Good quote... and the complete opposite of what BK espouses.

too bad it seems Lauren is gone...

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lauren
I have just read through the links re:cults etc. that you mentioned above. Byron Katie is the opposite of these terms mentioned. These terms do not apply to her at all. She is merely helping people to end their suffering. She doesn't do it for them. She shares her experience. She shares what worked for her. Take it or leave it. She doesn't care whether you take it or leave it. She stays in her own business. She is the very opposite of 'control'. She is a lover of reality. She is a lover of 'what is'. It is not about control. It is about realizing that we have no control. And when we argue with reality, we are arguing with God and will lose that battle every time. Common sense, non-controlling.

If Byron Katie were really "staying in her business," then she wouldn't be running seminar after seminar and promoting this "work" she allegedly discovered on the heels of an alleged cockroach crawling over her foot whilst sprawled on the floor of some rehab.

Yeah, that's believable.

But once upon a time I bought into that story! Apparently a lot of others have too.

Interestingly, that cockroach in rehab, her illnesses, the washing machine thingy in Amsterdam, etc. All of that is HER STORY.

If she can have her STORY, then why can't YOU? I think it's a fair question.

"Lauren" seems to know a lot about what is going on inside of Byron Katie. How on earth can she know that BK "is a lover of reality" among other things?

According to her slick website, Byron Katie has got seven (7) events running in July 2010 alone. That includes a very expensive 28-day "Turnaround House" (price tag? $20,000). This Turnaround House claims to treat "the ultimate addiction, the only addiction: the mind's addiction to the unquestioned, stressful thoughts that cause all the suffering in our life."

Uh, it might be front-page news to some that there's no such thing as, oh, say, heroin addiction, cocaine addiction, nicotine addiction, etc. Noooo, there's only one addiction and it's in your mind. Yeah, right. Well then, if the reports re the Byron Katie schools and so on are true, that people are urged to refrain from ingesting drugs, sugar, etc. and even urged not to wear makeup (seriously?), then people might want to inform BK and staff that NOT indulging in those things is irrelevant. It's only the mind that matters, after all.

"The recommendation was to observe a drug free, sugar free diet for ten days prior to event to remove any potential mind altering affects of the substances." (See this Participant Report.)

"Given all the Suggested Don'ts (don't look in a mirror more than once a day, don't wear jewelry or makeup, don't think about your appearance, etc.), most folks looked pretty crummy by Day 3. Katie, however, looked radiant, rested, made up, perfectly coiffed, beautifully dressed at all times. (See this Participant Report.)

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lauren
I think it is sad that people take what they have heard, second-hand, and run with it and repeat it, as if it were fact.

I think it is sad that there is such a huge level of DENIAL from some parties that there might be even a HINT of anything wrong in BK-land. Interestingly "Lauren" has claimed that we are merely promoting hearsay here. Unfortunately that doesn't help her case, because the same can be said of her. Why believe what she has to say? She seems to think that Byron Katie is some sort of saint!

I know that "the work" HARMED me, and I'd barely gotten involved with it. It was less than a year. I was lucky. Am very glad that I found my way to all the important STORIES from others who corroborated the ALARM BELLS that began going off inside of me the longer I was involved with BK's "work."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 07:12PM by helpme2times.

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helpme2times
I think it is sad that there is such a huge level of DENIAL from some parties that there might be even a HINT of anything wrong in BK-land. Interestingly "Lauren" has claimed that we are merely promoting hearsay here. Unfortunately that doesn't help her case, because the same can be said of her. Why believe what she has to say? She seems to think that Byron Katie is some sort of saint!

I can understand wanting to defend something that you feel has really HELPED you, and how it must be hard to hear it criticized. Especially if you've gone through something very painful as it seems Lauren has, and then you find something which alleviates your pain from that, I can see where criticism of it would be hard to hear or consider.

There was a drug, Fen-phen (or Phen-fen) which helped obese people lose a lot of weight. But it was found to cause heart problems and taken off the market. But many people who were losing weight with it were VERY upset that they could no longer use it. They didn't care about the heart problems; they were winning the weight-loss battle for the first time in their lives. Many complained bitterly and publicly about its withdrawal from the market, even though it was killing people.

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helpme2times
If she can have her STORY, then why can't YOU? I think it's a fair question.

So true, the hypocrisy. She always says, "That's my story and I'm sticking to it." But cult leaders (and I've got to put her in that category) are always exempt from doing what they demand of their followers.

BK's story-changing seems to go in three stages, starting with the most 'palatable' one. 1: re-examine your story. 2: rewrite your story to be non-painful. 3: realize that you don't actually have any story at all because nothing is real. (And if you get to believing stage 3, you've likely paid BK lots of money and replaced your identity with one that she's given you.) She starts with a reasonable premise, question stressful thoughts, and then takes it to a completely wacked extreme of questioning every thought and every facet of existence and turning it all on its head until you are no longer existing in what most would call reality.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 11:24PM by Splash90.

"you've likely paid BK lots of money and replaced your identity with one that she's given you"


and the only acceptable identity in BK land is the one of complete submission to 'reality as dictated by Byron Katie.'

Game set and match to Byron Katie.

Oh gawd... I heard about BK through a recent article in O the Oprah magazine. And now, p.135 of the latest O issue says, "To quote one of O's favorite philosophers, Eckhart Tolle..." UGH!! Maybe I should stop reading this magazine...

Splash90, everyone who picks up that magazine should break out in a rash! **LOL** Seriously, Oprah ought to just re-name it "Cult of the Month Club".......

Although she did give us Dr. Phil, so she's can't be all bad....

LOL... at least Dr. Phil hasn't yet aspired to Godhood. And he gives good advice in the magazine. Funny thing is I've never even watched Oprah on TV. I don't get the magazine because of her but because of all the great articles in it that OTHER people write.

I'd like to see her really investigate BK and ET more thoroughly (i.e. attend their intensive programs with a journalistic mindset) instead of just taking their surface act at face value, and I bet she wouldn't be singing their praises anymore! She used to be a journalist. Now she's just a cheerleader -- which is why people love her, because she loves everybody and everything -- but it does dull her judgment which in turn calls her credibility into question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2010 02:23AM by Splash90.

there seems to be a few people on here who are kind and caring and seem to want to help, and then there are others...
'helpme2times'....you seem to be in the 'others' category. I don't enjoy your attacks. i don't enjoy your quoting me, i don't enjoy my 'name' in 'quotes' and then have an attack or a dig follow. if this is what this forum is about, and it seems to be, then i am very sorry i even wrote on here, because it seems to have fueled more fire to attack with.

Do you all feel better by attacking Byron Katie or Ekhart Tolle or others? Does it make you feel better about yourselves? I can't imagine how it would, but maybe in some warped world it might. You are right, splash. I have stayed off this forum because it wasn't a kind place. And you are also right in that i have been having to deal with so much pain right now, you can't even imagine; i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So, if Byron Katie's method of inquiry happens to be the only thing that brings me peace in my heart, some of you DARE to shoot that down and destroy it??? What gives you the right, 'helpme2times', to attack something that is helping a human being that is suffering terribly? Who are you to do that? Or to TRY to do that? WHat kind of person would WANT to do that???? I don't know. I wouldn't. Ever.

If you don't understand the Work, then that is okay. You don't have to understand it. Or like it. But if it helps other people, who are YOU to take that away from anyone? People can deal very nicely with their own lives without you butting in and trying to destroy them. You really should all mind your own business. Stay out of Katie's life. Stay out of other people's lives. It's not cool to mess with other people's lifelines. If Katie's Work has helped me, who are you to say that it's wrong and lame and a cult? I realize that her schools are expensive. I realize that some seminars are expensive. I realize that the cockroach story is weird. But so what? The Work helps me. It isn't hurting me. It is MY decision to make. That is the right of every individual to make that decision. Personally, I haven't spent a dime hardly and Katie's concept has helped me tremendously when I didn't think I could go on another day. She provides a lot of help without charge. She doesn't force her Work on anyone. If you knew of Katie and the Work, you would know that. From what i have read on this forum, it really seems like no one knows anything about Katie or the Work but you attack it for reasons that I can't quite fathom.


So, if you all have nothing better going on in your lives, and have nothing better to do than to get on this forum and cut people down(REAL LIVE PEOPLE, With Feelings, btw) and mock people and try to destroy people that have helped so many, then how does that you make you above what you are mocking?
Seriously. I don't think that everyone on here is vindictive and hateful and mocking (you know who of you are and you should be ashamed of yourselves).

For the few that aren't, and have a real motive to help, i just ask that you not mock things that you really don't understand. You say that the Work causes harm and is dangerous. But the REAL danger is in what you all are doing, in trying to destroy what may be a person's last hope at life. THAT is how serious this forum is and the serious damage it can cause.

As I have said, I have been off here, because i did not see any open minds. Just closed minds intent on spewing hate for something they don't understand or have no experience with. But i kept getting email notices that this thread was still going on. Curious as to what more could possibly be said on this topic, I came back on. Big mistake. There is enough hate in the world without seeking it out from strangers on a forum. I am going to remove my name from this forum, so the emails will stop.

I sincerely hope that the hate will stop on here, but I am not in control of what you all do. I would ask that you stop talking about this, particularly stop quoting me. If i would have realized that my brief initial comment would just stir up more hate and animosity, i certainly would never have commented. I am sorry I did. It seems to have caused more harm when the intent was to cause good.

Do not, please, talk about my words. I am thankful for the help that Katie's approach has given me and it hurts a lot to hear your attacks, especially the attacks that are mean and hateful. Katie's questions have helped me and countless others, like it or not. It is not harmful. These accusations are spoken from ignorance of the facts. Just that last sentence alone is going to incite some of you, but it is the truth. If you have not been helped by it, if you have never been in a place where you needed this help, then who are you to judge it? Who are you to say it doesn't work? Who are you to judge those that are helped by it? It isn't for everyone, but if it helps people who have tried everything else to no avail, how COULD you argue with it or try to destroy their final lifeline???

read the hateful words of "helpme2times" below...and then think about where the hate is..think about WHY it is...think about the damage these words cause. I don't want hate in my life. I will not read this sort of hateful, ignorant bias any more. Byron Katie's Work does not HARM people. Hate, ugly thoughts, such as is displayed here, is what harms people.

Just...please...stop the hate. And maybe try to be thankful for what you have...and stop trying to take help away from others who need it. Please. Just stay in your own business and leave others alone.

Quote
helpme2times

Quote
lauren
I have just read through the links re:cults etc. that you mentioned above. Byron Katie is the opposite of these terms mentioned. These terms do not apply to her at all. She is merely helping people to end their suffering. She doesn't do it for them. She shares her experience. She shares what worked for her. Take it or leave it. She doesn't care whether you take it or leave it. She stays in her own business. She is the very opposite of 'control'. She is a lover of reality. She is a lover of 'what is'. It is not about control. It is about realizing that we have no control. And when we argue with reality, we are arguing with God and will lose that battle every time. Common sense, non-controlling.

If Byron Katie were really "staying in her business," then she wouldn't be running seminar after seminar and promoting this "work" she allegedly discovered on the heels of an alleged cockroach crawling over her foot whilst sprawled on the floor of some rehab.

Yeah, that's believable.

But once upon a time I bought into that story! Apparently a lot of others have too.

Interestingly, that cockroach in rehab, her illnesses, the washing machine thingy in Amsterdam, etc. All of that is HER STORY.

If she can have her STORY, then why can't YOU? I think it's a fair question.

"Lauren" seems to know a lot about what is going on inside of Byron Katie. How on earth can she know that BK "is a lover of reality" among other things?

According to her slick website, Byron Katie has got seven (7) events running in July 2010 alone. That includes a very expensive 28-day "Turnaround House" (price tag? $20,000). This Turnaround House claims to treat "the ultimate addiction, the only addiction: the mind's addiction to the unquestioned, stressful thoughts that cause all the suffering in our life."

Uh, it might be front-page news to some that there's no such thing as, oh, say, heroin addiction, cocaine addiction, nicotine addiction, etc. Noooo, there's only one addiction and it's in your mind. Yeah, right. Well then, if the reports re the Byron Katie schools and so on are true, that people are urged to refrain from ingesting drugs, sugar, etc. and even urged not to wear makeup (seriously?), then people might want to inform BK and staff that NOT indulging in those things is irrelevant. It's only the mind that matters, after all.

"The recommendation was to observe a drug free, sugar free diet for ten days prior to event to remove any potential mind altering affects of the substances." (See this Participant Report.)

"Given all the Suggested Don'ts (don't look in a mirror more than once a day, don't wear jewelry or makeup, don't think about your appearance, etc.), most folks looked pretty crummy by Day 3. Katie, however, looked radiant, rested, made up, perfectly coiffed, beautifully dressed at all times. (See this Participant Report.)

Quote
lauren
I think it is sad that people take what they have heard, second-hand, and run with it and repeat it, as if it were fact.

I think it is sad that there is such a huge level of DENIAL from some parties that there might be even a HINT of anything wrong in BK-land. Interestingly "Lauren" has claimed that we are merely promoting hearsay here. Unfortunately that doesn't help her case, because the same can be said of her. Why believe what she has to say? She seems to think that Byron Katie is some sort of saint!

I know that "the work" HARMED me, and I'd barely gotten involved with it. It was less than a year. I was lucky. Am very glad that I found my way to all the important STORIES from others who corroborated the ALARM BELLS that began going off inside of me the longer I was involved with BK's "work."

lauren:

Your last post was filled with personal attacks, which is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.

The next time you include personal attacks within your comments the post will not be approved and you may be banned from this message board.

When people disagree with you it doesn't mean they don't "understand" you, it simply means they think you are wrong.

Labeling people "hateful" or "spewing hate" because they are critical of Katie, Tolle or others is not a meaningful response to criticism.

Katie and other so-called "self-help" gurus have hurt people. This board is a place for those hurt by such controversial leaders, groups and movements to exchange ideas, dialog and comment.

If you don't want to be quoted don't post here.

If you can't handle criticism of Katie don't post here.

You are certainly free to believe whatever you wish to make yourself "feel good," but don't expect others to go along with you based upon your subjective feelings.

Quote
lauren
there seems to be a few people on here who are kind and caring and seem to want to help, and then there are others...
'helpme2times'....you seem to be in the 'others' category. I don't enjoy your attacks. i don't enjoy your quoting me, i don't enjoy my 'name' in 'quotes' and then have an attack or a dig follow. if this is what this forum is about, and it seems to be, then i am very sorry i even wrote on here, because it seems to have fueled more fire to attack with.

Do you all feel better by attacking Byron Katie or Ekhart Tolle or others? Does it make you feel better about yourselves? I can't imagine how it would, but maybe in some warped world it might. You are right, splash. I have stayed off this forum because it wasn't a kind place. And you are also right in that i have been having to deal with so much pain right now, you can't even imagine; i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So, if Byron Katie's method of inquiry happens to be the only thing that brings me peace in my heart, some of you DARE to shoot that down and destroy it??? What gives you the right, 'helpme2times', to attack something that is helping a human being that is suffering terribly? Who are you to do that? Or to TRY to do that? WHat kind of person would WANT to do that???? I don't know. I wouldn't. Ever.

If you don't understand the Work, then that is okay. You don't have to understand it. Or like it. But if it helps other people, who are YOU to take that away from anyone? People can deal very nicely with their own lives without you butting in and trying to destroy them. You really should all mind your own business. Stay out of Katie's life. Stay out of other people's lives. It's not cool to mess with other people's lifelines. If Katie's Work has helped me, who are you to say that it's wrong and lame and a cult? I realize that her schools are expensive. I realize that some seminars are expensive. I realize that the cockroach story is weird. But so what? The Work helps me. It isn't hurting me. It is MY decision to make. That is the right of every individual to make that decision. Personally, I haven't spent a dime hardly and Katie's concept has helped me tremendously when I didn't think I could go on another day. She provides a lot of help without charge. She doesn't force her Work on anyone. If you knew of Katie and the Work, you would know that. From what i have read on this forum, it really seems like no one knows anything about Katie or the Work but you attack it for reasons that I can't quite fathom.


So, if you all have nothing better going on in your lives, and have nothing better to do than to get on this forum and cut people down(REAL LIVE PEOPLE, With Feelings, btw) and mock people and try to destroy people that have helped so many, then how does that you make you above what you are mocking?
Seriously. I don't think that everyone on here is vindictive and hateful and mocking (you know who of you are and you should be ashamed of yourselves).

For the few that aren't, and have a real motive to help, i just ask that you not mock things that you really don't understand. You say that the Work causes harm and is dangerous. But the REAL danger is in what you all are doing, in trying to destroy what may be a person's last hope at life. THAT is how serious this forum is and the serious damage it can cause.

As I have said, I have been off here, because i did not see any open minds. Just closed minds intent on spewing hate for something they don't understand or have no experience with. But i kept getting email notices that this thread was still going on. Curious as to what more could possibly be said on this topic, I came back on. Big mistake. There is enough hate in the world without seeking it out from strangers on a forum. I am going to remove my name from this forum, so the emails will stop.

I sincerely hope that the hate will stop on here, but I am not in control of what you all do. I would ask that you stop talking about this, particularly stop quoting me. If i would have realized that my brief initial comment would just stir up more hate and animosity, i certainly would never have commented. I am sorry I did. It seems to have caused more harm when the intent was to cause good.

Do not, please, talk about my words. I am thankful for the help that Katie's approach has given me and it hurts a lot to hear your attacks, especially the attacks that are mean and hateful. Katie's questions have helped me and countless others, like it or not. It is not harmful. These accusations are spoken from ignorance of the facts. Just that last sentence alone is going to incite some of you, but it is the truth. If you have not been helped by it, if you have never been in a place where you needed this help, then who are you to judge it? Who are you to say it doesn't work? Who are you to judge those that are helped by it? It isn't for everyone, but if it helps people who have tried everything else to no avail, how COULD you argue with it or try to destroy their final lifeline???

read the hateful words of "helpme2times" below...and then think about where the hate is..think about WHY it is...think about the damage these words cause. I don't want hate in my life. I will not read this sort of hateful, ignorant bias any more. Byron Katie's Work does not HARM people. Hate, ugly thoughts, such as is displayed here, is what harms people.

Just...please...stop the hate. And maybe try to be thankful for what you have...and stop trying to take help away from others who need it. Please. Just stay in your own business and leave others alone.

"Just...please...stop the hate."

According to the work, Lauren, I ought to be doing exactly what I'm doing.

And you ought to be LOVING IT.

Because that's "what is." "That's the reality of it."

(Quoting BK there. Might be paraphrasing, as it's been a long time since I've listened to her.)

As a reminder, the cornerstone of the work is "Loving What Is." That's the title of the main book promoting the work.

In your communication above, I find little to no evidence of an ability to "Love What Is." Here I am in this forum exercising my right of FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Why on earth should that bother you? After all, the only cause of suffering is what takes place in your own mind according to BK.

Please don't tell me to "stay in your own business." I don't subscribe to the work anymore and therefore don't believe in that. On the other hand, you say you that DO believe in the work, so why not be model of what the work tells you to do by staying in your own business?

If loving what is and staying in your own business can't be managed by you, despite your loving and doing the work, then maybe the work isn't working.