing community.

For self agency is often impaired by abuse, as is ability to trust one's own perceptions as well as ability to trust others. All of these are needed to create a
healing community.

That such communities are often harassed by loyalists who employ shaming language makes it doubly difficult and if such trolling goes unchecked can turn
what was once a sanctuary into yet another traumatizing situation--someone has
termed this 'sanctuary trauma.'

The following information might provide some useful tools for those seeking to heal...or at least to understand.

Psychoanalyst Stanley Rosenman writes about trauma in the context of violent assault. But our members may find this of interest:

All this is quoted from Stanley Rosenman's paper 'Assaultive Projective Identification and the Plundering of the Victim's Identity

Journal of the American Academy of Psychoanalysis and Dynamic Psychiatry, Volume 31(3) pages 521-40, 2003

"Since the ego's executive functioning is guided by the identity structure, it suffers doubly from cognitive dedifferentiation that follows abuse. Memory dysfunction, for instance is set off by the catastrophe; memories become more ambiguous and harder to retrieve. This additionally disrupts identity and the victim is unable to recall vital experiences, in turn a depleted identity impovrishes memory even more."

'Cognitive backsliding is also evident in the learning problems that beset the ill treated child. When dulled, a victim is less able to discern or contest the oppressors demands. ....Good internal figures (such as prior faith in God, nurturing memories of good people in one's pre-assault life-Corboy.) ..good internal figures are crushed by the calamity....psychic and body ego boundaries
are fissured layhing out routes for ingress by the delegated representation of the oppressor.

At the same time the ongoing catastrophe is exhausting: there is less energy available to the victim for resistance and healing.'

Rosenman, pages 530-531. (It should be noted that Dr. Rosenman speaks only of victims of violent assault. He did not examine certain kinds of socially engineered settings (LGATs) in which people become exhausted and are led to question and then dismantle their identities--C)

Dr Rosenman listed key aims of assault. In passing he mentioned a matter that is worth our close scrutiny:

'To elicit pity and nurture from the victim, thereby furtively parenting him (the assailant)...(to aim a blow) that falls outside the comprehension of the victim in order that he lack the cognitive structure to detoxify the deed.'

Rosenman then gives us this:

"Sometimes the ready use of the term "identification with the aggressor" may incorrectly suggest that a given victim is an active, introjecting agent (eg is actually consenting C) in this maneuver, whereas in reality, he unhappily undergoes being routed, mesmerized, and taken over by an alien force.'

"Once the images of the predator have a foothold within the subjects core identity, they campaign to confiscate more of the subject's psyche. "

(Rosenman page 526)

Then the harder it would be to associate in an EX group dedicated to open discussion and emancipatory questioning of what has harmed them.

Repeat: If people have been subliminally conditioned to feel protective, even that they have the responsiblity of nurturing and parenting the person or the process that has instilled shame and self distrust, the harder it will be to question that or associate with others who want to question it.

And if alumni of such a process have been pre-formatted by earlier abusive parenting, they would have a doubly difficult time breaking the unspoken
and unconscious assumption that they must protect and actually parent who or whatever has breached their boundaries and disrupted self concept and executive ego functioning.

Note: It is considered a potential pitfall in psychotherapy for a counselor to disclose information about illness or personal hardship to clients, precisely because this would hold open the danger of triggering clients to parent the therapist. This would cause the clients to re-enact the roles that have kept them trapped and which they are trying, through therapy to get free from--not further entrenched.

Proper procedure is for anyone in the healing profession to have a consultancy group of fellow professionals, share all information and emotional worries with them, precisely so as not to leak any of this to clients. And a well trained therapist will have contingency plan in event of accident and illness so that clients can be referred to other care providers---not find themselves abandoned.

In cases where a therapist is incapacited by accident or finds that he or she must
undergo treatment for potentially dangerous illnesses, this is a matter that must be handled with the utmost care. Discussion with a consultancy group is essential if something like this comes up.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2008 10:05PM by corboy.

Hi checking in from the UK. A small portion of my story....

I have tried reading all that was written on this thread and unfortunately it leaves me cold with worry with regards to what I have gone through in the last year, with a starting point with BK and the work

Last year I undertook a series of six sessions, around a life coach. As part of it BK was touched on and we did the work and to be honest I could not get my head around it and saw that I was always going to be in the wrong because if you had issues that were negative about others then it seem to resound back onto you somehow.

In short if you judge others you judge yourself. That was how I saw it ultimately and was put through the double bind procedure, thus in session five I was put out. yes...!! put out. I still do not know what I was asked or what was done to me during that time loss? Though I was told that if I did not walk around this I would keep walking and another bit of info that came my way was about money

It seems a bit of a cliche to be honest and have heard of some others being abused in this way.

So a year has passed, but a very eventful one, I spent hours on the net trying to work out what this woman had done to me. It was NLP based and she said she was using NLP techniques on me, but did not disclose what they were. I tried to engage her into small talk and started to read about NLP. and it seemed ok or so I thought. I worked out myself that Ericksonion conversational hypnois was being used this might be what put me out? Or something else....

Anyway here I am today with having discovered a whole heap of stuff that I did not know existed and that included the fact that I have been threatened, intimidated, mocked and followed around after this short course with this woman who said she was independant.

I have since worked out that I have been what one would call a target since 1984 and that I have evidence of property damage and covert and overt stalking. An individual then many. So in short I am being fair gamed or and dead agented. By whom? She was not independant at all. All of this emerged as I tried to come to terms of what had happened and I think this is what she meant by walking around it.

I then find out that other family members have had the same treatment but not as extreme as mine.

I discovered that The final book I was given to read was about the New Earth, by E Tolle and was then told to read it again when I went to the doctors, so a rather eventful begining. The doctor was someone new to me and he repeated verbatim what the coach had said. Now I felt like something was really going on. I dont believe in coincidences like that. During that consultation I saw the doc take two text messages and at the time I was suspiscious of that, he also asked for my permission to be videoed?

After this I was phoned up by a cult help group in the UK who told me loads of stuff that was not nice and confirmed that I was in fact a target

I am cause stalked and e harassed, believe me this exists and can be found in some cult circles that this is what is used to basically silence someone, in the worse case situation the target is taken out, such as neutralised, they have tried to do that twice, with three poisonings, two attempted car accidents

Anyway the byron katie experience is one of the key points in this affair, it is complicated and needs explaining I might need my own thread eventually and as it has so many layers to unravel it. I would not know where to place it? So I started with BK and ended with E Tolle

I need some help and did phone up Rick and ask his opinion but that was early days and it has blossomed into something really horrible and it leaves me unsure of what I should do now

chick

The Byron Katie (The Work) links are crawling with hypnotherapists, hypnotherapy, hypnosis, covert hypnosis...

[www.google.com]



Byron Katie certified facilitator is a Hypnotist:
_____________________________________________
Diane Bradshaw
Arizona, USA
English
"My journey as a trainer began in the late 80's with a hunger to learn everything I could about self awareness and healing. For many years to follow, I had a very active hypnosis business and school...
...Many have considered me a pioneering innovator in the hypnosis profession with a unique approach to inner child work. I have extensive experience in all aspects of hypnosis from behavioral change to deep core issues....
When appropriate, I creatively interlaces the four questions of the Work of Byron Katie and hypnosis with simplicity and ease."
www.dianebradshaw.com/_wsn/page2.html
(The Work of Byron Katie as facilitated by Clarity Coaching Institute.)

_________________________________________
Sagar Simon MS Counseling
Certified in the work of Byron Katie
Registered Hypnotherapist

" Sagar is a Certified facilitator of "The Work" of Byron Katie. He has two decades of experience in leading groups, mediations and hypnosis workshops. He has staffed many courses and workshops given by Byron Katie."
[www.people-solutions.org]
____________________________________________________

[www.feelgoodgirl.com]
"Stephanie Brail, and I am a well-being coach, healer, and hypnotherapist."

An Introduction to The Work of Byron Katie by Stephanie Brail
[www.feelgoodgirl.com]
____________________________________

[www.soundspositive.com]
"The soothing voice you hear belongs to Lysette Offley, founder of Sounds Positive and Henley Hypnotherapy...Lysette has attended many Landmark Corporation courses including extensive courses on Relationships, Intimacy and Effectiveness and Tony Robbins Courses...
She has also trained with... Byron Katie..."
_______________________________________


Ooohhhh scary scary stuff. Gives me chills, for real.

So many people just waiting to gain entry to your brain. LOCK THE DOOR!!!

The teachings of Landmark, Tony Robbins and Byron Katie all in one woman, Lysette Offley and her soothing voice . . .

So scary.

So just to add

Was this a cult that uses a range of books as part of the spiritual journey? I know I was manipulated and see that I was done over but the cult group said it was Scientology and or Landmark...

I was given The Four Agreements by Don Miquel Ruiz = Toltec
Fearless Living
Byron Katie, Loving what is (Sedona Method) which is known as the release technique, Gabrial
Sedona. Something to do with Lester Levenson
The New Earth By E Tolle = Theosophical Society and EST/Landmark
CNVC Non Violent Communication by Michael Rosenberg

and so on the process was equivilant to classic pavlovian conditioning.

E Tolle was published in my town, I also have the Order of the Nine Angles near where I live. I also live in a village which was once the centre of the Theosophical Society in the UK for a short time. Finally I have the rosicruscians and two JW churches and scientology up the road and 40 masonic lodges in my immediate vicinity

I know that whatever is going on is not nice. My marriage family are involved in some way and I then discovered that my father was a mason and that his mother was a Jehovahs Witness.

So that gives you a bit of a picture of this very complex web that has become very much of a focus for me. I did not understand that my family were involved in this stuff. I am not sure if the reason we have all been targetted is we have done something wrong. It went all pear shaped in February when I was attacked,ut can see that it has spanned 24 years so far I can see.

weird in that I only saw the bigger picture last Feb

chick

oh and I am related to Allen Carr the stop smoking guru,

now it all looks crap doesnt it....It feels it from where I am sitting

chick

not only that, Lysette Offley's own bio TEXT is her first attempt to put you into Trance using a Cue.
(Trance is focussed Attention)

"the soothing voice you hear"...that is a hypnotic command...
and its an Induction...its a basic one...like...

"as you hear the sound of my voice you may find yourself going on a journey into yourself...that's right...yeah...soothing...calm..."

etc, very standard stuff. So often these lower-skilled folks like Lysette Offley (sorry Lysette!), are better to study, as its more obvious. As they get better and better it becomes INVISIBLE except to the trained eye, like MAGICIANS. It looks like magicians to the public, but not to magicians, same thing.

Byron Katie is very skilled, she even literally says she IS INVISIBLE. That is abolutely brilliant. It means she is invisible to the Unconscious, and also on a conscious level, you link Byron Katie with God or the Holy Spirit, or whatever else is Invisible. If she says...I am not the holy spirit, I am not god...what is she doing? Linking God and BK as one, in the next breath. Very devious, and very perverse. I wish Dr. Milton Erickson were alive, maybe he would have exposed some of these people for the abuse they are doing to innocent, trusting nice decent people, on which it works the best.
Soul Surgery = covert deep hypnotherapy without the subjects consent, using metaphors, like Milton Erickson.

Byron Katie is so good, most people have no idea of what she is doing, a variant of covert hypnosis.
But Stever Robbins knows...these other folks know. Stever Robbins loves her, as she is so good, and makes a shitload of cash! Millions...raking in millions at this point, as her market is the most trusting people.
Since Byron Katie is in the New Age market of Love Love Love, it seems no one thinks and looks at things at a metalevel, so Byron Katie gets away with it.
Carol Skolnick also does Induction, but it appears to be more of an imitation of Byron Katie, Master covert Hypnotist and persuader...
She doesn't need a swinging watch, or to put you to sleep...its all Waking Trance...very sophisticated stuff...

By the way, Tony Robbins is also an expert in this, he studied with Richard Bandler directly, and Tony Robbins knows and does it so well, people can't see it. The most elegant and talented people do it so well you can't see the technique, like a good musician or artist, you just get swept away...in Love Love Love...

Quote
vlinden
The Byron Katie (The Work) links are crawling with hypnotherapists, hypnotherapy, hypnosis, covert hypnosis...
____________________________________

[www.soundspositive.com]
"The soothing voice you hear belongs to Lysette Offley, founder of Sounds Positive and Henley Hypnotherapy...Lysette has attended many Landmark Corporation courses including extensive courses on Relationships, Intimacy and Effectiveness and Tony Robbins Courses...
She has also trained with... Byron Katie..."
_______________________________________


Ooohhhh scary scary stuff. Gives me chills, for real.

So many people just waiting to gain entry to your brain. LOCK THE DOOR!!!

The teachings of Landmark, Tony Robbins and Byron Katie all in one woman, Lysette Offley and her soothing voice . . .

So scary.

Yikes, check out the hypnotic text EXCERPT from the Byron Katie certified facilitator Diane Bradshaw..

Notice how slick it looks and sounds? Just like a conversation.
She even buries the 4 Questions slightly, without saying Byron Katie, to draw you in.
This reads like advertising copy, but its really a light Trance Induction, just to start to draw you in.

Spot the embedded commands...leading questions, images of Self, OPEN HEART, cues, triggers...
This woman would get a lot of business from women...does she do this ethically?

-Does she refer people to Byron Katie seminars for a commission?

-it does NOT say on her title page she is a hypnotist.
-Is she registered and licensed as a hypnotist?
-does she adhere to a posted code of Ethics?


(fair-use excerpt for educational purposes, and analysis of language patterns)_____________________________
[dianebradshaw.com]

"I can show you how to begin experiencing the life most people only dream about using powerful tested and proven techniques. Many see dramatic and permanent results almost immediately!
And the best part is these techniques are simple and easy to apply.

Do you want to reduce stress… improve your relationships… feel more successful… overcome fears… feel more confident…or improve any aspect of your life simply and naturally?

Then you've come to the right place.

Hi. My name is Diane Bradshaw.
[..]
I can help you begin living the life you’ve dreamed of. Wouldn’t you love to move beyond old limiting beliefs and behaviors or toss away the burden of inner conflict and confusion? What if problems could cease to exist, and infinite possibilities and options were to take their place? What if you could take a step into internal freedom today?

I know that on the other side of all the inner conflict and challenge is a vibrant dynamic and compelling new you. And the magic of it is, it’s only a thought away.

I'll teach you how to use four simple questions that have already changed the lives of thousands of people. With them and a willingness to go for the truth, you can learn to master whatever is holding you back.

Isn’t it time for a free mind and an open heart?

Don’t wait, contact me now. Let's set up an appointment that could be the beginning of a transformation into a happier, healthier more joyful life.

Go for it!"