Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: March 24, 2010 09:54PM

shimon:

Please post the link to the article at the BK site so anyone interested can look at it there.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: shimon ()
Date: March 24, 2010 11:57PM

Quote
rrmoderator
shimon:

Please post the link to the article at the BK site so anyone interested can look at it there.


first off, misunderstandings on your part. i did not endorse this article. i posted it to show that there already is a byron katie/buddhist connection. it has been on her site for years. i read it years ago. that was all. i do not endorse it and agree it is very dangerous, to compare her to buddhas teaching. yes indeed, it is a propaganda piece. it is clearly obvious.

hope this link works. i found it by typing in at google byron katie+buddhism. I am not so good at computers, so actually asked somebody else to post the link, but he/she refused and said i should post it, so i did. sorry again for posting such a long propaganda piece without a proper analysis. but i dont like to take the time to write and share all that and have the rrmoderator not post my post, which has happened several times already. but here is the link as far as i know:

[www.thework.com]

i am sorry for any confusion or misunderstanding, that was not my purpose, was just trying to help and to point out the connection already existed. she is also connected with neo-advaita satsang teachers and is at conferences about nonduality. she is connected with the likes of deepak chopra, eckhart tolle, and wayne dyer to name a few.

[Moderator's note: The article cited by this person was later deleted due to discrepancies concerning its origin, attribution and intent.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2010 04:49AM by rrmoderator.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 25, 2010 01:21AM

Quote

was just trying to help and to point out the connection already existed. she is also connected with neo-advaita satsang teachers and is at conferences about nonduality. she is connected with the likes of deepak chopra, eckhart tolle, and wayne dyer to name a few.

It would help if you provided the URLs that can lead us to currently published or cached source material that demonstrate this?

At one time, two years ago, Shimon did provide a URL on an earlier article on another thread.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote


June 18, 2007 08:20PM


Quote

June 18, 2007 08:40PM

I just found another devotee of hawkins and their website dedicated to hawkins calibrations. Wow more and more people are buying this nonsense than ever before and promoting it. They obviously dont realize that many of Hawkins calibrations are off and vary according to which book he published them in. There are no consistent hawkins calibrations. ANd I had to laugh, the Bee Gees and Santanas music calibrates higher than Elvis PResleys, the originator of Rock n Roll.

[www.calibratedgoods.com]

(The URL corresponds to www(dot)calibratedgoods(dot)com(slash)index(dot)html)

Corboy note--that URL is now dead but this post was from two years ago. )

Providing a URL is not hard to do.

Find an article you believe to be a contribution to the discussion at hand.

click on the URL in the brower window--the little string of letters that begin with http.

Then copy or Cntrl+C and then go to your post on the message board, and do 'Paste' or Cntrl+V. You can always go to the Help menu on your browser and learn more about how to copy and paste URLs.

It isnt hard to do.

If you ask other people to do it, you will never learn to do it yourself.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: March 25, 2010 04:50AM

To whom it may concern:

"Shimon" has been banned from this message board.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) codexploder.biyosecurity.net
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 25, 2010 05:27AM

Not sure exactly what happened, but one thing for sure, that "article" about Byron Katie = Buddha, as others have mentioned, has this name attached to it.

codexploder.biyosecurity.net
site:www.thework.com codexploder.biyosecurity.net
site:www.thework.com codexploder

That same phrase is on a number of Byron Katie website pages, don't know if it a hacker situation with the BK webpages, or what?

Its a real shame that too trusting people are going to read deep propaganda pieces like that, and take them at "face value" meanwhile the text of the article is like a mind-virus itself.
That Byron Katie is the Buddha "article" is a bit of a "codexploder/CodeXpLoder" of the mind itself.

Would like to know who wrote that, any names come up? Was it posted anywhere else?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2010 05:35AM by The Anticult.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) codexploder.biyosecurity.net
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: March 25, 2010 06:20AM

The Anticult:

If you find something out by all means share it with the board.

Meanwhile we have one less troll.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 25, 2010 09:06AM

---



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2010 09:11AM by corboy.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 25, 2010 09:14AM

If you type byron katie and toynbee into the Google search slot, you get this--a direct link to an article giving the
text that 'Shimon' referred to.

[www.thework.com]

But unlike 'Shimons' URL, this article goes to BK's official website and the real tip off is, you see not only the name of the author of the article, at the bottom of the window, you read the name of the web designer and the typical legal comments. If you click on each of the links on the left hand side bar, these elicit windows, each giving the name, at bottom of the same web designer, and legal language.

The pages Shimons URL led to did not contain the names of the web designer or the characteristic legal language that is present on the pages of BK's official site.

If anyone desires to understand 'Shimons' past performance, go up to the right hand corner of the message board and find 'Search'

Click and then go down and put Shimon into the author slot.

Because the Ross Institute message board has been up for 8 years, remember to type 'all dates' into the slot.

You will get 3 pages of results for past Shimon posts and if you read them, you will learn much.




Sleep well, dear friends.

It has been a long day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2010 09:19AM by corboy.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Kevin Maher
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: March 25, 2010 09:24AM

Strange, that might be some typed of hacked web-page? Who knows.
But the new links says the author of that advertisement pamphlet for BK is:

Fifth-Peak Buddhism By Kevin Maher, M.D.

There are a few links between Byron Katie and Kevin Maher.

Search Google for:

"Kevin Maher" "Byron katie"


He's been doing promo for Byron Katie since 2002.
kevin maher (Larkspur, CA, USA) [www.amazon.com]

Actually since 1995.

How a Self-Help Guru Is Born [www.culteducation.com]
"By the early '90s, the workshops began to look much as they do now. At a Marin County appearance in 1995, Larkspur doctor Kevin Maher, now a close Katie friend, saw her for the first time. In that part of the state, he says, "You were used to seeing these neo-bohemian Marinites who had been to India and declared themselves enlightened beings. Katie shows up looking like Dolly Parton and Tammy Faye Bakker."

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 25, 2010 07:53PM

In reference to the Maher article citing there being such a thing as Fifth Level Buddhism, I am going to be a lay person and offer an opinion, a personal opinion

I want to make clear I am not preaching Buddhism. I am attempting to offer what has been termed an interior critique from within a Buddhist perspective--one among many, of an assertion linking a commercial phenomenon--Byron Katie, to something non commercial, in this case Buddhadharma, by critiquing, within a Buddhist perpective, the suggestion that there could be such a thing as Fifth stage Buddhism and that this gives a legitimate place in Buddha dharma to a business venture, somethign that carries a dot com in its URL.

Genuine Buddhist teaching is not supposed to massage what are termed the afflictive emotions of greed/craving, hate or delusion.

So genuine Buddhist teaching should not leave a person craving a new improved form of Buddhism or distract from ones present practice by instilling concern that ones current practice is not 'enough' and that one needs to seek an improved version.

Nor should it instill excitement--or celebrity mentality, for those can be considered forms of intoxication.

Now, lets look at just the two opening paragraphs of the article, as given under the authors name, and from BK's official website.

[www.thework.com]

The text of the article reads oddly. Toynbee and Thurman are referred to. One dead, one living. Both famous as scholars.

Toynbee, a historian is cited, but his references are never made clear. No sources, n page numbers, no title of a book or article or edition given.

Quote

Arnold Toynbee said that the most significant event of the twentieth century would be the advent of Buddhism in the West. He never elaborated on how he thought it might arrive.

Quote

Thurman hinted that everyone was asleep during the Japanese scholar’s lecture including the lecturer himself. Then the scholar said that the fifth peak of Buddhism had not occurred yet and might not occur at all; but if it were to occur, the fifth peak of Buddhism would occur in the United States. Everybody including the scholar, on hearing this amazing concept, woke up.

WHo is the Japanese scholar who fell asleep and to whom Thurman allegedly referred? When I had to write and defend a masters thesis, I had to account for all my statements and give sources--specific ones.

This vagueness about Toynbee and the un-named professor? Some might whine that thsi is all about spiritual matters and its not the time and place to nit pick about sources.

Well, folks if you want to invoke the names of academics in order to get prestige and earn trust, you have to follow the standards that make these academics trustworthy and sources of prestige. That means, name your sources. What place and where did Toynbee make that assertion? Who was the Japanese professor? Dont be vague.

Something that does not recognize itself as Buddhism?

Hmmm.

Spirit Rock Meditation Center was founded by persons who learned Buddhadharma from the Theravedan tradition, whose scriptures are the oldest Buddhist source texts and in Pali.

[www.spiritrock.org]

Quote

The Dharma of Liberation
Spirit Rock Meditation Center is founded to create an enduring dharma retreat, practice, community and study center rooted in the Buddhist tradition. The teachings at Spirit Rock are based upon the dharma, the teachings of the Buddha, as expressed in the suttas of the Pali Canon. These suttas offer clear, ethical, social and ecological teachings supportive of a wise and compassionate life in the world, as well as instruction in a range of meditative practices. The primary meditative practice taught at Spirit Rock is vipassana (insight) meditation, as described in the Satipatthana Sutta (the Four Foundations of Mindfulness) and other supportive practices including mindfulness of breathing (Anapanasati Sutta) and loving-kindness meditation (Metta Sutta). The purpose of the teachings and practices is the realization of wisdom in the words of the Buddha, "the sure heart's release."

Spirit Rock Meditation Center is a place where these traditional teachings can flower in an American form. For centuries in Asia, most of Buddhist practice has been preserved in monasteries. In the west, the focus is shifting to a growing community of lay meditators, whose vision of spiritual practice includes preserving the depth of traditional wisdom and teachings while also developing an integrated and openhearted life of engagement in the world. Following the Buddha's teachings of interconnectedness and non-duality, our commitment is to realize liberation by making the practice of mindful awareness the basis of our lives.

These Pali scriptures are also referenced by pratitioners of Mahayana Buddhism of which Thurman is part (he's a practitioner in one of the Tibetan lineages)--though some Mahayana schools have added features, claims of sutras being discovered on the walls of caves or in visions, etc.

Thats not in the Pali-Theravedan tradition, which is also to this day known as the Way of the Elders.

There is a famous Pali sutra--called the Parinibbana Sutra, which summarizes Buddhas Dharma teachings. It is well known, often cited, easily accessed online and in books. Its teachings are structured around a a narrative of what were reportedly Buddhas last travels and his death.

It is an early Buddist text and a very accessible one. And it contains a compassinate teaching that is too often forgotten, but that should be forefront in the minds of anyone, especially teachers and co founders of any Theravedan based retreat center using the Pali scriptures.

In the 31st paragraph, Ananada, Buddhas attendant, expects that his dying teacher might have some final teaching to provide. Earlier in this same sutra, the Buddha had visited different persons and towns and in these sections, repeats the basic Buddhist teachings on how to practice insight and compassion and attain liberation in this body and in this life.

Quote

31. And the Blessed One recovered from that illness; and soon after his recovery he came out from his dwelling place and sat down in the shade of the building, on a seat prepared for him. Then the Venerable Ananda approached the Blessed One, respectfully greeted him, and sitting down at one side, he spoke to the Blessed One, saying: "Fortunate it is for me, O Lord, to see the Blessed One at ease again! Fortunate it is for me, O Lord, to see the Blessed One recovered! For truly, Lord, when I saw the Blessed One's sickness it was as though my own body became weak as a creeper, every thing around became dim to me, and my senses failed me. Yet, Lord, I still had some little comfort in the thought that the Blessed One would not come to his final passing away until he had given some last instructions respecting the community of bhikkhus."

32. Thus spoke the Venerable Ananda, but the Blessed One answered him, saying: "What more does the community of bhikkhus expect from me, Ananda? I have set forth the Dhamma without making any distinction of esoteric and exoteric doctrine; there is nothing, Ananda, with regard to the teachings that the Tathagata holds to the last with the closed fist of a teacher who keeps some things back'.

Now, here is my lay persons opinion. I have no teaching authority, but did take a vow as a lay person to look after the three jewels of Buddha, Dharma and the well being of the community of practitioners.

I suggest pondering paragraph 31 and 32 and ask, where and in what way can this very basic Pali sutra support any assertion that there is a need for a Fifth Stage Buddhism?

Lets apply insight. Might this Fifth Stage of Buddhism be a fantasy brought about by craving minds, minds bored with the simplicity and lack of mystery and secrecy that characterizes basic Buddhist teaching?

What state of mind and emotion leads us to imagine we need more than whats already spelled out in the Pali canons, when in the oldest texts, Buddha gives the compassionate teaching thathe supplied all the advice needed and that the community did not need to fear he had held anything back from them?

A teaching that was meant to free Buddhas grieving students from the slavery of worrying that they had to look or wait for a new savior, yet another stage of Buddhism,
yet another gadget.

He wanted to make sure we were free from craving new 'improved' forms of Buddhist
teaching.

Its like saying, 'I fixed your car. And I fixed it completely. Drive it. Test it in all conditions and at all speeds. You will see for yourself. You can ignore anyone who comes along trying to sell you a new car; Just test drive it and see for yourself. No need to buy a new car.'

I offer this interior critique, not to preach or establish some position of authority for myself, but to state that Buddhist commitmetn and care for right speech does not mean a concerned Buddhist is obligated to stay passively silent in the presence of a social drift in which something that seems alien to Buddhism is seeking to penetrate Buddhism and confuse the two.

There is a way to discuss this and set some boundaries by working from the oldest texts of a tradition that has become very popular in the West and is attracting attention from entrepreneurs.

Buddha was a teacher and not a businessman. He sought to liberate us from craving, not massage our craving so as to sell himself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2010 08:11PM by corboy.

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