Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: July 08, 2009 12:54AM

'How fascinating that this thread about BYRON KATIE has somehow gotten "turned around" onto me.'


I have no personal interest in you at all.
It was your statement, 'Go for it with all you've got' erroneously attributed to Kassy that I pointed out.

I certainly wouldn't waste my time attempting to change your feelings, thoughts, reactions and behaviours.
As I said before I know how difficult it is to have any control over my own let alone anyone elses. My interest here is solely Byron Katie and her nefarious works.

I assume from your reference to 'random' that you suspect I might be Stuart in another guise. Sorry, wrong gender, wrong nationality, wrong world-view and wrong beard.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: kassy ()
Date: July 08, 2009 01:04AM

"""""APA" is a "cult"?

Very bizarre claim, which makes you seem somewhat like a Scientologist denouncing the mental health profession.

You appear to consistently value subjective experience above objective reality in your long posts defending Katie. """"

I don't deny objective reality, I deny that subjective experience is invalid. I've had endless arguments with people also about this. (lol) Because they argue that any subjective spiritual experience is irrational, and is invalid even for that person.

But what about someone having a bad experience in a "cult" is not subjective? Or what about defining someone as an "emotional" abuser is not subjective? Which is my point, it is still valid to consider someone an emotional abuser and leave that situation. It is still valid to rely on subjective experience.

As to the APA being a cult, I was being a bit tongue and cheek. But I should add, that just because scientology is critical of psychiatry does not invalidate, or discredit being critical of psychiatry for anyone else, for all time. I'm critical because they claim that these diagnoses are "objective", when they are made up ways of categorizing patterns that are seen in human behavior.

This can be very useful, and if psychiatry didn't tell anybody who came to it, that there's is the only option, otherwise you could kill yourself or need to be hospitalized, which is often not true, and was not remotely true in my case. What did they base it on? Answers I gave in a 5 minute session. Is that science? Now, how the drugs work is based on biochemistry and neurophysiology, that is scientific. But the pathologies are not. Admitedly.

My neurophysiology teacher confirmed this already held belief of mine. The drugs do help people, they do make people feel better, prevent suicides in some cases (in other cases friends I've known have ended up dependent on them, basically addicted), but fear tactics should not be used. Again, a case where people should be treated like adult consumers. We do not live in a totalitarian state, or shouldn't. So the consumer population, the citizenry should be treated as adults. Even if they have emotional, psychological issues, no matter how severe.

"""Your attempt to blame those abused by LGATs for their own injuries follows a similar pattern seen on other threads when proponents for such groups post here.
Typical comments from such folks range from "It's not for everybody" to "They chose to join and continue and be a part of it. They are adults making their own decisions...responsible for their choices."

Of course this completely discounts the power of coercive persuasion. """

As far as blaming those who were abused by LGATS, I'm simply not. You're free to see it that way. If there was a situation that we want to change whatever it is, we're going to have to take responsibility for actions eventually. I don't mean "not taking responsibility" in a pejorative sense. And I'm speaking from experience as far as abusive relationships, abusive situations that were "emotionally" abusive. But I could only get out of them, when I started to realize that the abuser had actually no power over me. Then I got out. Then I was free.

The "victim" is not to blame, but in a situation where they are not seeing this, that they are infact free to leave, it's not the victims fault, but it's the victim's beliefs about themselves and the situation that are keeping them there. If they want out, the most effective thing would be to get free of those ideas. Because if not, even if they do leave, or the abuser leaves them, or they get kicked out of hte cult, they might seek another one.

So they are ultimately responsible for how much freedom they allow themselves. But I realize that if you don't believe you are free, then you are not free in your own experience. I've had this experience. The point is it's possible to not be swayed by abusers, or charismatic leaders and realize one is free to make one's own choices. I realize though it is not trivial to come to this conclusion when most institutions, our entire upbringing, the commercial media would like us to think we are not independent.

Even if Byron Katie were an abuser, a manipulator, a charismatic cult leader, her 4 questions would undermine her power. She would be better off convincing them that she is a messiah with magical abilities. Even pull a David Copperfield. But if you convince people to question their own thoughts about themselves and others, and they actually do it, then they might realize they don't have to take ---- from anyone. (is it o.k to cuss?)

As far as coercive persuasion, that is a moot point in this discussion, because coercion by definition involves physical manipulation and violence. No one has made that claim for Byron Katie and her organization. We're dealing with psychological persuasion.

The kind of psychological persuasion I've been exposed to, had used on me, the abusive kind. Is to reel me in, by being nice to me, and then treating me like dirt? Many of us had that experience. If I didn't believe I needed that person's love and affection, I wouldn't have been prey to such manipulation. So i definitely did consent to my own emotional abuse. No one physically coerced me. So ultimately, I was responsible. And when I realized my responsibility, I never suffered anymore those kind of psychological manipulations. I definitely was manipulating myself in those situations, they were just a voice to my own manipulation of myself. If I wasn't manipulating myself psychologically, no one else could either.

"""In this self-serving construct ironically everyone must take responsibility for what they do with the glaring exception of LGATs and their leaders. And never mind how they hurt people through their practices and programs.

What seems to run consistently through many of the posts by LGAT apologists is a kind of self-centered, obsessive focus on their own subjective experience, with an almost total absence of empathy or even sympathy for LGAT causalities.

It seems for these folks the mantra is, "It makes me feel good and that's all that matters."

Frankly, this comes across as a narcissistic delusion, facilitated by LGAT leaders through their assorted programs.""""

First, I'm not an LGAT apologist, I've never even been to one, I hardly have an idea what they are, I don't particularly have an interest in them. So to slap this label on me is unfair, and demeaning and not amenable to an adult conversation, dude!You are talking to me, not some generalized stereotype in your head.

One thing I think you miss, is that a charismatic cult leader (one who is self-serving and manipulative), a dictator, a domestic abuser, there is no difference. They are the same phenomena just a difference of scale.

You are right, the leader, the abuser is responsible for his actions and thoughts. For instance to take a cliche example. Stalin was responsible for telling people to do something that he suspected they would do, so he is still responsible for the murders of tons of people, or the starving of others. But the perpetrators themselves, the Soviet soldier that raped a German woman cannot rely on that stalin and his ideology made me do it. He did it. (even if it was offical policy and encouraged) Or Nazi soldiers at a concentration camp.

There responsibility is not mitigated by that someone else told them to do it, or they were inspired by a charismatic leader even if there psychological beliefs about themselves made them think they were not free to make other choices. Same with the cult example of Aum and Japan and the two members of his organization that he convinced to release serin gas. They are 100% responsible for releasing the serin gas. The leader is responsible for trying manipulate people into doing it. The actual perpetrators could have said no. So they commited murder.

I also look at it the other way, valuing subjective experience and lack of empathy are opposites. If I value my own subjective experience I value others subjective experience. I don't, I don't. So yes, I value people's subjective experiences and even where they've been harmed by others. That is empathy.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 08, 2009 01:07AM

Why are you getting pissy, "Stoic"? (Go ahead and deny you are.)

What is your actual purpose in being here?

For someone who protests they have "no interest in [me] at all", you seem quite interested in engaging me. That shows at least some interest.

So it seems that at least re that, you have not been exactly truthful.

Also, I merely said that "perhaps" a certain random person was floating around in Byron Katie waters lately and mentioned more than one possible place. Strange you would feel compelled to protest that.

It's not exactly out of the realm of possibility for people to shapeshift any number of ways on the 'net.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2009 01:17AM by helpme2times.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 08, 2009 01:39AM

What Janaki described being done to her in the BK organization fits the profile of witch hunting very much more closely.

BK now has access to Twitter.

She can do a continual IV drip to keep her 'Tweeties' attentive.

Rick Ross and Anticult dont have Twitter.

If you dislike what is written here, you dont even have to log on and read it.

All is is just ONE, repeat ONE website. And does not do pop up ads outside of itself.

And, to repeat, Rick does not put himself on Twitter.

To participate in discussions here, all one must do is (for FREE!!!) voluntarily register and agree to the terms of use.

That's all.

Doesnt sound like a witch hunt. (Note, the motif seems popular. Kassy referred to the Arthur Miller play, The Crucible, which was about the Salem trials of the 1690s)

In fact, we do not hear much about actual witch hunts being disrupted by people who got tired of the terror and injustice of it all.

But this attempt to offer information about unethical uses of what started out as techniques of medical hypnosis is being constantly disrupted by people who could if they wished, remain in BK related social venues with persons who agree with them and never have a minutes worth of discomfort.

This venue exists so that persons who want to educate themselves about methods of covert influence can do so.

We are discussing entrepreneurs/euses who are technology savvy, who have tried hard to control and suppress independent discussions of their careers.

These entrepreneurs are not in the ranks of the poor and oppressed. They enjoy extensive social connections, have access to current media technology, speak the language of spirituality and healing, but are using what I consider the very opposite of spirituality---marketing tecniques that operate by instilling and then maintaining craving ---qualities that actual spiritual practice would encourage, not disrupt.

Worse, these entrepreneurs encourage us to confuse mere craving with a sense of purpose in life.

The two are different.

The entreprenuers are not licensed or legally accountable to practice psychotherapy, and and encourage devotees to recruit in social venues where this kind of marketing outreach and recruitment should not take place---such as 12 Step meetings, where a BK outreacher hit on me when I was in a weepy moment and tried to get me to come to a BK event.

The devotees of these media moguls show up here at and try to generate noise and impede one of the few independent venues where one can discuss the BK media marketing phenomenon without the discussion being controlled by that media empire.

My dislike of BK is that she operates on disinformation (her stuff is NOT Buddhadharma and its isnt cognitive behavioral therapy).

Two, she does what no responsible therapist ever should do..she gets people hooked on her personality and discloses information about her private life that no therapist would ever disclose about theirs. I really dont wanna see pictures of the house in Ojai (vide the LA Times story) hear details about her married life or who was at her and her husbands dinner parties.

And that story of the bed rattling in the morning from an earthquake and her thinking its mother earth and its all wonderful. Thats BS. Any Califiornian will jump the hell out of bed and make sure they or the landlord has earthquake insurance thats up to date.

Three, she is all about taking responsiblity for ones life, yet she didnt use her talent or energy to put her ass in a clinical program, do supervised hours of training and get tested and licensed to practice, and is under no obligation to do continuing education or carry malpractice insurance.

Legions of therapists have taken exactly this responsiblity, and dont whine about it.

Instead, if you go to one of the BK events, you have to sign away your right to litigate or mediate in event of being harmed.

Finally, discussing a different guru, Colin Wilson made this interesting remark--and he mentions Ojai, too. Wilson tells how the Theosophical Society selected and trained Jiddu Krishnamurti to be the savior of mankind.

This campaign began in the early 1900s--no internet and the campaign began in the years when newpapers were the only mass media. Radio broadcasting didnt begin until later in this phase.


"For the next 17 years, an enormous organization was built up around Krishnamurti--it was called the Star of the East--and a large stadium was built for him in Sydney, Australia, from which he could proclaim his message to the world.

Real estate was important. Note the locations.

"Other sites were purchased in the Ojai Valley, in southern California, and in the Rishi Valley in India, while a Dutch follower gave Krishnamurti the use of a castle in Holland.

Wilson gives us the punchline:

"It is a sobering example of how easily a messiah can be promoted, and then foisted on a passive and expectant public."

(Rogue Messiahs by Colin Wilson, page 144)

(Krishnamurti eventually spent a good deal of time living at Ojai and the place has become closely associated with him. The climate in Ojai was good for his brother, who suffered TB, and also afforded privacy. , Krishnamurti lived at Ojai for a great deal of the time and the place has become closely A school for children, based on his principles, is reportedly still there and the place probably retains a pleasent atmosphere of good will making it attractive to seekers and spiritual tourists)

Now, one can say 'But so and so doenst refer to themselves as a messiah.'

Well, note how people behave around the person.

Lawrence Shainberg, in his memoir, Ambivalent Zen, gives a hilarious description of Krishnamurti and an audience. Krishnamurti renounced the role the Theosophists set for him and said he was no guru and that truth was a pathless land.

But..he continued to attract audiences. Shainberg witnessed Krishnamurti sitting on a chair facing an audience and kept silent for what seemed an eternity. People rapturously gazed at him, drinking it all in.

Though Krishnamurti said he was no guru, he was being treated as one. And he continued to accept handsome lodgings and support from devotees for the remainder of his life.

You can be a guru or messiah figure yet never call yourself one.

How do people behave toward you?

A guru or messiah figure is someone in whom others find their hopes and dreams mirrored.

Any suggestion that the guru or messiah figure is merely using techniques shatters the mirror. The devotees panic for they lose access to their ideals.

And...that is why the existence of one single single independent discussion venue such as RRcom seems intolerable to so many.

It may be too that recruiting new devotees is a way to wipe the fog from the mirror when doubts arise about the guru.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2009 01:59AM by corboy.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Carlos B ()
Date: July 08, 2009 02:52AM

It's a bit difficult to dive into a 205 page thread but I want to make an observation about Eckhart Tolle. I'm just beginning to look at him and I notice he has a very similar hook to Andrew Cohen - 'join me in the noble cause of advancing the evolution of consciousness.' This kind of stuff is particularly pernicious because the initiate is made to feel responsible for the development of a higher cause which leads to massive guilt should someone begin break free from the cult. Many come away drowning in shame and believing they simply weren't up to the task dropped onto them by the cult leader.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: July 08, 2009 03:21AM

'It may be too that recruiting new devotees is a way to wipe the fog from the mirror when doubts arise about the guru.'

New salesmen are always sent out to endlessly repeat the sales spiel. It might get some sales but it definitely cements the spiel in the salesman's head. Fake gurus are usually very sharp salesmen and would use such a tactic.
BK and every other fake guru uses it because it works on the recruiter and his prospective mark.

'Any suggestion that the guru or messiah figure is merely using techniques shatters the mirror. The devotees panic for they lose access to their ideals.'

The majority of panicking devotees start an immediate hunt for the next guru. Apparently when Osho finally hit the buffers, India was awash with his devotees desperate to find a replacement. Which suggests to me that the relationship between guru and devotee is rather more complex than simply being one where a complete innocent is corrupted by an evil mastermind guru. It would also follow that devotees of fake gurus might need to work at being less vulnerable if they wish to avoid being serially addicted to following the next plausible pretender.

rrmoderators link above on coercive persuasion seems to suggest that it is an existing vulnerability in the personality of the devotee that is manipulated by the guru and that the whole process from entry level to total control is a filtering device to take control of those most vulnerable to persuasion. The article also makes the point that the will of the devotee is not taken over in the sensational and lurid way made familiar in the media, which cheered me up no end. Perhaps there's hope for even the most addicted of us.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and distraction, deflection, denial
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 08, 2009 03:34AM

Quote: kassy
"Yeah, the School sounds stupid. I don't know how harmful it is though."

That comment by "Kassy" actually exposes her/his agenda very clearly.

First off, here is a person who is running massive apologetics and misdirection for the Byron Katie business, and they claim to have NOT even attended the Byron Katie 9-day LGAT seminar?
If you believe that, there is a bridge in Brooklyn that is also for sale.

The Byron KAtie 9-Day LGAT seminar, is what this thread is about.

So what is being done here is trying to play to people's reactions, by saying it "sounds stupid".
It doesn't sound stupid in the least. That is a deliberate MISDIRECTION.

Its a very complex, advanced, carefully planned out LGAT seminar, that has been designed and engineered for many years.
As proven in this thread, Byron Katie has COPIED dozens of LGAT techniques that have been used for decades by many people.

read the Byron Katie seminar disclaimer which includes a "death" clause.

Beware of the Byron Katie apologists, the first casualty is the truth, and they will lie their ass off, and create endless MISDIRECTION, to try to get you into that Byron Katie LGAT seminar.
Watch out for the BKI seminar salespeople.

[Byron Katie (the Work) and thought-disorders, inducing Dissociation] []

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: kassy ()
Date: July 08, 2009 04:34AM

Christa, first off some parts of your response were thoughtful.

However, I wonder about a few of the things you write. The one that really struck out at me was
"""First, the persuasion systems Katie uses are invisible to the uninformed, so your representations that you've made a free will choice cannot be relied on. """

What do you mean by invisible to the uninformed? That makes me think of magic, or the psychological tricks of the weirding way in Dune. It illicits images drawn from fiction. If you are referring to the way she speaks to people, as viewed on Youtube and Google videos. It seems a little obsessive and unhealthy to assume that there is some invisible persuasion method. I have noticed, and this is subjective so feel free to discount it, that people who get below superficial levels of thought have more persuasive power in their speech because their thoughts are more relevent and direct. I've noticed that with Barack Obama for instance. Our wondering minds dissipate the power of what we have to say. I've noticed that with Byron Katie as well, that her mind is very silent and clear and her speech potent. Her accounts of having an egoless experience and a quiet mind and a lack of suffering would accord with the persuasive power of her persona and speech. I strive to be silent and clear of mind so that my speech is equally potent. Are you referring to something else? What is the persuasion system you refer to? Inform me (lol)

"""You might experience benefits from the worksheets, and you might be one of the ones who doesn't get hooked into turning over your money and your mind to BKI. That's great for you, and if you want to seek psychic nourishment at the end of a spiked hook, that's your business. """

This whole that the 4 questions is a spiked hook, to me, I'm being quite honest, seems far fetched and insane. I'm much more inclined to believe she is manipulative and abusive (although I don't see a whole lot of proof, and require more) But I don't see any evidence that her book which is clearly written, it's not convoluted, it's simple in it's concepts, it's accessible. I don't see any thing about the 4 questions that leads to joining her organization. Other then that if you are inspired by the philosophy, you might join her cult-like, manipulative organization. It would be nice if you spoke about what you speculate is true as speculation, and what you know as true as certain. But not pretending that you know something that is not visible, is not proveable, is going on. For all we know she could be using magic or a mind control sattelite, or she can telepathically control minds. But we don't know that, we speculate that that is true. (lol)

"""Just as it's dangerous for a fish to seek nourishment at the end of fishhook, it's dangerous for spiritual seekers to confound bait with food. And it's even more dangerous for those deluded seekers to advertise to the public that bait IS food. 'Cause it's not. """

As poetic as that analogy sounds, I don't think really is very relevent to the process of being inspired by ideas. There is no metal spike in the 4 questions. (lol) And also quote Byron Katie where does she say that that is her aim with the 4 questions. Where is the secret communique about how she writes her books so that she can enslave humanity?

"""So someone writing about using cocaine 5 or 6 times might well say, yeah, I snorted this stuff up my nose, I've heard some bad things about it, but I felt great, on top of the world! I was able to stay at work till 3 am and get twice as much work done as the other people on the team. The clients are thrilled and I'm sure I'll get that promotion! And when I got home to my boyfriend -- the sex was !!!111!!!! """"

If your point is to ridicule something that you don't like, that's fine. But I prefer to engage in adult discussions. When you want to, feel free to respond.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: July 08, 2009 04:37AM

But this attempt to offer information about unethical uses of what started out as techniques of medical hypnosis is being constantly disrupted by people who could if they wished, remain in BK related social venues with persons who agree with them and never have a minutes worth of discomfort.

This venue exists so that persons who want to educate themselves about methods of covert influence can do so.
...the existence of one single single independent discussion venue such as RRcom seems intolerable to so many.
Beautifully stated. Thank you.

Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and distraction, deflection, denial
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 08, 2009 04:52AM

Its almost unbelievable what "Kassy" is trying to pull here, but believe it.

Ironically, Kassy putting all this stuff into writing, can be very useful, as this is what people are going to get from various Byron Katie "Facilitators" and seminar salespeople, and those who make money off the Byron Katie businesses for a LIVING.
They are trying to develop their Overcoming Objections skills, when people come to them with concerns and questions about what is going on in these seminars. Professionals in the field, spend a lot of time figuring out how to Overcome Objections to the sale, and even Innoculate these objections before they arise. []

At this point, there are many dozens of people who are making a lot of money selling the Byron Katie "Facilitating", which is just part of the coaching scam hysteria.
Telephone "coaching" is the easiest way for these folks to make serious money, they can do it from home, and they don't even need to pay long-distance anymore. They can Skype it.
They can charge $100 an hr from working out of their kitchen.
Some even charge up to $400 an hr in various coaching contracts, if they have some name recognition.

Its important to stick to the FACTS.
- the Byron Katie 4 Questions and her processes have absolutely ZERO psychological value. Read her own disclaimers.

- Kassy even has the gall to claim that "schizophrenia has alot to do with believing faulty stories." That is from someone who is literally indocrinated to the core with the Byron Katie system. This is someone who is full-time into The Work, that is obvious.

-Kassy states "On the Youtube and Google videos there is no evidence to my mind that she is fomenting worship but responding with her own form of clear thinking to people's troubles".
Again, more conscious misdirection. The Byron Katie system step by step grooms people and drags them into her system, one step at a time. Byron Katie "clear thinking"? What a joke. That sounds like something Carol Skolnick would say..."clear". Byron Katie has the most muddled and confused thinking, which creates confusion in people, on purpose.

- Turnarounds: Kassy does a complete Turnaround on medical science that deals with mental health. There are enormous levels of scientific work and studies that have gone into it. While Byron Katie is a complete ignoramous, with no knowledge whatsoever, and ZERO proof of anything. But Kassy tries to turn that around...
QUOTE: "and this fearful mentality of take the meds or commit suicide or get hospitalized. Who says? Where's the proof?"
Unbelievable she would try that, which is the targeting of those who are suicidal. But again, that displays the deep and total Byron Katie belief system, that The Work can cure mental illness, which is what they really believe.
That is why they put the "death clause" in the contracts, due to what is happening to people.

- The incredible dishonesty about how Byron Katie THROWS PEOPLE OUT OF HER SEMINARS, [] also betrays Kassy, when Kassy said the seminar "sounds stupid". This is the same pattern as before, when the BKI people lie and say they have not been to a BK seminar, but then show they know exactly what happens in the seminar. Yes, they will lie. Harsh, but true.

Bottom line, its not credible that Kassy is not totally indocrinated into the BKI system. Its not believable. To someone who has seen the LGAT people operate for ages, its very obvious what is being done.

This is the tough thing about dealing with these LGAT seminar companies.
The people who promote them and work at them, are very motivated, and they are often very clever, and they will tell falsehoods without blinking. They manipulate people to get them to attend seminars.
They withhold information.
They mislead, and misdirect.
They lie.

So a person has to make a judgement call based on the best available information.
When you hear a BKI person, or someone who says they are NOT with BKI, or Byron Katie, going on and on like Kassy, that is more than enough information to hang-up the phone.
Its really like extremely sophisticated telemarketing in a sense.
The LGAT salespeople, mix in personal anecdote, with confusing stories, and outright lies and misdirection.

QUOTE from Kassy: "Someone pointed the direction to peer review, scientific literature that Byron Katie's work has been shown to be effective at counseling."
That is a deliberate lie, she has mixed in. Sorry to be harsh, but this is not a game. Its an outight lie. There are ZERO studies, absolutely nothing. And Kassy knows that, or she would have provided the reference. Again, sorry to be harsh, but it is ESSENTIAL to spot the direct lies they mix into what they say.
Also, it contradicts what she was saying about it not being counselling, so its the standard trying to mess with your head approach they use.

And then Kassy tries to say there is nothing wrong with the release if liability? [] Are you kidding? It says the exact opposite of their advertising. And it is also the opposite of how a few minutes before that Kassy was saying that "stories" are related to schizophrenia. That is also a trick, to people with mental health issues to believe The Work can cure those problems. Its weasel words.
She then actually reveals something very telling...

QUOTE: " It would be stupid to go there and think I'm going to get treatment when I intend myself self-harm. I doubt really anyone is that stupid, but if they are, there's the liability agreement."

You see, this is how the LGAT people think. They think that those who are suicidal are "stupid". Meanwhile, BK constantly advertises her methods can help these very people. But if you are "stupid" and your Trauma gets triggered by the LGAT seminar, tough shit, get lost. They literally don't care if you end up dead, that is your problem.
The arrogance of the LGAT seminar people really is pathological.
Read the reports of these seminars, and they are full of people with mental health issues, that is by design, as they advertise.

As far as the Byron Katie promoters, its a similar pattern.
They put on an act, and PRETEND they are not a deeply indocrtinated Byron Katie person. But at the same time, they actually know EVERYTHING about Byron Katie, including her seminars. Which they say they have never attended. Same pattern, which was seen in the Guruphiliac forum recently.
More lies.

This is one of the main danger signs with cultish LGAT groups. There use of deception to try and get people to attend the seminar. That is all they want. To get people into the seminar, then the professional can do their work on them. They all operate like this.

Anyway, its a painful chore, to go through even a part of the stuff being posted by Kassy.
It the real world, the SALE would have been BLOCKED in only a few minutes. But for the sake of public education, its important to have a look what she/he has written here.
One can have real empathy for people who have gotten lured into the BKI system, as many of them have said it can be a nightmare getting out, because the BKI people are so manipulative, so dishonest, and quite clever. They are experts of messing around with people's minds.
Once people get locked into the BKI system, its not easy to get out, when you have these maniacs screwing with every thought in your head. That is tough stuff.

Of course, it does not work on everyone, but they are trying to put some of that material into these threads, as they know so MANY people are reading the threads. They are trying to innoculate the facts in the thread, with more confusion.
But again, that tactic will backfire on them, due to the dishonesty.
Because most of the "arguments" put here by "Kassy" are the same ones you are going to hear from the BKI people who are dealing with the public.
So when the BKI people are trying to screw with your mind, one can refer back to the comments by Kassy and others, and see the similarities. Its their form of Talking Points to mess with people's minds.

One can also observe how Kassy constantly contradicts himself, which again, is programmed confusion, which he will then deny.

There are more clues in a recent post by Kassy as well, which does actually reveal who this person most likely is.
But what Kassy has posted is just a small taste, of what Byron Katie followers get, when they are asking questions about the dozens of PERSUASION TECHNIQUES being use by Byron Katie on them.
For someone without training, it can be very painful and confusing.

But the solution is very simple, but not easy

1) No more money; to Byron Katie or BKI. No more seminars, gifts, books, anything.
2) No more contact; with the facilitators, coaches, or anyone with BKI. No more phone calls, emails, nothing. They are too skilled at messing with people's minds.
3) stop using her material. Just get rid of all of it.

IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever []

That is really the only way to get out, as if one goes to the BKI people with questions, you will get the same mind-screwing, and much more, that is being seen here.
So the good news, is the stuff that is being injected into this thread to try and use their Byron Katie Confusion Tactics, has actually backfired again.
They are trying to reach out to all the Byron Katie followers who are reading these comments being made by many people, as well as the other threads and forums.

That is the problem with deception and manipulation, is a house of cards.
And once the seed of doubt is planted, by showing the FACTS of how the persuasion works, the trickery and persuasion tactics never work as well again. They can be blocked permanently.

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