I am going to be really blunt here...those are extremely fucking dangerous people. I am not making this stuff up. They want to hammer people's minds down to nothing, rip it apart, Dis-Assemble your Identity, and reform it focussed on Byron Katie for her own vanity and self-interest. Meanwhile acting all sweet and holy, and saying the exact opposite.
Its sicko stuff, and plain as day to the moderately trained eye.
That numbess is a somatic response to the ingrained hypnotic Triggers and Cues she Anchored into you. It does nothing to me, other than piss me off ethically, as I can see her do it.
Openly calling out people's techniques as they do it, and they don't work on the subject.
It makes me very angry to see this type of abuse going on. Its Mind-Rape.
Why do they do it? I guess as they say...Power Corrupts. They get some power, and then they want more, and they get carried away with it.
From what I heard on the CD, Katie is in charge, sounds like Stephen is under HER spell too!
Those folks don't even believe in evil, or that anything is bad or good. One can imagine where that leads to, as the Power gets greater. Anything goes...
In a way, Byron Katie is one of the worst I have ever personally studied, mainly due to the unthreatening presentation.
Too bad Dr. Milton Erickson wasn't alive, so he could teach us about the realities of this type of covert hypnosis, and its ethical application, and the reality of the evil of its abuse.
My legs went numb while I was reading your notes. I bought that book, read a few passages, and got rid of it the next day.
I am going to respond to both of your posts at the same time. I'm going to be blunt here, too. This is very important to me, and I want to be sure that I understand you correctly. I would also like for you to try to understand me. It's not necessary, but it would be appreciated.
Yes, Jon told some BS. I totally agree with you. I'm sure I spewed plenty of BS while active in The Work, too. How can I possibly hammer the guy for doing this? He expressed his fears about participating in this forum openly, too. I have held back details of my involvement with BK and even changed some... LIED... to protect myself on this forum. I did that after YOU advised me to. Could it be possible that Jon was trying to protect himself from being slaughtered? I don't know if that's what happened or not. I didn't ask him.
You're talking about MIND RAPE... while you're going on and on picking apart Jon and what Jon was thinking, what he wanted, what his motives were... etc, etc. Has there ever been a time when you were wrong about your assumptions of people, Anticult? Did it ever occur to you that maybe things were not what they seemed? Reading people's minds... is that not mind rape? It's one thing to spot manipulation and hypnosis... it's another to completely assume that you know what another person is thinking, feeling, and what is motivating them.
Earlier today, I got a private message from someone giving me some advice... that had nothing to do with the reality of me, my situation, or my mind. It took me half an hour to figure out what that person was even talking about. It's very easy to assume that you know what someone is thinking because you see what they are doing... but the fact is that you can't know what's going on inside someone else's head.
I was aware that Jon was not totally honest about his level of involvement with Byron Katie from the start. However, I was not triggered by him like I am triggered by Carol Skolnick, and the like. I did not feel the same level of manipulation going on, even though I felt that manipulation was present. I really wanted to hear what the guy had to say about all of this... for my own selfish reasons. But, we've offended him, and I don't think he will be back.
As far as this not being a cultish group and not having to think alike
... I wonder how in the world you got such a wacky thing out of anything I said? I was only asking people to be more civil, so that we can get the message out there and be taken seriously
. Generally, people don't listen to irrational, angry people. Haven't you noticed?
I don't remember saying that there were barbarians on this forum, and I think that's a pretty convoluted interpretation of what I really did say. I said there were amazing people here, did you catch that part? I said that we look like
barbarians to other people when we act like this... did you get that? I did NOT say there were barbarians here.
To outsiders, that is how it looks at times. When I first found this group, I was hesitant to join because of the verbal wars going on. I've shared this forum with others, and they all say the same thing.
Simply put: if you want people to listen to you, you will probably need to speak more softly. No one is going to hang around or listen to you when you are screaming in their ears.
I never said anything about strong emotions not being all right. Where did you get that from? I know I've expressed some pretty strong emotions on this forum, and I've welcomed the strong emotions of others, and tried to be sympathetic at the same time. Considering what I know about myself... I think it's ludicrous that you would insinuate that I am somehow trying to squash strong emotion. But you don't really know me, do you? So why don't we just stick to what I actually said-- what I meant-- and leave all this mind-reading to the cults?
I wonder, am I now to be treated like a troll, too?
I'm not an expert in psychology, but I do know some things. Something I do know is this:Healthy groups bond FOR people.
Unhealthy groups bond AGAINST people
My understanding was that this forum was FOR the people who wanted to learn more. I don't remember being told that being a part of this forum would require me to fight against
people who came in here... especially the ones stating that they wanted to learn, and then actually read the threads. Yeah... Jon was out there... I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU... at the same time, I recognize his civility, and his actual attempts at participation. He might have needed to hear what we have to say. What happens when someone more authentic, but equally messed-up comes in here? Will they get the royal whipping, too? Seriously, the way this is going, it actually resembles an unhealthy
group, and more like a cult than I'm comfortable with.
I see how Jon was defending The Work. I also see how he might have felt his belief system was challenged from the start... by virtue of just being here
. He may have felt like he needed to justify himself to us. Who knows? If we are putting people on the defensive before they even settle in... how do we know we aren't chasing away the very people that we are supposed to be providing information for?
Did you ever think of educating
Jon about his behavior, before sending him to the slaughterhouse? I acknowledge that it is a total boundary violation when trolls show up here. I also know that you can't fault someone for violating a boundary if they don't know the boundary exists. Educate them about the boundary, and then, once they've been educated, if they continue to violate the boundary, you know you've got a real stinker on your hands.
Anticult, I would like to ask you to come back to my original post later and reread it. You are preaching to the proverbial choir, here. I'm on your side, believe it or not.
But, are you listening?
I want you to know right now that the outcome of this conversation will determine whether or not I stay involved with this forum. I realize that may mean nothing to you... but I really don't know. The people here and their participation means a great deal to me. I've been relying on all of you through the last week or so. I wouldn't want anyone to leave. And, I don't want to leave... in case my being here might actually be helping someone else, too.
I came here for help, and to help others. Not to belittle, degrade, or demean anyone. I don't want to be angry with Byron Katie forever. I want to get through this and move on with my life. I got hooked in with Byron Katie because I seek peace and happiness in my life... and she was promising it. That's what I wanted. I don't want to fight.
I think it's possible that you like to fight, Anticult. If it continues, I am going to leave. This is me educating you that what's happening here is violating my boundaries. As a part of this forum, who is also allowed to be different, I have that right. If the boundary continues to be violated, I will need to leave to maintain my integrity... the same reason that I left Bryon Katie in the dust.
I do not want to offend you. I hope that you can really hear what I'm saying. You have helped me immensely, and I appreciate that. But, this stuff is hurting me and others. I'm asking for civility so that I may stay and continue to get the help... and to help others, if possible. I'm thankful for all you've shared with me, but I will not let my good feelings and positive experiences here stand in the way of my own needs, and better judgment. I'm not willing to keep supporting the anti-troll smear campaigns.
rrmoderater does not hammer trolls. I think that his way of dealing with them is much more effective, and creates a healthier, safer environment for everyone concerned.
Now, regardless of how you interpret it, there's is nothing wrong or "cult-like" about my asking people in a public forum to behave civilly, thereby adhering to social norms. It might actually be a very healthy and positive step for all of us. I understand that many of us are angry. There's nothing wrong with expressing it in healthy ways. And, there's nothing wrong with me asking for this here, in this forum.
It is possible to speak the truth without having to use it as a weapon. Sometimes, the way truth is used in here... frankly, it borders on verbal abuse. I don't feel good about it, or feel good about taking part it in. It's too easy to get caught up in it, as I have learned. As hard as I've tried, I can't turn a blind eye to it, either.
Like you, I feel really bad for people who are having their identities and minds hammered by Byron Katie. I feel even worse for those people who may come in here and have their identities and character hammered by the Byron Katie busters. It doesn't make sense to me to treat people like this in this type of setting. You can say whatever you think is true, but you don't have to beat people down with your opinion.
That's my 2 cents on it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2008 04:53PM by jj52.