Re: Byron Katie (the Work) internet sock-puppets
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: September 01, 2009 06:40AM
Here we go again, same old game.
First off, they always say, "I haven't attended a Byron Katie LGAT seminar, and never will, and just read one book of Byron Katie".
Well, if that person only read one book, and haven't attended the Byron Katie LGAT seminar, then, that person is completely ignorant of what Byron Katie is doing.
No knowledge whatsoever.
So then that person should do some research.
Or that person is a typical BK shill, who is deliberately lying, which some of them do, as they don't believe in objective reality anyway.
Or most likely, due to the identical repeating patterns, its someone with some personal "issues", who is also deliberately lying again, and has nothing better to do.
But its obviously the same game as seen many times before.
The standing wager is 5 more sock-puppets in this incarnation.
What a waste of time, instead of dealing with serious issues.
First off, they always say, "I haven't attended a Byron Katie LGAT seminar, and never will, and just read one book of Byron Katie".
Well, if that person only read one book, and haven't attended the Byron Katie LGAT seminar, then, that person is completely ignorant of what Byron Katie is doing.
No knowledge whatsoever.
So then that person should do some research.
Or that person is a typical BK shill, who is deliberately lying, which some of them do, as they don't believe in objective reality anyway.
Or most likely, due to the identical repeating patterns, its someone with some personal "issues", who is also deliberately lying again, and has nothing better to do.
But its obviously the same game as seen many times before.
The standing wager is 5 more sock-puppets in this incarnation.
What a waste of time, instead of dealing with serious issues.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Forgiveness solipsism
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 01, 2009 06:52AM
The Anticult:
You are probably right, likely another sock-puppet.
You are probably right, likely another sock-puppet.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) internet sock-puppets
Posted by:
TarSpiel
()
Date: September 01, 2009 06:58AM
Quote
The Anticult
Here we go again, same old game.
First off, they always say, "I haven't attended a Byron Katie LGAT seminar, and never will, and just read one book of Byron Katie".
Well, if that person only read one book, and haven't attended the Byron Katie LGAT seminar, then, that person is completely ignorant of what Byron Katie is doing.
No knowledge whatsoever.
So then that person should do some research.
Or that person is a typical BK shill, who is deliberately lying, which some of them do, as they don't believe in objective reality anyway.
Or most likely, due to the identical repeating patterns, its someone with some personal "issues", who is also deliberately lying again, and has nothing better to do.
But its obviously the same game as seen many times before.
The standing wager is 5 more sock-puppets in this incarnation.
What a waste of time, instead of dealing with serious issues.
Wow.
I haven't gone to a BK event, so that disqualifies me from being interested in the idea that it might be a cult-type group? I've read one of her books, so that makes me a shill? I've seen youtubes of her, so that means I'm a sock-puppet? Good god, man.
In regards to what RR wrote, which has substance in it, I haven't gotten through even half of this thread yet, so I haven't read that stuff. I did wikipedia it, though, it it struck a major chord. It seems like BK seminars have a lot in common with that. If you can point me to the part of the thread with the characteristics, I'd like to read them.
Anticult...I understand that you have very strong opinions. That's fine. I'll hold my tongue for as long as I can with you. Then they'll ban me and you can go back to the way it was.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) boxes of books in the basement
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: September 01, 2009 06:58AM
There appears to be some new information posted on the Janaki blog?
Its written in red, in the middle of the page, linked below.
Its about how one of the houses in Barstow, the basement was filled with boxes of books of this kind of material.
Now of course, the trained eye can see the direct copying, and slight modifcation of various techniques, as has been shown many times in this thread
For example, there was the identical copying of the Milton Erickson "cactus" stories, which also was referenced by Richard Bandler many times.
That was written into A Cry In The Desert, at the end of the book, on page 211:
Byron Katie tells Christin that someone named David is cured of his cancer, and that he is out in the desert collecting and preserving rare cactus, and is the cactus man.
That is literally taken right from Dr. Milton Erickson's books and stories.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Its very obvious that BK directly copied material from many sources, and then somewhat customized it for herself, and later disguised it more and more, while acting like she made it all up herself.
And The School for The Work, is a hard-core LGAT seminar, who's components are directly copied from many other LGAT seminars, that is just reality, anyone with any experience in LGAT's sees that literally in seconds. Its an LGAT, done right by the book.
And if one looks at what Byron Katie is doing, it literally is a synthesis of those writers mentioned below. The most important one, is Richard Bandler, who was one of the founders of NLP, and one of the main people who wrote up how Dr. Milton Erickson did his conversational Ericksonian hypnotherapy, which is a very sophisticated form of Storytelling.
To the trained eye, its very obvious that Byron Katie does a customized version of those exact techniques, which has been proven and explained many times in this thread.
And the way to re-engineer beliefs in people, using advanced NLP, is to use "stories" with embedded metaphorical meanings. That is a covert way to modify people's belief systems without people even knowing its happening, as they are often encoded in "stories" in people's minds.
Changing people's "stories" is changing people's beliefs, that is why all these LGAT's want to change your Story, and replace it with THEIR Story.
The Official Byron Katie Story is the Gospel, and you are supposed to believe it on faith. (that is called a Sky-Hook belief).
Then her Cockroach Story, becomes an Open Loop, and she connects dozens and hundreds of other Nested Loop Stories, which slowly modify how a person perceives actual reality.
That is all very well explained in advanced NLP hypnosis materials that are available, ask Byron Katie's close friend Stever Robbins, he teaches and knows all about these methods in great detail. Stever Robbins also has worked with Richard Bandler personally many times. Its a small world after all.
Its very brilliantly designed, when targeted at a "spiritual" audience, as they generally don't have training in those techniques of belief modification of groups of people. For those with that training, its painfully obvious.
____________________________________
Ken Keyes [janakisstory.wordpress.com]
QUOTE:
"He found all kinds of books: The Course in Miracles, all the Ken Keyes books, books by Ramana Maharshi, books by Richard Bandler, just to name a few. Many of the books had underlined sentences in them and contained notes in Katie’s handwriting."
...
" Another interesting piece of information was that Paul (Katie’s second husband), used to talk about how she was reading all the time in the early years."
_________________________________
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2009 07:23AM by The Anticult.
Its written in red, in the middle of the page, linked below.
Its about how one of the houses in Barstow, the basement was filled with boxes of books of this kind of material.
Now of course, the trained eye can see the direct copying, and slight modifcation of various techniques, as has been shown many times in this thread
For example, there was the identical copying of the Milton Erickson "cactus" stories, which also was referenced by Richard Bandler many times.
That was written into A Cry In The Desert, at the end of the book, on page 211:
Byron Katie tells Christin that someone named David is cured of his cancer, and that he is out in the desert collecting and preserving rare cactus, and is the cactus man.
That is literally taken right from Dr. Milton Erickson's books and stories.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Its very obvious that BK directly copied material from many sources, and then somewhat customized it for herself, and later disguised it more and more, while acting like she made it all up herself.
And The School for The Work, is a hard-core LGAT seminar, who's components are directly copied from many other LGAT seminars, that is just reality, anyone with any experience in LGAT's sees that literally in seconds. Its an LGAT, done right by the book.
And if one looks at what Byron Katie is doing, it literally is a synthesis of those writers mentioned below. The most important one, is Richard Bandler, who was one of the founders of NLP, and one of the main people who wrote up how Dr. Milton Erickson did his conversational Ericksonian hypnotherapy, which is a very sophisticated form of Storytelling.
To the trained eye, its very obvious that Byron Katie does a customized version of those exact techniques, which has been proven and explained many times in this thread.
And the way to re-engineer beliefs in people, using advanced NLP, is to use "stories" with embedded metaphorical meanings. That is a covert way to modify people's belief systems without people even knowing its happening, as they are often encoded in "stories" in people's minds.
Changing people's "stories" is changing people's beliefs, that is why all these LGAT's want to change your Story, and replace it with THEIR Story.
The Official Byron Katie Story is the Gospel, and you are supposed to believe it on faith. (that is called a Sky-Hook belief).
Then her Cockroach Story, becomes an Open Loop, and she connects dozens and hundreds of other Nested Loop Stories, which slowly modify how a person perceives actual reality.
That is all very well explained in advanced NLP hypnosis materials that are available, ask Byron Katie's close friend Stever Robbins, he teaches and knows all about these methods in great detail. Stever Robbins also has worked with Richard Bandler personally many times. Its a small world after all.
Its very brilliantly designed, when targeted at a "spiritual" audience, as they generally don't have training in those techniques of belief modification of groups of people. For those with that training, its painfully obvious.
____________________________________
Ken Keyes [janakisstory.wordpress.com]
QUOTE:
"He found all kinds of books: The Course in Miracles, all the Ken Keyes books, books by Ramana Maharshi, books by Richard Bandler, just to name a few. Many of the books had underlined sentences in them and contained notes in Katie’s handwriting."
...
" Another interesting piece of information was that Paul (Katie’s second husband), used to talk about how she was reading all the time in the early years."
_________________________________
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2009 07:23AM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) internet sock-puppets
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 01, 2009 07:05AM
TarSpiel:
The information is "old hat" on this message board and thread.
See [www.culteducation.com]
LGAT liabilities:
1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.
2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.
3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.
4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.
5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.
6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.
7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.
8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.
9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.
10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.
11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.
12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.
13. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.
Groups were determined to be dangerous when:
1. Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.
2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.
3. Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.
4. Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2009 07:06AM by rrmoderator.
The information is "old hat" on this message board and thread.
See [www.culteducation.com]
LGAT liabilities:
1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.
2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.
3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.
4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.
5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.
6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.
7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.
8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.
9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.
10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.
11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.
12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.
13. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.
Groups were determined to be dangerous when:
1. Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.
2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.
3. Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.
4. Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2009 07:06AM by rrmoderator.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Sparky
()
Date: September 01, 2009 08:57AM
TarSpiel, as another who has studied religion (I had planned at college to enter the ministry but had a change of heart) as such I can believe and appreciate you read Tolle and never went to his seminars. Makes sense. I've readmore than enough crap on cults and even world religions and never trekked to Mecca or took a HAI seminar (I prefer my clothing on, thank you).
I think you may be better served to start a new thread such as "Eckhart Tolle discussion: Theology, Philosophy or Total Crap?".
With this current thread, people are asking is Eckart Tolle and Byron Katie legit. I think they are not and it is all for the money and for self-enrichment.
I do not wish to see you get banned from the board and I have seen absolutely no signs of this from rrmoderator. rrmoderator always gives written warnings. I do not see that being aimed at you at this time.
Start a new thread.
I think you may be better served to start a new thread such as "Eckhart Tolle discussion: Theology, Philosophy or Total Crap?".
With this current thread, people are asking is Eckart Tolle and Byron Katie legit. I think they are not and it is all for the money and for self-enrichment.
I do not wish to see you get banned from the board and I have seen absolutely no signs of this from rrmoderator. rrmoderator always gives written warnings. I do not see that being aimed at you at this time.
Start a new thread.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Forgiveness solipsism
Posted by:
Meadow
()
Date: September 01, 2009 09:16PM
Quote
The Anticult
The tone sounds basically very similar to the Kassy/Anatta/skepticalrepublican sock-puppetry.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Kassy's hobby [forum.culteducation.com]
And I would like to add Makepeace to this queue [forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
TarSpiel
()
Date: September 01, 2009 10:43PM
Quote
Sparky
I think you may be better served to start a new thread such as "Eckhart Tolle discussion: Theology, Philosophy or Total Crap?".
Start a new thread.
Sparky...you may have misread my posts. I'm not interested in Eckhart Tolle at all. I'm interested in Byron Katie, and specifically if she and the work are legit.
I think they are, at least at their core. I'm a little iffy about some of the seminars and the business wing of the enterprise, but essentially I think that the work can achieve some profound results.
Which is exactly why I don't understand people on here calling me a "sock-puppet". I've already told them I disagree with them. But meh, whatever.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) internet sock-puppets
Posted by:
TarSpiel
()
Date: September 01, 2009 10:47PM
Quote
rrmoderator
TarSpiel:
2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience
This is the one that stands out the most to me. The breakthroughs people experience are temporary, and real lasting change has to take time. But definitely that part of the LGAT program rings like a bell in regards to the BK vids.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) boxes of books in the basement
Posted by:
TarSpiel
()
Date: September 01, 2009 10:50PM
Quote
The Anticult
There appears to be some new information posted on the Janaki blog?
Its written in red, in the middle of the page, linked below.
Its about how one of the houses in Barstow, the basement was filled with boxes of books of this kind of material.
Now of course, the trained eye can see the direct copying, and slight modifcation of various techniques, as has been shown many times in this thread
So which is it? She had a whole basement full of Ken Keyes' books from time immemorial, or she was given one of his books at the halfway house?
Hard to decide, since both claims are based on hearsay.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.