Re: Janaki & Byron Katie filetype:pdf (links to online sources)
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 05, 2010 05:06AM

Apparently the first link above is the most recent?

Janaki & Katie January 2010.pdf

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Garden of Even ()
Date: February 07, 2010 08:48PM

Hi...

It's been a while

Has it ever been discussed in this thread if Byron Katie has a narcissist personality disorder (NPD)? I think she does.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: February 08, 2010 04:46AM

Quote
Garden of Even
Hi...

It's been a while

Has it ever been discussed in this thread if Byron Katie has a narcissist personality disorder (NPD)? I think she does.

That wouldn't be up to anyone here to diagnose. We could speculate, but what good is that?

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and NPD Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 08, 2010 06:18AM

NPD Narcissistic Personality Disorder in relation to Byron Katie and other LGAT Gurus has been discussed many times.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Byron Katie (the Work) and malignant narcissism [forum.culteducation.com]

Search Google for:

site:forum.culteducation.com "byron katie" narcissist

Reviewing the criteria for NPD and other personality disorders can be very important for various LGAT Gurus, as it can explain much about their exploitative behavior and personality traits.


_____________________________________________
[www.mental-health-today.com]
Narcissistic DSM IV Criteria

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4) requires excessive admiration

(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes


Narcissistic personality disorder [www.mayoclinic.com]
Symptoms By Mayo Clinic staff

Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

Believing that you're better than others
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Believing that you're special
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
Taking advantage of others
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
Being jealous of others
Believing that others are jealous of you
Trouble keeping healthy relationships

NPD [www.halcyon.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2010 06:24AM by The Anticult.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: UseYourBrain ()
Date: February 18, 2010 12:59AM

Concerning the "Janaki & Katie-pdf"

I would like to download the file, but after three days of trying I gave up, as I can't get the nakido flag to work.
Is there any other way to obtain the pdf?

I read throught this thread and found it very, very useful, as I had started using the work some months ago after reading two books about it. First I thought it was a great idea but then I felt more and more uneasy about it. So I looked for critical voices on the net and found this absolutely stunning forum. I also figured that I am a prone to such explain-it-all theories, as I "believed" in primal therapy some years ago, a theory which also gives one single method to well-feeling. It took me some time and mental effort to get rid of this over-simplifications. Are there any studies that describe factors that contribute to such a condition, or is this just human suggestability?

Re: Byron Katie (the Work)
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 18, 2010 04:42AM

That's unfortunate that people now have to install the Nakido Flag first, to download the PDF. Its an upload/download manager for regular users.
The good thing about Nakido is that the files seem to stay there and not get deleted after 30 days of no downloads, like some other websites.

But perhaps someone who already has a copy of the PDF, can upload it to a site that doesn't require installing anything to download it.

If someone has a copy of this file, perhaps it could get uploaded to another site.
Janaki & Katie January 2010.pdf
[www.nakido.com]


Heres a list of free file hosting websites [webupon.com]


File Dropper looks easy to use. [www.filedropper.com]
MyFileStore.Net [www.myfilestore.net]

File hosting websites can come and go, so the PDF may have to be re-uploaded from time to time...unless it appears on someones blog or something.
Maybe someone else knows a good place to suggest for easy uploading?

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: quackdave ()
Date: February 22, 2010 02:46AM

I was glad to read UseYourBrain's post, since my searching for "critical voices" was similar, and helped me tremendously. I was sorry, though, that nobody responded to her question:
Quote
UseYourBrain
Are there any studies that describe factors that contribute to such a condition, or is this just human suggestability?

I have also wondered about this in the past, and have basically used searching this site and all these threads to help find an answer or two.

Let me throw in my two-cents by saying that in this thread alone it has been repeatedly mentioned that most people are not "trained" or experienced in the covert persuasion and manipulation techniques that are used by these wolves in sheep's clothing. I might offer this metaphor: If a person who is trained in martial arts attacks you, and you have no experience in martial arts, there is very little chance you will be able to protect yourself; you will be at their mercy. Sadly, if they have no capacity for mercy, you are out of luck.

I have been "training" at this site, and in this thread, for over a year now and it has made a big difference already. I have had enough knowledge to keep large sums of money in my pocket, and to also say "no" to more than a few hucksters. I never had the training before, is all.

Thanks, everyone.

qd



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2010 02:52AM by quackdave.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work), Morten Tolboll, Criticism
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: February 22, 2010 03:27AM

I recently came upon the following criticism of Byron Katie's "work" by Morten Tolboll:

[[url=http://friendfeed-media.com/b769cfd1fdae786f3dce1513562536660f639bff]A Critique of Byron Katie[/url]]

Re: Byron Katie (the Work), Morten Tolboll, Criticism
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 22, 2010 04:31AM

That is a decent critique by Morten Tolboll, about the most basic aspect of the Byron Katie system. His main point seems to be that the Byron Katie 4 Questions are intellectually dishonest.
They have the embedded presupposition that your thought is false.
They are leading questions.

And that is not a mistake, of course.
Byron Katie designed the questions that way, delieberately, as proven in this thread in great detail. They are designed somewhat like a spiders web or mental quicksand, where if you set one foot inside, you can't get out if you follow the system.
They are designed to lead you where Byron Katie wants to lead you.

Ironically, Ben Mack actually made one good point that actually explains this aspect of the Byron Katie system. Byron Katie pre-frames her prospects and leads them by the hand to step into her greased chute sales system, which can't look like a sales system, and instead looks like some type of New Age non-dual philosophy.

[forum.culteducation.com] QUOTE: "Dave Lakhani demonstrates how to pre-frame a prospect to step into your greased chute. Dave explains why and how you NEED to lead your prospect by the hand into your sales-system... which can't look like a sales system."

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Demon Haunted World
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: February 22, 2010 04:50AM

This subject is addressed in the book the Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. [www.skepdic.com]

Where is training in basic critical thinking available to people? Not many places, not in the basic educational system.
Where is training in advanced covert persuasion available, that is accurate and reliable? Almost nowhere, and at great cost, with most of it being full of deception and misdirection.

But beyond that, humans are born suggestible and naive, as children are, which is why everyone wants to get at the children, and why Byron Katie wants to regress you to be a BK Schoolmate in the Byron Katie School.
The other argument is humans essentially have "stone age brains" which are highly superstitious, credulous and can literally believe in anything with enough repetition.
So when the New Age Guru comes forward and cynically promises the answers to EVERYTHING in the universe, and to eliminate ALL your SUFFERING and give your perfect happiness forever, and tells you is all FREE, then they have you.
The Guru like Byron Katie then actively works to disable the little critical thinking you may have left, and lure you deep inside the system.

There must be many actual psychological studies that look into the specific aspects of human psychology and how that relates to human suggestibility.
But human suggestibility and credulity seem to be the natural human state, and critical thinking has to be learned through specific training.


Quote
quackdave
I was glad to read UseYourBrain's post, since my searching for "critical voices" was similar, and helped me tremendously. I was sorry, though, that nobody responded to her question:
Quote
UseYourBrain
Are there any studies that describe factors that contribute to such a condition, or is this just human suggestability?

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