Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Meadow ()
Date: August 07, 2009 05:11PM

I found a very recent interview between Byron Katie and someone called Mary E. Allen, who calls herself ‘America’s Inner Peace Coach’. [lifecoachmary.com]

BK starts out with her usual love bombing and says to Mary: “Reading your website, everything around you is authentic, there are no catches in it, no hidden stuff. I can’t tell you how I appreciate that Mary”. The interesting thing is this: why would BK be focused on there being no catches and no hidden stuff, why would that be the first thing she would notice? Perhaps BK needs to turn this one around: “I am full of catches and there is a lot of hidden stuff”. Funny to see how she gives herself away immediately, within the first 2 minutes of the interview.

A bit later on BK does a session with someone who has issues around her relationship to a man. It was one of the most confusing sessions I have ever heard. BK puts word into this persons mouth, she leads her on and gives a very clear demonstration of how she forbids her own facilitators to work with people. The session is nothing short of a (very poorly performed) therapeutic session.

At a certain moment, when they are discussing goals, BK actually says: “I just seem to do really well with commitments, better than a lot of people that are good at it”. Is she comparing herself to other people? I thought that was against her own rules, I thought she has people signing codes of ethics and disclaimers to prevent that (amongst other things).

Towards the end Mary asks BK: “Do you ever experience emotions like anger or frustration or overwhelm , like any? “ And again, it is so interesting to hear how BK completely ignores this question and makes a detour to talk about something else.

In the end, right before BK squeezes in her marketing rap about the school, the turnaround house and her website, she makes this incredible arrogant statement: “Doing the work does to the mind what mankind has always wanted”.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Cruz ()
Date: August 07, 2009 08:33PM

Quote
scrambledeggs
Even if the cockroach really did crawl over Byron Katie's foot, compare this "awakening" side by side with the stories of Suzanne Segal [www.nonduality.com] and Jill Bolte Taylor [blog.ted.com]. There was a MEDICAL explanation for their "spiritual awakening" experiences: Suzanne Segal died of a brain tumor and Jill Bolte Taylor survived a massive stroke.

Did Byron Katie have a legitimate spiritual awakening or was her "stroke of insight" simply a business strategy?

from an earlier post (April 12, 2009): ... my friend recalls being rather surprised when the very first BK book came out, several years after Katie’s alleged experience and quite some time into their friendship. For, prior to this publication, all this time not a cockroach had been mentioned. Not even a hint. The cockroach made its debut when Katie first wrote her story (or had it written, I'm not sure). When she asked Katie about it, Katie replied: “How do I know my people weren’t ready for that (part of the story) yet? Well …, I didn’t tell them”. Maybe she just forgot about it, and then it all came back.

in short: I cannot know about this being a business strategy or not, but the fact is that the cockroach first appeared EIGHT years after the alleged incident.

Byron Katie, Nog by Rudy Wurlitzer, Metamorphosis Franz Kafka
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 07, 2009 11:46PM

If one looks at the trail of evidence, one can see that her Story about her "enlightenment experience" has been modified over the years, especially before around 1998 or so. They were fine-tuning the Story.
But to the trained-eye, its simply a "Story", that is all it is. A very carefully constructed, multi-layered story.

For example, Werner Erhard also claimed spontaneous enlightenment, going over a bridge one day.
So the "spontaneous enlightenment" is an old Story, and its been told and sold many times.

The fact that the cockroach Story is UNCHECKABLE, is well constructed, is ambiguous and is loaded with metaphors, points to the fact it was very carefully designed.
The cockroach image is meant to trigger DISGUST, as that is a primary emotion, and once you hear the cockroack story, you NEVER forget it. Its the "hook" where all the other open-loop stories hang from.

And its also based on other metaphorical "transformations" in literature, like The Metamorphosis By Franz Kafka, and later her own version of "Nog" by Rudy Wurlitzer.
In The Metamorphosis By Franz Kafka, Gregor wakes up in bed to discover his "transformation" into a cockroach.
The Naked Lunch by William S. Burroughs...is like an opiate drug-addicts consciousness (Byron Katie also claims an opiate addiction to codeine).Burroughs worked as a cockroach exterminator...


Byron Katie, Nog by Rudy Wurlitzer, Metamorphosis Franz Kafka [forum.culteducation.com]

Nog's Quest [forum.culteducation.com]

Its all simply a very carefully constructed Story, loaded with multiple layers of meaning and purpose, which forms the basis of the conversational hypnotherapy style of Storytelling that Byron Katie is an expert at.




Quote
Meadow
Quote
scrambledeggs
Even if the cockroach really did crawl over Byron Katie's foot, compare this "awakening" side by side with the stories of Suzanne Segal [www.nonduality.com] and Jill Bolte Taylor [blog.ted.com]. There was a MEDICAL explanation for their "spiritual awakening" experiences: Suzanne Segal died of a brain tumor and Jill Bolte Taylor survived a massive stroke.

Did Byron Katie have a legitimate spiritual awakening or was her "stroke of insight" simply a business strategy?

That is a good point scrambledeggs, it might be a business strategy, or a carefully studying of various materials, followed by a decision of BK to start an entirely new business venue. It might as well be her best kept secret. Who knows, perhaps even those who are really close to her don't know about this.

Byron Katie, America’s Inner Peace Coach http://lifecoachmary.com
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 08, 2009 12:30AM

There are at least 3 Byron Katie interviews on that Life Coach Mary site, going back 5 years.
[www.lifecoachmary.com]

Will check out the BK audio later, but that Life Coach Mary website is absolutely LOADED with sales and persuasion tech. Its loaded top to bottom.
Even just starting with the basic sales stuff, email harvesting, daily tips to put her in people's MINDS everyday, "free" chapters of books called "gifts".
That is called RECIPROCITY in social influence and sales.

Her text is loaded with all sorts of the same types of permissive and persuasive language patterns.
She is using Social Proof in her language patterns, and everything else under the sun.

Life Coach Mary is also upselling people to "six-figure" coaching trainings working 3 days a week, charging 6 times more. So that means they would try to charge people more than $600 a hour. They will charge you whatever they can get out of you.
Try to get a "price" out of them, just try! They won't give a price, they will "interview" you first. Their price is HOW MUCH MONEY YOU GOT?? That is their price.


Life Coach Mary is a self-professed expert in SALES which means persuasion. She says she MASTERED SALES, which means she has studied advanced sales and persuasion.
The most advanced sales, is to present yourself to clients as people's "friend", that is a fact, that is what they teach, its very subtle stuff. [www.lifecoachmary.com]
She has gone through the entire Tony Robbins LGAT system of numerous seminars, which uses many of the exact same advanced persuasion techniques being discussed.
She has also attended the Byron Katie School. Someone like Life Coach Mary, is someone who would understand most of the Tech being used at these seminars.

Life Coach Mary, is just another in a long line of "Life Coaches", who have seen that Byron Katie is the trendy thing right now.
When Byron Katie says there is no hidden stuff, and no catches, what she is saying is that its not OBVIOUS stuff, like some of these other lower-end people. Sophisticated sales and advanced persuasion are more subtle, friendly, and even invisible to most people.

The most advanced sales techniques, are based around being the clients "best friend". They literally know how to engineer that, and press those buttons in people. Its all there in the advanced sales manuals and methods which are taught everywhere these days.
Some people press the Divine Guru button in clients, others press the Best Friend button, some do both, and press many other buttons at the same time.
These are very smart and sophisticated people, who are experts in sales and subtle persuasion, that is the real skill-set. That is what brings in the $600 a hour for "coaching".
[www.beyondsixfiguresforcoaches.com]

Life Coach Mary uses NLP hypnotic language patterns right here...
[www.lifecoachmary.com]
QUOTE: "Step Into the Experience of Coaching...Imagine a relationship with someone..."

That is literally taken right out of the books from Richard Bandler..."step into the experience"...that is to take someone into an Associated state of mind in their imagination (like they are really there in the present moment)...she would have picked that up from Tony Robbins, who got it from the NLP stuff. Its a direct copy.

Check out the endless list of tactics, and techniques being used on wannabe "coaches" by Mary E. Allen, Life Coach Mary.
Coaches, coaching the wannabe coaches. Note the use of the code word..."debts". They know their demographic, people in debt to their eyeballs from "coaching training". Its amazing how they do it.
_______________________________
[www.beyondsixfiguresforcoaches.com]
How to Make 3–6 Times Your Hourly Rate, Have
MORE Coaching Clients, and Make Over SIX
FIGURES While Working Only 3 Days a Week!”
___________________________________






Quote
Meadow
I found a very recent interview between Byron Katie and someone called Mary E. Allen, who calls herself ‘America’s Inner Peace Coach’. [lifecoachmary.com]

BK starts out with her usual love bombing and says to Mary: “Reading your website, everything around you is authentic, there are no catches in it, no hidden stuff. I can’t tell you how I appreciate that Mary”. The interesting thing is this: why would BK be focused on there being no catches and no hidden stuff, why would that be the first thing she would notice? Perhaps BK needs to turn this one around: “I am full of catches and there is a lot of hidden stuff”. Funny to see how she gives herself away immediately, within the first 2 minutes of the interview.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Meadow ()
Date: August 11, 2009 05:35PM

Life Coach Mary is very, very scary. Her [www.beyondsixfiguresforcoaches.com] reminded me strongly of Igor Ledochowski’s aggressive marketing strategy. She uses exactly the same format, layout, fonts and colors. It figures that BK hooks up with someone like that. She loves to jump on people’s wagon, especially if she deems them powerful or influential. She tried the same with Dr. Jill Bolte. Here is a letter that BK wrote to Bolte and posted on her weblog:

Quote

Dear Dr. Jill,
When I saw the video of your wonderful description of your stroke of insight, I recognized your experience immediately. Although I didn't have a stroke or other physical triggering event, one morning in 1986 I died as a suffering 43-yr-old woman and woke up in a state of joy that has never left me. At first there was only laughter, as a wordless inquiry burned up every concept that I had lived by. I no longer believed my thoughts-or, as you might say it, the output of my left brain lost its hold on me forever.
In time the inquiry took a form that allows me to offer it to others and, when I saw that it's possible for anyone to live as I do, it became my full-time job to facilitate the process of what I call The Work. I have written about this in several bestselling books, and I would love it if you could visit my website, www.thework.com, where there are videos that show me doing The Work with a variety of people. I'm curious to know your reaction and hope we can meet in person someday.
Loving what is, and that would be you,
Katie

I am sure that she hoped that Bolte would take the bait and take her on board. From what I understand from Bolte’s response to BK, she gave her a polite ‘thanks but no thanks’. At least, I haven’t heard that they hooked up somewhere along the line.

I noticed how, without fail, BK applies her tactics, even in a short personal note: Love-bombing, self-promotion and imbedded hooks:

Quote

...and woke up in a state of joy that has never left me
Quote

...when I saw that it's possible for anyone to live as I do

How transparant!

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 11, 2009 09:52PM

A story from my college days:

One of the professors in the psychology department made us laugh. He told us what happened when, one day, he failed to screen his phone calls.

The incident happened the very early 1970s. The office phone rang. Professor X picked it up.

Someone who said he was a journalist was on the other end.

The reporter wanted Professor X, to explain why all those women were out there, burning their bras.

Professor X's common sense reply was, 'They probably find them uncomfortable.'

A day or two later, one of the professor's daughters phoned him.

'Dad, what are you doing? You''re quoted on the front page of the National Enquirer!'

(I think the UK equivalents are The Star and The Sun.)

Professor X never thought to ask who was interviewing him, or what would be done with his statement.

A friend of mine used to be an administrative assistant for a faculty member at the local medical school. Part of her job was shielding her boss from reporters. He was involved in cardiology research. He was sick and tired of being misquoted by newspaper journalists. He eschewed quick fame, with all its risks and instead reported his findings to peer reviewed medical journals.

On another note, epyx wrote this in response to the person who had done Sedona and found the drawbacks for her outweighed the gains.

Quote

http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,6223,75405#msg-75405

Quote

Quote:
formerreleaser
After releasing for so long, I feel like a woolen cloth has been pulled over my awareness and that the better parts of me have been grayed out.

FormerReleaser: This is exactly the long-term outcome I would expect for Releasers. In my understanding, SM/RT is primarily about non-attachment. It pathologises emotions - "Feelings Only Lie" - and views them as a pesky barrier to feeling good. If one practices non-attachment long enough in this context, then one must surely end up feeling chronically emotionally-detached. The result would be a flat existence without the vibrance and emotional colour we normally expect out of life.

The thing that annoys me most about SM/RT is that it bases itself in one or two Buddhist practices, but it divorces them from their ethical system and philosophical underpinnings. It invokes acceptance in a weak way, even going so far as to re-formulate acceptance in terms of non-attachment! I see releasing as only a partial, trivial response to the problems of imperfection and impermanence in human experience, and ultimately, a response that will leave adherents unsatisfied.

Who would Byron Katie be with her Marketing Story?
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 12, 2009 03:57AM

That message from Byron Katie above about the "stroke", is her standard method.
She is always trying to attach herself with well-known people, and also constantly using name-dropping. It does seem to be more than just cross-marketing for business, she does really crave that validation.
This other lady became famous, and she is trying to attach herself to her. But also, that paragraph is a form of advertising for BK.

As far as BK's little paragraph above, just try to read that through once without stopping.

Its not possible. It confuses you, you have to go back and re-read it several times, trying to make sense of it. That writing shows a very high level of technique.

And Byron Katie is repeating her marketing Story, for the millionth time. Who would Byron Katie be with her Marketing Story, she has repeated a million times, to anyone who will listen?
Its really beyond laughable. She gets to sell her Story for millions, but you are supposed to drop your story?
Why doesn't she drop her Byron Katie Story? (because that is what she makes the big bucks selling. Its all a Story, she sells Stories, that's it).

Who would Byron Katie be with her Marketing Story?


And BK shows her incredible balls, to claim again, she is in a state of permanent JOY. As if. How can someone be so dishonest with themselves and others to claim something ridiculous like that? Just ask any real psychologist about that, and their eyebrows will hit the ceiling. Its ridiculous.
But its a Big Claim of so-called "enlightenment" of permanent "bliss consciousness", and they know people in pain eat that stuff up. It sells.

Notice the powerful language....the left-brain was lost FOREVER. She is trying to shut down people's critical thinking minds forever, if she can.
She likes that word, forever, and life-long, which is how long she is trying to get people involved with her system. So one has to use self-defense to block those techniques.


IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever [forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2009 04:02AM by The Anticult.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 12, 2009 09:47AM

Its not enough to have Guru Purinima Day--the day when Hindus honor their gurus.

They should add a Caregiver-of-the-Guru Day, too.

We make the mistake of focusing on the glamourous enlightenment stories, and forget that often, the people who 'woke up' went through a phase, sometimes temporary, sometimes permanent, of needing care providers.

Jean Bolte-Taylor was reportedly cared for after her stroke by her mother and it was her mom who ensured that Bolte-Taylor had that long and important period of rest, at home.

Lets show some appreciation for Bolte-Taylor's mom.

Regarding BK, according to the story of her cockroach facilitated awakening...one she was in a halfway house.

Two, according to Cry in the Desert, BK went through a long period of suffering while she reportedly adjusted to her awakening, during which her husband took care of her.

And the celebrated Ramana Maharshi reportedly was cared for in his cave by a local householder who checked in on him, brought him food, and later built a simple ashram for him.

Its not enough just to thrill to the people who woke up.

Before they became famous, ask who took care of them while they were going through their growing pains and the crisis/transition periods in their lives?

Light a stick of incense and hang out some fresh marigold garlands in honor of the care providers, without whom many would never have made it through their ordeals to become famous, whether as teachers--or anything else.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: greg ham ()
Date: August 12, 2009 10:32AM

Did Byron Katie have a legitimate spiritual awakening or was her "stroke of insight" simply a business strategy?


30000$ to spend time with her......katie is a con

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: August 12, 2009 06:06PM

Dr Bolte Taylor is a neuroscientist who, despite the pleasurable associations she may have experienced with her stroke, would have been well aware of the fact that she had suffered a devastating brain event.

Apparently it took her eight years to recover from this event and she would have needed enormous medical and personal care to support her during her recovery.

Dr Bolte Taylor says that she became a neuroscientist in an attempt to understand the problems of a sibling diagnosed as schizophrenic.
Someone willing to put in so much of her time to study the neurological suffering of others would be highly unlikely to endorse a system such as BK's that attempts to induce the causes and bring on such a brain event in otherwise normally functioning people.

In fact the notion of someone setting up a for-profit business to sell this system of inducing devastating brain events in otherwise functioning people is grotesque. That the result of this system, an irreversible devastating brain event, is then touted as some kind of divine super-development, is nothing short of insanity.

Today, with the modern medical aids of EEG's and fMRI imagings, it is accepted, even by the people experiencing such events, that most mystical visions are caused by abnormal stresses in the brain, a form of temporal lobe epilepsy.

I would definitely endorse the quote from epyx and apply it to BK's product which is another very superficial and potentially dangerous treatment of 'the problems of imperfection and impermanence in human experience':

"The thing that annoys me most about SM/RT is that it bases itself in one or two Buddhist practices, but it divorces them from their ethical system and philosophical underpinnings. It invokes acceptance in a weak way, even going so far as to re-formulate acceptance in terms of non-attachment! I see releasing as only a partial, trivial response to the problems of imperfection and impermanence in human experience, and ultimately, a response that will leave adherents unsatisfied."

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